Battle Spot Singles Team

[imBLIND]

I have a team that is mostly finished, and I just need some suggestions as to how to improve it and how to address some of the problems I'm facing. It's hovering around 1550, which is pretty decent considering my other experimental teams on rated BSS this season were a combined 1-10.

I would consider this team I'm using right now a balanced team with the idea of eliminating/crippling a key pokemon in the opponent's roster, and then setting up one of my win conditions...most of my win conditions involve a combination of 2 pokemon, so once I narrow the field to 2v2 or 2v3 with a burnt/paralyzed pokemon, I can usually take the win from there.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Thunder wave
-Stealth Rock
-Leech seed
-Gyro Ball/Knock off?

I decided to use Ferrothorn as the first part of the Dragon/Steel/Fairy core. Stealth rocks is amazing since I run into a lot of problems with Focus Sash users. T-wave and leech seed/leftovers are pretty self-explanatory I hope. I'm leaning towards the utility of Knock Off for the last move slot, as I'm pretty dissatisfied with Power Whip's damage output and overall coverage, especailly with no second attacking move. Gyro Ball doesn't make sense with T-wave to me, but it has a much better damage output than both Knock Off and Power Whip. I'm currently running Gyro Ball, but I've used all 3 aforementioned moves.

Sylveon @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Pixelate
Nature: Bold
252 Hp / 210 Def / 54 SpA
-Hyper Voice
-Calm Mind
-Rest
-Snore

Part two of the main core. If I can cripple or remove their physical attackers, I can Calm Mind/Rest/Snore my way to victory. Seeing as those 3 moves are the win condition, I am really tempted to replace Hyper Voice with a different move such as HP Fire, HP Ground, or Shadow Ball for coverage. However, I would have to be asleep in order to use Snore, and that removes a lot of my flexibility and KO opportunities.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Hp
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Extremespeed
-Fire punch

Part three of the main core. I honestly have no clue how this guy isn't more popular....DD dragonite lead with Lum berry takes out almost everything that is not Steel, Fairy, or has a Focus Sash. He is also awesome at being the final sweeper once all the steel and fairy pokemon are gone. However, I am running into a problem with choice scarfed Mamoswine Icicle spear OHKO'ing +1 Dragonite...a not so common occurance, but it goes to show that my dragonite doesn't want to switch in to anything other than a status move perhaps. +1 Fire Punch really ruins a lot of steel type pokemons that Sylveon doesn't like

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Nature: Bold
252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Thunder wave
-Ice beam
-Foul Play
-Recover

Probably the weakest link in the roster, but in conjunction with Gengar and its tankiness, this guy has always been there for me. I actually really want to use Cresselia in place of Porygon2 due to Blaziken, but then I open myself up to dark-type special moves. Anyways, I use this guy mostly with Gengar to form a ghost/normal core to spread paralysis and to soak up hits. Ice beam does pretty good damage to dragons, and Foul play is for those pokemon who think they can set up SD or DD on Porygon2 and get away with it.

Mega-Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate/Shadow Tag
Nature: Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 Hp
-WoW
-Hex
-Sludge Bomb
-Destiny Bond

Trapper and Sweeper. If i can spread burns to the physical sweepers and/or paralysis to their other pokemon, I just use Hex and win the game. If I need to get rid of a particular pokemon, Destiny Bond is the way to go. Sludge bomb for neutral coverage. WoW cripples physical attackers, which helps set up my Sylveon and allows Dragonite to maybe survive a 2nd hit after Multiscale breaks. This guy is too damn good not to use, especially if I have to get rid of a pesky pokemon.

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
252 Hp / 160 Def / 80 SpA / 16 SpD
-Will O' Wisp
-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-HP Ice

My pivot lead. I like HP Ice for better coverage with hydro pump and extra damage against pokemon like Garchomp and Salamence. Pretty standard set otherwise I believe.

Game plan:

If no fairy types, scarfed pokemon with ice type attacks, or focus sash users: Dragonite Lead, DD, Outrage/fire punch sweep. Clean up with any of the other pokemon I have

If I suspect a focus sash user/scarfed pokemon and they have a potential fire/fighting coverage lead, Rotom-W volt switch into Ferrothorn stealth rocks. Or, Rotom WoW, then Volt switch into Gengar Hex. If the pokemon is a fire type or is faster than gengar, I'd have to switch into Ferrothorn for T-wave and sacrifice him. This plan really sucks if they lead with Blaziken and they have other pokemon that requires Rotom's help like Mawile or Lucario.

