Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers: OM Edition

[charizard8888]

Question: Are we allowed to ask questions related to coding of some OM or Pet Mod as such how can this mechanic be made to work? Why isn't this working, here's the code [hastebin]? in the General Thread for OM Code Thread. That'd be pretty helpful.

I know the one who is coding it should know about all js, I've done js but haven't made it into application a lot so I'm currently in the know-but-don't-know-how-to stage. In short, not mature enough in PS! code (I did read the conditions enlisted in the Development Subforum and have lurked around in PS! code for some time already). These questions probably can't be asked in some other website related to js but somewhere here since it's related to PS! code.

[I've checked out the PS! Development Subforum and Technical Projects but couldn't find any code related Q&A (Probably it wasn't intended to have one anyway), and this is more related to OMs so I asked it here instead of the general SQSA thread.]

 

[The Immortal]

Question: Are we allowed to ask questions related to coding of some OM or Pet Mod as such how can this mechanic be made to work? Why isn't this working, here's the code [hastebin]? in the General Thread for OM Code Thread. That'd be pretty helpful.

I know the one who is coding it should know about all js, I've done js but haven't made it into application a lot so I'm currently in the know-but-don't-know-how-to stage. In short, not mature enough in PS! code (I did read the conditions enlisted in the Development Subforum and have lurked around in PS! code for some time already). These questions probably can't be asked in some other website related to js but somewhere here since it's related to PS! code.

[I've checked out the PS! Development Subforum and Technical Projects but couldn't find any code related Q&A (Probably it wasn't intended to have one anyway), and this is more related to OMs so I asked it here instead of the general SQSA thread.]

I suppose it's fine in the OM Code thread since it is relevant to OM. Obviously don't ask questions unrelated to the coding of an OM.

 

[Iknowup]

Can someone explain to me why the dragon scale item is banned?

 

[Akumeoy]

Can someone explain to me why the dragon scale item is banned?

Because it's from Gen 2 and this is Gen 7? why are you even trying to use it lol

 

[jrm115]

Can someone explain to me why the dragon scale item is banned?

gen 2 had its own whole set of items, man. they remade everything for gen3 before they were able to get trading up gens to work.

 

[Deleted User 91486]

Dragon Scale still exists and is needed to evolve Seadra into Kingdra. In battle, however, it nas no effect. It should not be banned, but is useless ;)

 

[sansao13]

K thanks for the help. the budgetmon concept had a few relatable notes to the one I’m thinking of submitting, so wanted to check the reasoning prior to submitting to avoid wasting people’s time.

Hello. Have you submitted the metagame in the end? I was also thinking of a meta which has the concept fit in the buddgetmon. After reading the forum rules for posts I got here to your post. So, if you did or still have the intention, I would be interested in playing it. If you didn't maybe I will investigate if its a good meta to submit

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

I was about to post this in the Shared Power thread, but it got locked before I had a chance to ask.

I understand the reasons why OM Leadership is shutting SP down, and I don't blame them for doing so. I just have one clarifying question left for the mods.

Is SP being shut down because of Balance Issues and Banning Policy, or is it being shut down just because of Banning Policy? Or in other words, would SP still be getting shut down if the counsel had handled bans in a more appropriate way?

I'm not trying to argue about this specific metagame being shut down, I just want to be sure that I understand the exact reason it was shut down.

 

[Chloe]

I was about to post this in the Shared Power thread, but it got locked before I had a chance to ask.

I understand the reasons why OM Leadership is shutting SP down, and I don't blame them for doing so. I just have one clarifying question left for the mods.

Is SP being shut down because of Balance Issues and Banning Policy, or is it being shut down just because of Banning Policy? Or in other words, would SP still be getting shut down if the counsel had handled bans in a more appropriate way?

I'm not trying to argue about this specific metagame being shut down, I just want to be sure that I understand the exact reason it was shut down.

