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I definitely need help theory crafting. I have attached a screenshot of the snake draft we are currently doing. You can see that Kyle (me) is up next. Dont worry about point totals at all, I have plenty of points left to draft 5-6 more pokemon. I just don't know which ones... lol
Here is where you come in. Lets talk.
So, I have been playing on the OU ladder with my team listed below at the bottom under the "I Currently Have:" section, and I've been substituting random Pokémon in just to see how it goes in my last slot (most commonly Tangela for grass resist and utility). And in general, I'm winning, but one thing is an issue.... CHANCEY. Now, I know this snake draft and league makes it so that only one person is allowed to have chancey, and the OU online ladder has one on every single team..... but obviously spc walls are kind of an issue for me on this team is appears. This whole snake draft introduced a meta different than OU. So the fact I feel like I'm doing well in the regular ladder makes me think ill do fine against off meta teams in this league with what I have currently.
These are the Pokémon I'm currently thinking of drafting last:(it should be noted, I will be drafting Pokémon until I run out of points to spend, so I should be getting 5-6 more potentially by the end of this. I just want to focus on my next 2 to 3 picks though. I doubt ill use any of the others I draft later.)
not in any particular order btw Tangela - Spc+Def tank with sleep, stun, growth, mega drain Aerodactyl - High speed+Crits and its just one of the last physical attackers left maybe Raticate - super fang is kinda dope cheese. Electrode - High speed, explosion Omastar - just a physical tank for me but its another water type which might be yikes. Arcanine - I do have a lack of fire types, and three of my mons are weak to grass, soooo. Idk this might be nice. Primape - All I can think of is.... kill chancey. lol Scyther - kill chancey mon again Vileplume - utility and grass resist for my team Electabuzz - I dont have a true electric type on the team
(and then whatever you guys reccomend I guess)
I Currently Have:
Jynx - Lead sleeper
- Lovely Kiss
- Blizzard
- Psychic
- Rest
Starmie - with this snake draft being random and two teams cant have the same mons, I think full coverage is really good. Ill listen to reasons to keep recover in place of something though.
- Psychic
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
Slowbro - in my opinion, this thing only fears God when it starts using amnesia lol
- Amnesia
- Surf
- Rest
- Thunder Wave
Dugtrio - high crits, late game sweep once the rest of my team has chipped away at enemy, and its electric immune for t-waves and my water switches.
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
- Hyper Beam
Clefable - probably my first switch after Jynx. It can tank spc atks, and also use counter efficiently imo. Willing to listen to other sets if you see better based on everyone else's teams.
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Counter
- Thunder Wave
Lets have a discourse in the comments and ill reply back to everything I can. I have to pick by this time tomorrow.
TLDR: I need to pick 2-3 more solid pokemon. Look at the attachment at the other teams that have been drafted so far and recommend some pokemon to me with a lil description. My team is the Kyle mons.
For future reference this kind of post would fit better in the Ladder/Jank thread (I know this isn't either of those things but it's where the more casual stuff belongs)
Moveset recommendations:
Psychic + Thunderbolt on Starmie is the only attacking combination you need here. Not having Recover or Thunder Wave makes Starmie really bad. Are you not able to change your moveset after the draft ends?
Jynx doesn't have the longevity to survive after using Rest (which is ran in OU because it lets Jynx wake up on Chansey). I would use Counter here for catch-22 situations against slower Normal/FIghting types like Snorlax and Machamp.
I don't understand what Toxic does on Dugtrio. Hyper Beam makes a little sense against Exeggutor but I don't think Toxic has any practical uses. Replace it with Body Slam to fish for paralysis on Dugtrio checks.
Replace Counter and Thunderbolt on Clefable for Body Slam and Hyper Beam. Special walls sit on it endlessly otherwise.
Team recommendations:
Haunter (PICK THIS ONE) stonewalls a lot of threatening Pokemon like Persian, Victreebell, and Venusaur. It's also just a good Special attacker in general. Explosion is weak but can be useful for breaking Special walls.
Electrode (OR THIS) is a good and will often force your opponent to run a Ground type (which you can exploit with your numerous Water and Ice types). Nice Zapdos check too.
Aerodactyl could be a funny mon that walls Normal-types that don't run Special coverage. Make sure to use Rest. Pair it with Haunter and you'll be able to handle every good Snorlax variant (I doubt they'll use AmnesiaLax)
Tangela could be nice vs. Golem and Rhydon if your opponent has a brain and clicks Body Slam instead of Earthquake. This is low priority though. Don't use Growth.
