Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

Amaranth

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Why is paralysis way more common here than in any higher gen? It doesn't mechanically change in higher gens (at least until gen 7 and only a minor change in gen 6)
why paralysis is great in RBY:
in RBY games are extremely slow and teams are extremely hard to break; if you can attempt a sequence that doesn't risk anything on your end but has a 25% chance to lose for your opponent (full para), you try for it. if it works, great, if it doesn't work, back to square one, try to create that situation again until it does. all the other progress making tools really work in much the same way (critical hits, freeze fishing, hitting a lot of clamps in a row before your opponent can heal / counterattack your cloyster, etc), with explosion being the only big exception
the best pokemon in the tier also happen to have a way to induce paralysis between thunder wave and body slam, with few exceptions, which makes this approach dominant / near mandatory.
there are no other real ways to play rby; boomspam is a vague 'rival archetype', but it's the only offense option available, it's relatively inconsistent, and it probably still likes having the ability to paralyze tauros/alakazam when necessary. there's also no way to play stall in the real sense of the word (eg clearing all status and creating those situations where your defenses are unbreakable and the enemy team will slowly be chipped to death) because (1) your defenses are very breakable at all times between explosions, FP chances, freeze chances, crit chances and so on, and (2) it's very hard to chip things to death in RBY with no access to hazards, toxic being giganerfed, no sand, and having to fight against 32 PP recover as well as chansey every game. full wrap theoretically is an option that doesn't need paralysis, but it's still vastly better off with it as it needs it to bring fast mons down to a speed tier that's actually wrappable; and also it's full wrap, i hope i don't need to elaborate on its inconsistencies

why these things aren't true in other gens:
gen 2 has restalk everywhere making twave pretty irrelevant; it also doesn't do much to the omnipresent curse sweepers etc. all the dominant playstyles have very natural counters to paralysis
gen 3 and upwards things are less bulky by default (no more 252 hp 252 def 252 spdef on every pokemon), choice band exists, sand artificially reduces the bulk of lots of mons by 6%/turn etc, which makes direct attacking generally a better idea than it is in RBY. also, better paralysis absorbers exist and happen to be high presence (swampert and other grounds that you end up running to check aerodactyl/ttar anyways, natural cure starmie / blissey / celebi), while paralysis spreaders are less common, and most of them would rather run toxic anyways as it stops most setup all the same while also being a decent wallbreaking tool
gen 4 paraspam is a lot more common again; paralysis spreaders are better, paralysis abusers are better (welcome iron head jirachi and dynamic punch machamp), paralysis absorbers are much worse (flygon remains great but swampert, blissey, celebi, even milotic all tanked in viability; having a ground type isn't near mandatory anymore like it is in adv). it's not omnipresent because there are other playstyles that contend with it, but it's strong, arguably dominant
gen 5 is when the "why are you bothering with para moves when you could be oneshotting each other" effect really starts hitting hard. latios is ou and dracometeors everybody for a million, keldeo hydropumps in rain are a thing. the "defensive" mons are perfectly happy to take your twave as they'll get free hazards anyways as you do. bw is so unconductive to slow gradual status spread that even toxic is relatively uncommon. any sweeper that may care will simply run lum, and even moreso after the recent ban on gems they are free to do that
gen 6 and upwards the issue of damage creep remains present, twave eats nerf after nerf, and the game simply has better win conditions available
 
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Why is paralysis way more common here than in any higher gen? It doesn't mechanically change in higher gens (at least until gen 7 and only a minor change in gen 6)
Another thing is that speed ties are EVERYWHERE in RBY, moreso than later generations, since Stat Exp means every base 100 speed Pokémon will have 298 speed, and so on and so forth. Paralysis is the only consistent form of speed control in RBY. In later generations, you can try to speed creep things with bulkier Pokémon, and sweepers can run Choice Scarf or run Agility, but there were no held items in RBY, and Agility is rather uncommon, albeit incredibly good for those who learn it due to defying paralysis speed drop. If you can paralyze your opponent's Tauros somehow, your Tauros now wins the mirror match.
 
The people who run the RBY samples must feel very embarassed that Gen 1 UU is a spotlight ladder and none of the actual Gen 1 UU samples are up to date, let alone legal
 

Amaranth

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The people who run the RBY samples must feel very embarassed that Gen 1 UU is a spotlight ladder and none of the actual Gen 1 UU samples are up to date, let alone legal
you can make this point without any of the attitude, please be more respectful in the future or you may get infracted
I'll look for UUers who might be able to help to address this
 
This might not be a simple answer but...how are you supposed to use sleep? Let me ask in more detail.

I lead with Jynx, my opponent leads with Alakazam or Starmie. Should I just jam Lovely Kiss? What if it's Jynx versus Jynx? Is the deal with Sleep that it's so good that you don't care who you hit? Are there any situations in which you should switch to make anyone but your sleep lead take the hit?
 