If the above plans don't work for some reason, like if I have to guess between sending Dragonite into a Togekiss or sending Rotom into a Serperior, I lead with Gengar and hope after I destiny bond their lead pokemon that their remaining two pokemon don't counter my remaining two pokemon.

So...onto problems I've ran into and I need help fixing...the first three are the more important ones:

--Mega-Blaziken--

Well...it's actually any fire pokemon or pokemon that have fire/fighting coverage. The only pokemon that resists both of those types is my Dragonite, and he's pretty weak after multiscale gets broken. Even though Gengar is immune to fighting type moves, he gets OHKO'd or seriously damaged from any other type of move. Bulky-Talonflame would work in place of Porygon2 I think, but I'd have a hell of a time keeping Talonflame alive through Rocks and other boosted attacks. Any ideas here?

--Pokemon are too slow and too frail --

Dragon/fairy/steel core doesn't work too well if my Dragonite can't take more than 1 hit. Sylveon is also weak to a lot of really heavy hitters like Mega-salamence Double Edge, so I can't switch her into stuff like that. I was thinking about using Clefable instead of Sylveon, but I'm not sure how much better a Clefable would do in that situation. I was also thinking about having Klefki reflect/light screen suicide lead in place of Ferrothorn, but I don't have strong enough sweepers on this team to play 2v3, especially if I don't know what the other 2 pokemon are.

--Over-reliance on Rotom-W--
I use this guy both for water coverage and for getting Gengar/Sylveon/Dragonite in safely. This guy doesn't survive long enough to do both. Any suggestions for getting more mileage out of my Rotom?

No Earthquake coverage

I'm missing EQ coverage for common steel type pokemon that give me problems like Mawile, Heattran, Aegislash. I have Dragonite fire punch, but that's it...it would be nice I think if I could throw in a scarfed Mamoswine or a scared MB Exadrill in there. I haven't found an EQ user I like for this team, and I don't want to use EQ on dragonite because of stuff like Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Salamence that I run into more often than heattran.

Taunt

My entire team is more or less taunt bait. I was thinking of putting taunt on Gengar, but I'm not sure where else I could fit taunt.

 

[Omastar68]

Hello again, been a while.

So yer right that Gyro doesn't really make sense on your Ferrothorn. Iron Head is way better with t-wave, and if they're parad the flinch can buy a free turn of Lefties and Leech Seed healing, Then you want an Impish nature and 31 Spe IV to outspeed more parad stuff.

Sylveon i'm not keen on Chesto Berry with Snore since Snore means you're sort of ok with being asleep. Lefties and Sitrus are taken tho...so maybe not. A Pixie Plate boosts both yer attacks, but i'm not sure how much that'd really help. Kee Berry is cool if you can stay in, but Sylveon is very easily forced out by physical steel types and Heatran in particular. Also on evs you want 204 Def/ 52 SpA or something-you have more than 510 right now lol.

Anyways, I think that Heatran problem is more than enough reason to run EQ on DNite. Fire Punch is nice, but you don't wanna be mostly walled by Heatran, and as you say EQ coverage is great. Another thing is it hits Aegi harder while avoiding the atk drop from KS.

P2 is mostly fine. I'd either run Trace on it or Discharge to have another move benefiting from a possible SpA boost. The para chance is still quite good too.

Rotom-W looks good except the evs again. If you have an odd iv any evs in that stat shouldn't be divisible by 8. So you'd want something like 164 Def/ 76 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 12 Spe.

 

[Fireflame]

So I don't play Battle Spot Singles - I only know that you can't use two of the same item; but based on this most Pokemon are just UU, OU, and Ubers. Hopefully my rate will help some of your concerns.

First off I would like to point out that your team has 4 physical walls and 0 special walls, so I suggest you look into that.

So for Ferrothorn, you mentioned that having Gyro Ball + Thunder Wave is counter intuitive, which it is. However, Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's best offensive move, as it does more damage across the board then Power Whip. Also, you can have Ferrothorn switch into predicted TWaves so that its power gets increased. Therefore, Toxic > Thunder Wave. Toxic enables you to cripple opposing walls and also allows you to still keep a status move. Alternatively, you could run Protect if you want to stall out a turn. Also, I recommend Rocky Helmet > Leftovers because Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs does a lot of damage to physical attackers (does even more if they're seeded). This also punishes Blaziken for killing Ferrothorn, who you mentioned as a threat to this team. Rocky Helmet also frees up a Leftovers for another teammate. If you want to swap Leftovers with Rocky Helmet, then don't run Protect (since Protect is used to add extra recovery with Leftovers), but Leftovers is still a good option since Ferrothorn lacks recovery. Also, your EV spread is sub-optimal. A spread of 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD allows you to survive numerous special attacks, and it gives you special bulk which your team sorely lacks in. Also, make sure you have 0 Speed IVs so Gyro Ball does maximum damage.

