Metagame SM NU Speculation Thread [Read Post #109!]

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Hilomilo

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It's honestly a little surprising to me that no one has brought this thing up yet. With a great attack stat, fair coverage and decent mixed bulk, Tsareena has a lot of potential as a user of Z-Safeguard or Z-Splash. I've been experimenting with it quite a bit, and it seems like it could do really well here come SuMo NU.

Tsareena @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty/Sweet Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Safeguard/Splash
- Trop Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough/Return/Synthesis/Rapid Spin/U-turn

I've been playing a few different friends in NU-based games, and so far this thing's put in a lot of work for my team. I've been switching between Z-Safeguard and Z-Splash and have really enjoyed both, though the speed boost and status protection that Safeguard provides you with is more valuable and really patches up Tsareena's speed problem (I use Splash when I'm looking to wall break). Trop Kick is decent STAB that gets good damage off on resists, while high jump kick breaks through steel types. That last moveslot is a hard one, since reliance on that Z Move loses good coverage, though I usually decide between Play Rough (good coverage for dragons), Rapid Spin (if my team is weak to hazards), and U-turn so I can pivot out of situations like Haunter and Vivillon and gain momentum. Seriously hope this thing makes as much of a positive impact on the tier as I hope it will!
 
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Vikavolt @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball / Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Roost

Everyone has been feasting upon Vikavolt as a linear mon, being a powerful Special attacker with a lowkey awesome movepool combined with Agility or simply specs. But its bulk is somehow overlooked by the way it's seen as a solid special attacker.

This physically defensive set lets Vikavolt check the ever dominating fighting types in the tier, still blowing back with strong yet uninvested Tbolts/Vs, handling them with ease. Levitate also lets Vikavolt be an awesome ground immunity, paired with Energy Ball to destroy the said ground types and hit certain foes that Bug Buzz and the Electric STAB can't cover (Steelix,Palossand,etc.). VS also helps maintain precious momentum, and finally, Roost keeps Vikavolt healthy and able to pivot very much better

Fighting Types
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 94-110 (26.2 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Hariyama Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 85-101 (23.7 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Primeape Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vikavolt: 146-172 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vikavolt
0 SpA Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Passimian: 202-238 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Vikavolt Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonchan: 124-147 (51.2 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Vikavolt Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 304-360 (73.6 - 87.1%)

0 SpA Vikavolt Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Gastrodon: 416-492 (97.6 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO


Vikavolt's presence in S/M NU ( if it would be here ) would be really felt, as its contribution to the firepower to the meta and its defensive attributes might affect the way the meta goes.
 

erisia

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Oricorio-Sensu @ Salac Berry
Ability: Dancer
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Hurricane
- Revelation Dance

This is a little bit of theorymon but we were talking about Oricorio in chat again and I think this mon could be really deadly in the right circumstances. I did a quick check and the only Pokemon that has any chance of being legal while resisting both of Oricorio-Sensu's STAB attacks is... Pawniard. Meanwhile, unlike Drifblim (which is already a decent cleaner in ORAS), Oricorio doesn't have to go mixed and has much stronger special STAB attacks in Hurricane and Revelation Dance that let it capitalise on its STAB combo more effectively. Combined with a Speed tier that outpaces Rotom, Lilligant, and Vivillon (you can even switch into Quiver Dances if you're brave), this makes for one interesting Pokemon in my opinion. Substitute up on something that can't threaten you like something locked into Close Combat, Earthquake, or a Normal-type move and maybe get some boosts before you get down to Salac range, and then clean. The main issue is that Oricorio lacks wallbreaking power without an item, but at +1 it still has enough power to OHKO things like Samurott and Kabutops. If you can get to +2 then things start to look a bit more promising on the power side.


Silvally-Poison @ Poison Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Parting Shot / Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Also started using this set. Silvally is actually really bulky and this set makes the most of that while being a good standard Poison-type that can come in and absorb T-spikes without being too vulnerable to things in general. Generally it just switches into things and uses Parting Shot to bring a teammate in safely or Multi-Attack to deal with Fairy- and Grass-types, with Rest and Sleep Talk also making it decent status fodder. Roar lets you counter Gurdurr and makes Silvally a decent response to physical setup mons in general, at the expense of pivoting potential; it synergises pretty well with Spikes and Stealth Rock from Omastar though.
 
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alright so i've had a lot of interest in a-ninetales and was talking in NU chat a lot about it, so here is a set that i came up with after talking to the NU chatroom about it.


A-Ninetales @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Encore/Hidden Power Ground/Freeze Dry
- Blizzard/Ice Beam
- Moonblast

unlike its fire type counterpart, a-tales looks to set up aurora veil and be more of a offensive support for its team rather than be a sweeper. aurora veil is essentially a dual screen move that can only be used in hail, and with snow warning it lets it set it up for free. it runs blizzard as a high dmg stab that hits 100% in hail or ice beam for a higher PP move, and moonblast as a secondary stab. its last move can be a mixture of any of the three based off the team that you're facing; hp ground hits one metal snake and one optimus prime (steelix and aggron if you didn't get the joke), encore can be used for more utility and support, and freeze dry can be used to hit lanturn.

here a bunch damage calcs i did for some of the mons in the tier (more of the popular ones with a few other thrown in, according to the usage list right here), and uses sets from smogondex

Poliwrath
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Moonblast vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 248-294 (71.8 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Freeze-Dry vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 186-218 (53.9 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Poliwrath Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Alolan Ninetales: 144-169 (50.1 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Poliwrath Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Alolan Ninetales through Light Screen: 72-84 (25 - 29.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Xatu
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 354-416 (105.9 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Steelix
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Hidden Power Ground vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 114-136 (32.3 - 38.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage

