Resource Scarlet & Violet BSS Discussion

[Havocreator7]

You could try some kind of weather and a move that bypasses evasion? Thinking Thunder/Hurricane/Blizzard in their respective weathers. Obviously it's a funky solution, but something like specs Pelipper Hurricane could help and isn't useless otherwise.

 

[Omastar68]

That's true! I thought of that, except I need to bypass sub, and idk if any weather Mon like that gets a way to use their no acc check move through a sub. I guess there's thunder plus infiltrator pult


EDIT: After a sub drif faints to thunder if it's frail or I'm terad. So on a rain team(pult lacks rain dance) could work. It's kinda reaching, and goes back to the original question of y/n on lock on, as pult gets that

It's a niche thing, but I don't want to be totally open to a Mon I'm using, seems wrong. For now bombirdier seems fine. I haven't had the match up in my 3 little games, so we'll see

 

[KikeKart [SPA]]

In case someone is tired of using Palafin's humongous 160 Attack stats and wants to take a funnier approach, it is a nice special lure. Forget about mimicking DC's Superman, Marvel's Black Bolt is the way to go:

Palafin @ Choice Specs
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Normal
Rash Nature
- Boomburst
- Hydro Pump
- Jet Punch / Wave Crash
- Flip Turn / Wave Crash

Put it alongside strong physical attackers, and enjoy removing their intended walls in 1-2 hits. STAB moves only because let's admit it, 106 SpA is what it is. OK, Aura Sphere OHKOes Kingambit, so what. Wave Crash is an option because Wave Crash, doesn't synergize well with Specs but you don't want to be the one whose Palafin lost against Assault Vest Sylveon (non AV Sylveon is 2HKOed by Boomburst, just saying). Naive nature doesn't lose many KOes, but yeah, Rash goes brr. Some calcs for your joice:

Is Choice Specs Palafin worth trying?

VS Amoonguss
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 202-238 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 142-168 (64.2 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

VS Toxapex
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 126-148 (80.2 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 96-114 (61.1 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

VS Dondozo
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Dondozo: 175-207 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Dondozo: 118-139 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

VS Skeledirge
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 214-253 (101.4 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 220 HP / 108+ SpD Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 172-204 (83 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Hydro Pump vs. 220 HP / 108+ SpD Skeledirge: 270-320 (130.4 - 154.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS Rotom-Wash
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Wash: 160-189 (101.9 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Rotom-Wash: 126-148 (80.2 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 118-139 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Steel Rotom-Wash: 93-111 (59.2 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

VS Garganacl
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tera Water Garganacl: 144-171 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Garganacl: 132-156 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Ghost Garganacl: 103-123 (49.7 - 59.4%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

VS Corviknight
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 153-180 (74.6 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tera Flying Corviknight: 193-228 (94.1 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

VS random bulky attackers
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kingambit: 102-121 (49.2 - 58.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Baxcalibur: 129-153 (58.1 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 144-171 (88.3 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 136-162 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With a Mild nature, it can take Flutter Mane 1-on-1 due to Jet Punch priority!
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Normal Palafin-Hero: 141-166 (80.5 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Jet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 82-97 (63 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Compared to other potential Tera Normal Boomburst users, Noivern is less strong and Toxtricity is slower. And both are clear special sweepers, so the luring effect does not apply. Yes, reducing Jet Punch's strength hurts. And yes, it is true that some of those defensive foes can be whittled down by the Bulk Up set. But that leaves the door opened for random secondary effects, Dondozo landing that nasty Fissure...

 

[Omastar68]

That seems clever. What about Grass Knot? Originally I had some interest in mixed Palafin to use that for Gastrodon(though that's not common anymore...and you show Dondozo is typically handled.)

 

[KikeKart [SPA]]

That seems clever. What about Grass Knot? Originally I had some interest in mixed Palafin to use that for Gastrodon(though that's not common anymore...and you show Dondozo is typically handled.)

On paper it looks the perfect option for clearing Dondozo, but it is not really useful. It is extremely tailored to deal with Dondozo, and doesn't accomplish much more than Boomburst. 2HKOes AV variants just like Boomburst, and only havs a 31.3% of OHKO on non-AV ones:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Dondozo: 200-236 (88.4 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Dondozo: 136-160 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Dondozo: 124-146 (54.8 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Dondozo: 108-127 (47.7 - 56.1%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO

Sure, Grass Knot allows you to comfortably use a Naive nature if you need the extra speed without losing the ensured 2HKO, but Boomburst already has a healthy 84% chance of doing so. About Gastrodon, well, I don't know which was the standard set for it, if it preferred special or physical bulk. A full specially defensive variant, which stat-wise seems the natural way to go, is 2HKOed by either Grass Knot or Boomburst. A full physically defensive variant cannot withstand Grass Knot, true, but Boomburst still holds a 43.8% chance of accomplishing that:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 160-192 (73.3 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 139-165 (63.7 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 228-272 (104.5 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Normal Palafin-Hero Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 198-234 (90.8 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

So I'm a bit skeptical of using a moveslot for Grass Knot that can be occupied by something way more useful, like Jet Punch or Wave Crash. In this regard, I mentioned Aura Sphere for Kingambit because, in that case, it really achieves something that neither Hydro Pump nor Boomburst (unless King goes tera Flying) do, which is getting the OHKO on non-AV sets and having a solid 87.5% chance on AV. Yet, I would prefer sticking to the original moves I mentioned.

