Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

[Theorymon]

So this has already had competitive implications in Battle Stadium Singles, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this thread (even if its probably a bit obvious): Purifying Salt does NOT block Ghost-type Curse.

Video Proof

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599692631566868480

 

[mattgcn]

honestly that seems like the most obvious thing to block given the flavour, huge missed opp

 

[Eve]

EDIT: I have done more testing since this post, refer to my next one for a better explanation!

Earlier today, the following was posted in the Smogon Discord:

The imgur links show recordings of Nuzzle doing far more damage than expected to various wild Pokemon after Terastallization. You can check them out here: 1 2 3

This prompted me to do my own investigation. Lily and I Link Battled each other and got the following results.

our findings

Level 50 Dedenne (66 Atk) vs. Level 50 Cetitan (238 HP, 87 Def) Using Nuzzle (20bp)
Regular Nuzzle:
Tested result: 10 damage
Calced result: Dedenne Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 9-12 damage: looks good!

Tera Boosted Nuzzle:
Tested result: 40, 38, 40 damage (tested 3 times)
Calced result: Dedenne Tera Electric Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 12-16 damage: um.

If you boost Nuzzle to 60bp in the calc:
Dedenne Tera Electric Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 36-44
Possible damage amounts: (36, 36, 38, 38, 38, 38, 40, 40, 40, 40, 40, 42, 42, 42, 42, 44)

Conclusion: Nuzzle is boosted disproportionately, maybe to 60bp.


Level 50 Sinistea (47 Atk) vs. Level 50 Corviknight (180 HP, 118 Def) using Astonish (30bp)
Regular Astonish:
Tested result: 9 damage
Calced result: Sinistea Astonish vs. Corviknight: 7-10 damage: looks good!

Tera Boosted Astonish:
Tested result: 22, 20, 22 damage (tested 3 times)
Calced result: Sinistea Tera Ghost Astonish vs. Corviknight: 10-14 damage: what.

If you boost Astonish to 60bp in the calc:
Sinistea Tera Ghost Astonish vs. Corviknight: 20-24
Possible damage amounts: (20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 24)

Conclusion: Astonish is boosted disproportionately, maybe to 60bp.


Level 50 Wugtrio (131 Atk) vs. Level 50 Cetitan (238 HP, 87 Def) Using Aqua Jet (40bp)
Regular Aqua Jet:
Tested result: 42 damage
Calced result: Wugtrio Aqua Jet vs. Cetitan: 34-42: looks good!

Tera Boosted Aqua Jet:
Tested result: 54 damage
Calced result: Wugtrio Tera Water Aqua Jet vs. Cetitan: 46-56: looks good!

Conclusion: Aqua Jet is NOT boosted disproportionately.

I also tested Population Bomb against a wild Cetoddle in the snowy mountains. I ran away and re-encountered the same one to guarantee calcs weren't swayed by stat differences. Without Tera, Population Bomb dealt ~50% in 4 hits; with Tera, it dealt ~50% in 3 hits, which is expected. This suggests Population Bomb (and presumably other Multi-hit moves) are not boosted disproportionately.

Keep in mind these are all done with same type Tera- I don't have any Pokemon that don't normally have STAB on these moves and have the correct Tera type, so i can't test new STAB tera currently.

tl;dr: Nuzzle and Astonish (and presumably other weak moves) are boosted disproportionately by Terastallization, and the damage they deal lines up perfectly with both being boosted to 60bp. Aqua Jet and Population Bomb, however, are not boosted disproportionately. I'll update this post with any further findings.

tweet with images:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599833721104109570

UPDATE: as far as I can tell, Feint is not boosted disproportionately. This means that there's more going on than just a 40bp threshold. It's possible that Persian's Technician is interfering, so I will try again without Technician. I have now tested with a Limber Persian and nothing seems out of the ordinary. I can't see a flag in the raw move data that lines up either. Interesting...

Evidence

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599837326783713280

UPDATE 2: I think Acid Spray is boosted as well. The damage with and without Tera is approximately doubled in the below images. This lines up with a boost to 60bp- your effective BP before tera is 40 * 1.5 (STAB), aka 60, and your effective BP after tera is 60 * 2 (TeraSTAB) = 120. Maybe I got some real funky damage rolls but I'm quite doubtful. My theory is that any low power move without priority or multi-hit is boosted in order to make the mechanic feel more impactful in the early-game.

Evidence

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599856901248147456

 

[sumwun]

Can you confirm a few things that I think I know about gen 9 battle mechanics?
Earth eater doesn't "raise" the Pokemon, so it doesn't provide any immunities besides ground moves, and it keeps working when the Pokemon is "grounded".
Mycelium might doesn't ignore "unignorable" abilities, like full metal body.
Terastal Pokemon get STAB for whatever types they had immediately before Terastallizing, so if their type was changed, they don't get STAB for their original type(s).
Terastal Pokemon are immune to type changes.