136+ Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alolan Ninetales: 736-868 (256.4 - 302.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Aggron
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 240 SpD Aggron: 208-248 (60.6 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

0 Atk Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alolan Ninetales: 712-840 (248 - 292.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hitmonchan
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonchan: 210-248 (86.7 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Moonblast vs. 208 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Hitmonchan: 140-168 (47.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after
hail damage

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alolan Ninetales: 230-270 (80.1 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alolan Ninetales through Reflect: 152-178 (52.9 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alolan Ninetales: 307-361 (106.9 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alolan Ninetales through Reflect: 202-238 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lanturn
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 120-144 (30.6 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage
252 SpA Alolan Ninetales Freeze-Dry vs. 40 HP / 208 SpD Lanturn: 164-194 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
 
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poh

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Silvally @ Choice Specs
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Surf
- Flamethrower / Shadow Ball
- Parting Shot

Speaking of Silvally, I'm having a lot of fun with this Specs set. Its STAB isn't all that great but its coverage is pretty decent. Surf 2HKOs Rock types and Flamethrower lets you deal with Ferro, Klinklang, Mawile and the uncommon Roselia. Shadow Ball to hit Ghosts and mainly Frillish as it completely walls Silvally that lacks it. Parting Shot is a really nice move to pivot around and gives your teammates a much better match-up versus your opponent. A good partner for this set could be Alolan Muk. Muk traps ghosts and can weaken specially defensive mons thus freeing the way for Silvally. Might write more later on about other mons.
 
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Ares

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To clear something up that I've seen some confusion on is that Aurora Veil needs to be set in hail but it will continue to be in effect outside of hail. Meaning that outside of a hail team light clay is the better hold item.

I personally have been running a hail team over the past couple of weeks and have found that in that case ninetales was more effective as a bulky fast setter. I also used icy rock and used aurora veil as more of a free switch into my sweeper so it will take little to no damage.

That being said I forsee ninetales being at the very least RU because having an autoset hail with a 1 turn dual screen is going to be to good to pass up on.

Here is a list of mons that get Aurora Veil: Articuno, Cryogonal, Delibird, Froslass, Glaceon, Jynx, Mew, Ninetales-Alola, Regice, Sandshrew-Alola, Sandslash-Alola, Smeargle, Smoochum, Vulpix-Alola (only one to get autohail and aurora veil aside from ninetales)

I could see hail stall possibly being a thing in the future with either a autosetter and something like bulky cryogonal setting up aurora veil. The only pokemon to both autoset hail and get hail aside from ninetales is vulpix-alola. vulpix will probably be to weak to tank anything so it most likely wont get use (maybe in PU).
 
To clear something up that I've seen some confusion on is that Aurora Veil needs to be set in hail but it will continue to be in effect outside of hail. Meaning that outside of a hail team light clay is the better hold item.

I personally have been running a hail team over the past couple of weeks and have found that in that case ninetales was more effective as a bulky fast setter. I also used icy rock and used aurora veil as more of a free switch into my sweeper so it will take little to no damage.

That being said I forsee ninetales being at the very least RU because having an autoset hail with a 1 turn dual screen is going to be to good to pass up on.

Here is a list of mons that get Aurora Veil: Articuno, Cryogonal, Delibird, Froslass, Glaceon, Jynx, Mew, Ninetales-Alola, Regice, Sandshrew-Alola, Sandslash-Alola, Smeargle, Smoochum, Vulpix-Alola (only one to get autohail and aurora veil aside from ninetales)

I could see hail stall possibly being a thing in the future with either a autosetter and something like bulky cryogonal setting up aurora veil. The only pokemon to both autoset hail and get hail aside from ninetales is vulpix-alola. vulpix will probably be to weak to tank anything so it most likely wont get use (maybe in PU).
glaceon new meta?

a-pix could easily be PU, but 65 speed isn't anything special. like you said, dual screens plus hail seems too good to pass up though. only time will tell i guess.

atleast we got gigalith to (hopefully, i don't have the suspect list on my phone) have fun with now
 

Charizard @ Normalium Z
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe or bulky variants if roost
Modest/Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Fire Blast
- Celebrate
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Roost
- Air Slash

(◕‿◕✿)this is something i started using quite a lot, at +1 defenses you roost vs pretty much the entire tier. specs zard is strong, scarf zard is useful, fat zard checks a bunch of stuff, and if you get this dude an opportunity to set up it terrifyingly does everything at once. it's a bit hard to fit on a team if you don't have roost as a result of its stealth rock weakness, but i'm sure you dudes can work it out.(◕‿◕✿)

(◕‿◕✿)i should be making a post on crabominable later because i think it's pretty underrated.(◕‿◕✿)

(◕‿◕✿)19/50 (◕‿◕✿)

erisia edit: my eyes!

ttftw edit: sorry fans
 
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quziel

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So, theorycrafted this a teensy bit, but Fightinium-Z Magmortar just runs through pretty much everything in the tier barring like Hariyama, Grumpig, and Sliggoo with a boosted Focus Blast. It can OHKO all but the most specially defensive regirocks, and even then, it has a large chance after rocks, and with just a couple percent damage, it gets Rhydon fairly easily too. In terms of a niche over Solar Beam, it also laughs at Miltank, and the move itself has no drawbacks besides horrific accuracy after use.