I agree with the post above about Sylveon. It seems that it's too situational, since Ferrothorn can tank Spores and Sleep Powders. Also, since you have Chesto Berry, you will need to be put to sleep a second time in order to utilize Snore. Therefore, Pixie Plate/Life Orb > Chesto Berry. I think Pixie Plate is better because it can bluff a Choice Specs early game and it allows for boosts on Hyper Voice and Snore without losing HP. Also, the amount of EVs you have doesn't add up to 508. I would run 244 HP / 172 Def / 68 SpA / 24 Spe with a Modest Nature. This is just Smogon's spread for this set but with a slight change: Smogon suggests 4 SpD and 20 Spe to outspeed uninvested base 60s, but 4 SpD does nothing and adding it to speed allows you to creep.

For Dragonite, Earthquake > Fire Punch to solve your problem. Although Fire Punch might seem useful to hit Steel types, having Earthquake covers more threats than Fire Punch. Furthermore, 4 Def > 4 HP so you have an odd HP in order to take minimal damage from SR.

Your Porygon2 is fine, but I think you should replace Porygon2 with Slowbro for several reasons. First off, Slowbro allows you to check Mega-Blaziken, the threat you mentioned, while also dishing out burns with Scalds. Having Slowbro also solves your over-reliance on Rotom-W, since you feel that you need more water coverage. Slowbro also gets access to Regenerator, therefore having more longevity than Porygon2 in the long run. The Slowbro set is right below this. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD can be used since your team needs more SpD. If it's not working out, then use Porygon2 (don't want to pressure you into changing a Pokemon).

Slowbro

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind/Thunder Wave

Your Gengar is fine but again 4 Def > 4 HP since you want to take minimum damage from Stealth Rocks. As for Rotom-W, I don't understand the EVs. So, a spread of 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe allows you to be bulkier and speed creep other Rotom-W.

Well, that's my rate! The sets with the changes are right below this. Sorry if it was a little long. Hopefully I helped solve some of your problems that you mentioned and good luck with the team!

Sets

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
-Toxic
-Stealth Rock
-Leech seed
-Gyro Ball

Sylveon @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixelate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 244 HP / 172 Def / 68 SpA / 24 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Calm Mind
-Rest
-Snore

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Extreme Speed
-Earthquake

Mega-Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 Def
-Will-O-Wisp
-Hex
-Sludge Bomb
-Destiny Bond

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe
-Will-O-Wisp
-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-Hidden Power Ice

 

[Omastar68]

So I don't play Battle Spot Singles - I only know that you can't use two of the same item; but based on this most Pokemon are just UU, OU, and Ubers. Hopefully my rate will help some of your concerns.

First off I would like to point out that your team has 4 physical walls and 0 special walls, so I suggest you look into that.

So for Ferrothorn, you mentioned that having Gyro Ball + Thunder Wave is counter intuitive, which it is. However, Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's best offensive move, as it does more damage across the board then Power Whip. Also, you can have Ferrothorn switch into predicted TWaves so that its power gets increased. Therefore, Toxic > Thunder Wave. Toxic enables you to cripple opposing walls and also allows you to still keep a status move. Alternatively, you could run Protect if you want to stall out a turn. Also, I recommend Rocky Helmet > Leftovers because Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs does a lot of damage to physical attackers (does even more if they're seeded). This also punishes Blaziken for killing Ferrothorn, who you mentioned as a threat to this team. Rocky Helmet also frees up a Leftovers for another teammate. If you want to swap Leftovers with Rocky Helmet, then don't run Protect (since Protect is used to add extra recovery with Leftovers), but Leftovers is still a good option since Ferrothorn lacks recovery. Also, your EV spread is sub-optimal. A spread of 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD allows you to survive numerous special attacks, and it gives you special bulk which your team sorely lacks in. Also, make sure you have 0 Speed IVs so Gyro Ball does maximum damage.

