Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

Hipmonlee

Have a nice day
is a Community Contributoris a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Four-Time Past WCoP Champion
The easiest thing to start with is usually Jynx lead. You dont really have to worry about forming a plan for sleep. You just click lovely kiss until it hits.

So, for a "first ever team" I would go with Jynx. But, you will need to move on reasonably quickly once you start to get a hang of the basics of competitve Pokemon.
 

Amaranth

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
I've played a few games here and there on Showdown, but have never really gotten into competitive Pokmemon beyond that and was thinking of putting a bit more time into it and learning through RBY.

With the sample teams for RBY OU broken down into three categories (Exeggutor, Sing Chansey, and Jynx teams) is there any recommended category for someone new not just to RBY but competitive Pokemon in general to start? Are there any lead options between the four across all the sample teams (Starmie, Alakazam, Gengar, Jynx) that would be best to start with? Or are there no real differences between all those teams when it comes to learning both the generation and Pokemon in general?
all of those teams are good, i think the best of the samples for learning is probably this one as it teaches you how to play with and around the key psychic-types - but as Hipmonlee said the Jynx builds are decent too as they simplify the complex sleep dynamics and you have to worry about one less thing at the very very start. maybe start from one of them, and then move to the paste I linked once you have a grasp on the big pillars of the metagame.

I really want to learn how to play a Wrap Dragonite team because the RBY mechanics of wrap sound fun to play with, but should I really avoid trying to start out with more of a niche team because I wouldn't be able to get the hang of things without first learning the game more (by playing more standard with a starter team)?
The more niche something is, the harder it is to make it work. Learn the rules before you try to break them is my general advice. You're of course allowed to try Dragonite teams for fun, but you should know you're in for a difficult time as even the very best players can't make that sort of strategy consistent.
 
Does Tentacruel achieve much in OU? Its UU strategy dex entry makes it sound fucking amazing, but I don't see it ranked a lot on tier lists. Is it the typing? Because if it is that's fair

EDIT: I just remembered that this thing 2HKOes Lax with Hydro Pump like holy shit
 

Amaranth

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
Does Tentacruel achieve much in OU? Its UU strategy dex entry makes it sound fucking amazing, but I don't see it ranked a lot on tier lists. Is it the typing? Because if it is that's fair

EDIT: I just remembered that this thing 2HKOes Lax with Hydro Pump like holy shit
that'd be cool if it was true Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. Snorlax: 191-225 (36.5 - 43%)


tentacruel just really cannot play vs starmie alakazam jolteon at all, hates gengar, and tauros outspeeds + OHKOs with crit EQ, making it extremely hard for it to ever do anything it's meant to do
the speed jump compared to, say, cloyster, only really gives him a few mons in practice (zapdos, jynx, cloyster himself) none of which too valuable, and having to take psychic + ground weaknesses and much worse physical bulk for your trouble just isn't worth it
even in its dream scenarios it still probably needs to hit a ton of wraps and hydropumps to make it work; too many things are just better than it in the OU environment

tentacruel is indeed thanos in UU, where instead of starmie and tauros and alakazam it's being checked by dugtrio and kadabra and persian and other much weaker mons that he can actually play against with relative ease. not to mention it's a much more immediate offensive threat given that hard walls to it are much harder to come by. also not to mention things are almost always sleeping in OU and they can be woken up on wraps, while UU is much more fast paced and sleep's been banned and even using rest on bulkier stuff like Hypno has gotten rarer and rarer recently, so there's little your opponent can do to counterplay your wrapping
 
Since only legendaries can have flawless DVs in RBY, but all other Gen I Pokémon (except Ditto I suppose) can have flawless DVs by way of breeding in Gen II and trading back to Gen I, are 15/15/15/15 DV Pokémon such as Snorlax legal in RBY play? What's the consensus here?
 
Can someone explain where this sprite jolteon is from :y/jolteon:

When using the command :y/joleon: (but spelling it right) it gives this sprite

This is the sprite from showdown however which is suppose to be yellow
135.png
 
First of all it's all Pokemon not found through encounters that can have perfect DVs, which does include legendaries but also other methods like in-game trades. Secondly, yes, a perfect DV Snorlax is legal. The official council consensus is that trading from GSC to RBY is legal only for DVs.