For future reference this kind of post would fit better in the Ladder/Jank thread (I know this isn't either of those things but it's where the more casual stuff belongs)
Moveset recommendations:
Psychic + Thunderbolt on Starmie is the only attacking combination you need here. Not having Recover or Thunder Wave makes Starmie really bad. Are you not able to change your moveset after the draft ends?
Jynx doesn't have the longevity to survive after using Rest (which is ran in OU because it lets Jynx wake up on Chansey). I would use Counter here for catch-22 situations against slower Normal/FIghting types like Snorlax and Machamp.
I don't understand what Toxic does on Dugtrio. Hyper Beam makes a little sense against Exeggutor but I don't think Toxic has any practical uses. Replace it with Body Slam to fish for paralysis on Dugtrio checks.
Replace Counter and Thunderbolt on Clefable for Body Slam and Hyper Beam. Special walls sit on it endlessly otherwise.
Team recommendations:
Haunter (PICK THIS ONE) stonewalls a lot of threatening Pokemon like Persian, Victreebell, and Venusaur. It's also just a good Special attacker in general. Explosion is weak but can be useful for breaking Special walls.
Electrode (OR THIS) is a good and will often force your opponent to run a Ground type (which you can exploit with your numerous Water and Ice types). Nice Zapdos check too.
Aerodactyl could be a funny mon that walls Normal-types that don't run Special coverage. Make sure to use Rest. Pair it with Haunter and you'll be able to handle every good Snorlax variant (I doubt they'll use AmnesiaLax)
Tangela could be nice vs. Golem and Rhydon if your opponent has a brain and clicks Body Slam instead of Earthquake. This is low priority though. Don't use Growth.
What a badass response. Thank you for that recommendation on the thread I should post too. I am a LONG time lurker without and account on here, so I didnt know where to post actually.
I am asking about changing moves before each match, because obviously this is where Starmie gets its power and I agree with what you are saying and what you are implying with the question you asked. Smart thinking. Asking the commish now if he will allow us to change moves, or once our team is drafted they are locked. Lots of potential counter play if I can swap before a match.
Already switched the counter and rest move, makes 100% sense.
Switched Body slam for Toxic. Do you think slash, or hyperbeam would be best for last move?
Made the corrections on clefable too. Youve been spot on with these recomendations.
So honestly, I have not considered Haunter, so ill have to ask what moveset you think would be appropriate with my team. And yes, electrode because of exploding on stuff that I am just generally have a hard time with, and dealing with Zap is nice too. I think rock slide dugtrio deals with it pretty nicely though, unless horn drill does more dmg than Im thinking.
You don't need Hypnosis considering you already have the best sleep-inducer in the game, so probably something like Psychic + Thunderbolt + Explosion + Night Shade/Mega Drain depending on the matchup. Night Shade for Exeggutor, Mega Drain for Rock/Ground types.
And yes, electrode because of exploding on stuff that I am just generally have a hard time with, and dealing with Zap is nice too. I think rock slide dugtrio deals with it pretty nicely though, unless horn drill does more dmg than Im thinking.
Dugtrio actually loses 1v1 against Zapdos, which is why I'm stressing that you get something to deal with Zapdos. Any Electric or Rock/Ground type will do, it's just that Electrode is a Zapdos check thats the best outside of dealing with Zapdos. Your next best Zapdos check is probably Graveler.
I would recommend getting Haunter first, then Aerodactyl, then hopefully Electrode if it still exists.
1. Before making a new thread like you did, please message one of the moderators of the forum for approval (me, Enigami, FriendOfMrGolem120, Serpi). We can either approve it or direct you to the right thread.
2. If it’s been a few hours and no one replies to your post, that’s okay, you don’t need to copy/paste the same post again elsewhere. Someone will probably reply eventually.
3. Teh is right, this is probably the thread for individual draft-related questions.
1. Before making a new thread like you did, please message one of the moderators of the forum for approval (me, Enigami, FriendOfMrGolem120, Serpi). We can either approve it or direct you to the right thread.
2. If it’s been a few hours and no one replies to your post, that’s okay, you don’t need to copy/paste the same post again elsewhere. Someone will probably reply eventually.
