Shedinja (Full Revamp) +

[twash]

Our favourite little bug got Trick and Sucker Punch. Much of it hasn't changed, but I have added some changes and the Trick set and made some changes. No need to change Opinion / Counters, at least not as far as I can see.

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shedinja/

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
item: Focus Sash / Lum Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set takes advantage of Shedinja's only decent stat, Attack, and aims to increase it to higher levels courtesy of Swords Dance. Because of Shedinja's various immunities, it can often manage to pull off a Swords Dance or two, hopefully causing problems for the opponent before switching out. X-Scissor is a good STAB move, and makes use of Swords Dance well. Shadow Sneak is a weaker move with STAB and has a stage one priority. However, Sucker Punch may be used for its higher base power over Shadow Sneak, and will hit Normal-types (scoring an OHKO on Swellow for example), but it is much less reliable.</p>

<p>Due to Shedinja's limited movepool, a status move, either Toxic or Will-O-Wisp makes an appearance to cripple any incoming pokemon that might be carrying a super effective attack. Toxic is generally the superior move against walls that carry a move capable of swatting Shedinja while Will-O-Wisp can effectively neuter any physical threat including what is arguably, Shedinja's greatest threat; Pursuit-users such as Metagross and Scizor.</p>

[SET]
name: Trick
move 1: Trick
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch
move 4: Aerial Ace / Will-O-Wisp / Swords Dance
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Shedinja with Trick can be quite a surprise, and can really stop the opponent's Pokémon. Trick means you can cripple many of its common switch-ins. Heatran and Skarmory won't enjoy Choice Band, nor will Giratina in Ubers. While it doesn't stop them using super effective attacks on Shedinja, it makes them much more predictable, and easy to play around. X-Scissor provides a STAB move that will hurt a few Pokémon when Choice Band is attached, and can be utilized after. Shadow Sneak is again, a reliable move but it falls short of a guarunteed OHKO on Gengar and Azelf when Shedinja holds Choice Band, something Sucker Punch will manage.</p>

<p>The last slot depends on what you need. Aerial Ace will hammer any Heracross coming in for a Guts boost, Pursuiting Shedinja away. Will-o-Wisp gives Shedinja the opportunity to threaten the opponent even more, Tricking one Pokémon then Will-O-Wisping the next switch in. However, Swords Dance can be useful after Trick, and it will offer Shedinja more of a chance of sweeping.</p>

<p>Even though it may seem a gimmick, Protect can also be used on this set. It works brilliantly well in conjunction with Trick, as it furthermore makes it easier to switch in a team mate to counter the opponent. It also means that Shedinja will be able to see if the opponent is predicting a switch and doesn't use a super effective move, which means Shedinja can then stay in with impunity until they switch, due to the choice item.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Heal Block
move 4: Shadow Sneak / X-Scissor / Sucker Punch
item: Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Even with nothing to pass, Baton Pass is a completely viable move on Shedinja as it allows it to scout for counters, and also the chance to offer a safe switch-in for a team mate, giving you a more favourable match up.</p>

<p>Toxic is a good way for Shedinja to cause damage, without it, Shedinja may struggle outside of using entry hazards, causing damage due to Shedinja's knack for forcing switches. Heal Block with Toxic means the opponent cannot use Rest or any other healing more, and therefore cannot stall Shedinja out of PP.</p>

<p>However, Poison or Steel-type Pokémon, as well as those with the Immunity ability, will be unaffected by Toxic, effectively stopping Shedinja cold. With Baton Pass, Shedinja can immediately retreat and bring in a suitable counter for free, such as Dugtrio or Magnezone. This pair can come in handy as Magnezone can trap and kill most Steel-types, while Dugtrio's STAB Earthquake hits Poison and Steel-types for super effective damage.</p>

<p>Will-O-Wisp is an option over Toxic for the aforementioned Steel and Poison-types but the process will be much longer and more arduous as a burn's damage is constant. However any offensive move, particularly Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch or X-Scissor may be used in its place if you are afraid of Taunt. Even specialized Hidden Powers can be used to deal damage to specific users of Taunt (such as Hidden Power Electric for Gyarados).</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Shedinja has a couple of other nifty tools at hand, but many of these are situational.</p>