Which breaks the whole "RBY meta was locked when GSC came out so GSC can't affect the meta" argument against tradebacks but I digress.

I think a perfect Ditto is possible in GSC through just normal encounters too? idk
I think consensus is maybe a bit strong, also iirc there are some wrinkles in regards to pokemon that can't breed. That said it's undoubtedly one of the more prevalent arguments. You could also make the same point in regards to glitches that max DVs, since abusing glitches is probably a more efficient way of preparing a team if you're playing on cart, even if the team you're building can theoretically be obtained normally

Another argument I've seen is that Showdown doesn't implement other comparable limitations, which is true but still kinda dumb, because we absolutely should implement those other restrictions.

The other thing is that there's a significant number of people that support deliberately modifying the game, that don't try to justify not implementing DV restrictions

I personally think the DV restrictions should be implemented, but I'm in the minority on that one. Most people seem to prefer to pick and choose whether or not discoveries get implemented in order to avoid deviating from the rby they're used to, with some trying to rationalise that (I don't think it can be rationalised personally)
 

FriendOfMrGolem120

aka. FOMG
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Moderator
ban moves that break the game
To my knowledge this would currently be Counter, Psywave, as well as all moves that can thaw a frozen pokemon or alternatively, all moves that can cause a freeze. For the last category there technically would be ways to avoid desyncs by switching the frozen pokemon into a fire move - who would even want to use a fire move vs a frozen pokemon that is already on the field, right? - but in some cases this might not be possible (one player only having one pokemon left) or would be detrimental (only having burned/poisoned pokemon to switch to) or there normally would be prediction involved (Slowbro could set up Amnesia against a Snorlax it froze with Ice Beam or use Fire Blast against a potential Jynx switch in).

So we not only would be playing without Counter, but also without Fire Blast and we can't be sure that the ones we know about are the only moves that can potentially cause desyncs. What if it gets discovered that other commonly used moves could cause desyncs as well?
 
Why isn't Ice Beam/Reflect/Amnesia/Rest Lax very popular? I've been laddering with it and it practically decides the game if it gets set up (which isnt that hard because you're gonna get really bulky)
 

phoopes

I did it again
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Why isn't Ice Beam/Reflect/Amnesia/Rest Lax very popular? I've been laddering with it and it practically decides the game if it gets set up (which isnt that hard because you're gonna get really bulky)
Not the OU expert but I'll take a crack at this one.

Paralyzed Chansey is so common and it kind of just sits there and PP stalls you until you have no attacking moves left. You need to get pretty lucky to break through it (just looked and it's a 0.6% chance to 3HKO so you need it to full para 3-4 times in a row to KO depending on if you're para'd yourself or not), and paralyzed Starmie is just about the same as well, which is also very common. When two of the top 4 Pokemon sit there and waste your PP until you can't attack anymore, I don't think that's too good. Sure, you can freeze fish with it but as I said I'm probably just bringing in para'd Chansey or Starmie to deal with it. Or if I'm running Cloyster (especially Cloyster with Rest) then that's a good option too.

I think in general (insert attack)/Reflect/Amnesia/Rest Snorlax is just more annoying than anything. I've seen (insert attack) be all sorts of things, and all of them are pretty easy to deal with. I think that's why on Amnesia sets you'll see Body Slam run so often. Having that physical damage + chance for para on the non-Normals is just that good.
 
Not the OU expert but I'll take a crack at this one.

Paralyzed Chansey is so common and it kind of just sits there and PP stalls you until you have no attacking moves left. You need to get pretty lucky to break through it (just looked and it's a 0.6% chance to 3HKO so you need it to full para 3-4 times in a row to KO depending on if you're para'd yourself or not), and paralyzed Starmie is just about the same as well, which is also very common. When two of the top 4 Pokemon sit there and waste your PP until you can't attack anymore, I don't think that's too good. Sure, you can freeze fish with it but as I said I'm probably just bringing in para'd Chansey or Starmie to deal with it. Or if I'm running Cloyster (especially Cloyster with Rest) then that's a good option too.

I think in general (insert attack)/Reflect/Amnesia/Rest Snorlax is just more annoying than anything. I've seen (insert attack) be all sorts of things, and all of them are pretty easy to deal with. I think that's why on Amnesia sets you'll see Body Slam run so often. Having that physical damage + chance for para on the non-Normals is just that good.