3. Teh is right, this is probably the thread for individual draft-related questions.
Thanks! Total newbie here! Not trying to step on toes. Thanks for the recommendations, and please feel free to message me again like this again if you see that my forum etiquette is out of line.
I've been testing Kadabra recently but it's going to be a while before I decide on where I think it sits in terms of viability- I'm considering restructuring my main team for it and I've barely tested it as a lead. So rather than sit on everything for fucking ages, here's all the other trash I've tested!
As I alluded to in my last post of this nature, Seaking is indeed an abyss-dweller, ranking alongside Golbat and Butterfree as the worst fully evolved non-Ditto Pokemon in the game. Being a water type, there's obviously a lot of competition and Seaking fails to carve a niche for itself. Its best bet is as an Agility sweeper, but even there Seadra nearly totally eclipses it, not to mention that Articuno exists. Seaking's different typing to Articuno and superior Attack to Seadra means that it's not technically outclassed, but its niche is such a tiny sliver that it's absurd to consider picking it.
Of course, being woefully outclassed isn't enough to lump you in with the dregs of RBY- Seaking is also terrible at everything it sets out to do. Thanks to its barren movepool, basically the only utility it's capable of providing a team is predicated on outputting damage, except it's a piss-weak attacker that doesn't really threaten anything. Its best attack is STAB Surf from a poor base 80 Special, to go along with base 92 Attack with no physical STAB (worse than Exeggutor fyi). The rest of its stats obviously don't do it any other favours either. Unlike Golbat and Butterfree it can reliably attack, which means it's generally capable of something, but it's so consistently losing when it tries to attack that it's just pathetic and it's more likely to die in exchange for minor chip damage. I personally rank it below Golbat and Butterfree, but they're all interchangeable within that tier imo. Useless trash
https://pokepast.es/434677d86a12fdd6 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1739067783-x35od8yb0h1i2x9k36ls52e1ua13ei4pw
Not a great replay as neither player did their best, but I think this is a great showcase of how shit Seaking is- coming in against a paralysed Lax at 54%, you'd think that's the kind of situation for it to achieve... something. That's not what happened though, it died having achieved practically nothing. At least my Tauros didn't have to eat an attack before forcing a Rest? https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1744951546-qzc05zswqpgvbwasm9h3gkmilp7fk7qpw
Finally played someone decently high on ladder with Seaking, unfortunately I was woefully tilted and consequently got demolished. Still saved this replay because I actually used Seaking a fair bit to sponge Cloyster's attacks. Sadly, it's fucking awful at that role as it not only fails to meaningfully threaten Cloyster, but it's also slower than it and therefore can just be Clamped anyway. This meant that it died without achieving anything more than being a punching bag https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1744977991-zmbfidaxsw0fea03rucc1nqoef5lubgpw
I MANAGED TO SWEEP WITH SEAKING. I got incredibly hyped over this, even though I should've lost due to how poorly I was playing. Unfortunately, this is a case of the exception proving the rule- this was imo an ideal situation and it still needed luck. Even after breaking through his Chansey, I needed Surf to crit their Tauros otherwise I was still losing, with Seaking's crit rate being very average
Also shoutout to my opponent for running a super cool Chansey set. Sub/Sing/IB is incredibly awkward to deal with as long as sleep is available, and it helped them build a lead early on, though it did backfire in the end by allowing my Seaking to set up lol https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1750350211-hljz0krvsn0xzrgaqfqhztwv9lj5ibcpw
Win against someone reasonably high on ladder. Seaking contributed, but it didn't do anything special- sponged a Hyper Beam from Tauros, then got lucky and crit it to death, something any pokemon capable of attacking could've done https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1756009873-w3ti4kp5rxvfrsssrzsk3p5hsjiqzx2pw
Win vs a player with a respectable elo, a few odd plays were made by both sides though. Seaking actually closed out the game, but not on its own merits since their Tauros missed 2 HBs. All I really expected from it in that scenario was for it to Surf and give my Tauros an edge in the ditto, which literally any pokemon capable of attacking could've done
I decided to use Venomoth next as I suspected that all of Butterfree's flaws would apply to it as well, and that this might cause it to struggle just as much. It turns out that although it does suffer from the same flaws as Butterfree, it's enough of an upgrade that it's really not on the same level. The key point of difference is having the bulk to be able to withstand neutral hits better, as well as make effective use of Double-Edge.
