-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Sigilyph
- Thread starter Colonel M
- Start date
Cosmic Power looks enticing, but the thing is, I don't want Shin hanging around for very long. 72/80/80 is just very average if not mediocre. The fact that it can give the middle finger to Entry Hazards is one of its main selling points.
I have no problem sending this thing in, getting a status move off or setting up Screen, then switching out. If your enemy is getting keen to this, blast em with an attack when they try to set up, then get out of there quick. Mind games are gonna be the trick to using this piñata.
I have no problem sending this thing in, getting a status move off or setting up Screen, then switching out. If your enemy is getting keen to this, blast em with an attack when they try to set up, then get out of there quick. Mind games are gonna be the trick to using this piñata.
This thing has seriously been ripping apart teams, even taking on ubers like Dialga, Darkrai, and Deoxys A & S, and and causing many of my opponents to quit mid-battle.
I've been running this set with terrific success
Shinboraa @ Flame Orb
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 Def
Timid (+ Speed, - Attack)
Cosmic Power
Assist Power
Roost
Psycho Shift
Benefits:
Cosmic Power boosts Shinbora's substantial defenses, and even with it's bad typing, Shin is able to take a few hits and Roost back to health. In addition to 90% accurate burn move after flame orb activates, Shin has some significant bulk. But the real threat here is Assist Power. If you're able to survive to get 6 Cosmic boosts, then Assist Power is a base 260 STAB move(!) Combined with awesome boosted defenses and Roost, Shinbora can sweep through an entire OU* team. No joke.
Drawbacks
With most Shinpora movesets, Taunt is going to pose problems. If you only manage to pull off one Cosmic, Assist Power only reaches a worthless 60 BP.
Dark Types unaffected by Assist Power will also get in your way, but burning then stalling with CP/Roost can be surprisingly efficient. Dragon Dance Tyranitar will beat you out every time though.
Whirlwind/Roar is funny. If you suspect one of those, Shift your burn. Then just come right back in. Hippowdon and Skarm don't appreciate the drop in attack, and Shin can come back in without taking entry damage that often goes hand in hand with Wind/Roar.
I've been running this set with terrific success
Shinboraa @ Flame Orb
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 Def
Timid (+ Speed, - Attack)
Cosmic Power
Assist Power
Roost
Psycho Shift
Benefits:
Cosmic Power boosts Shinbora's substantial defenses, and even with it's bad typing, Shin is able to take a few hits and Roost back to health. In addition to 90% accurate burn move after flame orb activates, Shin has some significant bulk. But the real threat here is Assist Power. If you're able to survive to get 6 Cosmic boosts, then Assist Power is a base 260 STAB move(!) Combined with awesome boosted defenses and Roost, Shinbora can sweep through an entire OU* team. No joke.
Drawbacks
With most Shinpora movesets, Taunt is going to pose problems. If you only manage to pull off one Cosmic, Assist Power only reaches a worthless 60 BP.
Dark Types unaffected by Assist Power will also get in your way, but burning then stalling with CP/Roost can be surprisingly efficient. Dragon Dance Tyranitar will beat you out every time though.
Whirlwind/Roar is funny. If you suspect one of those, Shift your burn. Then just come right back in. Hippowdon and Skarm don't appreciate the drop in attack, and Shin can come back in without taking entry damage that often goes hand in hand with Wind/Roar.
I agree, I thought this thing looked really cool too. Great support movepool with crappy defensive stats is kind of weird, though. :0 Is there any way to find out what Miracle Skin does? Maybe our research people can help with that...? Because yeah, Serebii's description of it was really confusing. :\ I'd like to think that it'll be quite a good ability, seeing as Shinpora is (as far as I know) the only thing that gets it. By the sound of it, it might be like a Clear Body clone, which would be kind of useless.
