Metagame RU Stage 1 - Begin Again (Welcome to gen 9!)

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C0nfiden1 0yster

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hello, i just want to post some thoughts about the meta as alpha phase closes shortly. Post is mostly a rambling as I wont really try to back up anything I say with replays or evidence or anything. hope you enjoy

:slowbro:
I think slowbro is the best pokemon in the tier. It checks brokens like haxorus and lycanroc, it isn't really that passive due to its movepool and regen, and its incredibly reliable. Obviously tera fairy is best as that helps with lycan's crunch and other darks like krook that would otherwise beat it. Touching on the movepool again, i believe its best set is future sight + ironpress, tho twave can also fit in there. I find surf to be rather useless, something like chilling water would honestly be better. Hitting grounds is really not that important. Psyshock is also very good for catching Toxtricity. I wonder if CM could ever work with how little pokemon use toxic. I think it is very hard to make any kind of balance without this pokemon. trying to build cores without it can work but i really don't see a reason to do that. Not to say this pokemon is perfect tho. It's awful garde mu is bad and its weakness to dark pre-tera is exploitable due to the limited fairy type options of the tier. Its pretty hard to really take advantage of outside of those i find, ig surfless leaves it really weak to rotom fire but i don't see that as the biggest issue.

:gardevoir:
garde is the best scarfer in the tier. It really takes advantage of the limited steel types of the tier and it can take advantage of other special walls like blissey with Trick. H-wish is also insanely valuable. I think its sheer strength is often overlooked but 125 spa does wonders in this tier. there aren't a ton of great special walls, certainly none that are of the same caliber as slowbro or even bellibolt, so it is bound to succeed, especially with the stab combo. The only drawback to scarf garde is that its slower than +1 haxo, but so is every other scarfer except lazzle. Specs is also quite good but is not as splashable as scarf and also struggles against offense.

:oricorio-pom-pom::altaria::drifblim::lurantis::braviary::avalugg::cryogonal::coalossal::tatsugiri:
hazard removal is by far the biggest question of this tier now and will be moving forward. the pokemon above are the options that could be listed as 'viable' even though they really aren't. Id argue only one of those pokemon are actually viable, and that's oricorio. Firstly oricorio is a fantastic check to flamigo, something ppl claim is broken (its not... at all) and secondly it isn't as exploitable as the others. It has reliable recovery and can pivot with U-turn. it pairs well with slowbro as it can handle krook. I personally like hurricane/qd/roost/defog as it can become a threatening wincon. It also is just good at removal as it beats stuff like palosand and whiscash. I think the pokemon that comes closest to being actually good is altaria as it is a decent special sponge. Perish trap stuff is also very nice with alt. I think its biggest issue is that its far too passive for the kinds of teams that it often appears. It is a special wall that kinda sits there and fogs and doesn't really threaten anything itself. Aldo showed off a cool cotton gaurd set, forgot if it ran defog tho. Driftblim isn't good either for similar reasons. Strength sap is more annoying than it is actually good and drift often requires a tera too. Lurantis is kind of threatening with leaf storm, but it still isn't a good pokemon itself due to poor speed, it is very prone to just being overrun. It has good mu's into common rockers tho. Braviary might not be that bad, i can't say I've tried it and its bulk is decent at 100/75/75. Also as U-turn. I think the biggest reason why im hesitant to calling it good is the normal typeing really hurts it. Lots of teams use their flying types to deal with the insane fighting of RU but braviary just gets owned. Avlugg is far to passive, cryogonal has deceptively bad stats topped with an awful defensive typing, coal is not a good spinner, loses to all ghosts, and tatsugiri is dogshit and unremarkable. There is a reason why no one has been using it in kickoff tour.

:whiscash:
ru is unique as whiscash finally has a niche in a metagame, a very good one. Offering both rocks and spikes are incredibly valuable in a tier with such poor removal options. Oblivious allows it to spike on opposing leads like froslass and lycanroc. ywt used it in conjunction with sableye on a balance and that works well enough. I am just very happy my favorite pokemon gets to be good.