<p>Natural Gift with the appropriate berry is a very workable option for Shedinja, considering its limited movepool. For example, Natural Gift with a Ganlon Berry is almost a guaranteed OHKO on an incoming no HP / Defense Rayquaza, provided that you predict correctly. However, this means it won't be able to hold a Lum Berry or Focus Sash, meaning that it will only be likely to work as Rayquaza switches in to Shedinja.</p>

<p>Protect can also work on other sets bar Trick, although generally there are better options. It means Shedinja can scout for moves that would otherwise be fatal to it, and works nicely in tandem with Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, to quickly reduce the opponent's health.</p>

<p>Bug Bite can ruin any Pokémon planning on using pinch berries, especially in Ubers where it is commonly used.</p>

<p>With a Jolly nature, Shedinja achieves enough Speed to make use of Agility. From this point on it can attempt to sweep, or it can Grudge away one important attack. Note that Shedinja can only have Agility, Swords Dance, OR Baton Pass on a set at the same time. Any combination of the three is impossible to obtain and is therefore illegal.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Due to Shedinja having 1 HP, most of the time you will be using Attack, Special Attack, or Speed EVs. Generally, you shouldn't be using special attacks on Shedinja, so maxing out Attack and Speed EVs is all but required. The extra 4 EVs should go into one of the defenses to strengthen a Baton Passed Substitute.</p>

 

[kd24]

how about a cb set?

 

[twash]

There already is one..lol

Although it does need updating, "A simple Choice Bander, it gets in somewhat easily thanks to Wonder Guard, then hits whatever comes in next as hard as it can. Choose your pick for the last slot." as Set Comment is pretty poor length and quality. (No offense whoever wrote it!)

 

[kd24]

I actually meant a CB set with Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch / X-Scissor / Return (unless it gets trick)

 

[Venom]

Shedinja does get Trick...

 

[kd24]

i feel like a post whore but yeah, definitely would need a Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch / X-Scissor / Trick CB set added because of Trick.

 

[twash]

Whoops, read it wrong on RB Golbat's thread. I'll add a Trick set too :) Cheers guys.

KD24 why would it use Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch? I would prefer other moves rather than both these two..

 

[Venom]

I agree with Twash_Man, no need for both, and a CB Trick Shedinja sounds good !_!

 

[Great Sage]

Shadow Sneak vs. Sucker Punch is almost literally what the slash was made for.

 

[Colonel M]

Although Shadow Sneak should be the main option with Sucker Punch in the slash. I feel that Sucker Punch, despite how useful it is, leaves Shedinja susceptible to switches, phazing, or even crippling with status. Choice Band also seems acceptable with Shadow Sneak / X-Scissor / Sucker Punch (or Shadow Claw) / Trick. BUT you must mention that extreme caution must be made when you're using Trick. Obtaining Life Orb could be something that Shedinja won't like at all and might be forced to Trick again. It also prevents the extra survival that Shedinja could use with Focus Sash.

I've seen an interesting set that was used as a lead and other than the usual Tyranitar and Hippowdon it works alright: Trick / Will-O-Wisp / Shadow Sneak (or Sucker Punch or Shadow Claw) / X-Scissor @ Focus Sash. Might be worth a mention at the very least?

Another thing that I would like to be tested: Agility / Shadow Claw / X-Scissor / Filler. Its Speed is horrible but in UU it could work since a lot of Pokemon won't hit Sheddy anyways sometimes (unless they're carrying those threatening moves).

 

[cim]

I thought a Swords Dance Shadow Sneak outpowered a Jolly Agility Shadow Claw, making that set not as attractive. Grudge would make nice filler, though, I guess.

Sucker Punch is a little overrated on Sheddy tbh.

 

[Imran]

I agree with Chris is me, I don't really see what Sucker Punch does over Shadow Sneak to be honest. It has a bit less base power but is a lot less reliable, it is a slash at best. Trick however does deserve its own set, Thank goodness it got it as it would only have been a small revamp.

 

[twash]

I think you have to remember, it isn't just "wow its effectively 20 base power higher after STAB", the point is its doing 133% of the damage that Shadow Sneak does. It's the same jump percentage wise between a 90 base power to 120 base power move.

