Lower Tiers RBY Tradebacks Metagame Hub

[NotVeryCake]

nope has to be a tier (lapras can be TBsUUBL)

The discord just had a (small) discussion about this, it doesnt have to, it just usually ends up being drawn at a tier

 

[Tree69420]

In my opinion the cutoff line for OU/UU is directly beneath Lapras or Nidoking

thats not how tiering works

 

[Teh]

After some discussion in the Discord server, the majority consensus was that the OU cutoff should be below B2. With that sorted out, that means Tradebacks UU is now official (for real!) The VR in the main post was also updated to reflect this.

Expect a TBs UU tournament in the coming months. Hopefully.

 

[Teh]

Potential New Threats in Tradebacks UU
​

With the new VR, I thought it would be a fun idea to take a look at some of the potential new threats in a hypothetical Tradebacks UU meta. This 'guide' is 90% vibes, so please take it with a grain of salt. I do think I can reasonably predict some meta-game staples though. I'm also only going to go over mons that gain noticeable additions to their move-pools, so I won't be including the likes of Kadabra, Dragonite, Kangaskhan, etc.

Tier Changes:

• Persian is not legal in this version of UU thanks to it being actually good in OU. Hypno also remains illegal in UU.​
• Lapras has risen from the dead and is now haunting the tier.​
• AgilWrap (Agility + Partial Trapping) is no longer banned.​
• Sleep-inducing moves are also legal (normal UU is likely going to legalize sleep again soon, so this won't be a difference for much longer.)​

The New Toys:

Sample Set

• Surf
• Growth
• Acid Armor
• Rest

Probably the most interesting change to the tier. Vaporeon can't really cut it in OU thanks to stiff competition as a set-up sweeper with Slowbro, but in the UU landscape there's nothing else like it. Lapras now acts as fodder for Vaporeon to set up Growth, and Rest becomes super free to use with Persian out of the tier. I don't expect Vaporeon to take over the meta but it seems like a far better option even in spite of Lapras being in the tier.

Sample Sets

• Fire Blast
• Body Slam / Low Kick / Fire Spin
• Hyper Beam
• Hypnosis

• Fire Blast
• Body Slam / Confuse Ray / Fire Spin
• Hyper Beam
• Hypnosis

I can't really confidently say which of the fire-types will end up being the best, but what I do know is that at least one of them will likely be influential in the meta. Rapidash is the new fastest sleeper in the tier with an impressive 105 Speed, beating out Tentacruel and tying with Kadabra. Ninetales, while only 100 Speed, has a much better Special and access to Confuse Ray, at the cost of a worse Attack stat. If I had to guess, I would say Rapidash will probably edge it out, thanks to its better match-up into Kadabra.

Sample Set

• Earthquake
• Double-Edge / Rock Throw
• Hyper Beam
• Fire Blast

Aerodactyl gains access to an incredible new move in Earthquake, letting it (potentially) soar up in viability. Earthquake lets Aerodactyl actually revenge-kill things rather than just hitting like a wet noodle. Doing super-effective damage against Fire-, Poison-, Electric-, and Rock-types is incredible for it. Rock Throw also lets it hit itself, as well as the legendary birds for super-effective damage. However, if the tier ends up becoming dominated by the likes of Lapras and Vaporeon, Aerodactyl might struggle to make much progress.

Sample Set

• Lovely Kiss / Amnesia
• Earthquake
• Blizzard
• Thunderbolt

Nidoking gets some incredible moves in Tradebacks, being the infamous Amnesia and Lovely Kiss. However, both are illegal on the same set, forcing it to choose one over the other. Nidoking's Ground-typing lets it switch into the Electric-types and Thunder Waves fairly well, and gives it a free opportunity to fire off Lovely Kiss thanks to its solid Speed stat. Amnesia, while likely to not be used as often, seems like a decent surprise option. Unfortunately, while it has a decent speed tier, it has a lot of checks that out-speed it, like Kangaskhan, Tentacruel, and Kadabra.

Sample Set

• Thunderbolt
• Surf
• Thunder Wave
• Sing

Raichu, of NUBL fame, finally has a niche in UU with the addition of Sing to it's move pool. It's the only Electric-type in the game with access to a sleep-inducing move, making it incredibly effective at pushing sleep past the many water types of the tier. Its 100 Speed stat is also incredibly nice, giving it multiple opportunities to click Sing even if it misses the first time. Surf also lets it deal super-effective damage to Ground-types, which typically foil most Electric-types.