If a Pokemon with adaptability Terastallizes into a different type, does adaptability work for moves of the type(s) it had before Terastallizing?
If a Pokemon with adaptability Terastallizes into a type it already has, what is its STAB boost? I know this was asked before, but I think the answer used Showdown!'s damage calculator, and I just want to make sure the calculator is accurate.

 

[CTNC]

Earlier today, the following was posted in the Smogon Discord:
View attachment 471338
The imgur links show recordings of Nuzzle doing far more damage than expected to various wild Pokemon after Terastallization. You can check them out here: 1 2 3

This prompted me to do my own investigation. Lily and I Link Battled each other and got the following results.

our findings

Level 50 Dedenne (66 Atk) vs. Level 50 Cetitan (238 HP, 87 Def) Using Nuzzle (20bp)
Regular Nuzzle:
Tested result: 10 damage
Calced result: Dedenne Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 9-12 damage: looks good!

Tera Boosted Nuzzle:
Tested result: 40, 38, 40 damage (tested 3 times)
Calced result: Dedenne Tera Electric Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 12-16 damage: um.

If you boost Nuzzle to 60bp in the calc:
Dedenne Tera Electric Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 36-44
Possible damage amounts: (36, 36, 38, 38, 38, 38, 40, 40, 40, 40, 40, 42, 42, 42, 42, 44)

Conclusion: Nuzzle is boosted disproportionately, maybe to 60bp.


Level 50 Sinistea (47 Atk) vs. Level 50 Corviknight (180 HP, 118 Def) using Astonish (30bp)
Regular Astonish:
Tested result: 9 damage
Calced result: Sinistea Astonish vs. Corviknight: 7-10 damage: looks good!

Tera Boosted Astonish:
Tested result: 22, 20, 22 damage (tested 3 times)
Calced result: Sinistea Tera Ghost Astonish vs. Corviknight: 10-14 damage: what.

If you boost Astonish to 60bp in the calc:
Sinistea Tera Ghost Astonish vs. Corviknight: 20-24
Possible damage amounts: (20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 24)

Conclusion: Astonish is boosted disproportionately, maybe to 60bp.


Level 50 Wugtrio (131 Atk) vs. Level 50 Cetitan (238 HP, 87 Def) Using Aqua Jet (40bp)
Regular Aqua Jet:
Tested result: 42 damage
Calced result: Wugtrio Aqua Jet vs. Cetitan: 34-42: looks good!

Tera Boosted Aqua Jet:
Tested result: 54 damage
Calced result: Wugtrio Tera Water Aqua Jet vs. Cetitan: 46-56: looks good!

Conclusion: Aqua Jet is NOT boosted disproportionately.

I also tested Population Bomb against a wild Cetoddle in the snowy mountains. I ran away and re-encountered the same one to guarantee calcs weren't swayed by stat differences. Without Tera, Population Bomb dealt ~50% in 4 hits; with Tera, it dealt ~50% in 3 hits, which is expected. This suggests Population Bomb (and presumably other Multi-hit moves) are not boosted disproportionately.

Keep in mind these are all done with same type Tera- I don't have any Pokemon that don't normally have STAB on these moves and have the correct Tera type, so i can't test new STAB tera currently.

tl;dr: Nuzzle and Astonish (and presumably other weak moves) are boosted disproportionately by Terastallization, and the damage they deal lines up perfectly with both being boosted to 60bp. Aqua Jet and Population Bomb, however, are not boosted disproportionately. I'll update this post with any further findings.

tweet with images:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599833721104109570

UPDATE: as far as I can tell, Feint is not boosted disproportionately. This means that there's more going on than just a 40bp threshold. It's possible that Persian's Technician is interfering, so I will try again without Technician. I have now tested with a Limber Persian and nothing seems out of the ordinary. I can't see a flag in the raw move data that lines up either. Interesting...

Evidence

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599837326783713280

UPDATE 2: I think Acid Spray is boosted as well. The damage with and without Tera is approximately doubled in the below images. This lines up with a boost to 60bp- your effective BP before tera is 40 * 1.5 (STAB), aka 60, and your effective BP after tera is 60 * 2 (TeraSTAB) = 120. Maybe I got some real funky damage rolls but I'm quite doubtful. My theory is that any low power move without priority or multi-hit is boosted in order to make the mechanic feel more impactful in the early-game.

Evidence

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599856901248147456

Interesting...

Other than Priority and Multihit, you may want to test moves that have can have less than 60 Power but can become more powerful than 60 like Fling, Stored Power/Power Trip, Payback, Last Rites, and Rage Fist. (Because you haven't tested the last two enough already... :P)


Stupid side question: Is Struggle boosted by Tera Normal? It's probably excluded from STAB, but it'd be funny if an oversight buffed it to 60 Power because it is a Normal attack with less than 60 Power.

 

[pika pal]

Interesting...

