Resource Simple Questions/Simple Answers: Random Battles Edition

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

This thread is intended for simple questions regarding the Random Battles format specifically (questions related to PS, Smogon, or general competitive play should go elsewhere). If you are responding to a question, first, thank you, and secondly, please quote the person you are replying to so that the thread stays organized.

Disclaimer (READ BEFORE POSTING):

Random Battles try to always make every part of the competitive Pokemon realm available (not including traits exclusive to AG like Evasion, duplicate species or OHKO moves), along with always aiming to give each Pokemon its best competitive options on their sets. Our method for nerfing strong Pokemon includes a subjective level reduction based on objective winrate data (availabe on the /rwr command), while we try to buff reduced winrate Pokemon by increasing their levels or thinking on alternative sets that might be more useful for them.
Therefore, this thread is not for suggestions, questions or complaints about a particular set that seems too overwhelming for you, as at best it's an issue that will be solved with level nerfing, and if winrates don't abide to it being broken you can reach the Random Battles room to ask for suggestions on how to properly deal with it.

Regarding Gen 9 Moody in particular, after extensive discussion among the room auth, it was deemed best for no action to be taken at this time. This may be revisited if Scovillain's winrate rises and its level drops to 74 or below from standard winrate-based level balancing. Until that point, no action will be taken on Moody. Please do not post about it further.

 

[El químico del pueblucho]

This forum is about question about the sets, tiering, or something, srry i don't get too well... whats this is about?
2nd: how are leveling of randombattles mons sometimes they get 76 level being ou(while most ou's have 80 level)

 

[Celever]

This forum is about question about the sets, tiering, or something, srry i don't get too well... whats this is about?
2nd: how are leveling of randombattles mons sometimes they get 76 level being ou(while most ou's have 80 level)

Levels are also adjusted from time to time based on winrate. If a Pokémon wins way above average, its level is decreased a little for balance, and likewise for if a Pokémon loses too often the level is increased a little. But of course, initial levels are based on what tiers the Pokémon are in.

 

[Irpachuza]

This forum is about question about the sets, tiering, or something, srry i don't get too well... whats this is about?

As Annika pointed on the OP, this thread is for any kind of question you want answered regarding randomized formats, including sets but also move generation, leveling and such

Levels are also adjusted from time to time based on winrate. If a Pokémon wins way above average, its level is decreased a little for balance, and likewise for if a Pokémon loses too often the level is increased a little. But of course, initial levels are based on what tiers the Pokémon are in.

Edit: also this is correct but only currently applies to Gen 8 Singles, Monotype and Doubles Random Battles. Old gens use plain tiering (except for some bad mons at level 100) and side formats like Hackmons Cup use other formulas.

 

[El químico del pueblucho]

Thanks guys!

 

[Aurelian]

I just had a battle with someone where I won off of the knowledge that the second they sent out their Moltres it was Zoroark. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1289029223-0drsh5furtrglf38eozjls1kntdmbk0pw Is this supposed to happen? Their team had a Zoroark icon appear when they sent it out despite me having not seen Moltres before, and also I hadn't damaged the Moltres nor were there any hazards so there really shouldn't have been any way for me to tell.

 

[Irpachuza]

I just had a battle with someone where I won off of the knowledge that the second they sent out their Moltres it was Zoroark. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1289029223-0drsh5furtrglf38eozjls1kntdmbk0pw Is this supposed to happen? Their team had a Zoroark icon appear when they sent it out despite me having not seen Moltres before, and also I hadn't damaged the Moltres nor were there any hazards so there really shouldn't have been any way for me to tell.

Moltres was revealed to be lvl 80 on turn 1, while the Zoro was lvl 68 (in Randbats, its level is determined to be the same as the slot 6 of the party). This "reveal zoro if the mon was already revealed and has a different level" helps stopping a bug that caused a 7th slot to appear otherwise

 

[Cat Steven]

How are the IVs/EVs of Beast Boost mons determined to ensure a lower stat receives the boost? For example Nihilego got a SpAtk boost instead of SpDef boost

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

How are the IVs/EVs of Beast Boost mons determined to ensure a lower stat receives the boost? For example Nihilego got a SpAtk boost instead of SpDef boost

84 evs in all stats, except in the case of Nihilego, which is specially EVd to lose exactly seven special defense points so it gets a SpA boost instead. Nihilego does this because the loss is minimal. Its other EVs are still each 84.

 

[ethan_asian]

I am playing Randoms Gen 8 and got Golurk. However, it did not have Dynamic Punch. I'm pretty sure that Golurk used to have it. Am I wrong?

 

[Colteor]

I am playing Randoms Gen 8 and got Golurk. However, it did not have Dynamic Punch. I'm pretty sure that Golurk used to have it. Am I wrong?