I agree with the post above about Sylveon. It seems that it's too situational, since Ferrothorn can tank Spores and Sleep Powders. Also, since you have Chesto Berry, you will need to be put to sleep a second time in order to utilize Snore. Therefore, Pixie Plate/Life Orb > Chesto Berry. I think Pixie Plate is better because it can bluff a Choice Specs early game and it allows for boosts on Hyper Voice and Snore without losing HP. Also, the amount of EVs you have doesn't add up to 508. I would run 244 HP / 172 Def / 68 SpA / 24 Spe with a Modest Nature. This is just Smogon's spread for this set but with a slight change: Smogon suggests 4 SpD and 20 Spe to outspeed uninvested base 60s, but 4 SpD does nothing and adding it to speed allows you to creep.

For Dragonite, Earthquake > Fire Punch to solve your problem. Although Fire Punch might seem useful to hit Steel types, having Earthquake covers more threats than Fire Punch. Furthermore, 4 Def > 4 HP so you have an odd HP in order to take minimal damage from SR.

Your Porygon2 is fine, but I think you should replace Porygon2 with Slowbro for several reasons. First off, Slowbro allows you to check Mega-Blaziken, the threat you mentioned, while also dishing out burns with Scalds. Having Slowbro also solves your over-reliance on Rotom-W, since you feel that you need more water coverage. Slowbro also gets access to Regenerator, therefore having more longevity than Porygon2 in the long run. The Slowbro set is right below this. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD can be used since your team needs more SpD. If it's not working out, then use Porygon2 (don't want to pressure you into changing a Pokemon).

Sylveon isn't really a physical wall lol. Much bulkier on special side at least with cms. Physical attackers are a bit more prevelant than special attackers, so i'm not too concerned about that. This team seems sorta ok vs Gengar(P2 can win, Gyro Ball duz a lot, and boosted DNite is faster and ohkod,) and Thund doesn't have the best time either, especially vs Sylveon.

That makes sense about Ferro, Helmet can rack up a ton of damage and frees Lefties if Sylveon wants those. Toxic idk, but it's not all bad. Steels can switch in pretty nice on Ferro tho, which is a point in favor of T-Wave. I dint kno about that alternate ev spread, only ever went with yer standard 252/252 in Ferro. Mons are level 50 here, so you'd tweak evs a bit. 84 def/ 172 SpD, or 92/ 164. Are you still thinking Relaxed/Impish?

Slowbro i'm not sure. Makes a bigger Gengar problem(even with a spread that lives Max SpA Shadow Ball from full,) and also Thund and some stuff. Ice weaks like Chomp and Mence are already covered by P2, and Blaziken, while bad, ain't werth the Gengar problem. Rotom can often revenge, and Sylveon does a lot too.

 

[imBLIND]

Thank you both for your inputs. I know my EVs make no sense, but it's mostly because I really don't remember what EVs I put into the pokemon where I split them into 3 or more catagories...aka my P2, Rotom, and Sylveon. The EVs on Rotom have been brought up in the past by a lot of people, and I think I settled for a combination where my HP Ice can 2HKO Salamence and Garchomp. I think you guys might've noticed I like to be overly prepared for Garchomp and Salamence...I'll make a different Rotom that will fit this team better.

I think changing my Ferrothorn to a SpD wall instead of a Def wall has a lot of merit, considering my Sylveon is my only pseudo-special wall and that she can't stay in vs Greninja and other pokemon with poison/steel special attacks. I'm not a huge fan of Toxic replacing T-wave, as Sylveon, Dragonite, and Gengar do need speed control help versus pokemon like Greninja, Mega-Gengar, Mega-Salemence, and set-up sweepers. I tried using a combination of Slowbro/Ferrothorn/Sylveon, but I just remember running into huge problems with Gengar, primarily in the picking phase. Either I ran Slowbro/Ferrothorn/Sylveon and hope he doesn't pick Gengar, or, I run P2 or Dragonite with Sylveon/Ferrothorn and hope he doesn't pick Azumarill or something that would put me in a similar conundrum.

I will note though that this Sylveon Set is actually very flexible; The Chesto/Resto allows me to get 2+ CMs in if I decide to setup and sweep, and the investment into SpA makes Hyper Voice still hit like a truck to most other pokemon. You would think that the Chesto Berry is pointless since you have to rest twice to use Snore, but it allows me to have Sylveon soak up neutral, heavy-hitting moves like Thunderbolt from Thunderus, CM depending on my HP, and then Rest/chesto. Sometimes, I'm able to cheese out enough CMs and Rest/snore my way through stuff like Mixed Aegislash and Physically Defensive Heattran, but any sort of strong steel/poison type attack or strong physical type attack ends Sylveon. It's also hilariously good against pokemon that think they can Toxic stall my Sylveon as I get some free CMs in from the chesto berry. It's still pretty reliant on me getting WoW on their physical sweepers though, and obviously any physical Fire type pokemon will ruin this plan, hence my need for something to beat M-Blaziken without sacrificing too much elsewhere.