Other than Priority and Multihit, you may want to test moves that have can have less than 60 Power but can become more powerful than 60 like Fling, Stored Power/Power Trip, Payback, Last Rites, and Rage Fist. (Because you haven't tested the last two enough already... :P)


Stupid side question: Is Struggle boosted by Tera Normal? It's probably excluded from STAB, but it'd be funny if an oversight buffed it to 60 Power because it is a Normal attack with less than 60 Power.

Isn't Struggle Typeless as of recent games to prevent Ghosts potentially getting into an Endless battle?

 

[CTNC]

Isn't Struggle Typeless as of recent games to prevent Ghosts potentially getting into an Endless battle?

As for as Damage and STAB go, it's typeless. However, every move has a Type and Struggle is assigned the Normal Type even though it acts like it's typeless. (It also has 1 PP for the sake of in case anyone hacks or glitches it onto a moveset.)

 

[Eve]

Earlier today, the following was posted in the Smogon Discord:
View attachment 471338
The imgur links show recordings of Nuzzle doing far more damage than expected to various wild Pokemon after Terastallization. You can check them out here: 1 2 3

This prompted me to do my own investigation. Lily and I Link Battled each other and got the following results.

our findings

Level 50 Dedenne (66 Atk) vs. Level 50 Cetitan (238 HP, 87 Def) Using Nuzzle (20bp)
Regular Nuzzle:
Tested result: 10 damage
Calced result: Dedenne Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 9-12 damage: looks good!

Tera Boosted Nuzzle:
Tested result: 40, 38, 40 damage (tested 3 times)
Calced result: Dedenne Tera Electric Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 12-16 damage: um.

If you boost Nuzzle to 60bp in the calc:
Dedenne Tera Electric Nuzzle vs. Cetitan: 36-44
Possible damage amounts: (36, 36, 38, 38, 38, 38, 40, 40, 40, 40, 40, 42, 42, 42, 42, 44)

Conclusion: Nuzzle is boosted disproportionately, maybe to 60bp.


Level 50 Sinistea (47 Atk) vs. Level 50 Corviknight (180 HP, 118 Def) using Astonish (30bp)
Regular Astonish:
Tested result: 9 damage
Calced result: Sinistea Astonish vs. Corviknight: 7-10 damage: looks good!

Tera Boosted Astonish:
Tested result: 22, 20, 22 damage (tested 3 times)
Calced result: Sinistea Tera Ghost Astonish vs. Corviknight: 10-14 damage: what.

If you boost Astonish to 60bp in the calc:
Sinistea Tera Ghost Astonish vs. Corviknight: 20-24
Possible damage amounts: (20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, 24)

Conclusion: Astonish is boosted disproportionately, maybe to 60bp.


Level 50 Wugtrio (131 Atk) vs. Level 50 Cetitan (238 HP, 87 Def) Using Aqua Jet (40bp)
Regular Aqua Jet:
Tested result: 42 damage
Calced result: Wugtrio Aqua Jet vs. Cetitan: 34-42: looks good!

Tera Boosted Aqua Jet:
Tested result: 54 damage
Calced result: Wugtrio Tera Water Aqua Jet vs. Cetitan: 46-56: looks good!

Conclusion: Aqua Jet is NOT boosted disproportionately.

I also tested Population Bomb against a wild Cetoddle in the snowy mountains. I ran away and re-encountered the same one to guarantee calcs weren't swayed by stat differences. Without Tera, Population Bomb dealt ~50% in 4 hits; with Tera, it dealt ~50% in 3 hits, which is expected. This suggests Population Bomb (and presumably other Multi-hit moves) are not boosted disproportionately.

Keep in mind these are all done with same type Tera- I don't have any Pokemon that don't normally have STAB on these moves and have the correct Tera type, so i can't test new STAB tera currently.

tl;dr: Nuzzle and Astonish (and presumably other weak moves) are boosted disproportionately by Terastallization, and the damage they deal lines up perfectly with both being boosted to 60bp. Aqua Jet and Population Bomb, however, are not boosted disproportionately. I'll update this post with any further findings.

tweet with images:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599833721104109570

UPDATE: as far as I can tell, Feint is not boosted disproportionately. This means that there's more going on than just a 40bp threshold. It's possible that Persian's Technician is interfering, so I will try again without Technician. I have now tested with a Limber Persian and nothing seems out of the ordinary. I can't see a flag in the raw move data that lines up either. Interesting...

Evidence

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599837326783713280

UPDATE 2: I think Acid Spray is boosted as well. The damage with and without Tera is approximately doubled in the below images. This lines up with a boost to 60bp- your effective BP before tera is 40 * 1.5 (STAB), aka 60, and your effective BP after tera is 60 * 2 (TeraSTAB) = 120. Maybe I got some real funky damage rolls but I'm quite doubtful. My theory is that any low power move without priority or multi-hit is boosted in order to make the mechanic feel more impactful in the early-game.

Evidence

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599856901248147456

BIG UPDATE!