 

[Omastar68]

I see! Shame. Well, I wonder how it'd go in a team.

 

[Ast0rga]

I find it interesting how different a meta is going from 6v6 to 3v3 even if both are Singles, even if you don't take into account the clauses/ban differences. I can take a perfectly functional OU meta team from my game and join a ranked battle, and then have no idea what to do.
Another reason why I don't play VGC, I just don't know how the "pick some mons and leave out the rest" decision-making works.

 

[Magcargo]

I find it interesting how different a meta is going from 6v6 to 3v3 even if both are Singles, even if you don't take into account the clauses/ban differences. I can take a perfectly functional OU meta team from my game and join a ranked battle, and then have no idea what to do.
Another reason why I don't play VGC, I just don't know how the "pick some mons and leave out the rest" decision-making works.

You'd be surprised by how similar some elements of the meta are to OU. Several Pokemon like Garganacl, Skeledirge, etc. run similar sets to the ones they use in OU (one of the most notable ones I saw was Tera Fire Espathra). Lots of interactions are pretty similar to OU too, like making general reads to punish switches / guarantee outcomes in your favor (the one I like doing is using Tera Blast Water w/ Scizor on Flutter Mane either predicting it to switch out into a Fire Type or go Tera Fire itself). The main difference is that games are significantly faster + there is some additional element of surprise since you don't know what you're opponent brought to the game. Switching also feels noticably weaker. I think this is a good thing in some ways because it opens up the potential ways to deal with some of the OP threats in the meta like Flutter Mane to things like AV users, Sash Users, etc. esp since the opponents options for dealing w/ a potential counters are more limited than OU (you have less than half of the teammates to switch into + Entry hazards though good, aren't as big of a limiting factor to counters).

These are just my first impressions though, just started playing the other day, so maybe these are noob takes.

 

[Omastar68]

I'm kinda unsure what to do. More than 2 weeks ago(the required wait period) I posted an RMT. Even now I'm still using the exact same team though. I want some input on the team, but have already bumped the RMT the 1 allotted time, and don't really wanna just re-post it even though seemingly I could.

The team is Hatterene, Drifblim, Alomomola, Annihilape, Bellibolt, Grimmsnarl. Can edit in a pokepaste if it's easier than looking at my RMT. It does fine, pretty back and forth. Not really winning or losing much more than the other(I have more losses total, probably from earlier stuff though.)

 

[furyofyuriy]

I find it interesting how different a meta is going from 6v6 to 3v3 even if both are Singles, even if you don't take into account the clauses/ban differences. I can take a perfectly functional OU meta team from my game and join a ranked battle, and then have no idea what to do.
Another reason why I don't play VGC, I just don't know how the "pick some mons and leave out the rest" decision-making works.

It comes down too 3 simple concepts. 1) The best lead, 2) the key enemy threat, and 3) your win condition. For point 1, the lead is one of the biggest factors. In 6v6, the lead is more obvious, typically between 1 or 2 mons. However in 3v3, since you only have 3 mons too work with, the lead is more crucial. If a mon is good at stacking hazards like Glimorra, thats an obvious lead. Its so obvious that often people put glimmora on their team to bait out a glimmora counter, and then counter that counter. Essentially, you look for openings in your opponents team comp. Just because you only can bring 3 mons, doesn't mean the three mons you didn't bring don't contribute.

Which brings me to point 2): The key enemy threat. There are just some mons in some comps that you can't ignore because they will bowl over your strategy. Because of this, it makes it more obvious that you will bring that specific mons counter.

And then point 3 should be obvious, how do you win? There are tons of cores and combos that work, however a big thing too keep in mind is that since your limited to 3 mons per battle, going all in on one strategy can backfire horribly. Weather is a prime example. While weather gives you a greater field advantage, if your team is too focused on weather strats, that also acts as it's biggest counter pick weakness. Invest too heavy in one strategy and even if it's a great strategy, a balanced comp can out perform your combos. So often comps like these run dual cores with one mon that benefits from both strategies.

 

[Omastar68]

Is brute bonnet not that good? I see breloom a fair amount, but 0 brute bonnets for a very long time, not that they were ever very common. I think wo-chien is maybe better if you're gonna have a grass/dark. But it ofc lacks spore(thankfully.)

 

[DerpySuX]

Bonnet is fine but Breloom and Amoonguss offer spore with more speed and defensive utility respectively, so they are easier to fit on teams and as a result used more.

 

[furyofyuriy]

Is brute bonnet not that good? I see breloom a fair amount, but 0 brute bonnets for a very long time, not that they were ever very common. I think wo-chien is maybe better if you're gonna have a grass/dark. But it ofc lacks spore(thankfully.)

To add onto the previous post, this is also a meta where there are usually 1-2 Dark types on nearly every team due to how popular the Treasures of Ruin and Kingambit are. When you also factor in Roaring Moon and the Cat, that's a total of 7 extremely common dark type threats. That makes slotting in Brute Bonnet rather tough.