I think I'm going to try and see if I can find a replacement for Gengar, and then replace Porygon with a Cressila, Slowbro, or maybe an Eviolite Dusclops? It could work..

 

[Fireflame]

Sylveon isn't really a physical wall lol. Much bulkier on special side at least with cms. Physical attackers are a bit more prevelant than special attackers, so i'm not too concerned about that. This team seems sorta ok vs Gengar(P2 can win, Gyro Ball duz a lot, and boosted DNite is faster and ohkod,) and Thund doesn't have the best time either, especially vs Sylveon.

That makes sense about Ferro, Helmet can rack up a ton of damage and frees Lefties if Sylveon wants those. Toxic idk, but it's not all bad. Steels can switch in pretty nice on Ferro tho, which is a point in favor of T-Wave. I dint kno about that alternate ev spread, only ever went with yer standard 252/252 in Ferro. Mons are level 50 here, so you'd tweak evs a bit. 84 def/ 172 SpD, or 92/ 164. Are you still thinking Relaxed/Impish?

Slowbro i'm not sure. Makes a bigger Gengar problem(even with a spread that lives Max SpA Shadow Ball from full,) and also Thund and some stuff. Ice weaks like Chomp and Mence are already covered by P2, and Blaziken, while bad, ain't werth the Gengar problem. Rotom can often revenge, and Sylveon does a lot too.

So I'm replying to both of you guys right now in regards to Omastar68's reply.

I just chose the Smogon Sylveon set for Snore. The reason you run defense EVs is because calm mind boosts special defense. Therefore, having EVs invested in SpD isn't as effective as increasing your physical bulk. The given defense EVs avoids a OHKO from Jolly Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge. However, you could opt to get rid of the 68 SpA due to calm mind, and instead dump it in more defense.

So for Ferrothorn the alternate EV spread is more situational and common in OU. I think it suits well since this team lacks any true special wall. Definitely Relaxed nature since Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's best damaging move. Toxic still cripples opposing walls, and having a status move does help. Ferrothorn gets access to Knock Off if Thunder Wave vs. Toxic is causing too much trouble. Although steels can switch in on Ferro, Ferrothorn shouldn't be your steel switch-in, and vice-versa.

So for my Slowbro suggestion, it does cover the main two problems he mentioned (Mega-Blaziken as a threat and over-reliance on Rotom-W). However, like I mentioned in my rate, I don't play Battle Spot, so I'm not used to having Mega Gengar as an issue... Also forgot that you can only have 3 Pokemon.

Maybe in order to handle Mega-Gengar, you could change Rotom-W to a special defense variant, or change Porygon2 into a mixed wall, but tbh I think without Porygon2 your team can handle Mega Gengar:

Ferrothorn vs. Mega-Gengar

252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 64-76 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

vs.

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 96-114 (71.1 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragonite vs. Mega-Gengar

252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 47-56 (28.3 - 33.7%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO
or
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 94-112 (56.6 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs.

252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 152-180 (112.5 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Rotom-W vs. Mega-Gengar

252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 90-106 (57.6 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 244 HP / 252 SpD Rotom-W: 72-85 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 55.1% chance to 2HKO

vs.

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 67-81 (49.6 - 60%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Porygon2 vs. Mega-Gengar + Mega Blaziken compared to Slowbro vs. Mega-Gengar + Mega-Blaziken

PORYGON2:

Mega Gengar:
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 66-78 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
or
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 52-63 (27 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

vs.

0- Atk Porygon2 Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 56-66 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega Blaziken:
252+ Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 120-144 (62.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or
252+ Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 150-176 (78.1 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs.

0- Atk Porygon2 Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 37-44 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- 93.9% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 24-28 (15.4 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO


SLOWBRO:

Mega-Gengar:
252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 194-230 (96 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

vs.

0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 108-128 (80 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 48-57 (35.5 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega-Blaziken:
252+ Atk Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Mega Slowbro: 41-49 (20.2 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

vs.