Magmortar @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Earthquake
- Focus Blast
252+ SpA Magmortar All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock: 318-376 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magmortar All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 374-442 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magmortar All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Magmortar All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 159-188 (37 - 43.8%)
252+ SpA Magmortar All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ SpD Eviolite Sliggoo: 112-132 (32.9 - 38.8%)
252+ SpA Magmortar All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Carracosta: 208-246 (59 - 69.8%)

As y'all can see, it breaks pretty much every rock type in the tier, and even against normal resists, it can still wear them down at an incredible rate. Its worth noting that pokemon such as Raichu can abuse the same strategy to similar effect, and break past a lot of would be counters fairly easily. Combusken is the final major beneficiary, as it can bluff an eviolite very easily, and the increased accuracy and power lets it do dumb things like have a (very small) chance to 2HKO pivot lanturn with rocks.
252 SpA Combusken All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 40 HP / 208+ SpD Lanturn: 208-246 (51.8 - 61.3%)
252 SpA Combusken Focus Blast vs. 40 HP / 208+ SpD Lanturn: 132-156 (32.9 - 38.9%)
252 SpA Combusken All Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gastrodon: 274-324 (64.3 - 76%)
252 SpA Combusken Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gastrodon: 174-205 (40.8 - 48.1%)

This is more of a gimmicky set, but Sawsbuck makes a fun abuser of Grassium-Z with Grass-Whistle providing a cool +1 speed boost, and Horn leech appreciating the boost to 140 BP. Granted, this doesn't necessarily help it with breaking past poisons, but sleeping them, and then just double edging can easily wear them down.

Sawsbuck @ Grassium Z
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grass Whistle
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Double-Edge

In terms of more viable users of this strategy, Victreebel can be incredibly hard to stop if its +2/+1 thanks to sleep powder/swords dance, and Mr. Mime can pull off a shittier jynx with hypnosis/nasty plot.
 

cyanize

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yeah this stuff's wild lol, it just straight up wins a lot of games


So that this post isn't a completely useless one-liner, I'll post a few sets that I've been liking quite a bit.


Comfey @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage / Natural Cure
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Def / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss / Dazzling Gleam

Subseed Comfey is actually really nice, as its good bulk and defensive typing in mono-Fairy allows it to Sub up on a lot of things, fast Taunt and Sub keep it from being statused with Taunt also preventing it from being setup bait of any kind. Triage Draining Kiss gives it a crazy high priority move that recovers that allows it to pick off very weakened opponents before they can break its sub, at the cost of strength, whereas DGleam gives it a bit more presence but loses out on the +3 priority, and allows for the use of Natural Cure since Leech Seed isn't boosted by Triage. 100 Speed EVs outpaces max neutral base 80s (though you could probably use less to only outspeed Hitmonchan) and the rest is put in Def and HP because it's SDef is already quite nice. Comfey just sort of acts as a fast and bulky pivot and auxiliary hazard control since Taunt often catches hazard setters off guard. This set has to watch out for Xatu since it is one of the few Leech Seed mons that can actually have its seeds successfully bounce back, and it's a bit weak to Steels and Poisons due to it being rather passive with it's main source of damage usually coming from Leech Seed, but overall it's a neat set that you guys should try out :]

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Comfey: 103-121 (32 - 37.6%)

4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 153-183 (47.6 - 57%) (Knock Off does like nothing)

252+ Atk Passimian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Comfey: 96-113 (29.9 - 35.2%)

252+ SpA (Scarf) Mesprit Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 129-153 (40.1 - 47.6%)

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 126-148 (39.2 - 46.1%)

+2 8 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Comfey: 178-211 (55.4 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Leech Seed makes this not 2hko, not bad)

252+ Atk Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Comfey: 142-168 (44.2 - 52.3%)

252 Atk Miracle Seed Tsareena Trop Kick vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Comfey: 109-130 (33.9 - 40.4%)



Komala @ Life Orb
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin / Swords Dance / Shadow Claw
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Return

The AV Komala set posted earlier in the thread is well and all, but sometimes you just want your cute sleeping spinner to blow things up... and that's exactly what a LO does for our friend Komala here. This is moreso to have a reason to post some wild calcs about LO Komala, but also of note is an SD set that tears holes through bulky balance and stalls lacking Gourgeist. It's also nice to break holes for a normal spam core or for threatening partners that really enjoy bulky Rocks and Steels and other physically bulky mons weakened like Ribombee, Charizard, Gurdurr, Muk-A, Golem-A, Shiftry, Scyther, and Archeops.

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 156-185 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 164-195 (39.6 - 47.1%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Eviolite (the good spread) Rhydon: 143-169 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- also known as one time switch in

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 149-177 (44.6 - 52.9%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 175-207 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Torterra: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mesprit: 153-183 (42 - 50.2%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Return vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 153-183 (40.9 - 48.9%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 250-294 (82.2 - 96.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - don't click Volt Switch

SD is also pretty damn hard to revenge - after minor chip, many fast attackers fall prey to +2 Sucker.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 208-246 (71.4 - 84.5%) -- about 45% to OHKO after two rounds of SR

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pyroar: 260-307 (83 - 98%) -- practically dead after LO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott: 227-269 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- about 40% chance to OHKO after 2 rounds of SR

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Archeops: 316-372 (108.5 - 127.8%) -- rip

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Komala Sucker Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 277-326 (90.2 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

As you can quite plainly see, Komala is an incredible threat capable of 2hkoing most of the tier with just a bit of hazard support - one spike is often all it needs to nab a 2hko. And before you ask what this may have over other strong normals - don't forget it still is a spinner, at its core. (Not to mention Tauros will never be able to do 90 to Steelix and Rhydon with Earthquake like SD can unless you bp it boosts, but bp is busted anyways lol)
 