Quick side note, does anyone else think this thing looks like it should have evolved from Xatu? >.> ...or that any other 5th-gen Pokemon look like they should have evolved from pre-existing things too? (Tauros -> Baffuron, Luvdisc -> Mamanbo... srsly, how are they all not evolved from each these guys....?! =___=)
Quick side note, does anyone else think this thing looks like it should have evolved from Xatu? >.> ...or that any other 5th-gen Pokemon look like they should have evolved from pre-existing things too? (Tauros -> Baffuron, Luvdisc -> Mamanbo... srsly, how are they all not evolved from each these guys....?! =___=)
I love this guy's design, and already ran through the ingame with him in my team! Also used him quite a bit in my early PO teams - the 4x fighting resist + SR immunity was what I was looking at mainly, plus the ability to burn physical threats and shut down Technician Breloom without Stone Edge (which was everyone then...now it's more common :() I ran a variation of the Psycho Shift set:
[SET]
move 1: Air Slash
move 2: Roost
move 3: Calm Mind / Light Screen
move 4: Psycho Shift
ability: Magic Guard
items: Flame Orb
nature: Bold
evs: 36 HP / 252 Def / 220 Spe
Much more defensive than anything else in the OP, making use of it's ability to switch in without taking hazard damage and 4x Fighting resist/Ground immunity. With 285 Speed you're sitting above positive base 85s - the only fighters faster are Hitmonlee, Lucario (crunch/extremespeed..), Primeape and Infernape (can't be burnt). The rest of the EVs are piled into defense to ensure that max/max Careful +1, Burnt Roobushin cannot 2hko with Stone Edge/Payback.. at least according to the damage calc I did at the time:
(316*1.5/2)237 Atk vs 284 Def & 294 HP (100 Base Power): 122 - 144 (41.50% - 48.98%)
While an Air Slash back does 41.06% - 49.28%. Decent speed + Air Slash is always fun anyway, so you could get lucky and 2hko it without response if you have some residual damage. Also works against Technician Breloom - burn prevents the Spore, just watch out for those Subbing up and then Swords Dancing... a +2 Adamant Mach Punch does a measly 14.63% - 17.35%, but +2 LO Adamant Stone Edge does have a chance at OHKOing... but you should outspeed and KO by then.
Machamp hits harder than Breloom and usually runs max attack - switch into DynamicPunch and you take 12.59% - 14.97%.. just watch out for Stone Edge or Payback on the switch (68.03% - 80.27%..ouch). Air Slash back to 252 HP Macahmp does 50.00% - 59.38% which isn't hot... but you can Roost against those with Stone Edge...
[SET]
move 1: Air Slash
move 2: Roost
move 3: Calm Mind / Light Screen
move 4: Psycho Shift
ability: Magic Guard
items: Flame Orb
nature: Bold
evs: 36 HP / 252 Def / 220 Spe
Much more defensive than anything else in the OP, making use of it's ability to switch in without taking hazard damage and 4x Fighting resist/Ground immunity. With 285 Speed you're sitting above positive base 85s - the only fighters faster are Hitmonlee, Lucario (crunch/extremespeed..), Primeape and Infernape (can't be burnt). The rest of the EVs are piled into defense to ensure that max/max Careful +1, Burnt Roobushin cannot 2hko with Stone Edge/Payback.. at least according to the damage calc I did at the time:
(316*1.5/2)237 Atk vs 284 Def & 294 HP (100 Base Power): 122 - 144 (41.50% - 48.98%)
While an Air Slash back does 41.06% - 49.28%. Decent speed + Air Slash is always fun anyway, so you could get lucky and 2hko it without response if you have some residual damage. Also works against Technician Breloom - burn prevents the Spore, just watch out for those Subbing up and then Swords Dancing... a +2 Adamant Mach Punch does a measly 14.63% - 17.35%, but +2 LO Adamant Stone Edge does have a chance at OHKOing... but you should outspeed and KO by then.
Machamp hits harder than Breloom and usually runs max attack - switch into DynamicPunch and you take 12.59% - 14.97%.. just watch out for Stone Edge or Payback on the switch (68.03% - 80.27%..ouch). Air Slash back to 252 HP Macahmp does 50.00% - 59.38% which isn't hot... but you can Roost against those with Stone Edge...
I really like this Pokemon, seems like it could be everything Xatu should have been, and judging by the similar style/ concept/ typing/ movepool, thats exactly what GF had in mind. The ability to act both offensively and/ or defensively means it could be very unpredicable. Plus, STAB Flying is probably one of the types that benefits most from Tinted Lens since its such a crummy offensive type usually.
I've been having a great deal of success using a take on an old Claydol spread.
Shinboraa @ Leftovers
Magic Guard
Calm, 156 HP/176 DEF/180 SPATK
Calm Mind
Roost
Air Slash
filler
The spread and nature helps it come in more easily and set up. The filler move can be whatever you want; I run Ice Beam, but Toxic, Charge Beam and Energy Ball are also options (unfortunately he's not winning any awards for his special movepool).