Double Edge can be situationally useful against Jynx and Zam due to their poor defenses, but Moth's Poison typing and the fact that its DE is still weak mean that it's only sometimes able to bother them. Where Moth really "shines" is against Chansey. Double Edge is enough to deal reasonable chip damage to Chansey (21.6-25.4%), and Moth can also leverage its BoltBeam neutrality to trade blows and force it to heal or something. Another situational play is to suicide with DE, which deals chip and denies Chansey the chance to heal.
Of course, Venomoth is still really bad and struggles to provide utility outside of Sleep Powder, it's just significantly less unlikely to do so than Butterfree. It struggles mightily with sleepblockers, meaning the game plan is still to bring it in asap to land sleep... which its Psychic weakness is not conducive to. It struggles to deal damage unless the target is weak to one of its attacks. Overall, Venomoth is not useless, but still far from being a serious pick
Ladder https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1796764738-h2o68lsamc9mddk4r4s5a4qq196j6fmpw
Win vs a player with a decent elo, despite the worst possible start to the match . Moth contributed very little this game- landed sleep and achieved nothing before being haxed to death. I could've tried to preserve it rather than leaving it in on what was overtly a Psychic Starmie, but I decided Moth was less valuable than paralysing Starmie, especially when I would've exposed my team to status and struggled to gain momentum if I tried to preserve it. Too bad it died without paralysing lol https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1799873990-qp1pdu6hyjsjp6om958ya2ksaedd4udpw
Opponent had a rating that's not terrible, hence the inclusion of this replay, but that team is not great. Anyway, Moth kinda helped. Its good speed tier made it a great option to send in after the Egg trade. DE vs Chansey would've helped create an opening if my opp had stayed in with Chansey, since it could force Softboiled without much concern. Then add in a lategame cameo with a suicide DE setting up a Tauros sweep https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1809194362-3b7zrg9z5px6s4qoy7qtmeftb1f974hpw
Fairly run of the mill match for Moth. Landed early sleep (despite my shitty reads), paralysed Chansey, accomplished nothing else
Tournament https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-669995
Match with my initial version of the team with lead Chansey. Not a great battle tbh, had some crucial luck, which hastened the arrival of the endgame, where I decided that Moth couldn't really accomplish anything aside from being cannon fodder https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1790605718-63lluwhr2lgsbf06xcq6uuppbjwpea3pw
Match with my more balanced version of the team. Failing to predict key Explosions meant that my opponent managed to just trade down pokemon. This dynamic heavily favoured my opponent, since running Moth meant that the remnants of my team were simply worse than my opponent. The ensuing endgame saw me in an unfavourable position, though far from unwinnable, until hax saw my Lax crumble https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-673021
Replay from a Discord tournament. Moth didn't really achieve too much beyond landing sleep
Farfetch'd is a bit of a weird Pokemon, having some amazing tools that don't synergise at all, and missing out on other key components, bundled up with some of the worst stats in the game. Swords Dance enables it to be a relevant threat, but for some reason it doesn't learn Hyper Beam, which an SD Normal really needs. It has STAB Slash, which doesn't fit at all with SD, and also it doesn't even max out Slash's crit rate. Couple that with no coverage as well as a lack of bulk and a BoltBeam weakness, and it's just not good.