However reliable, it still does 133% of the damage that Shadow Sneak does (after STAB, providing no other effects). For this reason alone it should be slashed in my opinion. It reminds me a bit of "Hydro Pump or Surf?", with Hydro Pump doing 126%~ damage of what Surf does, yet is a lot less reliable (I know this is different as it is Shedinja, but nevertheless it is still 1/3 extra damage). Either way I feel it should be slashed, with a thorough explanation of the advantages and disadvantages of both.

In the process of revamping the whole thing, a lot of it could be changed anyway.

 

[Havak]

Shedinja @ Choice Band
Adamant nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
~ Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch
~ X-Scissor
~ Aerial Ace / Will-O-Wisp / Swords Dance
~ Shadow Claw / Trick

Very slashy... but I think all the options there are worthwhile. If you run Trick, you have the option of Having Swords Dance ready to abuse your priority move with even higher Attack. Could probably get away with just mentioning most of that in Set Comments though, and just give Return a note for the hell of it despite it not hitting many things too note worthy for more damage.

 

[Colonel M]

Yeah but Hydro Pump doesn't rely on your opponent attacking. Sucker Punch, on the other hand, does. Unless its something like Gengar attacking with Shadow Ball and such it really just isn't worth it. Even I would attempt to use Leech Seed, Will-O-Wisp, or any other moves that would cripple Shedinja before resorting to attacking (due to Focus Sash).

 

[twash]

All done (sorry for delay, had exams recently)..

Anyway, I haven't done Opinion / Counters, it looks pretty fine as it is, unless anybody opposes?

 

[Colloquy]

Our favourite little bug got Trick and Sucker Punch. Much of it hasn't changed, but I have added some changes and the Trick set and made some changes. No need to change Opinion / Counters, at least not as far as I can see.

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shedinja/

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
item: Focus Sash / Lum Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set takes advantage of Shedinja's only useable stat, Attack, and aims to increase it to higher levels courtesy of Swords Dance. Thanks to Shedinja's various immunities, it can often manage to pull off a Swords Dance or two, hopefully causing problems for the opponent before switching out. X-Scissor is a good STAB move, and makes use of Swords Dance well. Shadow Sneak is a weaker move with STAB and has a stage one priority. Sucker Punch may be used for its higher base power over Shadow Sneak, but it is much less reliable.</p>

<p>Due to Shedinja's limited movepool, a status move, either Toxic or Will-O-Wisp makes an appearance to cripple any incoming pokemon that might be carrying a super effective attack. Toxic is generally the superior move against walls that carry a move capable of swatting Shedinja while Will-O-Wisp can effectively neuter any physical threat including what is arguably, Shedinja's greatest threat; Pursuit-users such as Metagross and Scizor.</p>

[SET]
name: Trick
move 1: Trick
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch
move 4: Aerial Ace / Will-o-Wisp / Swords Dance
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Shedinja with Trick can be quite a surprise, and can really stop the opponent's Pokémon. Trick means you can cripple many of its common switch-ins. Heatran and Skarmory won't enjoy having a Choice Band, nor will Giratina in Ubers. While it doesn't stop them using super effective attacks on Shedinja, it makes them much more predictable, and easy to play around. X-Scissor provides a STAB move that will hurt a few Pokémon when Choice Band is attached, and can be utilized after. Shadow Sneak is again, a reliable move but it falls short of a guarunteed OHKO on Gengar and Azelf when Shedinja holds Choice Band, something Sucker Punch will manage.</p>

<p>The last slot depends on what you need. Aerial Ace will hammer any Heracross coming in for a Guts boost, which will then Pursuit Shedinja away. Will-O-Wisp gives Shedinja the opportunity to threaten the opponent even more, Tricking one Pokémon then Will-O-Wisping the next switch in. However, Swords Dance can be useful after Trick, and it will offer Shedinja more of a chance of sweeping.</p>