0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 120-144 (77.4 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 120-144 (77.4 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So as you can see, the only thing Mega-Gengar can OHKO besides your own Mega-Gengar is Slowbro (75% chance), who Porygon2 walls; but Slowbro absolutely destroys Mega-Blaziken. On the other hand, Porygon2 can't do diddly squat against Blaziken, but Slowbro's Psyshock does more damage to Mega-Gengar than Porygon2's Foul Play. Slowbro's Scald does the same amount as Foul Play and can hit Gengar hard on the switch as well. Dragonite can safely set up a DD and then OHKO with Earthquake (can even OHKO without +1). So you have to decide whether Mega-Gengar or Mega-Blaziken is a bigger threat.

 

[Fireflame]

So I'm replying to both of you guys right now in regards to Omastar68's reply.

I just chose the Smogon Sylveon set for Snore. The reason you run defense EVs is because calm mind boosts special defense. Therefore, having EVs invested in SpD isn't as effective as increasing your physical bulk. The given defense EVs avoids a OHKO from Jolly Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge. However, you could opt to get rid of the 68 SpA due to calm mind, and instead dump it in more defense.

So for Ferrothorn the alternate EV spread is more situational and common in OU. I think it suits well since this team lacks any true special wall. Definitely Relaxed nature since Gyro Ball is Ferrothorn's best damaging move. Toxic still cripples opposing walls, and having a status move does help. Ferrothorn gets access to Knock Off if Thunder Wave vs. Toxic is causing too much trouble. Although steels can switch in on Ferro, Ferrothorn shouldn't be your steel switch-in, and vice-versa.

So for my Slowbro suggestion, it does cover the main two problems he mentioned (Mega-Blaziken as a threat and over-reliance on Rotom-W). However, like I mentioned in my rate, I don't play Battle Spot, so I'm not used to having Mega Gengar as an issue... Also forgot that you can only have 3 Pokemon.

Maybe in order to handle Mega-Gengar, you could change Rotom-W to a special defense variant, or change Porygon2 into a mixed wall, but tbh I think without Porygon2 your team can handle Mega Gengar:

Ferrothorn vs. Mega-Gengar

252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 64-76 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

vs.

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 96-114 (71.1 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragonite vs. Mega-Gengar

252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 47-56 (28.3 - 33.7%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO
or
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 94-112 (56.6 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs.

252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 152-180 (112.5 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Rotom-W vs. Mega-Gengar

252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 90-106 (57.6 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 244 HP / 252 SpD Rotom-W: 72-85 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 55.1% chance to 2HKO

vs.

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 67-81 (49.6 - 60%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Porygon2 vs. Mega-Gengar + Mega Blaziken compared to Slowbro vs. Mega-Gengar + Mega-Blaziken

PORYGON2:

Mega Gengar:
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 66-78 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
or
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 52-63 (27 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

vs.

0- Atk Porygon2 Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 56-66 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega Blaziken:
252+ Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 120-144 (62.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or
252+ Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 150-176 (78.1 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs.

0- Atk Porygon2 Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 37-44 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- 93.9% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 24-28 (15.4 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO


SLOWBRO:

Mega-Gengar:
252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 194-230 (96 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

vs.

0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 108-128 (80 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 48-57 (35.5 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega-Blaziken:
252+ Atk Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Mega Slowbro: 41-49 (20.2 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

vs.

0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 120-144 (77.4 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 120-144 (77.4 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So as you can see, the only thing Mega-Gengar can OHKO besides your own Mega-Gengar is Slowbro (75% chance), who Porygon2 walls; but Slowbro absolutely destroys Mega-Blaziken. On the other hand, Porygon2 can't do diddly squat against Blaziken, but Slowbro's Psyshock does more damage to Mega-Gengar than Porygon2's Foul Play. Slowbro's Scald does the same amount as Foul Play and can hit Gengar hard on the switch as well. Dragonite can safely set up a DD and then OHKO with Earthquake (can even OHKO without +1). So you have to decide whether Mega-Gengar or Mega-Blaziken is a bigger threat.

Also just found out: Mega Gengar is used on 36.1% of teams, while Mega Blaziken is used on 7.4% of teams.

 

[Omastar68]

Well, another thing is Slowbro creates a much bigger problem against Aegislash. Yer probably used to that being locked away in Ubers, but in BSS it's a big deal.

Mega Venusaur is also kinda icky fer this team. Slowbro isn't completely hopeless against it, but Giga Drain does a lot bar cm boosts. And Slowbro definitely isn't ohkoing bar several cm boosts. Kinda makes me wonder about Psychic on P2, but that's a bit of a stretch.