I've been finding the most success with Farfetch'd treating it as kind of a versatile attacker- sometimes I'll just spam Slash to threaten walls, or maybe my opponent gives me an opening to set up and go on a rampage (people do sometimes get complacent around Farfetch'd. Smh, can't believe ppl haven't optimised their strategies for Farfetch'd). Farfetch'd is capable of being a legitimate offensive threat, if its gaping flaws can be overcome. There's also a neat tech where Farfetch'd can situationally set up on RefLax- Slash forces a Restloop, which means a predictable opening to set up SD- once you get to +6 Body Slam can break RefLax. That is more of a theoretical thing that you can leverage to force Lax out, but in saying that I've pulled it off in tournament
The trouble is, even if you manage to make Farfetch'd work, you have to ask yourself: could something else be doing this role better? As a SD (and/or Agi) user, Scyther offers similar power AND access to Hyper Beam, while spamming Slash is done better by Persian and uh, arguably Scyther again. Hell, I even considered running Sand Attack to separate Fetch from Scyther, even though Sand Attack doesn't really serve any clear purpose, it's just something unique that might end up being useful. Overall, it's not useless, but should not be taken seriously
Tournament https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-673023
Only saved this one because it's a tournament replay- I literally used Fetch as death fodder here https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1834503992-0pepvtw4ka9jylez3vfyvu9lb2cydl2pw
Fetch played a small but significant role in this match, setting up on Starmie and taking it down before weakening the opposing Tauros. Still required a lot of luck to get as far as it did https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1840405392-jnukzzi2uyj512ada9zegwzxrqy29topw
Fetch played a significant role in this match, but it's clear this was because Laurel wasn't sure how to respond to Farfetch'd, as I was able to exploit his attempts to fodder a frozen Egg by setting up repeatedly. Against someone more familiar with Fetch this wouldn't have worked, also you can't count on having a frozen pokemon to exploit all the time. Also I totally fucked this game up by clicking the wrong move with Tauros, I'm bloody spewing https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1849597691-xck197aohr98f71c8e1kxiwrbt5wglgpw
Brought Fetch again vs Laurel and this time it paid off. Fetch was able to set up on ReflectLax and would've swept were it not for some unfortunate luck. This is probably a peak performance from Farfetch'd
Ladder https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1813634603-grzcsyqsp7uuoutzc376fmjb8m6z489pw
Interesting match vs an interesting team- I don't think their team is good overall, but there are some neat ideas. I don't think I played all that well, but I do think it somewhat showcases Fetch and how it can shit the bed. I mostly used it to spam Slash and its damage output in this match was slightly lacking, while Slash failed to crit multiple times. Possibly could've got more out of it by using SD instead of https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1826340137-o24rxjv3vqwesmzmvb1mab243ddf66tpw
Well, this was a match. I had a fair amount of luck go my way tbh, while Fetch was kinda useless. I played it aggressively early game which was a bit risky, ended up getting some damage on Zam which proved valuable but could've just as easily been unimportant. It then showcased its peerless bulk, being 2HKO'd by fucking Porygon while a FP meant it didn't even scratch it
Also fyi I have a little blog. I intend on making it about general competitive game design (focusing on pokemon ofc), but so far all I've done is post about my trashmon escapades. I also don't take it too seriously, and haven't been active lately because I'm busy looking for a job. Here's the link if you're curious: https://ortheore.com/
Here's my WIP VR for the trashmons I've used:
Bad but still usable: Magneton*
Joke pick: Hitmonchan>Venomoth>Farfetch'd
Useless, not even a joke: Golbat>Butterfree>Seaking
Ditto: Ditto
*I stand by Magneton being good enough for me to bring to a tour, but in the current meta it's tough. This isn't a Magneton thing as much as it is an Electric thing, with Zap struggling, Jolteon's usage drying up and Rhydon running rampant. It's just it's much easier to be critical of Magneton because it's already borderline unviable.
maybe give tox mag a shot Orth', movepool suck already and while tox on rhydon shouldnt be a main strategy, its deff put a bit of pressure on it, most notably discouraging sub and forcing it out very quicky the first time
That's a reasonable idea, but I'm still skeptical. I've tried Toxic in the past on other Electric types and generally haven't been impressed, however it's possible I over-emphasised it strategically and made it a point of emphasis to wear down GolDon which just isn't a winning strategy. What you're describing sounds more like a minor piece to somewhat hamper Don, which is more sensible.
Running Toxic imo also diminishes Mag's tiny niche, since realistically you'd drop Reflect in order to run it, since it's the least useful move on its set but being able to use Reflect to tank non-STAB EQs is Mag's biggest selling point relative to other electrics.
Running Toxic imo also diminishes Mag's tiny niche, since realistically you'd drop Reflect in order to run it, since it's the least useful move on its set but being able to use Reflect to tank non-STAB EQs is Mag's biggest selling point relative to other electrics.
Keep in mind that i havent much mag experience: everything or so is pure theory, i just like the idea of a "bulkier" (not much else to do really...) electric type with strong SpA and ice neutrality when the meta revolves a lot around RestLax+Mono Ice Chansey and a water (starmie) type yes, so i think you really consider rest reflect here indeed.
In order to make room for toxic, you probably drop twave. Sounds silly but i like the idea. Zam might be tough for the team but other than that, teammates should be able to get the paralysis going. In the end mag dosent need that much paralysis support, its about getting in the right situation (good luck) not losing and eventually beating lax chansey and friends (shoud the match up be alright in the first place).