We have tested various other moves. Here are our findings:

• The OP of the original post tested Shadow Sneak and found no unexpected boost. At this point I think it's safe to assume all priority moves are exempt from this boost.
• Every other move I tested got a boost. Sand Tomb and Struggle Bug were very clearly buffed to 60bp (thanks to Nails for helping me test the latter, as well as the two other moves I'm about to talk about- that difference was fairly subtle but getting exact numbers proved that we were getting rolls entirely impossible with a 50bp Struggle Bug).
• Rollout and Fury Cutter were both buffed to 60bp on the first hit. No subsequent hits recieved a buff- this makes sense as they're over 60bp.
• Technician does not stack with this effect. I used both a Scizor and a Kricketune with Fury Cutter- both were calculated to have an effective 60bp Fury Cutter on first hit when Terastallized. It seems that Technician is factored in before this buff, meaning no change is made- if Technician takes the move to above 60bp I imagine nothing interesting would happen.
• This does not work around the spread damage modifier. Struggle Bug did as much damage as expected from a 60bp spread move in a Double Battle.
• This does not boost moves that don't correspond with your Tera Type. While my Kricketune was Terastallized into Bug type, its Tackle still hit for 40bp damage. Nails's Tera Fairy Ceruledge did not recieve boosted damage on Astonish. My Tera Poison Goodra did recieve boosted damage on Acid Spray.

In short, I think the mechanic can be explained as such: If a move is below 60 base power (after Technician), doesn't hit multiple times, and doesn't have boosted priority, it will have its base power increased to 60 during terastallization of the same type.

EDIT: Anubis compiled a list of moves that don't recieve this boost, despite not being Multi-hit or priority. You can check it out here: https://www.serebii.net/scarletviolet/terastal.shtml

 

[Hematite]

Huh, it didn't occur to me the first time I read this, but I just looked at the Trainer data - it looks like aren't supposed to be any NPC-owned Veluza with their HA (Sharpness) in the first place. o.o
I did double-check the raw data in case I messed up the sheet somehow, which is always very possible - it looks like this is public now, so looking here and here, all eight Veluza are either fixed to slot 1 or random between their non-Hidden Abilities. That should completely eliminate Sharpness as an option unless things are working differently than we expect...

This is also strange because the move's damage internally appears to work more like Substitute or Belly Drum (it's hard-coded into the move effect and appears to be a prerequisite for even attempting the rest of the move).
At first, I took at face value that it was just an oversight on the assumption that it was a "negative heal" like Mind Blown - Mind Blown-style recoil is the same column as Heal Pulse's healing, which is known to be affected by Mega Launcher, so I thought it would make sense for the same column to be modified by an equivalent Ability even if it were a total accident...
but since it isn't that column, and in fact the datamined move table doesn't do much to indicate how much the move is supposed to damage the user at all, it is quite a lot stranger to me for this interaction to slip through the cracks unless it was for some reason intentional.

So uh, just to double-check - how confident are you that the Veluza in this interaction had Sharpness at all? Is it possible that the move itself works differently than we thought/that the amount of damage it does to the user can vary, even on Mold Breaker variants...? or can anyone test that HA Veluza do exist on some enemy teams (should be possible to say with confidence because Mold Breaker has an activation message and Sharpness doesn't)?

Hi again! I got an Ability Patch and wanted to confirm or deny this, so I did a test with both Mold Breaker and Sharpness:

results with my Veluza

(For both screenshots, the wild Maschiff used Roar and did no damage. I actually did three tests and it predictably did 87 damage the other time as well, but the Maschiff then did a tiny bit of damage with Headbutt and I wanted a better screenshot P:)

I dunno if there are other factors that may cause variance in how Fillet Away damages the user to explain Kalalokki's experience, but I can confirm that Sharpness specifically does not affect any part of Fillet Away - neither the stats boosted nor the amount of damage dealt to the user - in the current version of SV.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

So I was really confused as to why Jet Punch was boosted by Sheer Force, so I went looking in this datamine for some kind of flag or unknown effect that would be a reason, and I am now more confused than when I started.

Going into this, I assumed that every move affected by Sheer Force would have a flag that says "affected by Sheer Force". While there is a flag like that, it seems to be exclusively for weird moves that wouldn't normally be boosted by Sheer Force that the devs wanted to be boosted anyway (and also some moves that seem like they'd be boosted by Sheer Force anyway? and also Guard and Power Swap for some reason???) so I assumed Sheer Force normally checks for certain things in the inflict data or something like that.

Except... Jet Punch's Sheer Force flag is set to false, and it also doesn't have anything special in the inflict data. However, it does have a "quality" of 6, and quality 6 moves are otherwise all attacks that lower the opponent's stats like Snarl or Energy Ball (Order Up is also quality 6, even though it should probably be with the quality 7 moves, as they're all attacks that change the user's stats like Ancient Power and Close Combat).

