Announcement 2023 RBY Circuit Feedback & Discussion Thread

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Amaranth

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A survey was sent out through the Smogon RBY Discord which polled opinions on the current state of the circuit. It asked numerous questions about the state of the circuit and potential improvements to be made to it in 2023. We received 20 votes.

The survey also differentiated between players who have made circuit top 16 and those who haven't, as a simple way to filter more qualified votes from others.

Survey Results

Rate your level of satisfaction with the current structure of the circuit.
Average: 6.4 / 10
Average (qualified voters only): 6.86 / 10

This rating is not great, which confirms that our intentions to shake things up a little were well placed and representative of an overall discontentment within the community - though it's obviously not terrible in its current state.

For all subsequent questions, a low average means people disagreed with the statement, and a high number means people agreed. Keep in mind that with a 1-5 scale, the average is 3 (not 2.5).

The current circuit has too many long tournaments.
Average: 2.7 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 2.5 / 5

People overall don't seem to mind the current double Seasonal + one Global Championship format overall, despite them being fairly lengthy, and expressed a reasonably clear opinion in favor of keeping all three (plus RBY Cup).

The current circuit doesn't have enough short tournaments.
Average: 2.95 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 2.86 / 5

This one is about as close to average as you're going to get; people are overall indifferent with the current amount of shorter tournaments in the circuit.

Live Tournaments give too many points in the current circuit.
Average: 3.65 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 3.64 / 5

Live Tournaments should not contribute any points to the circuit, ideally.
Average: 2.8 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 2.21 / 5

These two questions were asked before I received information that RoA Tour is simply not going to exist in 2023 due to decisions taken by RoA leadership. Though it seems that people mostly liked having the livetours contribute a little, there was still a firm desire to reduce their impact on the overall circuit.

If a long tournament is removed from the schedule, I'd prefer to remove a Seasonal rather than the Global Championship.
Average: 3.5 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 3.86 / 5

If we do decide that a long tournament needs to go for timing reasons, then the majority opinion is to keep the Global Championship and axe one of the Seasonals.

An RBY Ladder Tournament should be created and added to the circuit.
Average: 2.75 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 2.57 / 5

The idea of a ladder tournament seems to be overall unpopular and especially so amongst qualified voters.

A Swiss Tournament should be created and added to the circuit.
Average: 3.35 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 2.93 / 5

Opinions are pretty much indifferent on a Swiss tournament; it could be introduced to the circuit but doesn't seem to be a necessity.

A 'Majors' Tournament, with a pools stage followed by a playoff, should be created and added to the circuit.
Average: 3.65 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 3.5 / 5

RBY Majors however will almost certainly happen as it received consistent approval in this survey.

A Last Chance Qualifier, with single elimination and short (3-4 day) deadlines, before the Circuit playoffs, should be created and added to the circuit.
Average: 2.75 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 2.5 / 5

The LCQ on the other hand doesn't seem to be very popular at all, even slightly worse than the Ladder Tournament.

Short tournaments with even more creative / gimmicky formats than the ones in the above four questions should be introduced to the circuit.
Average: 2.3 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 1.79 / 5

Short, gimmicked tournaments are extremely unpopular and won't make an appearance in the circuit as of now.

RBY Lowtier Tournaments (Grand Slam, or other potential formats that include them) should give points towards the 2023 RBY Circuit.
Average: 2.05 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 1.5 / 5

Though this practice is extremely standard in lowtier circuits, it seems like including other RBY formats in the RBY OU circuit is very unpopular with the community.

Efforts should be made to host an RBY World Cup in 2023 (not related to the individual Circuit.)
Average: 3.7 / 5
Average (qualified voters only): 3.71 / 5

With a crushing majority, RBYWC will almost certainly happen in 2023.

-----


Discussion Points

Here's a tentative schedule that I drew out to give people an idea of the time windows here. Individuals are split loosely into "Type A" for bigger ones, and "Type B" for smaller ones, but the exact amounts of circuit points are TBD. (Cutting a Seasonal and the introduction of Swiss also aren't a given - more discussion will hopefully help us figure out where to go exactly)
rby 2023.png


Here are some discussion points I care about in particular:

- Are we okay with running a Type B alongside a Type A to cram more individual tournaments into the circuit? Would it be too much? Usually the last month or so of the long tournaments only involve a few players (the top 8 or so), so it's not too bad to start another tournament while the earlier one is ending, especially if it's a less important one. This would allow us to experiment with both Swiss and Majors without cutting any of Seasonal/Cup/Global, pretty much running a type A constantly throughout the whole year, and sprinkling in Swiss and Majors on top. Is this too much?

- With RoA Tour gone, is there interest in a set of RBY live tours standalone? Given that RoA Tours often struggled to even reach 32 I'd lean no, but I'm interested in hearing opinions on this purely because the survey didn't cover it.

- Incorporating lowtiers into the OU circuit is vastly unpopular, but should they have their own circuit? Or is Grand Slam and sporadic solo tours enough for the size of that subcommunity?

Feel free to share anything that you feel hasn't been covered by the survey as well, or your thoughts on everything in case you didn't fill in the survey in time. Your feedback is highly appreciated!
 
The survey asks: "If a long tournament is removed from the schedule, I'd prefer to remove a Seasonal rather than the Global Championship."
3.86/5 of the voters agree with this statement.