<p>Even though it may seem a gimmick, Protect can also be used on this set. It works brilliantly well in conjunction with Trick, as it furthermore makes it easier to switch in a team mate to counter the opponent. It also means that Shedinja will be able to see if the opponent is predicting a switch and doesn't use a super effective move, which means Shedinja can then stay in with impunity until they switch, due to the choice item.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Heal Block
move 4: Shadow Sneak / X-Scissor / Sucker Punch
item: Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Even with nothing to pass, Baton Pass is a completely viable move on Shedinja as it allows it to scout for counters, and also the chance to offer a safe switch-in for a team mate, giving you a more favourable match up.</p>

<p>Toxic is a good way for Shedinja to cause damage, without it, Shedinja may struggle outside of using entry hazards, causing damage due to Shedinja's knack for forcing switches. Heal Block with Toxic means the opponent cannot use Rest or any other healing more, and therefore cannot stall Shedinja out of PP.</p>

<p>However, Poison or Steel-type Pokémon, as well as those with the Immunity ability, will be unaffected by Toxic, effectively stopping Shedinja cold. With Baton Pass, Shedinja can immediately retreat and bring in a suitable counter for free, such as Dugtrio or Magnezone. This pair can come in handy as Magnezone can trap and kill most Steel-types, while Dugtrio's STAB Earthquake hits Poison and Steel-types for super effective damage.</p>

<p>Will-O-Wisp is an option over Toxic for the aforementioned Steel and Poison-types but the process will be much longer and more arduous as a burn's damage is constant. However any offensive move, particularly Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch or X-Scissor may be used in its place if you are afraid of Taunt. Even specialized Hidden Powers can be used to deal damage to specific users of Taunt (such as Hidden Power Electric for Gyarados).</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Shedinja has a couple of other nifty tools at hand, but many of these are situational.</p>

<p>Natural Gift with the appropriate berry is a very workable option for Shedinja, considering its limited movepool. For example, Natural Gift with a Ganlon Berry is almost a guaranteed OHKO on an incoming no HP / Defense Rayquaza, provided that you predict correctly. However, this means it won't be able to hold a Lum Berry or Focus Sash, meaning that it will only be likely to work as Rayquaza switches in to Shedinja.</p>

<p>Protect can also work on other sets bar Trick, although generally there are better options. It means Shedinja can scout for moves that would otherwise be fatal to it, and works nicely in tandem with Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, to quickly reduce the opponent's health.</p>

<p>Bug Bite can ruin any Pokémon planning on using pinch berries, especially in Ubers where it is commonly used.</p>

<p>With a Jolly nature, Shedinja achieves enough Speed to make use of Agility. From this point on it can attempt to sweep, or it can Grudge away one important attack. Note that Shedinja can only have Agility, Swords Dance, OR Baton Pass on a set at the same time. Any combination of the three is impossible to obtain and is therefore illegal.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Due to Shedinja having 1 HP, any EVs not going into Attack, Special Attack, or Speed are useless. Generally, you shouldn't be using special attacks on Shedinja, so generally 252 Atk / 252 Spe is the way to go.</p>

Underline = This section doesn't sound good

I'll do the rest later. You weren't the same with Will-O-Wisps...

 

[XIIIII]

Hmm, I, personally have had a lot of success with Sucker Punch.
In UU, I have seen lots of Swellows switch in against Sheddy, and
a SD+ Sucker Punch will always OHKO them after orb+SR.

 

[Havak]

You put Will-o-Wisp in the Choice Band set, instead of Will-O-Wisp.

 

[diinbong]

Sucker Punch probably works better with Lum Berry while Shadow Sneak with Focus Sash. I would say Sucker Punch is the better option for being able to OHKO Swellow alone. Anyway...you still aren't consistent with Will-O-Wisp's capitalization. Also, in regards to the EVs section, you should mention that using defense EVs should only be used when being passed a sub and how that isn't a bad option. Also, you used "generally" twice in the last sentence.

 

[Caelum]

edit: horribly situation but I guess the 4 defense EVs help if you are passed a Substitute. Explain that in the EV section, otherwise it looks wasteful.

 

[twash]

Updated.

 

[gorm]

last section:

Generally, you shouldn't be using special attacks on Shedinja, so maxing out Attack and Speed EVs is all but required. The extra 4 EVs should go into one of the defenses to strengthen a Baton Passed Substitute.

 

[twash]

Cheers gorm, updated :)