So I thought maybe Sheer Force checks for quality and the Sheer Force flag, and so Jet Punch is boosted by Sheer Force because it for whatever reason it has a quality compatible with Sheer Force. Except partial trapping moves like Fire Spin and Infestation share their quality with a bunch of Sheer Force boosted moves but aren't themselves Sheer Force boosted (unless they actually are boosted by Sheer Force, all resources say they're not but my sanity is at a point where I don't know what to believe anymore).

 

[mattgcn]

Yeah Wobl's post said more or less that. Not sure WHY Jet Punch is in that category, possibly it's a leftover from an old effect or something. The Sheer Force flag seems to be specifically for moves not contained in the usual categories for one reason or another (but also includes several moves that are for whatever reason?? very odd).

As for your last paragraph, if you look at Wobl's paste again you'll note that the partial trapping moves are specifically excluded (moves that inflict the "Bound" status means them).

 

[DaWoblefet]

So I was really confused as to why Jet Punch was boosted by Sheer Force, so I went looking in this datamine for some kind of flag or unknown effect that would be a reason, and I am now more confused than when I started.

Going into this, I assumed that every move affected by Sheer Force would have a flag that says "affected by Sheer Force". While there is a flag like that, it seems to be exclusively for weird moves that wouldn't normally be boosted by Sheer Force that the devs wanted to be boosted anyway (and also some moves that seem like they'd be boosted by Sheer Force anyway? and also Guard and Power Swap for some reason???) so I assumed Sheer Force normally checks for certain things in the inflict data or something like that.

Except... Jet Punch's Sheer Force flag is set to false, and it also doesn't have anything special in the inflict data. However, it does have a "quality" of 6, and quality 6 moves are otherwise all attacks that lower the opponent's stats like Snarl or Energy Ball (Order Up is also quality 6, even though it should probably be with the quality 7 moves, as they're all attacks that change the user's stats like Ancient Power and Close Combat).

So I thought maybe Sheer Force checks for quality and the Sheer Force flag, and so Jet Punch is boosted by Sheer Force because it for whatever reason it has a quality compatible with Sheer Force. Except partial trapping moves like Fire Spin and Infestation share their quality with a bunch of Sheer Force boosted moves but aren't themselves Sheer Force boosted (unless they actually are boosted by Sheer Force, all resources say they're not but my sanity is at a point where I don't know what to believe anymore).

It's nothing special, just that Sheer Force's conditions for counting as Sheer Force-boosted is unchanged from previous generations. The conditions for Sheer Force boosting moves are:

• Moves which have a flinch chance not equal to 0
• Move group 4, except moves which inflict the Bound status
• Move group 6
• Move group 7, except moves which lower the user's stats
• Special cases hardcoded by the devs

What I call "move group" in my pastebin is what Kaphotics calls "quality". The only thing different about Sheer Force this generation is that the "special cases" were moved out from an internal table to being stored in move data directly. As for why Jet Punch is in move group 6, who knows! Maybe Jet Punch was intended to have different functionality and it got changed, or maybe it was simply a typo. It's not as if Drum Beating, Pyro Ball, Breaking Swipe, Apple Acid, Grav Apple, Spirit Break, or Strange Steam needed to be added to the "make sure these are Sheer Force-boosted" table either.

 

[Gliwick]

• The OP of the original post tested Shadow Sneak and found no unexpected boost. At this point I think it's safe to assume all priority moves are exempt from this boost.

Would moves that gained priority via an ability, i.e. Triage Draining Kiss or Gale Wings Gust, get the boost?

 

[Day Healer]

Hello, idk if this is the right place to ask, but does someone knows if Ditto can copy Annihilape Rage Fist boosts? And in case it do, does it increase the base power if ditto receives damage, or if it switch out and in again Annihilape?

From what I seen in this showdown battle it seems in showdown ditto receives some sort of boost, idk if is like this in the games too, so thanks for any help.

Ps. I just realized that Last Respects and Supreme Overlord are accumulative as well, so it could be interesting to investigate the interactions of those with Ditto too

 

[Talpr0ne]

4 hours of tests! With special thanks to Karthik and pyuk for helping.