Allso you fergot Sitrus in yer Rotom-W calc, so Mega Gengar is actually only 3hkoing. Not that that makes it safe or anything. Poison chance urts a lot even if it's normal not Toxic, and Hydro Pump often misses. Plus you got Hypnosis Gengar to worry about, and Destiny Bond means Genar will at the worst be trading 1 for 1. Good deal, but likely they can switch it out or it's already killed something.

If Gengar hasn't mega evolved, it's likely to not do so on DNite to avoid an EQ, unless it's bulky cuz that can avoid the ohko from unboosted Outrage as a mega if it's not been weakened very much.

 

[Fireflame]

Well, another thing is Slowbro creates a much bigger problem against Aegislash. Yer probably used to that being locked away in Ubers, but in BSS it's a big deal.

Mega Venusaur is also kinda icky fer this team. Slowbro isn't completely hopeless against it, but Giga Drain does a lot bar cm boosts. And Slowbro definitely isn't ohkoing bar several cm boosts. Kinda makes me wonder about Psychic on P2, but that's a bit of a stretch.

Allso you fergot Sitrus in yer Rotom-W calc, so Mega Gengar is actually only 3hkoing. Not that that makes it safe or anything. Poison chance urts a lot even if it's normal not Toxic, and Hydro Pump often misses. Plus you got Hypnosis Gengar to worry about, and Destiny Bond means Genar will at the worst be trading 1 for 1. Good deal, but likely they can switch it out or it's already killed something.

If Gengar hasn't mega evolved, it's likely to not do so on DNite to avoid an EQ, unless it's bulky cuz that can avoid the ohko from unboosted Outrage as a mega if it's not been weakened very much.

Well, having Porygon2 does create some problems (Mega-Blaziken), but adds new ones. It's the same with Slowbro, but Slowbro adds and fixes different problems. imBLIND just has to decide whether the threats Porygon2 checks are more of an issue than what Slowbro checks.

 

[imBLIND]

M-Venusaur is countered by Gengar pretty well, as any combination of giga drain, sludge bomb, or HP fire will take at a minimum 4 hits, with leech seed, whereas WoW/Hex will 2hko very often.

If I replace one of my members with Slowbro, I'm covering Blaziken, Heattran, Lucario, and more or less everything Sylveon hates. However, I would be adding or exacerbating weaknesses to Gengar, Hydreigon, Scizor, Volcarona, Thundurus, Greninja, and Rotom. Some other less common threats would include Raikou, Zapdos, Ampharos, Suicune, Charizard-Y...I could replace Rotom with Slowbro, perhaps replace P2 with Chansey, and run a Slowbro/P2 or Chansey core alongside Dragonite, Gengar, or Sylveon...I will try this out and see if this works out well or not

 

[cant say]

Ferro with T-Wave should use Iron Head for STAB with a spread of 236 HP / 212 Def / 60 Spe and an Impish Nature. This allows you to outspeed max base 100s (Jolly Kangaskhan etc) and fish for para-flinch and free lefties / leech seed recovery. This helps with your weakness to opposing Sylveon.

Use either Kee Berry or Pixie Plate on Sylveon.

Hex Mega Gengar is best used with a bulkier spread since you need the insurance of being able to live most hits incase you miss Wisp, so that you can either try it again or use Destiny Bond. Max HP / max speed works, however I've been using 188 HP / 116 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe which allows you to live a Garchomp Outrage and Mega Heracross Rock Blast, both in non-Mega forme! Which allows for switching into them. The speed lets non-Mega outspeed Garchomp and Mega outspeed Greninja.

I think everything else looks pretty good. Dragonite + Porygon2 is one of my favourite cores, and you have lots of ways to spread status for Gengar to come in and clean up. Stall looks annoying to face since Chansey and Unaware Clefable take a dump on this squad, but I'm not really sure what to do other than to try Hypnosis on Gengar.

 

[imBLIND]

Good suggestion on the bulky Gengar; I've been able to switch in on a lot of threats, eliminate them with destiny bond, and then let Dragonite loose. I'm running into a lot of Steel/Poison teams for some reason, so I have not been able to test out the Kee Berry Sylveon as much as I had hoped, but the Kee berry is definitely more useful than the Chesto Berry. The only question I have now is if I should still keep Hyper Voice since I already have Snore?

I'm still having a difficult time getting past all these Blazikens, Talonflames, Lucarios, Heracross, Conkeldurrs, and other various physical pokemon that dent the crap out of my team...should I maybe switch Ferrothorn out for Amoongus or tank that is not super weak to fighting?

