Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets

[based_shr00m]

Is it intentional that hippowdown can be generated with whirlwind but no hazards?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Is it intentional that hippowdown can be generated with whirlwind but no hazards?

yes

 

[Bruh Wobuffet]

why this AV fargiraf had no psychic stab, a psychic type without psychic stab but only a normal one, I actually checked the movesets possible and see that an AV set can have movesets from my screenshots but it doesn't make sense logically
(ignore my google tabs)

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

why this AV fargiraf had no psychic stab, a psychic type without psychic stab but only a normal one, I actually checked the movesets possible and see that an AV set can have movesets from my screenshots but it doesn't make sense logically
(ignore my google tabs)

Intentional.

 

[dyrana]

I just now had a Clodsire with earthquake, recover, spikes and toxic spikes. While EQ plus toxic spikes is a pretty neat way to get Tspikes up and deal with ground types, it left me with a clodsire who had no way of touching any non-grounded opponents. As far as I'm aware most sets in randbats are only completely unable to touch mons with multiple immunities. I don't think it's necessarily a bad set, but it's something that I thought I'd flag.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

I just now had a Clodsire with earthquake, recover, spikes and toxic spikes. While EQ plus toxic spikes is a pretty neat way to get Tspikes up and deal with ground types, it left me with a clodsire who had no way of touching any non-grounded opponents. As far as I'm aware most sets in randbats are only completely unable to touch mons with multiple immunities. I don't think it's necessarily a bad set, but it's something that I thought I'd flag.

clodsire's not the strongest thing in the world, i think this is fine.

 

[Bruh Wobuffet]

another question, sorry if im annoying but azelf lead with sash can get no stealth rock, logically your sash lead should have support moves but here it had only taunt which is barely even a support move
edit: i had bad screenshots but the last move is explosion

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

another question, sorry if im annoying but azelf lead with sash can get no stealth rock, logically your sash lead should have support moves but here it had only taunt which is barely even a support move
edit: i had bad screenshots but the last move is explosion

I suppose it would be feasible to enforce Stealth Rock on Fast Support pokemon in the lead slot, but I feel this would affect many pokemon negatively. I'll have to think about it.

 

[Morkal]

I wrote a 5500-word post on using Spidops in OU with a specific set, and DaddyBuzzwole suggested I submit it here, so that's what I'm gonna do!

I won't copy over all of the information here; I'll just link the post here if you want to read the whole thing; this is just going to be a brief overview of what this set does and why testing it in OU has shown me that this is likely one of the most consistently performing ways to use Spidops in any high-end metagame. I believe this Spidops set should be considered for addition to the Random Battle set pool!

Spidops - Priority Band Stakeout (Tera Dark)

Spidops @ Choice Band
Ability: Stakeout
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Throat Chop
- U-Turn
- Sticky Web​

• Spidops has the single strongest priority move (Stakeout STAB Choice Band boosted First Impression) in the entirety of OU. It can OHKO Pokemon switching out and actively punishes constant switching as it becomes a risk. Stakeout is an ability that doubles the power of any moves Spidops uses on a Pokemon that is switching in. (If you don't believe me about how insane its power is, I'll put two damage calculations here; the rest of the damage calculations are in the linked Spidops OU post if you want to see more, my documentation was extensive).

252+ Atk Choice Band Stakeout Spidops First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 361-426 (101.1 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakeout Spidops First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 361-426 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO​

• It has solid defensive utility with HP investment thanks to 92/86 defensive bulk and an interesting defensive typing that grants it crucial resistances to Ground, Fighting, and Grass-type moves.
• Stakeout additionally boosts both Throat Chop and U-Turn, meaning that if Spidops hits any switching Pokemon, it's going to be hit hard.
• Tera Dark boosts the power of Throat Chop and, especially when in a pinch, gives Spidops crucial resistances to Ghost and Dark-type moves, along with a useful immunity to Psychic-type moves.
• Access to Sticky Web allows Spidops to establish additional speed control for your team and is arguably the most useful Hazard Spidops can use for its specific niche.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you'll consider adding this Spidops set to Random Battles!

 

[RSB]

I wrote a 5500-word post on using Spidops in OU with a specific set, and DaddyBuzzwole suggested I submit it here, so that's what I'm gonna do!

I won't copy over all of the information here; I'll just link the post here if you want to read the whole thing; this is just going to be a brief overview of what this set does and why testing it in OU has shown me that this is likely one of the most consistently performing ways to use Spidops in any high-end metagame. I believe this Spidops set should be considered for addition to the Random Battle set pool!