Twave is still like the best set in theory, but as you said Rhydon is really problematic, its just a poor attempt trying to achieve more in that match up while still not compromising the whole "concept" of mag. Maybe you can also build around the toxic idea and make a team that befenit from toxic on said chansey or exeggutor.
Twave + Tox is also doable, but i think you drop the whole rest postionning stuff for a much much more offensive approach with subsitute tox mag (sub helps when opponent hasent swtiched out yet to reduce toxic damages) Rest alone cannot work unless very niche scenarios while reflect alone... yea, specific to say the least. Maybe tox flash while we're at the fun stuff
The main problem of Mag, competitively speaking, is that you could run the exact same moveset on jolt/zap and still have a better pokémon, despite every theorical niche mag stats offers. Main moveset on electrics struggles a lot already, forget about stupid stuff. That says a lot about mag viability
Omastar seems to cover Normal Lax, Normal Ice + Reflect Lax pretty well. Amnesia + Reflect + Ice Beam doesn't deal enough damage to remove it, though there is the risk of losing a Freeze War. Omastar is also set up fodder for amnesia sets. Toxic + Leech Seed can help scare these mons out.
Unfortunately, you still have to make sure that you don't toxic the wrong mon. Also, Omastar's inability to deal with Chansey and Starmie hurts it. Omastar does not really like dealing with EQ Lax from what I've experienced.
Here are variants of what I've used: Sing Chansey Sleep Powder Egg
I don't think this team is particularly amazing, but at least it's a way to use Toxic + Leech Seed. Snorlax Walls have a lot of flaws. Snorlax Walls seem to have a thing where they wall lax, then come in on Tauros to weaken it for your Tauros. They all don't cover every single set, and can feel dead when Snorlax isn't switching in. Porygon uses up a lot of turns setting up recover, doesn't deal much damage, loses to Amnesia sets, and can lose freeze wars. Aero gets hit too hard from special attacks, lets certain mons like Rhydon in too easily, and is vulnerable to paralysis. Kabutops and Omastar don't cover Ground Lax very well.
I should probably try to experiment with Cloyster a bit more.
Biggest issue with toxic + leech seed is that toxic reverts to regular poison upon switching, rendering the combo useless. It's good at forcing lax to switch i guess since the toxic, and therefore leech seed, counter doesn't reset when lax uses rest, but if you toxic an oppozing zam/starmie you might as well forfeit. Also that oma set not using body slam is pretty sketchy ngl, since it has no way to threaten the psychics. It's a cool concept on paper but I think you're better off with bslam on oma over toxic.
I guess something cool is that before toxic is revealed, your opponent will probably assume it's using body slam and not want to switch in zam/mie, but once toxic over bslam is revealed zam/mie switch in forever.
After playing some more I've updated my opinion on what's viable. In the lower rankings there are some mons I am not entirely sure of. Here are my notes of anything that probably stand out.
I don't have Lax as #2 b/c it feels easier to replace than Chansey, and because Chansey has just felt better.
Not Really sure if Starmie is better than Exeggutor, Starmie is the best lead, it's splashable, and it can be hard to take down, but Exeggutor has a very useful resistances to Ground and Psychic, it can take down two mons, as well as paralyze one or more, and it can help free up Chansey's moveset with Sleep Powder. It's scary b/c you don't always know when it wants to explode. Starmie is definitely better then Alakazam. I don't see why some people think Starmie is better than Chansey.
After playing more, despite being frail, with an innacurate sleeping move, Gengar has proven to be a very scary mon to me. I personally don't think I am a fan of using it, however.
Not sure If I should have put Persian so high, but there is a player with a scary Persian team that beats me a lot. It doesn't have defensive typing and access to Swords Dance like Kabutops, but it does have its speed.
Kabutops and Omastar are Snorlax walls, Kabutops can remove Chansey while Omastar cannot. Kabutop's Slash can force Starmie to recover, while Omastar doesn't really do much damage to Starmie. Omastar hits Snorlax and Tauros (unboosted) much harder than Kabutops and takes hits better from lax. Omastar seems to be an easy mon to set up Amnesia boosts on. It can run Seismic Toss, but my guess is that that does not help it much. I personally like Toxic + Leech Seed, though it does hurt the match up against Starmie as you using two slots that could be paralysis moves.