The way movepools are generated in randoms is that it pulls from a pool of potential moves that mon can get. For example, Golurk can get 4 of Dynamic Punch, Earthquake, Poltergeist, Rock Polish or Stone Edge. You rolled the other 4 moves so there was no room for Dynamic Punch. There's a few other rules to ensure bad sets don't get generated but that's the gist of it. You can see this pool by checking the randbats damage calc or by doing /randbats pokemon name in the PS chat.

 

[GeniusFromHoenn]

Why are Shell Smashers in Random Battles always carrying White Herb but other items in other team formats?


Cloyster (Randoms)
Item Pool
White Herb

Polteageist (Randoms)
Item Pool
White Herb

Carracosta (Randoms)
Item Pool
White Herb



In the format where the above mentioned Pokemon are used the most, they carry White Herb very rarely.

Cloyster
King's Rock 44.145%

Carracosta
Heavy-Duty Boots 74.021%

Polteageist
Focus Sash 52.977%



So, my final question is why do Shell Smashers in [Gen 8] Random Battle carry White Herb all the time as opposed to lower usage in other team formats? Thanks in advance.

 

[Irpachuza]

Why are Shell Smashers in Random Battles always carrying White Herb but other items in other team formats?


Cloyster (Randoms)
Item Pool
White Herb

Polteageist (Randoms)
Item Pool
White Herb

Carracosta (Randoms)
Item Pool
White Herb



In the format where the above mentioned Pokemon are used the most, they carry White Herb very rarely.

Cloyster
King's Rock 44.145%

Carracosta
Heavy-Duty Boots 74.021%

Polteageist
Focus Sash 52.977%



So, my final question is why do Shell Smashers in [Gen 8] Random Battle carry White Herb all the time as opposed to lower usage in other team formats? Thanks in advance.

Well, first of all, it is important to understand that when we program item generation, we follow two principles:
1. The objective of the item is to make the Pokemon individually better, almost all the time disregarding how the rest of the team is composed (some exceptions to this rule could be Shedinja getting sash only if your team has defogers, sash on certain lead mons, abilities based on weather). The individual capabilities are measured on BST to determine most of the common items, like Choice items, Leftovers, Life Orb, etc. For a thorough revision of this rules, you can read the Gen 8 Random Battles competitive guide.
2. We try to give general rules to the code that generates sets. Exceptions must follow a clear and undeniable path of making a Pokemon better, otherwise we could clutter the code too much, making it too convoluted and difficulting manteniance and bug fixing. So the code states that if a Pokemon has Shell Smash, it will get White Herb.

I dont know from what tier did you take those stats, but remember that teambuilding metas have also 3 important advantages over Random Battles when optimising a Pokemon: they can make sure the Pokemon has a good team sinergy, they can build the Pokemon while having a rough but clear idea about what checks and counters they will face, and they can give the Pokemon perfect EVs on certain stats (Random Battles use 85 EVs on each stat, with some Exceptions like, in your examples, Polt gets 0 EVs on Atk to reduce Foul Play damage). Taking this on account, lets review your questioned Pokemon:
- Cloyster may be the closer one to work better than White Herb in Randbats. Still with the prevalence of Dynamax, which cannot flinch, it could come as underwhelming at the end of the day.
- Carracosta having HDB is clearly because it also can get enough EVs to ensure to outspeed most of its checks and counters of the tier to afford risking its defenses for keeping Sturdy. We cant assure that and Carracosta never was an extremely fast sweeper in Randbats, although it usually needs more than 1 hit to get koed, even with hazard damage.
- I assume Polteageist runs Sash because its frail, but in a similar way as Carracosta, it wants that second live chance to pull off ShellSmash and then Strength Sap whatever they have in front. The issue here for Randbats would be that it heavily relies on having hazard control, which you cant assure in Randbats (much less taking on account we cant EV hazard removers to be bulky and make sure to eliminate the hazards before the sweeper enters).

I hope I answered specially why we dont neccesarilly follow item usage on teambuilding tiers (although its not like we ignore them whatsoever either).

Even then these are only my takes on it, and Randbats sets are decided by a broader team, the Random Battles Room Auth under the direction of code-owner Annika. Feel free to continue this discussion, and/or provide calcs for set suggestions or critics on the Sets thread.

 

[GeniusFromHoenn]

Well, first of all, it is important to understand that when we program item generation, we follow two principles:
1. The objective of the item is to make the Pokemon individually better, almost all the time disregarding how the rest of the team is composed (some exceptions to this rule could be Shedinja getting sash only if your team has defogers, sash on certain lead mons, abilities based on weather). The individual capabilities are measured on BST to determine most of the common items, like Choice items, Leftovers, Life Orb, etc. For a thorough revision of this rules, you can read the Gen 8 Random Battles competitive guide.
2. We try to give general rules to the code that generates sets. Exceptions must follow a clear and undeniable path of making a Pokemon better, otherwise we could clutter the code too much, making it too convoluted and difficulting manteniance and bug fixing. So the code states that if a Pokemon has Shell Smash, it will get White Herb.