Spidops - Priority Band Stakeout (Tera Dark)

Spidops @ Choice Band
Ability: Stakeout
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Throat Chop
- U-Turn
- Sticky Web​

• Spidops has the single strongest priority move (Stakeout STAB Choice Band boosted First Impression) in the entirety of OU. It can OHKO Pokemon switching out and actively punishes constant switching as it becomes a risk. Stakeout is an ability that doubles the power of any moves Spidops uses on a Pokemon that is switching in. (If you don't believe me about how insane its power is, I'll put two damage calculations here; the rest of the damage calculations are in the linked Spidops OU post if you want to see more, my documentation was extensive).

252+ Atk Choice Band Stakeout Spidops First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 361-426 (101.1 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakeout Spidops First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 361-426 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO​

• It has solid defensive utility with HP investment thanks to 92/86 defensive bulk and an interesting defensive typing that grants it crucial resistances to Ground, Fighting, and Grass-type moves.
• Stakeout additionally boosts both Throat Chop and U-Turn, meaning that if Spidops hits any switching Pokemon, it's going to be hit hard.
• Tera Dark boosts the power of Throat Chop and, especially when in a pinch, gives Spidops crucial resistances to Ghost and Dark-type moves, along with a useful immunity to Psychic-type moves.
• Access to Sticky Web allows Spidops to establish additional speed control for your team and is arguably the most useful Hazard Spidops can use for its specific niche.

Thank you for reading, and I hope you'll consider adding this Spidops set to Random Battles!

So you may not understand why we can't just add sets to random battles like this. All pokemon in random battles are generated with 84 evs across the board except for trick room and gyro ball mons which get min speed investment and special attackers that get 0 atk for foul play. Natures are all also neutral. Pokemon also don't come with an item specific to a set. Items generate based on the moves rolled from that mons movepool of predetermined moves. After the moves have been rolled the item generates based of what moves were rolled such as a common thing being that 3 attack and one set up move move will usually roll Life Orb. The only times Choice items are rolled is with 4 attacking moves so having sticky web would give it another item. That being said specific attacking sets such as these have much less power in rands due to not being tailored for an attacking role like this.

Lvl 91 84 Atk Choice Band Spidops First Impression vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 Def Garchomp: 135-159 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO

With this kind of damage output Spidops is a much more useful pokemon when its just a hazard setter/phazer instead of locking itself into First Impression or just being a U-Turn-er.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

With this kind of damage output Spidops is a much more useful pokemon when its just a hazard setter/phazer instead of locking itself into First Impression or just being a U-Turn-er.

i want to chime in here by saying i've played over a thousand random battles (and cracked top 500 at one point, so i'm not just fighting against low-ladder button clickers) and not once have i seen a spidops click memento, so i would much rather recommend at least u-turn over memento on it. also, even without the evs, a banded stakeout set might actually put in work considering that people like to switch to a hazard remover or magic bouncer in preparation for webs whenever spidops is on the field (or a ghost-type setup sweeper since spidops is currently free setup for them and even if it clicks memento, which it never does, all it's doing is delaying the inevitable). i'd definitely urge you to consider adding more than spidops's current role of "set a single hazard and get 2hko'd"

The only times Choice items are rolled is with 4 attacking moves

or trick, or switcheroo, or shed tail, and i think i've also seen a couple with parting shot

 

[Lady Writer]

banded stakeout is never going to be a thing on spidops, the hazard stacking set is better in 99.9% of matchups. memento fits better on the fully supportive set bc you’re just trying to get up hazards then get in your powerful mons. you’re suggesting a very gimmicky set just because you like using it for fun in a different tier when in reality it’s just not going to be very good in rands

 

[LocalMetagross]

Why does Enamorous have Superpower on a Specs set? Without contrary it doesn’t make sense to have a physical move on a set where you can’t switch moves, and it gets focus blast for special coverage anyways.

 

[Turtlek]

I would want to offer Heatproof as an option for Bronzong. I believe it's an ability that's as good as Levitate, and the unpredictability factor is a large buff to Bronzong

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Why does Enamorous have Superpower on a Specs set? Without contrary it doesn’t make sense to have a physical move on a set where you can’t switch moves, and it gets focus blast for special coverage anyways.

This will be fixed.

I would want to offer Heatproof as an option for Bronzong. I believe it's an ability that's as good as Levitate, and the unpredictability factor is a large buff to Bronzong

No.

i want to chime in here by saying i've played over a thousand random battles (and cracked top 500 at one point, so i'm not just fighting against low-ladder button clickers) and not once have i seen a spidops click memento, so i would much rather recommend at least u-turn over memento on it. also, even without the evs, a banded stakeout set might actually put in work considering that people like to switch to a hazard remover or magic bouncer in preparation for webs whenever spidops is on the field (or a ghost-type setup sweeper since spidops is currently free setup for them and even if it clicks memento, which it never does, all it's doing is delaying the inevitable). i'd definitely urge you to consider adding more than spidops's current role of "set a single hazard and get 2hko'd"

or trick, or switcheroo, or shed tail, and i think i've also seen a couple with parting shot

We aren't adding choice band spidops. U-turn over memento will be considered, but i've personally had success with memento.