Chansey isn't the reason for this snorlax short coming not even close.
It's usually not too hard to bait in chansey and remove it with eggy/gengar or to lure it with hyper beam starmie.

Not to mention twave chansey likely doesn't have sing so it won't feel as inclined to take paralysis and if it has both twave and sing then it only has
one attacking move which can easily be exploited with rhydon or cloyster for seismic toss and ice beam respectively.

And if chansey doesn't have twave then after an amnesia it's outspeed and is just a few unlucky turns away from losing, which will happen.
Chansey can still cause issues but the bigger problems are the ice/water types mainly cloyster but also lapras.

You don't want to setup snorlax until late game which basically makes it a 5 v 6 until you both have seen the opponents team determined snorlax can win and found a good turn to setup.

But the biggest issue is using this snorlax takes zero skill once it's setup and what that basicly means is your hoping the opponent doesn't crit you doesn't freeze you and doesnt full para you to death

It's kinda like slowbro but you lose a top three pokemon for a roll at the dice
 
It's kinda like slowbro but you lose a top three pokemon for a roll at the dice
Pretty much this.

Chansey and Starmie are an issue for it, especially if para'd. PPstalling definitely is an option, taking TankLax out isn't easy even for Tauros.


Not the OU expert but I'll take a crack at this one.

Paralyzed Chansey is so common and it kind of just sits there and PP stalls you until you have no attacking moves left. You need to get pretty lucky to break through it (just looked and it's a 0.6% chance to 3HKO so you need it to full para 3-4 times in a row to KO depending on if you're para'd yourself or not), and paralyzed Starmie is just about the same as well, which is also very common. When two of the top 4 Pokemon sit there and waste your PP until you can't attack anymore, I don't think that's too good. Sure, you can freeze fish with it but as I said I'm probably just bringing in para'd Chansey or Starmie to deal with it. Or if I'm running Cloyster (especially Cloyster with Rest) then that's a good option too.

I think in general (insert attack)/Reflect/Amnesia/Rest Snorlax is just more annoying than anything. I've seen (insert attack) be all sorts of things, and all of them are pretty easy to deal with. I think that's why on Amnesia sets you'll see Body Slam run so often. Having that physical damage + chance for para on the non-Normals is just that good.
Yeah, no Body Slam = unset for Snorlax IMO. Sure, you can win games with it and MonoIceLax can singlehandedly win you games but that doesn't mean it's optimal.
Body Slam/Psychic/Amnesia/Reflect is an option but you have to lose Rest in order to gain some coverage.
 

Amaranth

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
I think mono Ice Snorlax is actually a very reasonable pick at the moment, especially against people with little Cloyster usage. Like Slowbro, it loves that everyone is clicking sleep ASAP and it doesn't have to worry about it. It also loves that Starmies are going to sleep very often. With the ability to freeze Chansey and outright win on damage vs a huge section of the metagame (Snorlax, Tauros, Exeggutor, Rhydon, Zapdos, Jolteon, basically anything that isn't Water or Ice) it's got very good cleanup potential. But you have to accept that you aren't playing 'normal' RBY, you're playing for a very specific win condition, and that win condition does rely on luck a fair bit if you need a freeze to muscle past Chansey, as well as ofc a favorable match up. Very often it will run out of PP before managing to do all that it wants to do.
My favorite way to play it in the current meta is just sticking it in your standard Mie Egg Zap team. It flips a lot of Rhydon match ups on its head (Jynx Mie Don still a bit tricky unfortunately) and Zapdos makes the Cloy match ups much more winnable for Lax, as well as being another bullshit wincondition that can just hard carry a game if the Lax falls flat.
All in all it's certainly risky but I wouldn't call it outright unoptimal; though I definitely wouldn't think about bringing it vs anyone who's not known for low Cloyster usage as that match up turns miserable so quickly.
 
Is Aerodactyl not reservable for analysis? It's probably not the best mon, but I think it's usable. It's also under the checks and counters in Snorlax's entry.