Abejas

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So after playing a lot with this mon and hoping it will be nu, I can see its almost a perfect glue on every team. You need a wincon? Cromuk is a great option and imo busted. You need a special sponge? Assault Vest muk does a great job due to it's great hp stat and special defense. You're anoyed by all these pesky ghost and psychic types in nu? Lum muk is also a great option. You need a strong physical attacker and want power? CB muk is a great option (I really dont like this set due to it being walled by steelix but its still pretty good). And finally not to mention It has such a great ability being poison touch which makes the opponent risk losing their item and also having a 30% chance to poison the mon, which makes it pretty hard to switch in into this mon.
More in detail sets:
Cromuk:


Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
- Knock Off

This is probably one of favourite sets at this moment. Curse Rest SleepTalk Muk, or better known as CroMuk is probably one of the scariest mons right now, It can set up almost half the tier (some examples are mesprit, xatu's, vileplume, special silvally's, etc.) and it can also just knock off items from its counters and have a chance of poison them. Its a great late game cleaner and a great wincon, the best counters I saw to it at the moment are SD rhydons and taunt/roar steelix and weezing, but all of them hate having their item knocked off. The spread I use is to always survive 2 eq's from rhydon at +2 and the rest is dumped on special defense.

Rhydon Calc:
16+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. +2 248 HP / 56 Def Muk: 180-212 (43.5 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Mons CroMuk sets up on:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mesprit Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Muk: 104-123 (25.1 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Muk: 39-47 (9.4 - 11.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Muk: 33-39 (7.9 - 9.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ SpA Choice Specs Silvally Tri Attack vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Muk: 130-154 (31.4 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery


Assault Vest Muk:


Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 SpA
Brave Nature
- Focus Blast
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Pursuit

I've been also playing a lot with this set and let me say, Its a great trapper and special sponge. It can take so many special hits its not even funny. Some examples are that it can take just 40% from a exeggutor's draco meteor, and can just trap it or decide to go for the brainless knock off and have a chance to poison or just kill it with gunk shot. It also takes 20% from a alolan's ninetales blizzard, not to mention it can trap every single psychic type in the tier and other strong special attackers like magmortar (tho eq does a lot of damage) and the oricorio family. With 56 special attack you have a good chance of 2hko'ing steelix with focus blast with a spike up asuming you hit both. Another option that can be used is use poison jab over focus blast and run a adamant nature.

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot

252+ SpA Exeggutor-Alola Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 144-169 (35.9 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 84-99 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mesprit Ice Beam vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 88-104 (21.9 - 25.9%) -- 2.6% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 121-144 (30.1 - 35.9%) -- 40.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Oricorio-Ghost Hurricane vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 102-121 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (All the oricorio's have the same stats iirc)
56 SpA Muk Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 158-186 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery


Choice Banded Muk:


Muk-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Brick Break/Poison Jab

To be honest I have not played a lot with this set but it looks a lot of fun to use. Nothing likes coming in on a CB knock off and also having to risk a poison, with a base 105 attack. Not to mention we have almost no good poison switch in besides steelix since most of the poison resist take 50% or more from a cb gunk shot. The spread I use is enough speed to outspeed base 60 speed mons without any invesment. Not much more to say about this set tbh, but I'll show some quick calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 121-144 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- 55.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Brick Break vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 126-150 (35.7 - 42.6%) -- 93.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 154-183 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Skuntank: 192-227 (55.3 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 127-151 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- 56.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 222-262 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Muk Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 114-136 (31.3 - 37.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


To resume all this, if alolan muk ever drops to nu (thing I really doubt), its going to be a great glue mon in almost every team and will be very hard to play against due to the combination of great stab's + strong knock off's + Poison Touch.
 

Threw

cohiba
Muk-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast / Brick Break / Taunt / Pursuit

This is the most slept on and dangerous set in my experience, it wins so many games entirely on its own after a reasonable amount of damage on rocks/lix, and it's fat enough to RP on damn near anything in a pinch. Outspeeds the metagame and all that nonsense.

Frankly, this speculative tier is a joke as long as this thing is allowed. There's no way in hell it'll ever touch NU and even if it did it wouldn't be around for more than a week. Please remove it from the rest of the tour, thanks
 
so, like, i was bored so i decided to try some new mons or whatever.
these sets are probably not that good but i find them fun.


noora (Tsareena) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sweet Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough
- Trop Kick
- U-turn

i think that tsareena is quite cool. as mentioned before, it has a good attack, fair coverage and defenses. ive seen that someone suggested a z-move set that i havent tried but i did use a choice scarf set that i found fun. u-turn brings momentum, trop kick is a fine stab, while play rough and hjk are good coverage options.


eva (Raichu-Alola) @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch

truly honestly this sounds cool. i love raichu-alola, it's pretty fast and strong at the same time. np + 2 stabs is hella powerful, and volt switch is always nice to keep momentum.


isak (Ninetales-Alola) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry

alolan forms are hella cool. ninetales' new double type is pretty fun, plus it's fast and fairly strong. i feel like you can use a lot of sets on this guy but i liked the idea of np + 3 atks. expert belt can be changed to LO or something i guess, but i like it that way.
 
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It's honestly a little surprising to me that no one has brought this thing up yet. With a great attack stat, fair coverage and decent mixed bulk, Tsareena has a lot of potential as a user of Z-Safeguard or Z-Splash. I've been experimenting with it quite a bit, and it seems like it could do really well here come SuMo NU.