Shinboraa @ Leftovers
Magic Guard
Calm, 156 HP/176 DEF/180 SPATK
Calm Mind
Roost
Air Slash
filler
The spread and nature helps it come in more easily and set up. The filler move can be whatever you want; I run Ice Beam, but Toxic, Charge Beam and Energy Ball are also options (unfortunately he's not winning any awards for his special movepool).
breh
強いだね
the irony that most of these are bred from Xatu is hilarious..
Anyway, this looks like a good set; I don't particularly understand what max speed outruns though. Just aim to outspeed base 95s and also remember to make it 248 EVs so as to have a SR number (you'll have 347 HP vs. 348 HP; the former is better).
Seems like it could be really good in UU, but that it would struggle in OU. Out of curiosity, what are standard switches to this?
You'd get raped by Taunt, and three statuses might be overkill on this one :/ I haven't tested it though so I could be incorrect.
This pokemon bugs me in that it looks incredibly fun to use but the stats are letting me down a little bit. Plus, I hate the design (not that that has competitive value). Seriously, a five point boost in stats to everything and it'd be amazing.
No, you're right. :0 Three statuses ARE overkill-- they'd all be competing with each other, and your opponent could just switch an already-statused Pokemon in while you're trying to status them + attack before Whirlwind. It could really be worn down pretty easily with no means of actually attacking, so it's not very practical... like, at all. Thunder Wave and Burncho shift are fine together, but Shinpora that doesn't defend itself with Screens or even have Roost recovery is gonna struggle to stall out anything with Toxic. Plus there's the Taunt thing. :0
Yeah, I actually like some of the more defensive Psycho Shift sets I'm seeing. Dan Dan/RD's set in particular is probably my favorite defensively; I love the idea of CM Boosting SDef while using Psycho Shift's Burn to protect on the physical side, and Air Slash has nothing immune to it, meaning a sweep is a possibility coming off of that. Offensively, I think he's gonna be more useful with Tinted Lens, but in the meantime, a Choice user with Stealth Rock immunity is by no means bad.
Yeah, I actually like some of the more defensive Psycho Shift sets I'm seeing. Dan Dan/RD's set in particular is probably my favorite defensively; I love the idea of CM Boosting SDef while using Psycho Shift's Burn to protect on the physical side, and Air Slash has nothing immune to it, meaning a sweep is a possibility coming off of that. Offensively, I think he's gonna be more useful with Tinted Lens, but in the meantime, a Choice user with Stealth Rock immunity is by no means bad.
I'm using this guy to play through the game right now, and I gotta say he is pretty awesome. His stats and typing make me a bit weary in a competitive environment however. Psycho Shift is pretty amazing with Flame Orb. I saw people talking about Flame Orb re-activating, however I could have swore it breaks on use. Can anybody confirm or deny this?
With a lot of the listed sets, you're better off just using Clefable.
Shinbora: 72/58/80/103/80/97
Clefable: 95/70/73/85/90/60
The Clef has better defensive stats, access to Encore to ease set-up, Magic Coat to reflect taunt, four less weaknesses (lol), and MG Clef makes any ghost without focus blast pretty useless (Curse/Toxic/WoW null by MG, Shadow Ball/Sneak/Claw null by typing). And Magic Guard + Follow Me in doubles is pretty damn amazing.
That said, Shin has his own niche, particularly through Psycho shifting burns and switching into fighting moves with that 4x res. He's also faster and actually has sweep potential without CM and can pull off a little STAB flinch hax when it must. Without Psycho Shift, the Clef is just plain better though. Even with CM sweep set, Clef is going to last longer therefore being able to get more CMs in. His stab certainly isn't as useful, but gets fire moves to deal with steels and Psycho Shock to do Blissey in. I will say, Roost is a better heal option than Moonlight, but Clef's 95 base HP makes him a decent Wish passer and gets heal bell and/or aromatherapy (lol would work against you if you purposely burned yourself though) if you were going to just use him as a team cleric.
Alakazam supposedly gets Magic Guard through the DW. When that is released, I feel like Shin will get fall out of usage. Other than shifting burn (which if Flame Orb breaks after use, only has so much use) he'll just be a poor man's Alakazam or a poor man's Clefable.
With a lot of the listed sets, you're better off just using Clefable.