 

[NotVeryCake]

Dragonite kinda good ngl (UU)

 

[Toxin boost]

surprised nobody mentioned this yet but Mr. mime is definitely gonna be centralizing if not downright busted in uu, a fast decently strong psychic type with sleep, paralysis and great coverage sounds pretty good

 

[NotVeryCake]

surprised nobody mentioned this yet but Mr. mime is definitely gonna be centralizing if not downright busted in uu, a fast decently strong psychic type with sleep, paralysis and great coverage sounds pretty good

Can it really be considered "busted" if its made of paper on the physical side, and unlike Kadabra it lacks recovery for stray hits.

 

[Toxin boost]

Can it really be considered "busted" if its made of paper on the physical side, and unlike Kadabra it lacks recovery for stray hits.

Idk I think there's an argument to be made for sure although it's just vibes right now like teh said. it's not made of paper for one as it can take two dugtrio earthquakes and is never ohko'ed by dodrio beam as well it can use counter to completely turn the tables on normal moves aka most of them.
It's stats are pretty mid but fine by uu standards just look at kadabra and kadabra sure doesn't have thunderbolt ice punch or hypnosis and was already cracked. who knows it might end up being one of those mons that pop sleep get paralyzed in the process and then sit around all game until death fodder is needed but I lean more towards broken. although it will be really aggravating to use and play against that much is certain.

 

[NotVeryCake]

Idk I think there's an argument to be made for sure although it's just vibes right now like teh said. it's not made of paper for one as it can take two dugtrio earthquakes and is never ohko'ed by dodrio beam as well it can use counter to completely turn the tables on normal moves aka most of them.
It's stats are pretty mid but fine by uu standards just look at kadabra and kadabra sure doesn't have thunderbolt ice punch or hypnosis and was already cracked. who knows it might end up being one of those mons that pop sleep get paralyzed in the process and then sit around all game until death fodder is needed but I lean more towards broken. although it will be really aggravating to use and play against that much is certain.

My point is just that you cant just start getting trigger happy with quickbans and suspects for a meta that frankly has had less than 3 games played of it. People not only need to start playing it but it also needs given time to settle before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Toxin boost]

My point is just that you cant just start getting trigger happy with quickbans and suspects for a meta that frankly has had less than 3 games played of it. People not only need to start playing it but it also needs given time to settle before jumping to conclusions.

Incorrect your point was to put up a counter argument against mine and I responded by expanding upon my first post and acknowledging that you might be correct but that I still currently disagree. if you meant that people shouldn't jump to bans immediately then 1 that's pretty presumptuous and 2 you should have just said so in the first place, yet you didn't which is kinda cringe.
if I had meant to try and ban mime I would have said so I have no issues saying what's on my mind when it's appropriate I just wanted to bring up mime since nobody said nothing about it (I checked the discord like 5 minutes later and felt like an idiot) and I casually brought up that it might be broken, perhaps a poor choice of words but I'm really not pushing for a ban.
I'm not trying to pick a fight but it does bother me when people say things that are so untrue in an attempt to seem smarter than they are, just be yourself people that judge are less than you regardless, and for the record I completely agree bans are ridiculous in a tier that was created about 8 hours ago.

 

[NotVeryCake]

Incorrect your point was to put up a counter argument against mine and I responded by expanding upon my first post and acknowledging that you might be correct but that I still currently disagree. if you meant that people shouldn't jump to bans immediately then 1 that's pretty presumptuous and 2 you should have just said so in the first place, yet you didn't which is kinda cringe.
if I had meant to try and ban mime I would have said so I have no issues saying what's on my mind when it's appropriate I just wanted to bring up mime since nobody said nothing about it (I checked the discord like 5 minutes later and felt like an idiot) and I casually brought up that it might be broken, perhaps a poor choice of words but I'm really not pushing for a ban.
I'm not trying to pick a fight but it does bother me when people say things that are so untrue in an attempt to seem smarter than they are, just be yourself people that judge are less than you regardless, and for the record I completely agree bans are ridiculous in a tier that was created about 8 hours ago.