Tsareena @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty/Sweet Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Safeguard/Splash
- Trop Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough/Return/Synthesis/Rapid Spin/U-turn

I've been playing a few different friends in NU-based games, and so far this thing's put in a lot of work for my team. I've been switching between Z-Safeguard and Z-Splash and have really enjoyed both, though the speed boost and status protection that Safeguard provides you with is more valuable and really patches up Tsareena's speed problem (I use Splash when I'm looking to wall break). Trop Kick is decent STAB that gets good damage off on resists, while high jump kick breaks through steel types. That last moveslot is a hard one, since reliance on that Z Move loses good coverage, though I usually decide between Play Rough (good coverage for dragons), Rapid Spin (if my team is weak to hazards), and U-turn so I can pivot out of situations like Haunter and Vivillon and gain momentum. Seriously hope this thing makes as much of a positive impact on the tier as I hope it will!
I'd honestly just run Acrobatics in the last slot since it actually gets you around bulky bugs and will hit flying types for much more neutral damage than any other option once set up.

upload_2016-12-1_17-14-20.png

Turtonator feels really NU to me tbh. With no reliable recovery, abysmal speed, and kinda gimmicky moveset to me looks like it will end up in NU. That said, its definitely got a really cool typing and a lot of options to play around with which will make it a super fun pokemon if it does in fact drop. It doesnt have the highest offensive stats and with 60 HP its not nearly as bulky as people are letting it up to be (plus lets be real shell trap is really gimmicky), but with strong STABs and cool support options itll def be fun.

Turtonator @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin / HP Electric
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast

I can definitely see specs being its most prevelant set with Fire / Dragon being incredible STAB coverage and generally forcing out the majority of non-bulky NU mons which could open spin opportunities, it could easily punch some pretty massive holes in a lot of common NU mons.

SS will also be really fun since at +2 its gonna hit 376 with a speed-boosting nature which is more than enough to potentially sweep, and IG if you wanna run a DTail + Shell Trap + Rapid Spin strange gimmicky bulky support set itd be possible but tbh pretty unviable. Overally a pretty fun very strong bulky special attacker for the tier to play around with.

Also potentially coming back for sumo we'll see tho
 

Liquidation (Araquanid) @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Sleep Talk
- Return


This thing looks like it'll be straight busted if it ever drops to NU. While its movepool is straight ass, its broken ability, its good typing, and amazing power all makes up for it. Who needs coverage when you can just 2HKO everything with Liquidation? Nearly nothing wants to switch into a Water Bubble boosted Liquidation plus Leech Life in combination with Choice Band. And while its moveset is pretty bad, it still has decent enough coverage to run CB, since with its good special defense, it can act as a sleep absorber and Return allows it to at least dent Water Absorbers. On Sticky Web vs offense, this just may be unstoppable, and overall can dent balance very well.


Liquidation (Araquanid) @ Leftovers / Mystic Water
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Substitute
- Toxic

SubToxic looks like a very good set as well, since the limited amount of things that can wall it do not appreciate Toxic at all, and usually can't break Araquanid's sub in one hit. For example, his set beats Altaria, Flying moveless Pelipper, Prinpulp, Poliwrath, Gastrodon, and Sliggoo, all of which can switch into CB and not be 2HKO'd.

Besides for these two sets, Araquanid could also run Z-Rain Dance for late game sweeping, since Z-Rain Dance both sets up rain and gives you +1 speed and you can afford to set it up because of its bulk, so essentially a Dragon Dance since you will most likely be just clicking Liquidation once rain is up at the cost of your item. You could also run mixed, something like Surf / Leech Life / Liquidation / Hidden Power (Fire) or (Grass) with Life Orb, Leftovers, or Mystic Water, though seems outclassed by CB.
 
Wanted to drop some fun sets that people might enjoy.
Glaceon @ Normalium Z
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power (Grass)
- Celebrate
So Z-Celebrate gives you +1 to all stats, which gives basically gives Glaceon specs, 376/377 speed (base 122 speed), and eviolite bulk without needing an evolution. This could be great for late game sweeping on hazard teams, it works decentlly on hail teams (especially with Ninetales-A), and thanks to it's decent bulk it can set up rather nicely on weaker foes (especially with Ninetales A's screens).

Charizard @ Firium Z
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash / Focus Blast
Z-Sunny Day brings in +1 speed, solar power, and free solar beams. With this, Charizard can outspeed the meta with specs power at the cost of some HP. Can be great for Hole Punching or Late Game Sweeping. This set obviously requires hazard support but, it's definitely worth it.

Gourgeist @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick-or-Treat
- Rock Slide
- Seed Bomb
- Phantom Force
Ah! Z-Trick or Treat for +1 Stats to every stat. Gourgeist has great bulk for this, and it gets even more bulk which is great. At 439 speed, it is comfortably outspeeding the meta (not including scarfers) and deals great amount damage.
 
A long time ago in a speculated tier far far away from being settled,
Muk-A has been a terribly terrifying Spd-wall who loves to lunch in all
Special attacks, and coincidently walls the race of the Decidueye.
Until one time, a brave Decidueye decided to try change their fate,

by luring all the dumbly thicc Muk-A into their near doom.
With the sacrifice of the brave Decidueye, they didn't notice that
his valiant act will free the SpAttackers from the gooey monster.....



Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Leaf Blade / Spirit Shackle
- Sucker Punch / Spirit Shackle / Synthesis

The above text explains it all thanks you.​







You still here to read???!!!1 Ok then.