I've attempted to make a rough draft for an analysis for it. I'd still have to go through the grammar and standards check.
[OVERVIEW]
Aerodactyl has a unique typing in Rock/Flying which allows it to resist Normal moves and be immune Ground type moves. Its typing can allow it to act as a pivot and encourage other Pokémon to use less powerful moves as it switches into another Pokémon. Its typing also allows it to act as an Explosion/Self Destruct sponge and, most notably, to wall common Snorlax sets as Body Slam is a possible 5HKO. It has a high base speed at 130 with a 25.39% crit rate and a decent 105 attack, allowing it to out speed the majority of the tier and threaten Pokémon with potential Critical hits. It can pick off weakened Pokémon and provide important chip damage. Because it is likely to be difficult for Snorlax KO it, with good prediction, it can potentially switch into Sleep inducing moves and act as sleep fodder as it can sit in front of Snorlax, waiting to wake up. It has a 45% chance to wake up in 4 turns. With paralysis support or through taking advantage of a sleeping Pokémon, it can have a 52% chance to wake up in 5 turns, and a 100% chance to wake up in 6 turns.

However, Aerodactyl has a myriad of issues. It is rather frail, leading it to be hit hard by Special attacks and non-resisted physical attacks. It has no non-charging STAB options and lacks viable coverage outside of Fire Blast and Sky Attack. It is walled by Rock types and since its most powerful STAB move, Sky Attack, signals what its next move will be, Electric and Rock types are easily able switch in. Unlike Porygon, Aerodactyl is likely to get paralyzed from Body Slam. Snorlax sets will sometimes run Ice-type moves or run rare coverage options such as Rock Slide, Thunderbolt, or Surf, all of which nail Aerodactyl.



[SET]
name: Rest
move 1: Fire Blast/Hyper Beam
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Sky Attack
move 4: Rest

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

This set is intended to allow Aerodactyl to wall common Snorlax sets to halt its progress, and threaten it with Critical hits and Burn. Fire Blast has a 30.1% chance to burn (ignoring accuracy) which allows it to potentially cripple Physical attackers such as Tauros, Rhydon, and Snorlax. Fire Blast deals more damage than Double-Edge to Rhydon, a common switch-in, which can bring it closer to KO range from special Super Effective Attacks. Aerodactyl's high crit rate aids in this further. Rock Slide from Rhydon in return will deal 70.2 - 82.6% Damage which Aerodactyl can potentially Rest off later. Fire Blast also does slightly more damage than Double-Edge against Tauros. Aerodactyl can use Fire Blast to attempt to chip and Burn opposing Tauros in order to put the Tauros mirror in your favor. Hyper Beam is an option to deal extra damage, though it can potentially leave Aerodactyl vulnerable. Fire Blast also deals more damage than Hyper Beam and Double Edge to a Snorlax with Reflect up. Sky Attack is a 140 base power Flying-type move that with an unfortunate 90% accuracy. This can be used to fish for crits against Reflect Snorlax nearly KOing it. Sky Attack can be charged against sleeping opponents in hopes to deal damage to the sleeping Pokémon or any Switch-ins. Rest removes paralysis and restores health to full. It is important to note that the speed drop from paralysis will remain after it rests. To also note, a burnt Snorlax will have its Attack stat halved until it switches after resting off a Burn.

Aerodactyl needs to be careful which moves it chooses as Hyper Beam and Sky Attack can put it in an unfavorable position and Fire Blast can burn the likes of Starmie which would preferably be paralyzed, frozen, or asleep. While Aerodactyl cannot cover all of Snorlax's sets, its teammates can make up for this weakness. For example the Rock/Water type Pokémon, Kabutops, resists Snorlax sets that only run Ice and Normal moves while ignoring Reflect with Slash. Kabutops also helps to deal with Rhydon as it can OHKO Rhydon with Surf.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Aerodactyl's options are very limited due to its Movepool.
Toxic may be an option to aid partial trapping teammates, as a more reliable status against Rhydon, or to pressure Reflect users such as Chansey.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Rock types** All of Aerodactyl's moves are resisted by Rock-types. Aerodactyl is hit hard by these Pokémon

**Electric types** Sky Attack is resisted by Electric-types. Aerodactyl is hit hard by these Pokémon

**Special Attacks** As Aerodactyl is frail, it will often need to switch-out with the threat of being severely damaged or OHKOd.