This will all be addressed momentarily, when TI and/or Flint post to clarify our position on Shared Power. Please do not move conflict to this thread in the meantime.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

This will all be addressed momentarily, when TI and/or Flint post to clarify our position on Shared Power. Please do not move conflict to this thread in the meantime.

Sorry. I have no intention of, or interest in, being a part of an argument over this. I'll wait for the other Mods.

 

[Zyrax]

So, I wanted to post something into the Shared Power Thread, but it got closed, so I had to do it here. I mainly want to touch upon the issue, that I really don't understand at all and want to have a clear answer.

Why is Smogon so adamant about "Complex Bans"? I understand the point that as soon as you make some exceptions like "SB Blaziken is broken and should be banned, Blaze Blaziken can stay", "Is LV75 Lugia balanced in OU" and "Aeglislash without King's Shield is not broken", you can make a Plethora of exceptions for when a Pokemon is too broken for a tier and when it is not, resulting in some weird situations where people can find any stupid reason to justify a broken Pokeon still staying in a tier with some small adjustments. I perfectly understand this scenario and why Complex Bans are kept to a minimum (although I still don't understand why we didn't ban all Swift Swim Mons on a whole, instead of making the Complex Ban in Gen 5, but this is another topic).

In the case for Shared Power we could have done exactly that and literally banned any Pokemon that has an ability that - if shared - makes certain playstyles broken. But instead we decided to "ban" certain abilities from sharing that otherwise would make other play styles broken (see the clause for Speed Boosts etc.). With this, we tried to balance out the metagame and contrary to what other people said in the Thread I actually found the OM quite balanced compared to how broken it was at the beginning (I was around the 1500s). I honestly think that banning certain abilities from sharing was the right way to go and if we proceeded, we could have ended up with a somewhat balanced Metagame. I just don't understand why people are against it, if it is certainly working out. Most of the responses were "you're changing an inherent game mechanics of the OM, that should not happen". But now I ask you: why should it not happen? We literally saw that this kind of "complex ban" was the right way to go and at this point, this whole concept of forcefully keeping Complex Bans to a minimum just looks like an indoctrination, since mostly it isn't justified logically like "we don't do a Complex Ban here, because it doesn't work out and makes [...] way more complicated" but instead like "We don't do it because in the Holy Books of Smogon it says 'Thou shall not Complex Ban'".

I'm not trying to bitch about the way the Shared Powers Thread was handled at the last few pages, I am just genuinely asking because I just cannot grasp this enormous disdain for Complex Bans even if it seems logically fine for this specific case.

//Edit: For clarification: I didn't see this Thread when I started a new Thread with my above Post. The Thread itself was deleted I think and my post moved to this Thread. I just saw that the issue with Shared Power will be addressed soon. I hope some of my remarks will be answered by that.

 

[purplecharmanderz]

Hello. Have you submitted the metagame in the end? I was also thinking of a meta which has the concept fit in the buddgetmon. After reading the forum rules for posts I got here to your post. So, if you did or still have the intention, I would be interested in playing it. If you didn't maybe I will investigate if its a good meta to submit

haven't submitted it yet, was asking around for some opinions else where and i still need to work on getting the actual requirements to submit it down first. i likely will go forth with submitting it after some of the feed back i have gotten, and the worst that happens is it gets declined, and if it did it would be easy to understand why if it came from that point. i wish you luck within your own OM.

and yes it is stated on the rules page not to do this, and normally i wouldn't but again based on the response i have gotten for it i might as well look into it.

 

[jrm115]

So, I wanted to post something into the Shared Power Thread, but it got closed, so I had to do it here. I mainly want to touch upon the issue, that I really don't understand at all and want to have a clear answer.