:dachsbun:
Very good whispasser. The first time i ever saw this thing was when i played togkey and ever since I've been a fan. togkey used press/wish/tect/yawn which i think is its best set. Yawn prevents set up in the early game and body press takes advantage of the crappy steels. It can also outspeed mag too ensuring the faster press. well-baked-body is a solid ability that supports its body press, leads to a really strong mu against tauros-fire. tera steel is what i have been running and that also compliments nicely with well-baked-body.

:revavroom:
Decent steel-type option, I again saw togkey use it and i like it. Lots of teams are not prepared for toxic and it being one of the few to learn it makes it quite good. coupled with parting shot and it is quite decent pivot. Spin out is a decent move and it works well with its pivoting since it can go slower. Filter is just the cherry on top. Pairs well with dachsbun too making a strong defensive core.

:goodra:
Goodra is good! I think scarf goodra is very good and i would suggest trying it. It offers defensive utility as it goes quite well into rotom, can take a boomburst after rocks from specs toxt. Goodra, like garde, also takes advantage of the poor steels of RU, id recommend running tera dragon to pack an extra punch on those dracos. It fails to break any special walls like blissey tho, maybe focus punch idk.

:blissey:
for w/e reason, ppl think blissey is bad when it is fine. I think they try to argue that its supposed to beat mismag and other ghosts, when a) it can use t-wave to effectively take them out of the game and b) its not its job. it is meant to soak special attacks not beat stallbreakers. It goes quite well into rotoms, goodra, toxt (assuming u run special bulk which you should), arboliva, frosmoth, venomoth, and other special attackers.

:magnezone:
I think there are two main viable sets, specs analytic or some kind of special defense pivot. Magnetpull is very bad,no reason to run it, it requires a tera to actually beat steels which isn't worth it ever. Analytic on the other hand beats all grounds and can fire powerful volt switches on other special walls. spdef pivot is also good as it can work as a garde check and do other steel things. volt/discharge/flash/tect is a good set, tect gives extra lefties and can scout. there are some very popular teams that don't run a ground type and this just goes in. Ill also add it tanks ttoxt's attacks quite well.

:sableye:
Fantastic pokemon, can 6-0 teams itself. beats cheese, really good option.

:venomoth:
Another really strong pokemon, it really is like ru's volcarona. Seems to have gone under the radar a bit but it still does venomoth things. Different teras can help it against priority too.


that's all hope u enjoyed
 
Well this is my first post ever on a Smogon forum and for it, I'll be posting about a Pokémon whose actual viability in RU I'm entirely unsure of (I'm currently a sub-1100 lifer so bear with me here :pikuh:)

:sv/dudunsparce:

I just think this thing is funny and I've wanted to make it work, so here are two attempts I made at doing so:

Attempt 1: The Return of Paraflinch

Dudunsparce-Three-Segment @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost/Poison
EVs: 64 HP / 100 Def / 92 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Slam
- Rock Slide
- Agility
- Poison Jab

I tend to run this set with Sticky Web support from :spidops: and paralysis support via :blissey: for the Ghost-types that are immune to Body Slam, and use :avalugg: as a deterrent to most Flying-types that hover over webs. Max speed Jolly Dudunsparce after an Agility reaches a speed of 458, which for reference is 37 points faster than Jolly Dragapult. Needless to say, it becomes able to outspeed a lot of Pokémon once it gets a boost and can start committing the classic Body Slam + Rock Slide combo. With Body Slam's paralysis and the 60% chance for Rock Slide to flinch... yeah this can get annoying real fast. Of course, there's an obvious downside: you're relying on luck for this to work, and that's not always your preferred set. :palossand: also sits on this set, as it's immune to Body Slam, resists Rock Slide, and is immune to Thunder Wave. That's why I added Poison Jab: to get that sweet 60% chance to poison something that might sit on this set. Of course, Steel-types neuter this completely, along with... most of the set, really, but with six slots on a team and the limited amount of Steel-types in the tier, this is pretty manageable.