Basically this mon is an outstanding Muk-A lure, as the "standard" set doesnt bring anything for it, looking like they'll just pursuit trap you. But No. With Decidueye's natural bulk and typing, it can set up SD on a number of mons, and it's reliable movepool takes care of the breaking. With bb added to its arsenal, it can now hit other grass types better ( and others weak to flying like fighting and bug ) and the aformentioned Muk-A. Going back to Muk-A who switches in with confidence, it doesn't know that it will get obliterated to gooey pieces after hit by BB in the face after just a minimal damage. This now lets your Special Attacker ,let's say something like a powerful Jariibombee/something else that synergizes well with Decidueye, is now more free at bombarding your opponents by their special attacks.

Positive natured maximum Atk EVs is to hit as hard as possible, 168 Spe to speed creep the speed creepers OF the speed creepers of max base 55's, and the 88 remaining EVs adds up to the HP to increase bulk.

Note: This Decidueye set is only used as a LURE for the prime of Muk-alola in the unsettled tier of NU. Spirit shackle is generally the better move, as it being stab equals BB's power, and trapping is always nice, BUT brave bird is still a cool niche option to hit fighting/grass/bug types better as an added bonus, like plume and more. Overall a cool mon if it lands in the "best tier ever" :S.

+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Muk: 317-374 (76.5 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ( You can go LO for the almost guaranteed KO (99% min damage. Leftovers is just for passive recovery and contributes to the longetivity of Decidueye.)

+2 252+ Atk Decidueye Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 402-474 (113.5 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

erisia

Innovative new design!
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Charizard @ Normalium Z
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe or bulky variants if roost
Modest/Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Fire Blast
- Celebrate
- Hidden Power [Grass]/Roost
- Air Slash

(◕‿◕✿)this is something i started using quite a lot, at +1 defenses you roost vs pretty much the entire tier. specs zard is strong, scarf zard is useful, fat zard checks a bunch of stuff, and if you get this dude an opportunity to set up it terrifyingly does everything at once. it's a bit hard to fit on a team if you don't have roost as a result of its stealth rock weakness, but i'm sure you dudes can work it out.(◕‿◕✿)

(◕‿◕✿)i should be making a post on crabominable later because i think it's pretty underrated.(◕‿◕✿)

(◕‿◕✿)19/50 (◕‿◕✿)

erisia edit: my eyes!

ttftw edit: sorry fans
Jokes and stuff aside, Z-Celebrate is bad because it's illegal with Blaze, whereas Z-Hold Hands is actually compatible with Blaze. Living a hit and firing off a +1 Blaze Fire Blast is cool af so unless you really don't like shiny zard (which Hold Hands is locked to) then it's the superior option. You can argue that people will predict Normalium-Z based on the shiny but people will quickly start running shiny to bluff this set so take that with a pinch of salt.


Charizard @ Normalium-Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Hold Hands
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Roost / HP Grass / Focus Blast
 
I'd like to talk a bit about Z status moves that restore health. These are important for various reasons. One of which is the intense need of many mons in NU to have recovery. We've seen in past theorymonning how recovery can be useful. This gen Mantine gained Roost and it is expected to fly away to higher tiers. Recovery is a big deal in NU. While GF might have not given recovery to all new mons, they did give at least some options in Z status moves that restore health. These include: Heal Bell, Refresh, Psych Up, Stockpile, Spite, Curse (if used by a Ghost type), Haze, Mist, and also Aromatherapy (but all mons with Aromatherapy already have recovery moves), Conversion2 (which only applies to Porygon), Transform (which only applies to Ditto and Mew and they will never use it) and Belly Drum (which has already been covered to some extent). So I'd like to talk a bit about remaining moves.

Z-Heal Bell is great for bulky mons that don't usually have any way to recover HP, like Ampharos
, Lanturn and Lapras. While yes, they do have to give up on Leftovers or whatever they usually run, this does give them a one time use of a recovery move that also happens to fully heal status off your team. It might be more interesting to run than RestTalk. Ampharos and Lanturn however don't really have any Normal type moves to use Normalium Z with (except Hyper Beam) in case it doesn't want/need to run Z-Heal Bell in that particular game, and will mostly prefer Leftovers for defensive sets. Lapras on the other hand has Hyper Voice, which is a bit niche. Other potential users include Lopunny
and Wigglytuff
. These two can opt to use the Normalium Z instead for Return/Hyper Voice respectively, or, in Lopunny's case, Z-Splash.

Z-Refresh works in a similar way, tho when we look at the regular distribution we don't see anything that's particularly useful that might get it that doesn't already have a recovery move or Heal Bell... Until we notice Furfrou
. Furfrou can put Z-Refresh to some good use since it allows it to gain a one time recovery with status cure, but since it's carrying a Normalium Z you can opt to use a one time 160 BP Breakneck Blitz, or even a Swords Dance off of Work Up. Furfrou can put this strategy to great use because it usually has Normal type moves which can make it more unpredictable and interesting.

I'm not going to list the Pokemon that learn Z-Psych Up because that move has a LONG list. Most Normal types that do learn it (but not any other recovery move since otherwise it's more worth it to just run any other item) are too frail to put Z-Psych Up's interesting effect to good use while still being able to fire off STAB Breakneck Blitzes if needed (this list includes Persian, Stantler, Girafarig, Spinda, Delcatty, Purugly, Watchog and Oranguru). There are, however, some other non-Normal type that do much appreciate the recovery and can pull off high powered Breakneck Blitzes if needed, like Dusknoir, however Psych Up's niche effect will probably mean it won't be used much.

