Other Tiers RBY Anything Goes Hub

[Plague von Karma]

Approved by phoopes I think
So this is a tier that's been theorised about among newer players. However, it has remained mostly dormant for many years due to modern simulators' inabilities to simulate many aspects that would define the metagame, most notably pre-status. Thus, this thread would essentially be for people to talk out of their asses about playing this tier.

There are two ways to play this tier:

• rby.psim.us works on mobile according to pac, which I've confirmed. I put a mod on there a long time ago that adds items which induce pre-status. For example, Mewtwo @ psn would have it spawn poisoned instantly. Pre-damage is not possible, though, so you can't, like, add -1 HP to avoid jank L85 Seismic Toss users. If you want to try stuff out, that's a place to start.
• If you're an ascended Pikasav-using TGBDualer (or BGB, that works too) like me, you can also play netplay. In which case, DM me on Discord or something and we can play that way! Used to play this back in my Skype days.

So RBY AG would end up allowing pre-status, Dig/Fly, OHKO moves, Evasion, multiple Pokemon, multiple sleep/frz, and Tradebacks, if we're being consistent. This is pretty insane. I know some people like to say Tradebacks is something separate but I think they're kidding themselves. Plus, trust me, with pre-status around, you'd want Tradebacks. Badly. Anything but Tradebacks sounds cringe anyway.

So lemme get some cool theorymonning in.

Big Mewtwo!

Obviously, you'd want a Mewtwo or three on your team. I like the idea of having one standard BoltBeam, one Barrier + Amnesia, I don't know why. You could use a pre-paralysed Barrier + Amnesia Mewtwo to PP stall really hard, yeah? But maybe a Double Team set would be better. I doubt you'd want all Mewtwos for some reason, I think an Explosion user and a few other Pokemon may end up being more important.

Lapras :3

A pre-burned Lapras with Double Team + Rest is insane. I saw this set quite a few times and it would tear my ass a new one. Main issue is it's quite passive, but it can afford to stick around anyway. If you're feeling particularly hateful of humanity, you can use Horn Drill, but you're quite slow and pre-status makes spreading paralysis almost impossible. That brings me to my next batch...

Haze?!

So getting sleep and paralysis off gets quite difficult when you have Pokemon with pre-burn and pre-poison coming in initially. One thing a friend of mine did against me way back in the day was bring Haze Dragonite, which would do a number on me as I sucked against it. Note that Haze will not remove your own pre-status. Haze / Wrap / Thunder Wave / Blizzard, I think the set was, but I think you could use Horn Drill without getting laughed at. Wrap is insane for all the pre-status going around, you could even bring AgiliWrap to abuse that trend honestly. Gengar gets Hypnosis so it's probably one of the best sleepers on this basis. At the same time, once you've Hazed one Pokemon, your opponent is in a 50/50 where they can switch into the Gengar to block the sleep anyway. It's kind of weird. Tentacruel and Dodrio seem alright, especially the latter for OHKOing Jynx, but I think Jynx dies in a pre-status metagame.

Idk ToxSeed?

I've considered the ToxSeed combination as Evasion counterplay before; this happens in NC97, but it's 3v3 and not 6v6, so I don't think it would end up being particularly useful...and only Exeggutor would be good with it.

 

[The Faz]

Dragonite seems very interesting.

Haze / Wrap / Twave / Agility seems strong; having the enemy team basically half poisoned already sounds great + being able to deal with evasion hijinks seems very good.

Same with Gengar, being probably the only viable sleep user, in a tier with no Sleep Clause. Maybe running a team of a few Gengars could be viable? Probably not, considering the Mewtwo infestation, although it depends on what set it ends up at.



Actually wait we're just dumb you can just pre-para your Fly/Dig users and become immortal.

 

[Ctown6]

Haven’t played this meta much but I do remember watching a match with Mikon and earthworm, there were a few mew2s and then a few transform mews iirc, the meta seemed very stally and thus transform mew let you stick around and play some very loooooong games. Toxic was also used to force inevitable recovers. Not too sure on specific stuff but maybe Nessa can bless us with some infos

 

[Ctown6]

Toxic is pointless since AG would allow pre-status, and you'd probably want to be poisoned or parad coming in anyways.