I picked Tera Ghost and Tera Poison because both remove Dudunsparce's Fighting-type weakness, with the former making it an immunity and the latter giving Poison Jab STAB. Getting the Agility boost shouldn't be too hard either, as switching in on a more defensive Pokémon can create an opening for this boost to happen.

That said, there's another set I've been experimenting with lately.

Attempt 2: Swellow at Home

Dudunsparce-Three-Segment @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Boomburst
- Air Slash
- Ice Beam

I run this on a Trick Room team with :rabsca: hence the 0 Speed IVs and 0 Speed EVs, but this could be reworked if you find Trick Room too gimmicky by changing the EV spread to 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and changing the Nature to Timid. This set definitely needs more speed control to work to its fullest potential, with paralysis from :blissey: and Sticky Web from :spidops: being good options if you don't wanna run Trick Room. The benefits, though, are massive. :swellow: was touted for its offensive prowess in the lower tiers with its base 75 Special Attack because of Specs Boomburst, so imagine the terror that a base 85 Special Attack Tera Normal Dudunsparce could cause. Of course, let's be real here, Swellow worked as well as it did because of two things that Dudunsparce lacks: a comically large base speed of 125, and the Scrappy ability to hit Ghost-types. Thus, making this work requires some improvements. I added Shadow Ball to hit these Ghost-types, along with Air Slash for that 60% flinch rate if I outspeed and Ice Beam for extra coverage (plus, a 20% chance to freeze never hurt anyone).

For this set to be able to spam Boomburst uninhibited, I'd recommend a solid Dark-type to remove the Normal-immune Ghost-types, such as :mabosstiff:. Plus, you need that speed control, as I mentioned earlier. If you're using Sticky Web, you're gonna need something to deal with Defog. Yes, I understand this is a lot of support for one lad, but I also think that Dudunsparce's supporters can also act as powerful standalone Pokémon, making this more manageable.

That said, even with these two sets, I won't be surprised to see Dudunsparce drop to NU. Nobody's been talking about it lately so that seems to be the direction things are going in.
 
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:oricorio: :altaria: :avalugg: :tatsugiri:

despite your claim that ori is the only good removal, I think all of these guys all have a solid place, albiet one of them will probably fall off once alpha ends, ori is obviously the best mon with removal, but I wouldn't call it the "best" removal arround, that, imo, would go to either altaria or avalugg, lugg, for its great defensive profile and ability to check the absurdly dangerous haxorus, and alt for its ability to spread status and soak up special hits while also being valuable as a fighting resist. I think lugg will fall off once hax inevitably gets banned, but for now, I think we have decent enough removal
 
:oricorio: :altaria: :avalugg: :tatsugiri:

despite your claim that ori is the only good removal, I think all of these guys all have a solid place, albiet one of them will probably fall off once alpha ends, ori is obviously the best mon with removal, but I wouldn't call it the "best" removal arround, that, imo, would go to either altaria or avalugg, lugg, for its great defensive profile and ability to check the absurdly dangerous haxorus, and alt for its ability to spread status and soak up special hits while also being valuable as a fighting resist. I think lugg will fall off once hax inevitably gets banned, but for now, I think we have decent enough removal
I feel like from my limited experience Tatsugiri is less of a spinner and more of a special breaker that also has Spin, sort of like Quaquaval in OU.
It’s too frail and unlike the others has 0 reliable recovery, and though Oricorio is also p frail it can bolster with QD and does have Roost.
 
hello, i just want to post some thoughts about the meta as alpha phase closes shortly. Post is mostly a rambling as I wont really try to back up anything I say with replays or evidence or anything. hope you enjoy