Z-Stockpile is interesting in theory because it restores health AND gives you a boost to both defenses. There are a lot of Pokemon that learn this move and I won't cover them all. Komala
and Munchlax
stood out to me, I can see them running this strategy occasionally, with Return to cover that Normalium-Z use if needed (Komala however might prefer Wish imo). Wigglytuff and Lanturn are other possible users of this move since they very much enjoy the recovery, and the extra defense boost can be helpful, though Wigglytuff might prefer Z-Heal Bell imo. Alolan Raticate also gets it, but I don't see that being important in NU.

Z-Spite stood out to me because of the potential of using Ghostinium Z with other Ghost moves. However, after seeing that move's distribution, I can only see some very niche sets from Mismagius/Misdreavus and maybe Weezing and Ninetales. The move itself is basically worthless in NU apart for some niche PP stalling sets (which I don't know why you would run). It's a shame Dusknoir doesn't learn Spite, though, as Pressure meant it could actually put that move to good use. However...

Z-Curse, when used by non-Ghost types, adds another +1 to Attack besides the regular effect. However when used by a Ghost type, Z-Curse restores HP, much like Belly Drum. Dusknoir
, Golurk
, occasionally Mismagius
and, in case they drop, Spiritomb
and Cofagrigus
will very much appreciate this one time move, being bulky Ghosts who have been cursed with no recovery, that is until now. Dusknoir and Golurk in particular love to fire off that one Never-Ending Nightmare from Shadow Punch while very much appreciating the recovery. I think these are probably the Pokemon that will most benefit from Z recovery status moves this gen.

Z-Haze is another move that has some potential because of the combination of (vanilla) Haze's usefulness, Ice typing, and distribution. Aurorus
, Omastar
and, in case it drops, Blastoise
can all run this move and appreciate Icium Z's potential with their Ice moves (Ice Beam mostly). Dusknoir can also use Icium Z with Haze and Ice Punch if it wants to, but I believe it will usually prefer Ghostium Z with Curse.

Z-Mist works a lot like Z-Haze, except Mist obviously isn't as useful. Still, I can see it being used somewhat rarely by Piloswine
, Abomasnow
, Vanilluxe
, Lapras
, Lanturn
and Wishiwashi
. Lapras and Lanturn in particular will prefer Icium Z over Normalium Z (for Heal Bell) since it gives them the option to run a one time powerful Ice move from Ice Beam over a powerful Normal move in Hyper Voice (in the case of Lapras) or Hyper Beam. Wishiwashi can now be used more than once in case it's HP drops to less than 25%, and still has the option to run a powerful Ice move as well if it happens to not want to use Z-Mist. Piloswine obviously appreciates the recovery as well.

Overall, I think Z status moves are the most unpredictable mechanic introduced this generation, but Z recovery moves in particular will have their uses, most notably with Z-Curse Dusknoir and Golurk, Z-Refresh Furfrou, and perhaps others I just listed. We'll have to wait and see.
 
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didn't realize pallosand got recovery. makes it a really strong tauros check. best thing it can do to you is surf and i'm sure you can ev it to live two of those if it doesn't already. iron tail might even just do more tbh, haven't run calcs.

agree with the general assessment of tsareena in this thread but i think a bulky spin set is best. you really want your grasses to be able to take on waters and rhydon and shit, and tsareena can do that really easily. plus trop kick is insane on a fast defensive mon, and it makes it a more reliable spinner. oricoriociro-ghost hurts its ability to spin a lot, but you can't do a lot to it regardless of the set.

comfey looks like a solid defensive mon, but we'll probably get aromatisse since it was pretty low-tier ru last gen anyways. pretty sure comfey gets baton pass tho, which probably makes it outright better because it can pivot and its recovery only takes one turn. wish is better suited for stall, so aromatisse will prolly fit in well there, esp if we don't get mega audino at any point.

alola mons seem mediocre. i doubt we'll get ninetales or exeggutor, which pretty much just leaves muk, raichu, and golem i think? might be missing something, but these guys haven't been spectacular. like all three seem like decent options on certain builds, but they all have serious issues. adding psychic-type to raichu only really helps it with grass/poisons (vileplume, roselia) and opposing electrics. new muk completely outshines old muk, but it has the same issues i've always had with skuntank which is that it's supremely easy to take advantage of with stuff like rhydon and steelix. pursuit is busted as ever so it's still fine tho. golem could be cool, but it'll take time to figure that out. i think for the most part old golem still fits better in our particular meta.

oh alola persian looks super cool, but i haven't gotten the chance to play with it yet. i think scarf parting shot/switcheroo/foul play/filler (toxic prolly) is the best. it's stupid fast, so you can get off a really fast parting shot or revenge opposing fast stuff with foul play. tricking a scarf is rarely bad, especially because you aren't going to want to switch anything offensive into it because then you give up serious momentum due to the parting shot drops. generally don't want to switch breakers or setup mons into a tricked scarf anyways, so yea i think it'll be a good mon.

looking forward to playing other lower tiers while we wait for nu. the lower we go, the more we get to play with stuff that we'll get and the better idea we'll have of what nu will look like.
 

poh

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Persian-Alola @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
- Taunt
- Toxic

So this is arguably its best set and I've been using it from time to time and I feel it has the same level of annoyance as Vileplume tbh. It can Taunt leads and pivot around with Parting Shot, Foul Play allows it to hit decently hard and with Fur Coat it can live hits of mons at +2 Atk and do some decent damage back with Foul Play. Z-Parting Shot is also an amazing move to give a partner a second opportunity to sweep which is pretty cool. Toxic is just filler ofc. It can also take neutral physical hits stupidly well thanks to Fur Coat (see calcs below).