• Commander's boosts can be copied by both Opportunist and Mirror Herb.
  • When they do so, they copy in the "standard" order, i.e. Atk->Def-SpA-SpD->Spe.
• Order Up still gets a boost when failing the move due to Fairy-type, side target of Tatsugiri, attacking an empty partner slot, or vs Protect (not captured here, but you can find it in any VGC video).
  • Order Up does not boost vs Armor Tail (via called Sleep Talk Prankster).
  • Steel Beam, a move with similar timing in the checks done before move success, will still not lose HP if using it into an empty partner slot.
• Opportunist and Mirror Herb can stack copying the same boost.
• Opportunist and Mirror Herb copy a single +2 boost from Howl if both opponents receive an Attack boost.
• A Tatsugiri inside Dondozo's mouth can still take sand damage / recover from Leftovers.
• If the first hit of Dragon Darts KOs a Dondozo with a Tatsugiri in its mouth, the second one won't attack the Tatsugiri (similar to Dragon Darts vs Follow Me).
• Commander does not activate at the standard time of other entrance Abilities. Its timing is consistent with White Herb (after Terrain seeds, before Eject Pack).
• Mirror Herb also does not activate at the same time as entrance Abilities; it activates after White Herb, but before Eject Pack.
• Costar can copy Focus Energy.
• When attacking an ally with Toxic Debris, Toxic Spikes are always set up on the opponent's side.
• Charge will lose its 2x effect if a non-damaging Electric-type move is used (e.g. Thunder Wave).
• Jet Punch is boosted by Sheer Force (but Jet Punch does not lose its priority).
• Armor Tail blocks Prankster Perish Song, but not Prankster Haze.
• Mirror Herb can copy Anger Point, but will only boost the user by the actual boost the opponent received.
  • +0 Anger Point vs +0 Mirror Herb - both end up at +6 Atk.
  • -6 Anger Point vs -6 Mirror Herb - both end up at +6 Atk.
  • +0 Anger Point vs -1 Mirror Herb - Anger Point ends at +6 Atk, Mirror Herb ends at +5 Atk.
• Rage Fist is not boosted by an ally's Pollen Puff healing HP, or failing to heal HP due to full HP.
• Transform only copies 1 PP on Revival Blessing (similar to previous games with Sketch)
• Using Revival Blessing on a fainted "active" ally (currently in an active slot) will cause the Pokemon to immediately be sent out again.
• Booster Energy has Mega Stone-like behavior on Paradox Pokemon. It cannot be removed or given via Trick, and it cannot be removed via Knock Off (and uses 65 BP).
• Illusion is leaked badly by Terastallizing. In the [+] info screen, Terastallization is tied to the Pokemon that is in fact Terastallized, not the Pokemon that is being Illusioned.
• Toxic's sure-hit accuracy depends on its current type. Terastallizing to or away from Poison-type will impact whether or not Toxic is sure-hit accurate.
• Revival Blessing can boost Last Respects' base power beyond the initial 5 KOs.
• Last Respects does not appear to have a BP cap. I got to 850 BP on it after 16 KOs with many Revival Blessings.

In addition, using the same logic for Sheer Force as past games and the SV move data dumps, here's a complete list of all Sheer Force-boosted moves: https://pastebin.com/3CUAf7AQ. Notably, Sparkling Aria and Genesis Supernova are no longer on this list.

New Sheer Force-negated moves

Mountain Gale
Triple Arrows
Dire Claw
Barb Barrage
Infernal Parade
Wildbolt Storm
Sandsear Storm
Axe Kick
Salt Cure
Mortal Spin
Blazing Torque
Wicked Torque
Noxious Torque
Combat Torque
Magical Torque
Springtide Storm
Bitter Malice
Triple Arrows
Bleakwind Storm
Lumina Crash
Order Up
Jet Punch
Pounce
Chilling Water
Psyshield Bash
Mystical Power
Esper Wing
Torch Song
Aqua Step
Trailblaze
Stone Axe
Ceaseless Edge

Does Sheer Force Stone Axe / Ceaseless Edge still lay hazards? Does it boost Order Up even when there is no Tatsugiri and does it remove the boost when there is one? Does it interact in any funny way with Jet Punch?

 

[pika pal]

BIG UPDATE!

We have tested various other moves. Here are our findings:

• The OP of the original post tested Shadow Sneak and found no unexpected boost. At this point I think it's safe to assume all priority moves are exempt from this boost.
• Every other move I tested got a boost. Sand Tomb and Struggle Bug were very clearly buffed to 60bp (thanks to Nails for helping me test the latter, as well as the two other moves I'm about to talk about- that difference was fairly subtle but getting exact numbers proved that we were getting rolls entirely impossible with a 50bp Struggle Bug).
• Rollout and Fury Cutter were both buffed to 60bp on the first hit. No subsequent hits recieved a buff- this makes sense as they're over 60bp.
• Technician does not stack with this effect. I used both a Scizor and a Kricketune with Fury Cutter- both were calculated to have an effective 60bp Fury Cutter on first hit when Terastallized. It seems that Technician is factored in before this buff, meaning no change is made- if Technician takes the move to above 60bp I imagine nothing interesting would happen.
• This does not work around the spread damage modifier. Struggle Bug did as much damage as expected from a 60bp spread move in a Double Battle.
• This does not boost moves that don't correspond with your Tera Type. While my Kricketune was Terastallized into Bug type, its Tackle still hit for 40bp damage. Nails's Tera Fairy Ceruledge did not recieve boosted damage on Astonish. My Tera Poison Goodra did recieve boosted damage on Acid Spray.

In short, I think the mechanic can be explained as such: If a move is below 60 base power (after Technician), doesn't hit multiple times, and doesn't have boosted priority, it will have its base power increased to 60 during terastallization of the same type.