All right, I'm asking because I'm tired of trading sleep for paralysis whenever the opponent opens with Starmie, Jolteon or Alakazam. Instead, I'm letting Chansey take it because that way it cannot be frozen, I keep my Jynx healthy and I can sleep something more useful. Is this a poor play then?
 

Amaranth

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All right, I'm asking because I'm tired of trading sleep for paralysis whenever the opponent opens with Starmie, Jolteon or Alakazam. Instead, I'm letting Chansey take it because that way it cannot be frozen, I keep my Jynx healthy and I can sleep something more useful. Is this a poor play then?
This is a reasonable line; paralyzed Chansey can sleepblock much more effectively than Jynx. It's not without flaws, as finding a clean turn for Jynx can be difficult, and Chansey could struggle mightily to actually survive the 1v1 with Jolteon / Alakazam and might need to switch out immediately again (TWaving them makes it much easier to survive the 1v1, but it's dangerous as the opponent could also read that and switch immediately to something that can block Jynx completely once paralyzed). But if you can manage it you do have a Paralyzed Chansey to block enemy sleep forever, and a Jynx to get your sleep just fine at some later point.
 
Has doing anything with Mewtwo ever been considered for RBY rands? I'm not saying it's necessary but a lot of the time it feels one sided and just feels shitty to have to deal with

It is manageable occasionally (I think I beat one by paralyzing it and spamming Slash on Farfetch'd) but I kind of question why it stays
 

phoopes

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Has doing anything with Mewtwo ever been considered for RBY rands? I'm not saying it's necessary but a lot of the time it feels one sided and just feels shitty to have to deal with

It is manageable occasionally (I think I beat one by paralyzing it and spamming Slash on Farfetch'd) but I kind of question why it stays
You can discuss RBY Random Battle sets in this thread. I doubt there'll be a ban but maybe if you make a compelling enough case they'll consider lowering its level.
 
How come no Pokemon that learns Flamethrower actually uses it? A lessened burn chance is arguably a positive in some matchups, and Fire Blast has really frustrating accuracy

And on a related note, what does Flareon do in OU? It has its own OU strategy dex entry. I find it an intriguing idea to use it but it has low coverage and speed and doesn't do anything to Rhydon other than possibly burn it

Also is there any reason to use Quick Attack? I lost to it on a Jolteon once that was paralyzed on the last turn of the game and will never live it down. Also asking for the Flareon thing because it has a lot of Atk honestly and I could see it wanting QAttack
 
How come no Pokemon that learns Flamethrower actually uses it? A lessened burn chance is arguably a positive in some matchups, and Fire Blast has really frustrating accuracy

And on a related note, what does Flareon do in OU? It has its own OU strategy dex entry. I find it an intriguing idea to use it but it has low coverage and speed and doesn't do anything to Rhydon other than possibly burn it

Also is there any reason to use Quick Attack? I lost to it on a Jolteon once that was paralyzed on the last turn of the game and will never live it down. Also asking for the Flareon thing because it has a lot of Atk honestly and I could see it wanting QAttack
What Melbelle said about FBlast I agree with, aside from saying Molt is the only viable fire, Flareon is usable. 120 STAB is almost always worth it, especially when you look at what Blizzard does for Ice types

As for Flareon it's best described as a wallbreaker, denting things with FB and pivoting out with FSpin to prevent retaliation, or recovery in the case of Chansey. Its speed is actually not that big of an issue since it outspeeds almost half the tier anyway. Similarly Don's not the end of the world- as you noted it risks a burn, but it also gets 4hkoed by FB, which is decent chip (also pretty much all Fire types share similar Don issues). It also has decent special bulk and is neutral to the 3 main special attacking types which is neat.

Ofc it's physically frail, so if physical attackers can come in without getting hit by FB they can threaten it. Also even though its typing is neutral to a lot of stuff, it still has no relevant resistances, so it can be hard to bring in. Offensively it struggles with Star and its inability to reliably spread status.

As for Quick Attack, it's not really viable as it just doesn't have enough damage. I'd say moves like that only really became usable once EVs were introduced so not everything had max bulk. The only scenario I think it can be used is on lead Flareon - FB doesn't OHKO Jynx, but it does leave it in range of Quick Attack. Lead Flare is ultra gimmicky in general though and it's also dependent on people not expecting QA (admittedly that should always hold true)
 
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Sabelette

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Doesn’t really make sense to rank different sets given that they’re entirely team dependent, the best you could really do is rank them by usage and that still doesn’t really say anything by itself without looking at the full team
 
I was thinking more from a resource point of where a new or returning player could read through a thread solely where the more experienced players wax lyrical about the different Chancey set ups. A bit more up to date and meta-dependent than the Smogon entries.
 