I'm not a fan of Jolteon, it doesn't have the same psychic resistance as other special attackers, it gets walled by Rhydon, Golem, and Onix, and its coverage moves are not very good. But it can still paralyze stuff, crit through Amnesia, and wall Zapdos.
Moltres seems to handle some important mons better than Articuno, Fire Spin can turn 3 hit KO's into 2 hit KOs, but it's also has worse defensive typing, and it's inaccurate.
I think it makes sense that Porygon dropped from C Tier in the rankings. I still don't see Aerodactyl as that much worse than Porygon if it is. I've seen a higher ladder player use Sharpen + Agility which was neat, not sure if it really works though.
Gyrados is hard to predict, though I wish it had better typing or maybe more power. It has to rely on an inaccurate Hydro Pump to 3 hit KO Snorlax.
Sandslash has defensive use while Kingler just kind of dies. Perhaps I am not giving Kingler enough credit... not really sure.
I think Onix can fit in E tier, it beats the main 2 Electric types and can act against Exeggutor (with Bind or Explosion), while Rhydon usually has to switch. It can also pivot around Snorlax though it has a 30% risk of getting paralyzed. It basically gets in your offensive mons safely as much as it can, beats the electric type if it's Onix is still alive, then it blows up. It's still not a particularly amazing mon.
Dragonair and Arbok are in E tier b/c Wrap teams are scary and painful.
How do people feel about a hax free mod of RBY OU?
It's been suggested before for XY. I think it would work in RBY because hax is so prevalent in the game. A few key points:
1. All moves would be 100% accurate - including sleep moves.
2. Moves would always do the same damage, worked out by average.
3. Sleep would always last the same no. of turns.
4. Crits would never happen (unless it's supposed to like with slash, then it would always happen)
5. Freeze, flinch, special drops and any affect less than 50% (such as secondary effects) wouldn't happen.
6. Full para would never happen.
7. Confusion would be banned, or changed so that the pokemon simultaneously carries out the move and receives damage.
8. Speed ties would be resolved by whoever clicked a move first.
Reflect might have to be banned if there's no way to break it with the new mechanics.
If anyone can recall playing the old PS/PO versions of this mod, what was it like? Why wasn't it popular?
How do people feel about a hax free mod of RBY OU?
It's been suggested before for XY. I think it would work in RBY because hax is so prevalent in the game. A few key points:
1. All moves would be 100% accurate - including sleep moves.
2. Moves would always do the same damage, worked out by average.
3. Sleep would always last the same no. of turns.
4. Crits would never happen (unless it's supposed to like with slash, then it would always happen)
5. Freeze, flinch, special drops and any affect less than 50% (such as secondary effects) wouldn't happen.
6. Full para would never happen.
7. Confusion would be banned, or changed so that the pokemon simultaneously carries out the move and receives damage.
8. Speed ties would be resolved by whoever clicked a move first.
Reflect might have to be banned if there's no way to break it with the new mechanics.
If anyone can recall playing the old PS/PO versions of this mod, what was it like? Why wasn't it popular?
this just feels like it breaks so much stuff, like apart from the partial trapping bs, there's also the fact that stuff like amnesia slowbro/snorlax can't get crit anymore, and with no fp this means slowbro can beat stuff like zapdos basically automaticaly once it sets up, also gengar is guaranteed to get sleep turn 1 now since it can't fped or crit by psychic, meaning it'll just end up becoming gengar mirrors with the faster clicker landing sleep, so the person with better internet has an advantage lmao, also no secondary effects means stuff like alakazam/starmie can switch into tauros basically risk-free lol, and good luck killing chansey without full para or freeze
this just feels like it breaks so much stuff, like apart from the partial trapping bs, there's also the fact that stuff like amnesia slowbro/snorlax can't get crit anymore, and with no fp this means slowbro can beat stuff like zapdos basically automaticaly once it sets up, also gengar is guaranteed to get sleep turn 1 now since it can't fped or crit by psychic, meaning it'll just end up becoming gengar mirrors with the faster clicker landing sleep, so the person with better internet has an advantage lmao, also no secondary effects means stuff like alakazam/starmie can switch into tauros basically risk-free lol, and good luck killing chansey without full para or freeze
Good points. Yeah wrap would probably have to be banned, unless you can think of another solution?