+2 252 Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 247-292 (73.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 8 Atk Charizard Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 235-277 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Bruxish Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 222-263 (66.4 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 235-278 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 244-288 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Lucario-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 280-332 (83.8 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Oo


Edit: Trying different things


Gumshoos @ Life Orb
Ability: Stakeout
Happiness: 0
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Yawn

Trying different sets again and this actually worked a few times despite looking like a gimmick (and it probably is lol). Purpose of the set is to force switches with Yawn so you can hit stuff hard with Stakeout boosted moves, potentially throwing out Frustrations with 204 base power. Yawn has also a setup-deterring function to avoid sweeps from your opponent. Mainly using this set to soften up checks early game. EVs are spreaded to outspeed invested base 50s.



Sandslash-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Iron Head
- Metal Burst / Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

Ice-Steel typing isn't all that bad defensively as it offers you a solid 8 resistances and 1 immunity so I decided to go with AV. Saw Metal Burst scrolling down its movepool and decided to run it as it can get you some decent surprise damage.It might form a decent defensive core with physically defensive Altaria as they cancel eachothers weaknesses.

Might add relevant calcs

casual game vs Jarii in which both mons put in some work
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-494321856



Regigigas @ Normalium Z
Ability: Slow Start
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Knock Off
- Substitute
- Psych Up

coming soon

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-495021100
 
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erisia

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Literal Asshole @ Mental Herb
Ability: Unaware / Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Curse
- Toxic / Substitute
- Recover
- Baton Pass

This thing is disgusting in a lot of different ways. You can set up on most special attackers and a lot of physical attackers and either just stall them out with Toxic + Recover or Baton Pass to a recipient. Substitute makes Pyukumuku setup bait but it lets you play around Toxic mons a bit and works well with Aurora Veil / Toxic Spikes support. Calm Mind / Moonlight / Heal Bell / Stored Power Musharna is particularly disgusting because everyone thinks Toxic is a good enough check to these two but other good candidates include White Herb Drifblim (similar to White Herb Sceptile in ORAS) and Muk-Alola (before it gets removed anyways). The funny thing about the Musharna + Pyukumuku core is that you can even do it in reverse with Musharna passing Calm Minds or Amnesias to Substitute / Curse / Toxic / Recover Unaware Pyukumuku. Mental Herb is the item of choice since Taunt users now basically give you a free Baton Pass; you can use Leftovers if you're ballsy though, and Normalium-Z lets you Baton Pass without the Speed debuffs to something like Tauros. Lum Berry lets you evade status but it's not particularly relevant since you'll be passing out before you die to Toxic anyways. Unaware is usually best so that Pyukumuku isn't as big a setup bait, but Innards Out is a nice contingency if they manage to crit you from high health or something. SpD EVs work well with Curse but you can run Def EVs instead if you want to troll physical attackers harder. For optimum trolling, lead with Ninetales-Alola with that Light Clay set and Pyukumuku just never dies (you can Sub on Rotom's Volt Switch ffs).

252+ SpA Magmortar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pyukumuku: 126-150 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Pyukumuku: 110-133 (35 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Pyukumuku also has lots of other good sets it can run such as Z-Memento, Custap Berry + Pain Split + Innards Out, and that goddamn Soak + Toxic + Protect set. Z-Purify also lets you pass +1 Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe to like Scyther so you completely break the game until we ban Baton Pass. (puke)
 
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erisia

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Double post to say that we're also going to be removing Bruxish, Charizard, Muk-Alola, and Ribombee from this imaginary meta, as to quote Disjunction, these mons are either absolutely never going to drop / stay NU for long, are disgusting to play against / build against, or some combination of these two factors. We're not going to ban anything else any time soon since this is supposed to be an experimental and fun tier while we wait for the real drops (which by the looks of it is going to be half of RU at this rate...). Although, if things rise up to UU / RU when the official stats come out, I'm sure they'll be removed from here.

Have fun!
 
Sticky web might also be better this generation due to the preponderance of slower pokemon Also, swellow leaving (RU will snap it up due to the SpA boost) will increase the viability of sticky web (swellow is one of the fastest NU pokemon immune to the slowing effect of sticky web.

Do you think trick room will work this gen? Has trick room ever worked in NU?
 
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erisia

Innovative new design!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
+
Lopunny @ Leftovers
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Cosmic Power
- Encore
- Baton Pass

Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 Spe
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Rest
- Shadow Claw / Sleep Talk

So unless you have a Haze or Roar user, you can't give this pair any opportunity to set up. Type: Null is super bulky, and combined with Cosmic Power boosts, Battle Armor to block crits, and a potential Substitute from Lopunny, it's literally impossible to outright KO without STAB Fighting-type attacks. If you have enough boosts, you don't even need to run Sleep Talk since there's no real chance of being KOed while you're asleep, and this lets Type: Null afford to run Shadow Claw so it can beat Ghost-types, but Sleep Talk lets it be more useful without boosts. Encore gives Lopunny a lot of setup opportunites and can force switches that let it get a free Substitute if it predicts correctly. The Speed EVs on Type Null are enough to outspeed standard "fast" Weezing so you can hit it before it burns you or Rest before it Taunts you. Here's some calcs:

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Drain Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 136+ Def Eviolite Type: Null: 101-120 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Poliwrath Focus Blast vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 102-120 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Because these moves can never crit and you're always slow, you can PP stall these moves completely. The best counterplay against this pair is a decent Taunt user, preferably one that outspeeds Lopunny such as Pyroar, Archeops, or Persian-Alola.

EDIT: Thanks to Jarii, phys def Type: Null is better for obvious reasons in hindsight.
 
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