One minor question, is that 60 BP before actually applying a STAB buff to the damage output?

 

[Discordual]

Hello, idk if this is the right place to ask, but does someone knows if Ditto can copy Annihilape Rage Fist boosts? And in case it do, does it increase the base power if ditto receives damage, or if it switch out and in again Annihilape?

According to the research here, transforming into the target will gain you the current rage fist boosts they have. I'm not sure about hitting a pokémon while transformed, but switching Ditto out and in again will update it to the rage fist user's current counter.

More Rage Fist tests to complement and confirm what's already been discussed in this thread:

• Rage Fist caps at 350 BP
• Rage Fist only accumulates BP on successful damaging hits
  • False Swipe at 1 HP counts as a damaging hit (even though it deals 0 damage)
  • Ally attacks count towards damaging hits
  • Individual hits of attacks that hit multiple times (Population Bomb) each count as damaging hits
  • Disguise busting counts towards damaging hits
  • Self-hit confusion doesn't count towards damaging hits
  • Damaging or breaking the user's Substitute doesn't count towards damaging hits
• The "times hit" volatile persists on both switchout and being revived by Revival Blessing
• Transform copies the target's "times hit" volatile
• Copycat uses the Copycat user's "times hit" volatile

 

[Elkos]

Do DoT moves like Wrap get the 60BP buff too?

 

[Eve]

One minor question, is that 60 BP before actually applying a STAB buff to the damage output?

the move is 60bp before STAB (e.g. the power of Swift). With 2x terastab that means effective 120bp!

Do DoT moves like Wrap get the 60BP buff too?

As stated, the boost works with Sand Tomb- I have no reason to assume it wouldn't work with the others.

Would moves that gained priority via an ability, i.e. Triage Draining Kiss or Gale Wings Gust, get the boost?

Would be hard to test Triage but Gale Wings Gust is something I can take a look at.

 

[Count Bleck]

BIG UPDATE!

We have tested various other moves. Here are our findings:

• The OP of the original post tested Shadow Sneak and found no unexpected boost. At this point I think it's safe to assume all priority moves are exempt from this boost.
• Every other move I tested got a boost. Sand Tomb and Struggle Bug were very clearly buffed to 60bp (thanks to Nails for helping me test the latter, as well as the two other moves I'm about to talk about- that difference was fairly subtle but getting exact numbers proved that we were getting rolls entirely impossible with a 50bp Struggle Bug).
• Rollout and Fury Cutter were both buffed to 60bp on the first hit. No subsequent hits recieved a buff- this makes sense as they're over 60bp.
• Technician does not stack with this effect. I used both a Scizor and a Kricketune with Fury Cutter- both were calculated to have an effective 60bp Fury Cutter on first hit when Terastallized. It seems that Technician is factored in before this buff, meaning no change is made- if Technician takes the move to above 60bp I imagine nothing interesting would happen.
• This does not work around the spread damage modifier. Struggle Bug did as much damage as expected from a 60bp spread move in a Double Battle.
• This does not boost moves that don't correspond with your Tera Type. While my Kricketune was Terastallized into Bug type, its Tackle still hit for 40bp damage. Nails's Tera Fairy Ceruledge did not recieve boosted damage on Astonish. My Tera Poison Goodra did recieve boosted damage on Acid Spray.

In short, I think the mechanic can be explained as such: If a move is below 60 base power (after Technician), doesn't hit multiple times, and doesn't have boosted priority, it will have its base power increased to 60 during terastallization of the same type.

EDIT: Anubis compiled a list of moves that don't recieve this boost, despite not being Multi-hit or priority. You can check it out here: https://www.serebii.net/scarletviolet/terastal.shtml

Very interesting find! Mind if I ask a few niche questions?

• Both the Rain and Sun weather effects can increase and decrease the base powers of certain moves. How does this boost interact with it, if at all? Would a move initially over 60BP,under the negative effects of weather, be brought back up?
• Likewise, do the effects of terrains cause this boost to be lost or gained if they are active?
• Dragon darts is a weird case, a multi hit move that hits twice on one target, but hits both once each if there's 2. Assuming the above is correct, Dragon Darts would only get a buff to power in a double battle scenario as a spread move?

 

[LatiosRider]

BIG UPDATE!