Amnesia could also be banned, although I don't think it's as problematic as reflect - you've got razor leaf (which would always crit) for bro, and if reflect is banned things can boom on lax.
Gengar might get sleep, but remember sleep is nerfed - it would only last exactly 2 or 3 turns. I think Gengar can be badly hurt first turn (zam psychic, dugtrio EQ) in exchange for sleep as well.
Tauros would be nerfed, as you say he can't para with b slam anymore and won't get crits. But I don't think that's a bad thing, just opening up opportunities for other sweepers.
Without reflect I don't think Chansey will be too difficult to kill. Plenty of pokemon kill it 1v1 i.e. Tauros. Maybe toxic would become more viable.
Fire spin too, not just wrap, since Moltres can risk-free agilispin (especially with no full para). Bind is exclusive to slow shitmons and clamp is exclusive to cloyster who has mediocre speed so those two could stay. Clamp also has less pp
Amnesia could also be banned, although I don't think it's as problematic as reflect - you've got razor leaf (which would always crit) for bro, and if reflect is banned things can boom on lax.
Gengar might get sleep, but remember sleep is nerfed - it would only last exactly 2 or 3 turns. I think Gengar can be badly hurt first turn (zam psychic, dugtrio EQ) in exchange for sleep as well.
Sleep being a fixed amount is kinda a buff tbh, since you know the exact turn they'll wake up, if your sleeper is slower you can just land hypnosis on the turn you know they'll wake up, and a sleeper being faster is essentually a permament sleep.
Tauros would be nerfed, as you say he can't para with b slam anymore and won't get crits. But I don't think that's a bad thing, just opening up opportunities for other sweepers.
What "other sweepers?" in rby crits are a big part of offense, without crits it'll be really hard to break through stuff. Even stuff like zapdos are walled by chansey. If you're suggesting SD users there's a reason they're all D-rank. Maybe pinsir if bind is legal could do something vs a paralyzed team? But gengar is op here so i doubt it.
Tauros cannot 1v1 chansey. Chansey twaves it then can spam softboiled, since tauros can't crit through chansey it won't be able to kill it. It has to land hyper beam on a turn it predicts chansey doesn't softboiled, and if it predicts wrong chansey gets a free attack.
I think instant recovery would have to be banned to make this any resemblance of a playable metagame, or else you'll have chansey zam and starmie spamming recovery moves forever.
“This thread is for discussing more casual or fun strategies in RBY OU that you are likely to find or play with on the PS! ladder rather that high-level tournament play.”
Hypothetical pet mods would fit better on the Discord than this thread, please keep this thread to actual RBY.
“This thread is for discussing more casual or fun strategies in RBY OU that you are likely to find or play with on the PS! ladder rather that high-level tournament play.”
Hypothetical pet mods would fit better on the Discord than this thread, please keep this thread to actual RBY.
Teams I'll probably be running around with... The easiest team for me to run is the Double bird with Tauros as a lead. I generally prefer all out attacking Lax. I like using triple bird/double bird with Gyarados the most.
I'm starting to take more of a liking to Gengar, mostly b/c I think it works well with Exeggutor and the birds. Two sleepers helps prevent players from using Sleeping mons as fodder. I also like having Thunderbolt for Cloyster.
I'm pretty confused at what is actually good. When I use the triple psychic team I just straight up lose...
I've run into Persian a lot on the ladder. It seems like a pretty good mon, not getting stopped by Cloyster + Rhydon seems great. I'm not sure how Kabutops compares to Persian. Kabutops has its Ice/Normal resistance, Rest loops Lax and can set up on it. But Persian has Tbolt and is fast. Idk.
I've also run into a bunch of teams with multiple Sleepers.
Anyways, I think Aero's main weakness is Rhydon, not as much its reliance on crits, unless around 70% chance to crit Sky Attack in around 6 tries unparalyzed is bad. Aero wants something to cover the Ice/Normal weakness, so you can really run it with Exeggutor imo, as far as I know. I get that Sky Attack is memey, but I'm pretty sure it's better than Hyper Beam. Snorlax won't want to switch out if it's weakened enough, and Sky Attack hits very hard and can nab KOs if it crits. The fossils' ability to do stuff outside of status something, maybe, and dying. But I think they all have weaknesses.
Jynx in the back is stronger than I thought it would be.
I don't know how some of these players get so high on the ladder, they seem to be able to read minds.