 

[thatcameguy]

i find tera psychic to be bad on polteageist, you gain weaknesses and lose immunities for a stronger stored power which i don't think is a good trade since you still lose to every dark type. if you want to have a set without tera blast i think fairy would be a better option here since it gives you resist to dark and neutral to ghost

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

i find tera psychic to be bad on polteageist, you gain weaknesses and lose immunities for a stronger stored power which i don't think is a good trade since you still lose to every dark type. if you want to have a set without tera blast i think fairy would be a better option here since it gives you resist to dark and neutral to ghost

okay so doing the next update and this is actually not gonna fly; tera psychic is required for non-Tera Blast polt to actually always have Stored Power. If other teras are added, you'll get sets without it. Not worth it.

 

[duck]

got a shell armor Dreadnaw, I don't think that's ever been viable

 

[pokeblade101]

got a shell armor Dreadnaw, I don't think that's ever been viable

You most likely got it because you have Shell Smash, Liquidation, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. Therefore nothing for strong jaw to boost. This is the next best ability

EDIT: There could be an argument for swift swim actually

 

[platinumCheesecake]

You most likely got it because you have Shell Smash, Liquidation, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. Therefore nothing for strong jaw to boost. This is the next best ability

EDIT: There could be an argument for swift swim actually

I think given the fact that drednaw is in that position where it only ever needs to take a singular hit and then try to win would suggest Swift Swim to be slightly better, but that's not really controllable with how our ability generation works. If Shell Armor is rated significantly higher than Swift Swim in the ability generation tiering, Drednaw simply defaults to it. And because neither of these abilities are honestly super impactful for drednaw anyway, it's probably best to just leave it be and not add unnecessary coding burden for the incredibly rare cases where dred doesn't get strong jaw and has a need to run swift swim.

 

[pokeblade101]

You most likely got it because you have Shell Smash, Liquidation, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. Therefore nothing for strong jaw to boost. This is the next best ability

I think given the fact that drednaw is in that position where it only ever needs to take a singular hit and then try to win would suggest Swift Swim to be slightly better, but that's not really controllable with how our ability generation works. If Shell Armor is rated significantly higher than Swift Swim in the ability generation tiering, Drednaw simply defaults to it. And because neither of these abilities are honestly super impactful for drednaw anyway, it's probably best to just leave it be and not add unnecessary coding burden for the incredibly rare cases where dred doesn't get strong jaw and has a need to run swift swim.

I agree with this but just a correction that it isn't rare for drednaw not to get Strong Jaw. It's around 50% of not getting Strong Jaw (only one move in its pool is boosted by it)

 

[Celever]

got a shell armor Dreadnaw, I don't think that's ever been viable

I think given the fact that drednaw is in that position where it only ever needs to take a singular hit and then try to win would suggest Swift Swim to be slightly better, but that's not really controllable with how our ability generation works. If Shell Armor is rated significantly higher than Swift Swim in the ability generation tiering, Drednaw simply defaults to it. And because neither of these abilities are honestly super impactful for drednaw anyway, it's probably best to just leave it be and not add unnecessary coding burden for the incredibly rare cases where dred doesn't get strong jaw and has a need to run swift swim.

I agree with this but just a correction that it isn't rare for drednaw not to get Strong Jaw. It's around 50% of not getting Strong Jaw (only one move in its pool is boosted by it)

Honestly I think there's a higher likelihood of Drednaw blocking a crit that would have mattered than the opponent rolling rain anyway. Drednaw already gets Swift Swim if you have rain on your own team. It should definitely stay as it is.

 

[BlazeOfVictory]

imo Coalossal would be a lot more consistent if it always had at least one hazard (or always had spikes) - getting edge/overheat/rapidspin/wow makes it feel really passive and useless into a bunch of mons, since it doesnt hit very hard for neutral damage and has to rely on inconsistent moves to do so

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

imo Coalossal would be a lot more consistent if it always had at least one hazard (or always had spikes) - getting edge/overheat/rapidspin/wow makes it feel really passive and useless into a bunch of mons, since it doesnt hit very hard for neutral damage and has to rely on inconsistent moves to do so

Unfortunately, this isn't feasible unless you remove will-o-wisp entirely, which seems like it would do more harm than good in the long run. I also don't believe coalossal needs hazards to function; it works just fine as a remover and defensive pivot. Removers are valuable.

 

[Lady Writer]

is there a need for cresselia to have both psychic and psyshock as potential moves? i've already experienced myself or witnessed a cress losing a calm mind war due to carrying psychic over psyshock, and it just seems pretty silly that it would be able to have psychic in that situation when psyshock is just as good in most situations with the added benefit of being able to do better vs other calm mind mons. If there isn't a great reason for psychic to be kept as a potential moveslot, i think it would make more sense to have psyshock as its only stab