Does Mr. Mime do anything in OU? Thunderbolt makes it like a mini-Starmie, and it isn't weak to Thunderbolt, also has interesting stuff like Counter and SToss. It seems like it'll do the french salute to any physical attack though, and its stats are pretty alright but not super amazing
 
Double post but this place hasn't been very active for weeks so yeah

Is there much of a reason why the sim uses the VC Jynx sprite over the cartridge one? Were there any complaints about it? Did they just see that they replaced the sprite and decided to change it accordingly? It's probably a minor question but i've been wondering about it for a while

Screenshot 2023-01-05 9.49.38 AM.png
 

emma

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Does Mr. Mime do anything in OU? Thunderbolt makes it like a mini-Starmie, and it isn't weak to Thunderbolt, also has interesting stuff like Counter and SToss. It seems like it'll do the french salute to any physical attack though, and its stats are pretty alright but not super amazing
Mr. Mime is unviable in RBY OU. Zero usage in a major tournament (SPL / WCOP / Invitational), going as far back as as SPL VI in 2015 (the earliest major tournament with usage stats I could find).
Double post but this place hasn't been very active for weeks so yeah

Is there much of a reason why the sim uses the VC Jynx sprite over the cartridge one? Were there any complaints about it? Did they just see that they replaced the sprite and decided to change it accordingly? It's probably a minor question but i've been wondering about it for a while

I don't know the exact reason, but I would guess it has to due with the Original Jynx Sprite's Controversy.
 
Is there much reason to try to use Exeggutor's Double-Edge sidegrades? I remember trying Egg Bomb and it sucking, Strength seems potentially interesting, but I don't know what KOs Exeggutor loses from missing out on 20 BP, or if it's worth the tradeoff of not taking extra damage
 

Serpi

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Is there much reason to try to use Exeggutor's Double-Edge sidegrades? I remember trying Egg Bomb and it sucking, Strength seems potentially interesting, but I don't know what KOs Exeggutor loses from missing out on 20 BP, or if it's worth the tradeoff of not taking extra damage
I would definitely say no, mainly because Eggy doesn't mind the recoil as much as it would mind eating a Twave or even a Jynx Blizzard because of a missed KO due to low base power or an Egg Bomb miss. When Eggy is trying to punish a paralyzed Jynx/Zam/Chansey blocking its sleep, it really needs the moves that make it happen quickly with the highest probability of immediate success, and those are Double-Edge and Hyper Beam.

As for important calcs that come to mind, the main purpose of Double-Edge is definitely to push sleep through Jynx after your lead Psychic paralyzes it. However, Strength misses the 2HKO on a Jynx that has been hit by Zam Seismic Toss, while the roll to 2HKO a Jynx that has been hit by Starmie Surf seems to be about 50/50. This means that Double-Edge leaves you in a pretty decent position if Jynx misses the first Lovely Kiss on your lead (since it gets the 2HKO in these situations) while Strength isn't strong enough to do the same for you - and of course Egg Bomb accuracy would also be very annoying in this scenario.
 
Damn am I the only one who posts here lol

Anyway, on NU: Does Poliwag have any chance of filling the hole its older cousins left empty, or even going up to NUBL? It shares its speed with Poliwhirl and has the same moves but has significantly worse bulk (65/65/50 was already pretty bad but 40/40/40 is a lot worse). It also has worse attack (though Poliwhirl doesn't really use physical attacks that much anyway)
 
Why do 448 of the top 500 players on ladder have an elo of either 1500 or 1499 ? Has elo deflation occurred ? Is there no activity clause ?
 
For whatever reason elo decay doesn't seem to have a substantial impact for players 1500 and below. Because the ladder doesn't have a super high standard of competition, it's fairly common for players to jump on the ladder, easily reach 1500+ and then quit. Elo decay then lowers the rating to 1500/1499 and then stops applying, leading to a lot of congestion at that rating.

It'd be neat if there was a solution for not displaying all these inactive accounts, like if you don't have enough recent games to have a gxe you shouldn't appear on the list
 

Sabelette

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For whatever reason elo decay doesn't seem to have a substantial impact for players 1500 and below. Because the ladder doesn't have a super high standard of competition, it's fairly common for players to jump on the ladder, easily reach 1500+ and then quit. Elo decay then lowers the rating to 1500/1499 and then stops applying, leading to a lot of congestion at that rating.

It'd be neat if there was a solution for not displaying all these inactive accounts, like if you don't have enough recent games to have a gxe you shouldn't appear on the list
For oldgen ladders you lose 2 elo a day if you don't play and are >1500, so depending on if your elo was odd or even you will stop decaying at 1500 or 1499. Would be nice if after a huge amount of inactivity you got removed.
 
What's the general consensus on subsplosion etiquette ?

I used substitute on the same turn an opponent used explosion on me. This obviously results in me taking 25% damage and their pokemon stays alive.
They then proceeded to basically wait out until I KO'd their pokemon
This surprised me, since I thought buggy mechanics like this were seen as just being part of playing gen 1

I'm just wondering if this is a widespread cultural idea or just that one player
 

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