 

[a0161613]

Good suggestion on the bulky Gengar; I've been able to switch in on a lot of threats, eliminate them with destiny bond, and then let Dragonite loose. I'm running into a lot of Steel/Poison teams for some reason, so I have not been able to test out the Kee Berry Sylveon as much as I had hoped, but the Kee berry is definitely more useful than the Chesto Berry. The only question I have now is if I should still keep Hyper Voice since I already have Snore?

I'm still having a difficult time getting past all these Blazikens, Talonflames, Lucarios, Heracross, Conkeldurrs, and other various physical pokemon that dent the crap out of my team...should I maybe switch Ferrothorn out for Amoongus or tank that is not super weak to fighting?

Showdown is super paranoid about Mega Kangaskhan. You may not see this as a problem on cart.

 

[Omastar68]

M-Venusaur is countered by Gengar pretty well, as any combination of giga drain, sludge bomb, or HP fire will take at a minimum 4 hits, with leech seed, whereas WoW/Hex will 2hko very often.

If I replace one of my members with Slowbro, I'm covering Blaziken, Heattran, Lucario, and more or less everything Sylveon hates. However, I would be adding or exacerbating weaknesses to Gengar, Hydreigon, Scizor, Volcarona, Thundurus, Greninja, and Rotom. Some other less common threats would include Raikou, Zapdos, Ampharos, Suicune, Charizard-Y...I could replace Rotom with Slowbro, perhaps replace P2 with Chansey, and run a Slowbro/P2 or Chansey core alongside Dragonite, Gengar, or Sylveon...I will try this out and see if this works out well or not

I gess I dint see and thot it was Shadow Ball Gengar. That wouldn't be as good, but Hex wins for sure. You'll have to take a Leech Seed, but that's about it unless it's EQ Venu, which isn't too common.

Slowbro I really like, maybe I was hasty in dismissing it. Nice synergy with Ferro, and it can do quite a bit even to its checks and counters by living a hit they think will ohko and hitting back, or having some cm boosts, since mega cares little about the majority of physical attackers. AV is really good to live most anything to hit back, and Fire Blast beats Scizor that lack an SD boost. Still most electrics are trouble, taking STABs, Ice Beam, and FB well. CM Mega is a bit better with those since it might be able to set up a cm as they switch in, but it's still not a great match up.

I'm not so sure about Chansey over P2 since she's quite useless against Gengar. Scizor is pretty cruel to, and no chance vs Suicune most times.

Speaking of which, how is Suicune one of the less common threats lol. Mega CM Slowbro also gets past standard ChestoRest Cune well with Psyshock, tho it's bad if it's Toxic or Roar. Not sure about yer Suicune match up, tho I say that about most teams. Sylveon you can do good especially against Sub Toxic Cune, but again you have to watch out for Roar.

 

[imBLIND]

After a lot of testing, I found that there's really no net positive between using Slowbro and Rotom...replacing P2 with Slowbro left me weak against Gengar, and replacing Rotom with Slowbro had mixed results. Sometimes Slowbro/Ferrothorn worked perfectly, and other times there was a HP fire, Gengar, Mawile that never got burned...etc. Maybe I'm just battling poorly, but I don't think I can make Slowbro work with this current roster. I don't know/can't think of another pokemon that can replace Rotom-W as an effective pivot that has all the utility of Rotom.

I was, and still am, having problems against Suicune/Lucario combinations, as Sylveon is my only mon right now capable of handling Suicune, and I had no good counter for Lucario/Blaziken/Lopunny/Heracross switch ins. If my Sylveon didn't OHKO the next pokemon coming in, I was definitely going to get 2HKO by any faster physical sweeper. I considered Chandelure in place of Gengar for a while, but I couldn't do that because I use destiny bond to get rid of every other pokemon. I feel like my Gengar is what is limiting my options, so I'm gonna see if my Wobbufett can replace Gengar as the trapper to get rid of physical pokemon...round two is going to be breeding a new SpD Ferrothorn to go with Slowbro, and then round 3 is going to be to make a different team x.x...

 

[Fireflame]

From the Smogon Gengar Battle Spot Singles page:

Psychic-types: While Gengar can beat most Psychic-types with Shadow Ball, it still has to be wary of switching into them due to its weakness to Psychic-type moves. Gallade, Gardevoir, Metagross, and Slowbro are particularly threatening.