Why is Smogon so adamant about "Complex Bans"? I understand the point that as soon as you make some exceptions like "SB Blaziken is broken and should be banned, Blaze Blaziken can stay", "Is LV75 Lugia balanced in OU" and "Aeglislash without King's Shield is not broken", you can make a Plethora of exceptions for when a Pokemon is too broken for a tier and when it is not, resulting in some weird situations where people can find any stupid reason to justify a broken Pokeon still staying in a tier with some small adjustments. I perfectly understand this scenario and why Complex Bans are kept to a minimum (although I still don't understand why we didn't ban all Swift Swim Mons on a whole, instead of making the Complex Ban in Gen 5, but this is another topic).

In the case for Shared Power we could have done exactly that and literally banned any Pokemon that has an ability that - if shared - makes certain playstyles broken. But instead we decided to "ban" certain abilities from sharing that otherwise would make other play styles broken (see the clause for Speed Boosts etc.). With this, we tried to balance out the metagame and contrary to what other people said in the Thread I actually found the OM quite balanced compared to how broken it was at the beginning (I was around the 1500s). I honestly think that banning certain abilities from sharing was the right way to go and if we proceeded, we could have ended up with a somewhat balanced Metagame. I just don't understand why people are against it, if it is certainly working out. Most of the responses were "you're changing an inherent game mechanics of the OM, that should not happen". But now I ask you: why should it not happen? We literally saw that this kind of "complex ban" was the right way to go and at this point, this whole concept of forcefully keeping Complex Bans to a minimum just looks like an indoctrination, since mostly it isn't justified logically like "we don't do a Complex Ban here, because it doesn't work out and makes [...] way more complicated" but instead like "We don't do it because in the Holy Books of Smogon it says 'Thou shall not Complex Ban'".

I'm not trying to bitch about the way the Shared Powers Thread was handled at the last few pages, I am just genuinely asking because I just cannot grasp this enormous disdain for Complex Bans even if it seems logically fine for this specific case.

//Edit: For clarification: I didn't see this Thread when I started a new Thread with my above Post. The Thread itself was deleted I think and my post moved to this Thread. I just saw that the issue with Shared Power will be addressed soon. I hope some of my remarks will be answered by that.

complex bans weren't the problem for shared power though, were they? there are tons of metas that ban things together, like 1v1's chansey+stoss+charm, the problem is that shared power's "bans" came into effect during the battle and not in the teambuilder. if you were to build a team with speed boost, it would let you go into the battle without the validator saying it wont work, which runs counterintuitive to the idea of having a validator altogether.
really the underlying issue is that bans are okay, but things that change the way the meta plays without letting new players be aware of the rules, such as stopping sharing instead of banning abilities from play, aren't.

 

[purplecharmanderz]

bit of a question that im asking here since im not sure how well it would have fit on the main post about it, if i wanted to add tier shift to my custom hosted showdown server, where would i find the code needed to import it onto that?

 

[charizard8888]

bit of a question that im asking here since im not sure how well it would have fit on the main post about it, if i wanted to add tier shift to my custom hosted showdown server, where would i find the code needed to import it onto that?

Urkerab posted most of the code here
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/general-thread-for-om-code.3589382/post-7257753
For Other Metas code, you'll find most of them in that thread either posted or linked there.
Alternatively, since Tier Shift was an OMotM(/LCotM?) you can search for it in the main server's GitHub Repository history
Here:
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/commits/master/config/formats.js
This can be done for all the OM/LCotMs (Note that some of the metas have their own mods files too so be sure to add them as well).
Full Tier Shift code from line 322 (Cant link to the line, on phone) here
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Sh...384a31e2fe265b9e1320100717b/config/formats.js

 

[purplecharmanderz]

Urkerab posted most of the code here
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/general-thread-for-om-code.3589382/post-7257753
For Other Metas code, you'll find most of them in that thread either posted or linked there.
Alternatively, since Tier Shift was an OMotM(/LCotM?) you can search for it in the main server's GitHub Repository history
Here:
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/commits/master/config/formats.js
This can be done for all the OM/LCotMs (Note that some of the metas have their own mods files too so be sure to add them as well).
Full Tier Shift code from line 322 (Cant link to the line, on phone) here
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Sh...384a31e2fe265b9e1320100717b/config/formats.js

thanks, couldnt find a link on the thread for tier shift, reason i had asked.