:slowbro:
I think slowbro is the best pokemon in the tier. It checks brokens like haxorus and lycanroc, it isn't really that passive due to its movepool and regen, and its incredibly reliable. Obviously tera fairy is best as that helps with lycan's crunch and other darks like krook that would otherwise beat it. Touching on the movepool again, i believe its best set is future sight + ironpress, tho twave can also fit in there. I find surf to be rather useless, something like chilling water would honestly be better. Hitting grounds is really not that important. Psyshock is also very good for catching Toxtricity. I wonder if CM could ever work with how little pokemon use toxic. I think it is very hard to make any kind of balance without this pokemon. trying to build cores without it can work but i really don't see a reason to do that. Not to say this pokemon is perfect tho. It's awful garde mu is bad and its weakness to dark pre-tera is exploitable due to the limited fairy type options of the tier. Its pretty hard to really take advantage of outside of those i find, ig surfless leaves it really weak to rotom fire but i don't see that as the biggest issue.

:gardevoir:
garde is the best scarfer in the tier. It really takes advantage of the limited steel types of the tier and it can take advantage of other special walls like blissey with Trick. H-wish is also insanely valuable. I think its sheer strength is often overlooked but 125 spa does wonders in this tier. there aren't a ton of great special walls, certainly none that are of the same caliber as slowbro or even bellibolt, so it is bound to succeed, especially with the stab combo. The only drawback to scarf garde is that its slower than +1 haxo, but so is every other scarfer except lazzle. Specs is also quite good but is not as splashable as scarf and also struggles against offense.

:oricorio-pom-pom::altaria::drifblim::lurantis::braviary::avalugg::cryogonal::coalossal::tatsugiri:
hazard removal is by far the biggest question of this tier now and will be moving forward. the pokemon above are the options that could be listed as 'viable' even though they really aren't. Id argue only one of those pokemon are actually viable, and that's oricorio. Firstly oricorio is a fantastic check to flamigo, something ppl claim is broken (its not... at all) and secondly it isn't as exploitable as the others. It has reliable recovery and can pivot with U-turn. it pairs well with slowbro as it can handle krook. I personally like hurricane/qd/roost/defog as it can become a threatening wincon. It also is just good at removal as it beats stuff like palosand and whiscash. I think the pokemon that comes closest to being actually good is altaria as it is a decent special sponge. Perish trap stuff is also very nice with alt. I think its biggest issue is that its far too passive for the kinds of teams that it often appears. It is a special wall that kinda sits there and fogs and doesn't really threaten anything itself. Aldo showed off a cool cotton gaurd set, forgot if it ran defog tho. Driftblim isn't good either for similar reasons. Strength sap is more annoying than it is actually good and drift often requires a tera too. Lurantis is kind of threatening with leaf storm, but it still isn't a good pokemon itself due to poor speed, it is very prone to just being overrun. It has good mu's into common rockers tho. Braviary might not be that bad, i can't say I've tried it and its bulk is decent at 100/75/75. Also as U-turn. I think the biggest reason why im hesitant to calling it good is the normal typeing really hurts it. Lots of teams use their flying types to deal with the insane fighting of RU but braviary just gets owned. Avlugg is far to passive, cryogonal has deceptively bad stats topped with an awful defensive typing, coal is not a good spinner, loses to all ghosts, and tatsugiri is dogshit and unremarkable. There is a reason why no one has been using it in kickoff tour.

:whiscash:
ru is unique as whiscash finally has a niche in a metagame, a very good one. Offering both rocks and spikes are incredibly valuable in a tier with such poor removal options. Oblivious allows it to spike on opposing leads like froslass and lycanroc. ywt used it in conjunction with sableye on a balance and that works well enough. I am just very happy my favorite pokemon gets to be good.