I dont know from what tier did you take those stats, but remember that teambuilding metas have also 3 important advantages over Random Battles when optimising a Pokemon: they can make sure the Pokemon has a good team sinergy, they can build the Pokemon while having a rough but clear idea about what checks and counters they will face, and they can give the Pokemon perfect EVs on certain stats (Random Battles use 85 EVs on each stat, with some Exceptions like, in your examples, Polt gets 0 EVs on Atk to reduce Foul Play damage). Taking this on account, lets review your questioned Pokemon:
- Cloyster may be the closer one to work better than White Herb in Randbats. Still with the prevalence of Dynamax, which cannot flinch, it could come as underwhelming at the end of the day.
- Carracosta having HDB is clearly because it also can get enough EVs to ensure to outspeed most of its checks and counters of the tier to afford risking its defenses for keeping Sturdy. We cant assure that and Carracosta never was an extremely fast sweeper in Randbats, although it usually needs more than 1 hit to get koed, even with hazard damage.
- I assume Polteageist runs Sash because its frail, but in a similar way as Carracosta, it wants that second live chance to pull off ShellSmash and then Strength Sap whatever they have in front. The issue here for Randbats would be that it heavily relies on having hazard control, which you cant assure in Randbats (much less taking on account we cant EV hazard removers to be bulky and make sure to eliminate the hazards before the sweeper enters).

I hope I answered specially why we dont neccesarilly follow item usage on teambuilding tiers (although its not like we ignore them whatsoever either).

Even then these are only my takes on it, and Randbats sets are decided by a broader team, the Random Battles Room Auth under the direction of code-owner Annika. Feel free to continue this discussion, and/or provide calcs for set suggestions or critics on the Sets thread.

Here's my stats source. https://www.smogon.com/stats/2021-02/moveset/
Tysm!

 

[Annika]

I don't mind giving Cloyster (and other Pokémon with Skill Link + multihit moves) King's Rock in No Dmax.

I agree with Irpachuza's post, and want to add that another difference between Random Battles and other tiers is that randbats doesn't have team preview, so a Pokémon might benefit from extra bulk in case it runs into something that outspeeds it (whereas in normal tiers, you can ensure that faster Pokémon are taken out before setting up Shell Smash.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Is this where I would post this? I was in a random battle with a friend, and they got a team where every Pokemon but one was weak to fighting, being Buzzwole. This should be fixed, right?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1299910229-jm0uynl5s9s4n5u3ic2o7du2wzaqrwbpw

 

[Irpachuza]

Is this where I would post this? I was in a random battle with a friend, and they got a team where every Pokemon but one was weak to fighting, being Buzzwole. This should be fixed, right?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1299910229-jm0uynl5s9s4n5u3ic2o7du2wzaqrwbpw

Team typing generation is not based on type weaknesses, but on not having two Pokémon with the exact typing, nor three sharing one type. What happened here is called bad luck.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

Team typing generation is not based on type weaknesses, but on not having two Pokémon with the exact typing, nor three sharing one type. What happened here is called bad luck, I don't think it's something getting a fix anytime soon.

Ah, I see, thank you for the information!

 

[Cat Steven]

Moves for Audino in [Gen 8] Random Battle: Heal Bell, Knock Off, Protect, Toxic, Wish
Does Audino have any moveset rules or is it all random? Also I once (a long time ago) got one without knock off (so no damaging moves), is that still possible?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Moves for Audino in [Gen 8] Random Battle: Heal Bell, Knock Off, Protect, Toxic, Wish
Does Audino have any moveset rules or is it all random? Also I once (a long time ago) got one without knock off (so no damaging moves), is that still possible?

Audino can get sets without attacks. This is fine. It's still an annoyance. The above post is incorrect. Any code that does exist for this is likely rendered irrelevant by the move generator trying to reject either heal bell or knock off, randomly, for a STAB move that doesn't exist, leaving the other one.

 

[Cat Steven]

Can 4 damaging mixed attacks Victini get scarf or is it always AV?
Can scarf trick Victini have 3 damaging mixed attacks?
Can scyther still get band?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Can 4 damaging mixed attacks Victini get scarf or is it always AV?
Can scarf trick Victini have 3 damaging mixed attacks?
Can scyther still get band?

-always av
-i think i forgot to ask annika to remove trick to prevent mixed scarf whoops
-yes, it can, it's just rare

 

[Cat Steven]

-always av
-i think i forgot to ask annika to remove trick to prevent mixed scarf whoops
-yes, it can, it's just rare

Thanks. Also why is mixed scarf bad?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Thanks. Also why is mixed scarf bad?

blue flare is not really conducive to a choice scarf role like vcreate is; it's better off used on av sets and the rare specs.

 

[Cat Steven]

Does Cincino always gets LO now? Is it still banded in nodmax?