 

[Lotus]

I hope I don't sound too greedy, but do suspect votes for Other Metagames count as some sort of a contribution (as in Tiering Contributor)?

 

[Ren]

I hope I don't sound too greedy, but do suspect votes for Other Metagames count as some sort of a contribution (as in Tiering Contributor)?

no :(

 

[Lotus]

I have had some time to take some look at permanent ladder OMs. I have seen one metagame that left me with some questions. To name it, it is 1v1.

As much as I do not want to sound judgmental, I will try making the question as concise as possible. Many jokes about 1v1 from other people aside (the likes of '1v1 is the most competitive' or '1v1 will never be freed'), what makes 1v1 in particular so set apart from other OMs? Is it due to sheer reliance on matchups? Bringing only 3 Pokémon? Or the level of learning curve?

 

[Chloe]

I have had some time to take some look at permanent ladder OMs. I have seen one metagame that left me with some questions. To name it, it is 1v1.

As much as I do not want to sound judgmental, I will try making the question as concise as possible. Many jokes about 1v1 from other people aside (the likes of '1v1 is the most competitive' or '1v1 will never be freed'), what makes 1v1 in particular so set apart from other OMs? Is it due to sheer reliance on matchups? Bringing only 3 Pokémon? Or the level of learning curve?

Nothing really sets it apart in a general sense, it plays a lot differently to other OMs, but this isn't a characteristic solely pertaining to 1v1. The issue a lot of users have however is how prevalent match-up and hax determine the outcome of matches. It's impossible to reliably cover the majority of the metagame with three Pokémon and hence its standing as a competitive format is often questioned. 1v1 players want inclusion in OMPL & OMGS, which they don't have, despite the aforementioned factors. Hence the debate / difference / jokes about "freeing 1v1" are made I suppose. Hopefully I answered your question; I wasn't sure I understood it correctly.

 

[Rumplestiltskin]

May 2018 - Nomination Stage
​

Blacklisted OMs:
- Ubers/UU/LC Versions of Existing Metagames

And yet in a nomination post:

Follow the Leader, Gods and Followers, Partners in Crime, ZU

Isn't ZU the UU version of PU, an existing metagame?
Not saying that I'm personally against ZU being eligible, but this seems inconsistent to me.

 

[The Immortal]

And yet in a nomination post:


Isn't ZU the UU version of PU, an existing metagame?
Not saying that I'm personally against ZU being eligible, but this seems inconsistent to me.

"Metagames" refers to OMs. PU is not only not an OM but ZU exists as its own thread. And you have to look at the reasoning behind the rule. If BH UU, for example, were to win OMotM, it would very likely affect the activity of standard BH ladder as the only people interested in BH UU would be BH players. ZU does not affect the activity of any existing OM ladder as its concept is unrelated.

 

[Slens]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7unratedrandombattle-744784585

Can anyone tell me why Sacred Sword missed on Turn 12?

 

[edudittA]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7unratedrandombattle-744784585

Can anyone tell me why Sacred Sword missed on Turn 12?

Tangled Feet increases evasion when confused

 

[Wahrer]

I was wondering regarding the line between OMs and Pet Mods, although I think it'd probably end up being the latter. I was spitballing a concept for a metagame where the core change is that the type chart is modified. It's arbitrary; two types are combined, a new type is introduced, and a handful of type matchups are adjusted, ex. Bug and Poison having a mutual weakness like in RBY.

While I think you could potentially handwave that as being singular enough to be considered OM territory, the considerations that would have to be done would be similar in scale to the Fairy bump in Gen 6, and thus be considered a Pet Mod. Existing Pokemon would have their types changed, a handful of moves would get the same treatment, possibly a handful of new moves added, etc.