However, the survey also asks if "The current circuit has too many long tournaments."
2.5/5 of the voters agree with this statement.

Reading the data suggests that most players prefer to keep the Type A tournaments structure as it is. What is the need to remove one of the seasonal tournaments?

My proposal is to maintain the type A tournament structure, with 2 seasonal tournaments plus the RBY CUP and RBY GC. Where only type A tournaments will generate points for the RBY Circuit Championship.
 

Amaranth

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The survey asks: "If a long tournament is removed from the schedule, I'd prefer to remove a Seasonal rather than the Global Championship."
3.86/5 of the voters agree with this statement.

However, the survey also asks if "The current circuit has too many long tournaments."
2.5/5 of the voters agree with this statement.

Reading the data suggests that most players prefer to keep the Type A tournaments structure as it is. What is the need to remove one of the seasonal tournaments?

My proposal is to maintain the type A tournament structure, with 2 seasonal tournaments plus the RBY CUP and RBY GC. Where only type A tournaments will generate points for the RBY Circuit Championship.
Removing a ssnl is an L imo. Only true double elim rby tour and cutting one would mean there’s only one honest format solo rby ou tour all year
As explained, the image is just to give an idea of the time windows required for the tournaments to run. It's likely after the survey that we will keep 2 seasonals + GC and just cram the calendar to make it work lol
 

Sabelette

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- Are we okay with running a Type B alongside a Type A to cram more individual tournaments into the circuit? Would it be too much? Usually the last month or so of the long tournaments only involve a few players (the top 8 or so), so it's not too bad to start another tournament while the earlier one is ending, especially if it's a less important one. This would allow us to experiment with both Swiss and Majors without cutting any of Seasonal/Cup/Global, pretty much running a type A constantly throughout the whole year, and sprinkling in Swiss and Majors on top. Is this too much?
Seems doable! I haven’t played a full circuit year so obviously I only have the partial experience but I didn’t feel bombarded while trying to join everything from like June onward. There were some big droughts for people who didn’t make it late into tournaments and I think starting a new tournament when top 16 or 8 or so of a prior one is going isn’t too much pressure.

- With RoA Tour gone, is there interest in a set of RBY live tours standalone? Given that RoA Tours often struggled to even reach 32 I'd lean no, but I'm interested in hearing opinions on this purely because the survey didn't cover it.
Personally I would play more live tours if I knew when they were happening instead of “hey live tour starting now” and having to drop what I’m doing. I know the ROA live tours had advance warning but I feel like not enough people knew about those, so I’m interested to play live tours if they get advertised.

- Incorporating lowtiers into the OU circuit is vastly unpopular, but should they have their own circuit? Or is Grand Slam and sporadic solo tours enough for the size of that subcommunity?
A low tier circuit would grow the community and I’ll happily volunteer to run things and help plan a schedule. I think it would be great.

Thanks for doing a survey!
 

Amaranth

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I only wanted them to not give points, I believe lowtier tournaments should exist. I did not mind what was done last time aside from them giving points. A lowtier circuit itself seems a little hard to pull off assuming the point is to have a circuit championship given well, what format is it? Maybe I'm misunderstanding though and all circuit means is "we run tournaments". Overall though I don't really care what the technical term is whether it's a "circuit" or just "more tournaments", I think lowtiers should have more tournaments but not give points towards qualifying for a tournament under an unrelated format.
"Circuit" means "organized and pre-planned set of tournaments for the whole year where each tournament rewards you with points for finishing well and at the end the top X players plays for winning the entire circuit"

Should lowtiers get their own, or should they continue with the sporadic tournaments, not unified under any circuit, as has been happening until now? That's the question the OP is asking
 
The survey did not explore whether there is interest in a slightly longer circuit, with 1 additional type A tournament, for example. On the other hand, what do we gain by having 2 type B tournaments that do not award points to the circuit? Wouldn't it be a better idea to eliminate type B tournaments in exchange for having 1 additional type A tournament that guarantees a circuit that lasts the whole year? They could explore the opinion of the players a little more, it may be a good idea.
 

Amaranth

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
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The survey did not explore whether there is interest in a slightly longer circuit, with 1 additional type A tournament, for example. On the other hand, what do we gain by having 2 type B tournaments that do not award points to the circuit? Wouldn't it be a better idea to eliminate type B tournaments in exchange for having 1 additional type A tournament that guarantees a circuit that lasts the whole year? They could explore the opinion of the players a little more, it may be a good idea.
Please read the post again. Type B tournaments would still award points towards the circuit, just a bit less because they are smaller / faster tournaments.

An additional Type A tournament is not in question because 2 Seasonals + 1 Global Championship + 1 RBY Cup + 1 RBY Invitational already covers the full year. There's literally no time in the year to host more Type A tournaments.
 
Please read the post again. Type B tournaments would still award points towards the circuit, just a bit less because they are smaller / faster tournaments.

An additional Type A tournament is not in question because 2 Seasonals + 1 Global Championship + 1 RBY Cup + 1 RBY Invitational already covers the full year. There's literally no time in the year to host more Type A tournaments.
If so, I think that then the circuit would have a satisfactory extension. But the Majors format catches my attention. Is it an open tournament or by invitation? I would like to know how it works.
 
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