Shinbora: 72/58/80/103/80/97
Clefable: 95/70/73/85/90/60
The Clef has better defensive stats, access to Encore to ease set-up, Magic Coat to reflect taunt, four less weaknesses (lol), and MG Clef makes any ghost without focus blast pretty useless (Curse/Toxic/WoW null by MG, Shadow Ball/Sneak/Claw null by typing). And Magic Guard + Follow Me in doubles is pretty damn amazing.
That said, Shin has his own niche, particularly through Psycho shifting burns and switching into fighting moves with that 4x res. He's also faster and actually has sweep potential without CM and can pull off a little STAB flinch hax when it must. Without Psycho Shift, the Clef is just plain better though. Even with CM sweep set, Clef is going to last longer therefore being able to get more CMs in. His stab certainly isn't as useful, but gets fire moves to deal with steels and Psycho Shock to do Blissey in. I will say, Roost is a better heal option than Moonlight, but Clef's 95 base HP makes him a decent Wish passer and gets heal bell and/or aromatherapy (lol would work against you if you purposely burned yourself though) if you were going to just use him as a team cleric.
Alakazam supposedly gets Magic Guard through the DW. When that is released, I feel like Shin will get fall out of usage. Other than shifting burn (which if Flame Orb breaks after use, only has so much use) he'll just be a poor man's Alakazam or a poor man's Clefable.
Right, I checked Miracle Skin's effect in the Research thread... it looks like it grants a 50% chance of immunity to any statuses. Overall, it's pretty much outclassed in every way by Flame Orb+Magic Guard sets, which grant 100% chance of immunity. :0 I really can't think of an instance when you'd want to use Miracle Skin over Magic Guard.
You don't need an SR number considering... ya know... it has Magic Guard. No damage from Rocks anyways.
Am I the only one that sees an Unown-I as this thing's head?
...The first time.
Or if you're not using Burn Orb.
Banryu, how about switching in to sleep/paralysis?
...The first time.
Or if you're not using Burn Orb.
Yeah, sleep and paralysis might be worth it, but then there's the SR problem. :0 Magic Guard does so many helpful things, I think that the 100% chance of stopping those rather outclasses a 50% chance of stopping sleep. In certain situational instances, it could definitely have its uses, yeah, but I'm saying Magic Guard (or even Tinted Lens, if released) is generally much more useful.
I ran an offensive set in PO with great success.
I have max+ Speed to outspeed neutral natured base 100s and with the obligatory Life Orb, Shinpora's offensive power is gigantic. I use Sub to keep Shandera scared, but there may be some other options here.
I have max+ Speed to outspeed neutral natured base 100s and with the obligatory Life Orb, Shinpora's offensive power is gigantic. I use Sub to keep Shandera scared, but there may be some other options here.
How successful was Shinpora in general?
Well it did its job.
Shinpora has a great synergy with Ttar, being immune to Ground and almost immune to Fighting attacks. Psychic is a OHKO for most Riopushins I've faced, as well as basically any other Psychic-weak Fighting type. Shinpora is one of the best Breloom killers I know (after Shandera lol), taking almost no damage from Mach Punch and outspeeding as well as OHKOing it. Also, Shinpora is a full stop for Erufun who cannot touch it in its dreams. It is reliable switch-in to many threats and a great offensive force. I also use Ice Beam to mess with the grounds that bother my Ttar (although, sadly, I have no chance against Landlos and +Spd Garchomp, perhaps I could try Tailwind here). I also had a very good time with Substitute: It allows Shinpora to threaten Shandera (although my LO Psychic usually does only about 70% to a Shandera =/) and not be Pursuit bait.
How about pairing assist power with cosmic power?
breh
強いだね
God damn people, read.
Anyway, been using a CM/CP/Roost/Air Slash Shinboraa @ lefties. You'd think it would be worse than assist power, but it's actually ridiculously easy (mostly due to the poor quality of PO players) to set this up to +6/+6/+6.
I would say that this set would be more effective:
Shinboora @ life orb
Magic guard
Modest
Evs: 252 HP/ 252 SpA/ 4 Spe
Assist power
Cosmic power*
Roost
Air Slash/ Hidden power (fighting)
Cosmic power boosts it's defences so it has some good wall options and then assist power + life orb is just ridiculous
Shinboora @ life orb
Magic guard
Modest
Evs: 252 HP/ 252 SpA/ 4 Spe
Assist power
Cosmic power*
Roost
Air Slash/ Hidden power (fighting)
Cosmic power boosts it's defences so it has some good wall options and then assist power + life orb is just ridiculous