:dachsbun:
Very good whispasser. The first time i ever saw this thing was when i played togkey and ever since I've been a fan. togkey used press/wish/tect/yawn which i think is its best set. Yawn prevents set up in the early game and body press takes advantage of the crappy steels. It can also outspeed mag too ensuring the faster press. well-baked-body is a solid ability that supports its body press, leads to a really strong mu against tauros-fire. tera steel is what i have been running and that also compliments nicely with well-baked-body.

:revavroom:
Decent steel-type option, I again saw togkey use it and i like it. Lots of teams are not prepared for toxic and it being one of the few to learn it makes it quite good. coupled with parting shot and it is quite decent pivot. Spin out is a decent move and it works well with its pivoting since it can go slower. Filter is just the cherry on top. Pairs well with dachsbun too making a strong defensive core.

:goodra:
Goodra is good! I think scarf goodra is very good and i would suggest trying it. It offers defensive utility as it goes quite well into rotom, can take a boomburst after rocks from specs toxt. Goodra, like garde, also takes advantage of the poor steels of RU, id recommend running tera dragon to pack an extra punch on those dracos. It fails to break any special walls like blissey tho, maybe focus punch idk.

:blissey:
for w/e reason, ppl think blissey is bad when it is fine. I think they try to argue that its supposed to beat mismag and other ghosts, when a) it can use t-wave to effectively take them out of the game and b) its not its job. it is meant to soak special attacks not beat stallbreakers. It goes quite well into rotoms, goodra, toxt (assuming u run special bulk which you should), arboliva, frosmoth, venomoth, and other special attackers.

:magnezone:
I think there are two main viable sets, specs analytic or some kind of special defense pivot. Magnetpull is very bad,no reason to run it, it requires a tera to actually beat steels which isn't worth it ever. Analytic on the other hand beats all grounds and can fire powerful volt switches on other special walls. spdef pivot is also good as it can work as a garde check and do other steel things. volt/discharge/flash/tect is a good set, tect gives extra lefties and can scout. there are some very popular teams that don't run a ground type and this just goes in. Ill also add it tanks ttoxt's attacks quite well.

:sableye:
Fantastic pokemon, can 6-0 teams itself. beats cheese, really good option.

:venomoth:
Another really strong pokemon, it really is like ru's volcarona. Seems to have gone under the radar a bit but it still does venomoth things. Different teras can help it against priority too.


that's all hope u enjoyed
Okay maybe I’m dumb, but I don’t get the argument that Avalugg is passive. It has Ice + Fighting Coverage, 117 base Attack, and one of the strongest Body Presses in the game. I would argue more against its typing and reliance on Tera.
 
Okay maybe I’m dumb, but I don’t get the argument that Avalugg is passive. It has Ice + Fighting Coverage, 117 base Attack, and one of the strongest Body Presses in the game. I would argue more against its typing and reliance on Tera.
He has the big problem that his most damaging option on Body Press is also stoped from the same Ghost type that block is Rapid Spin. Also his low speed, bad typing and lack of spdef get pray on from a big part of the tier.
Terrastal help but is a broken tools that help most pokemon and using in a defensive mons is most of the time worst that on ofensive mons and Avalugg is a defensive mons that need Terrastal to be viable.
Rn the only thing that make running Avalugg "viable" is the presence of Haxorus and the lack of defensive option the tier have against him
 
RU ISN'T IN ALPHA ANYMORE! BYE HAXORUS! BYE LYCANDUSK!

We lose Magnezone to UU

We gain Alomomola, Charizard, Ditto and Klefki
 
RU ISN'T IN ALPHA ANYMORE! BYE HAXORUS! BYE LYCANDUSK!

We lose Magnezone to UU

We gain Alomomola, Charizard, Ditto and Klefki
BYE TOXTRICITY TOO PLEASE

It was pretty obvious we were losing some pokemon, but Magnezone will be happy in UU. Ditto will fall imo but it's still nice having it everywhere. Charizard will not be good, Klefki will be interesting and Alomomola can be really great.
 
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