[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Billybobman, 11901715]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

Edit: I may have miscalculated the wake up probability, maybe, I'd have to think about it.
 
Last edited:
:kadabra: Has Kadabra been played around with? It has respectable stats despite being a downgrade to Alakazam (120/105 special offense is nice). Not sure if having 2 Alakazam is necessary though because it's really frail and kinda low on coverage
 
:kadabra: Has Kadabra been played around with? It has respectable stats despite being a downgrade to Alakazam (120/105 special offense is nice). Not sure if having 2 Alakazam is necessary though because it's really frail and kinda low on coverage
I've dabbled with it on ladder a while back, don't know of anyone else using it substantially. My thoughts are that it's usable, but not very good.

Having a second Zam is neat because Zam is the kind of pokemon that can theoretically brute force its way through some of its checks, so having a poor man's version of itself on the same team brings more firepower to that idea and can help overload said checks

The trouble is that building a team with both Zam and Kadabra is extremely awkward to say the least, unless you lead Zam. Lead Zam is more balanced, but diminishes the extent to which they support each other imo. If you don't lead Zam your team will have major defensive holes- my spin on this had literally no answer to Don and instead relied on offense to keep it in check (surprisingly, I hadn't written this off as unviable before moving on from the team)

It's also worth noting that the drop in stats from Zam to Kadabra is devastating to Kadabra's sweeping potential, since Tauros not only outspeeds it but OHKOs with Hyper Beam. For this reason I used Kadabra to support a Zam sweep, rather than the other way around.
 
I've dabbled with it on ladder a while back, don't know of anyone else using it substantially. My thoughts are that it's usable, but not very good.

Having a second Zam is neat because Zam is the kind of pokemon that can theoretically brute force its way through some of its checks, so having a poor man's version of itself on the same team brings more firepower to that idea and can help overload said checks

The trouble is that building a team with both Zam and Kadabra is extremely awkward to say the least, unless you lead Zam. Lead Zam is more balanced, but diminishes the extent to which they support each other imo. If you don't lead Zam your team will have major defensive holes- my spin on this had literally no answer to Don and instead relied on offense to keep it in check (surprisingly, I hadn't written this off as unviable before moving on from the team)

It's also worth noting that the drop in stats from Zam to Kadabra is devastating to Kadabra's sweeping potential, since Tauros not only outspeeds it but OHKOs with Hyper Beam. For this reason I used Kadabra to support a Zam sweep, rather than the other way around.
Could you use Kadabra as the lead? It'd probably be a bad lead because it's relatively slow (doesn't outspeed Starmie or Zam)
 
Could you use Kadabra as the lead? It'd probably be a bad lead because it's relatively slow (doesn't outspeed Starmie or Zam)
I guess? I haven't tried it because I was put off by its inferior speed, but I may be giving that too much weight, since it's not the end of the world if it doesn't outspeed them. There is also Gengar lead where speed unambiguously matters, but hardly anyone leads Gengar these days so that's probably not a huge deal
 
Is there any niche for Amnesia based Snorlax running Psychic over Ice Beam/Blizzard? It does worse against Rhydon and Eggy, but it can 2HKO Gengar at +2, and the 33% chance of special drop is easier to fish for than the 10% freeze. Nothing resists both Psychic AND Body Slam, even when digging thru lower viability rankings. Maybe helpful for teams trying to run something like Kingler, Starmie, or Jynx, where Rhydon's a bit of a nonissue to clean up (I'm aware Kingler's not that consistent of a pick, but it's still worth mentioning), or just to make Tauros' life a bit easier by baiting in Gengar and putting it in kill range for EQ
 
Why is paralysis way more common here than in any higher gen? It doesn't mechanically change in higher gens (at least until gen 7 and only a minor change in gen 6)
 
Why is paralysis way more common here than in any higher gen? It doesn't mechanically change in higher gens (at least until gen 7 and only a minor change in gen 6)
Most consistent status, full para's can help break through pokemon with recovery (Starmie/Zam), Paralyzed pokemon are also prone to being cleaned up late game by setup sweepers like Amnesia Slowbro or Wrap-like users. Toxic and burn also suck in RBY so Paralysis is more useful indirectly.
TL;DR Paralysis helps force progress with full paralysis and helps late game threats set up.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top