I assumed "busted" meant banworthy.
Edit: For more context I thought you were talking about bans because some other people were talking about quickbanning Lapras in a tier that has been played <10 times.

 

[Teh]

dis is da tradebacks OU hub...

Good news!

 

[NotVeryCake]

Going off complete vibes alone this is who who I see being good in UU;
The Queen of the tier, checks like half the tier, has Sing, Thunderbolt, and STAB Blizzard as well as that good ol' gargantuan bulk.
He is suprisingly good when like over half of the tier is slower than him and APT is legal.
Acid Armor + Growth shenanigans, exploitable by Dragonite, Lapras Victreebel and Venusaur who just kind of take nothing from its hits, though can spiral out of control if opponent doesnt know how to properly contain it.
Is probably the best if not close to the best Electric-type in the tier after gaining Sing, which lets it go two for one with sleep into Thunder Waving the switch in.
Gained Headbutt so it now doesnt have to run Take Down to hit Dugtrio without drawbacks, it can also do ParaFlinch shenanigans.
Has Hypnosis now, which lets it sleep something such as Kadabra and then hit the switchin with a TWave and strong Psychic.
and Both are Fire-types that gained Hypnosis, Rapidash is fast and has a higher attack stat than Ninetales, and Ninetales has better bulk and has a higher special than Rapidash.
Some people hyped him up and made him seem like he might be good with Earthquake but he is really just not, losses to like nearly all of the shit I've mentioned above.
and They didnt gain any interesting new moves with TBs, but they outspeed Lapras and Vaporeon and 2HKO both with Razor Leaf. Venusaur has higher speed and better physical bulk, and Victreebel has a pivoting tool and Stun Spore.

 

[Kaosdone]

Does Anyone Every Play Tradebacks Ubers? Ive never really seen anyone mention it.

 

[Teh]

An interesting idea that was proposed by Sabelette on Discord earlier today. I don't completely oppose it either. Neither Tradebacks or Stadium have been particularly active metas, and this change might produce an actually active tier. Of course, this means saying goodbye to tradeback movesets with cart-RBY mechanics, but it might be for the better with the wider distribution of sleep-inducing moves.

Would love to hear other people's input on this as well.

 

[NotVeryCake]

View attachment 584541

An interesting idea that was proposed by Sabelette on Discord earlier today. I don't completely oppose it either. Neither Tradebacks or Stadium have been particularly active metas, and this change might produce an actually active tier. Of course, this means saying goodbye to tradeback movesets with cart-RBY mechanics, but it might be for the better with the wider distribution of sleep-inducing moves.

Would love to hear other people's input on this as well.

Imo I don't want such a fun meta such as Tradebacks being weighed down by how awful Stadium is. No one would bat an eye if Stadium died a slow meaningless death but Tradebacks atleast has a semblence of people playing it.

 

[Ortheore]

Personally I'm strongly in favour of rby, rby tradebacks, stadium and stadium tradebacks all existing. You could even put together a Gen 1 team tour if you're into that thing. I just think it's neat that we have these different combinations of playable formats that all have legit arguments for existing and being played.

That said, this is a bunch of just talk from me, given that I don't currently play anything except RBY (and even then I barely have time for it)

 

[phoopes]

Yeah I don’t know if there’s a great solution here that gets people playing metas other than standard OU. Stadium and Tradebacks are both kind of interesting but underexplored, however idk if making “StadBacks” (a fourth, even further underexplored meta) a replacement for both of them makes much sense. I don’t know if anyone’s even played a game of StadBacks on the sim ever, and Mel brings up a good point about legality with the purple names. It’s super niche since no one has played this meta but still.

I think a team tour is eh, because how would you even draft anyone lol especially for StadBacks. Volk brought up on discord the other day about yearly Stadium and Tradebacks tours, perhaps we could add a third with StadBacks if we can get the legality thing coded on PS. These “Alternative OU” Metagames are interesting to think about at the very least, so maybe we should give them a shot in some form even if we already have a ton of tours. (But then what about NC97, NC98, and NC99 too… lol)

In short, I think we should keep all the alternative OU metas separate, though at least try to develop them a bit. If not with forum tours then at least with side tours on Discord. It’s tough when there’s so many playable metas to sink your teeth into but it could be fun!

 

[Bedal Roscoe]

Is RBY Tradebacks eligible to be a RoA spotlight tier ?