We have tested various other moves. Here are our findings:

• The OP of the original post tested Shadow Sneak and found no unexpected boost. At this point I think it's safe to assume all priority moves are exempt from this boost.
• Every other move I tested got a boost. Sand Tomb and Struggle Bug were very clearly buffed to 60bp (thanks to Nails for helping me test the latter, as well as the two other moves I'm about to talk about- that difference was fairly subtle but getting exact numbers proved that we were getting rolls entirely impossible with a 50bp Struggle Bug).
• Rollout and Fury Cutter were both buffed to 60bp on the first hit. No subsequent hits recieved a buff- this makes sense as they're over 60bp.
• Technician does not stack with this effect. I used both a Scizor and a Kricketune with Fury Cutter- both were calculated to have an effective 60bp Fury Cutter on first hit when Terastallized. It seems that Technician is factored in before this buff, meaning no change is made- if Technician takes the move to above 60bp I imagine nothing interesting would happen.
• This does not work around the spread damage modifier. Struggle Bug did as much damage as expected from a 60bp spread move in a Double Battle.
• This does not boost moves that don't correspond with your Tera Type. While my Kricketune was Terastallized into Bug type, its Tackle still hit for 40bp damage. Nails's Tera Fairy Ceruledge did not recieve boosted damage on Astonish. My Tera Poison Goodra did recieve boosted damage on Acid Spray.

In short, I think the mechanic can be explained as such: If a move is below 60 base power (after Technician), doesn't hit multiple times, and doesn't have boosted priority, it will have its base power increased to 60 during terastallization of the same type.

EDIT: Anubis compiled a list of moves that don't recieve this boost, despite not being Multi-hit or priority. You can check it out here: https://www.serebii.net/scarletviolet/terastal.shtml

I'm not sure where exactly the change to 60bp occurs, but I did a test to see if Charge would stack with the effect and it didn't. The Tera Electric Nuzzle I tried was in the same damage range both before and after a Charge instead of getting doubled.

 

[Anubis]

After all the wonderful testing by Eve / Lily / Nails about the Tera boost to low BP moves, I dug around a bit in the disassembly to see where this is handled, and pretty much confirmed the same things that were already found.

Here's a bit of the pseudocode with comments for what I think each line is doing. The game doesn't enter this code block unless I'm Terastallized and using a move of the same type as the Tera Type, and there are separate checks for number of hits (<= 1) and priority (<= 0) based on the move flatbuffer data.

I do believe this is the last thing that happens to the BP before BP is fed into the damage formula, which explains the observation that Technician happens before this.

Pseudocode, technical stuff, yes

You can see that there are several hard-coded moves that cause the game to skip past the code that modifies the BP. For whatever reason, a GF dev decided to put a list of moves here and what you see is a compiler optimization that's doing a bitfield-to-moveID conversion.

Excluded Moves
Low Kick
Flail
Reversal
Eruption
Water Spout
Gyro Ball
Fling
Grass Knot
Crush Grip
Heavy Slam
Electro Ball
Heat Crash
Dragon Energy

I didn't test these personally, so feel free to confirm. You've probably seen these on Serebii already since I gave them to Joe this morning.

---

Unrelated, a couple of other observations others beat me to:
- Rocky Payload's modifier, which Fragmented tested here, is indeed a 6144/4096. It's an attack modifier and stacks with Terastal's damage modifier.
- Already known, but I did confirm that all the Ruin abilities are a 3072/4096 modifier to the respective stat.

And Metronome move is selected over a rand 901 (i.e. all available moves) rather than a specially curated list of moves like previous games. I expect this operates off of the Metronome flag. Hopefully this means we don't have a discrepancy like what happened with Dragon Hammer in SWSH. It tries 500 times and then chooses the move Pound if all of them fail to select a valid move. This is handled in sub_71026DA710 in 1.1.0.

 

[Lectrys]

I'd like this 100% checked for the sake of Gen 9 Hackmons metas:

If Arceus-not-Normal (e.g. Arceus-Fairy) is hacked in with any ability other than Multitype, will it stay its form type (e.g. Fairy) or will it be a Normal-type?

 

[Anubis]

I'd like this 100% checked for the sake of Gen 9 Hackmons metas:

If Arceus-not-Normal (e.g. Arceus-Fairy) is hacked in with any ability other than Multitype, will it stay its form type (e.g. Fairy) or will it be a Normal-type?

Is this what you're asking?

 

[pika pal]

Bulbapedia says Terastalizing nullifies Protean's effect, but does that mean "your current type is overridden" or "Protean cannot change a Terastalized Pokemon's type at all"? I never trust early-day Wiki info, much less wording, at face value.

Ignore if it's the second one

Do we know if a Protean Pokemon gets Super-STAB from Terastalizing into a Type it was changed to.

Two examples for Meowscarada: Either Play Rough -> Tera Fairy -> Play Rough again, or Tera Fairy -> Switch out and back in -> Play Rough

In either of these situations, does it have normal STAB or the Same-Tera Boosted STAB on the Fairy move? And as an edge case for the former, if a Fairy-Proteaned Meow goes Tera-Fairy (and we assume Boosted STAB worked that time), switches out, and then comes back in again later, does it have normal or Boost STAB on the second Switch?

Also, was it checked in an earlier page what happens if you Tera to an initial type (Grass or Dark in this case), click a Coverage move (Play Rough -> Protean Fairy), and then click a Tera STAB move (Flower Trick after Protean is "used up" for the Switch)?

Or has this all just been rambling and Protean has no effective interaction with Same-Type Terastalizing?