Ahhh I see, maybe I was remembering incorrectly. But also I think at the time when this tournament was played it wasn’t true “AG” just ubers without bans and clauses

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

Mewtwo
Ability: No Ability
- Amnesia
- Barrier
- Double Team
- Recover/Rest

Ika's favourite Mewtwo set right here

 

[Limit Evolution]

Personally, I don’t like the idea of pre-status and tradebacks in Anything Goes. The reason is because Anything Goes allows for anything legal in the game, excluding glitches and I feel that pre-status and tradebacks could be classified as an exploit at the very least.
I believe that if you were to use pre-status Pokémon in an official tournament, you would get banned immediately, though there is no way of knowing for sure since tournaments back then were done using the Pokémon Stadium series of games AFAIK.
As for tradebacks, I think the game referees wouldn’t notice the illegal moves at first, but upon further inspection it would result in disqualification. The Generation 2 games literally tell you not to do tradebacks, this leading me to conclude that it was not meant to be legal in the RBY Anything Goes metagames.
Now the Generation 2 games still do allow for pre-status so you could argue it was deliberate, but the Stadium games do not so it could be argued the other way.
There is an official guide that says you could pre-poison your Chansey before battling in a link battle to avoid status. However, it was written by someone on Nugget Bridge, and is not an official tournament rulebook, so I feel the rules and strategies in that guide conformed to what that person believed should be allowed. In a similar way, some guides claim Rotom to be a legendary Pokémon. In fact the official Pokémon website, Zacian’s stat distribution is incorrect. This is why I feel only official tournament rules can decide this, but since official Gen 1 tournaments were conducted using Stadium mechanics, I don’t think we can get an official stance on this.
In fact, I believe that perhaps we were supposed to make our own rules considering Pokémon didn’t have a competitive scene back then, considering the Nintendo Cups were meant for only Japanese players who were not adults, and Mewtwo was most certainly not designed to be balanced with an effective BST of 744.
Now you could say my entire comment is pointless since if I wanted to challenge someone to a battle without pre-status and tradebacks, I could do just that. However, I just want to show that using pre-status and tradebacks isn’t the “correct” way to play RBY Anything Goes, just one way of doing it similar to how Gen 1 OU has Gen 1 OU (with tradebacks) and Gen 1 Stadium OU.
Also some things to keep in mind if you are playing with pre-status: The invulnerability glitch can be abused quite a lot considering you can pre-paralyze and then go to Dig/Fly. You might think well at least they can be hit with Bide/Swift, but those moves don’t do that much. Also you might think they have a PP limit even when invulnerable, but the moves Wrap/Fire Spin can loop back to 64 PP, due to a glitch making infinite PP in theory.
Melbelle mentions that you can switch between two Gengar to stall PP out. It sounds good in theory but if a Mew that is invulnerable uses Transform, you can’t touch it with Bide/Swift anymore. You have to wait until it runs out of PP. Then it switches out and repeats the cycle again.
Of course what I said is theorymon at best considering the metagame is unexplored.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Personally, I don’t like the idea of pre-status and tradebacks in Anything Goes. The reason is because Anything Goes allows for anything legal in the game, excluding glitches and I feel that pre-status and tradebacks could be classified as an exploit at the very least.
I believe that if you were to use pre-status Pokémon in an official tournament, you would get banned immediately, though there is no way of knowing for sure since tournaments back then were done using the Pokémon Stadium series of games AFAIK.
As for tradebacks, I think the game referees wouldn’t notice the illegal moves at first, but upon further inspection it would result in disqualification. The Generation 2 games literally tell you not to do tradebacks, this leading me to conclude that it was not meant to be legal in the RBY Anything Goes metagames.
Now the Generation 2 games still do allow for pre-status so you could argue it was deliberate, but the Stadium games do not so it could be argued the other way.
There is an official guide that says you could pre-poison your Chansey before battling in a link battle to avoid status. However, it was written by someone on Nugget Bridge, and is not an official tournament rulebook, so I feel the rules and strategies in that guide conformed to what that person believed should be allowed. In a similar way, some guides claim Rotom to be a legendary Pokémon. In fact the official Pokémon website, Zacian’s stat distribution is incorrect. This is why I feel only official tournament rules can decide this, but since official Gen 1 tournaments were conducted using Stadium mechanics, I don’t think we can get an official stance on this.
In fact, I believe that perhaps we were supposed to make our own rules considering Pokémon didn’t have a competitive scene back then, considering the Nintendo Cups were meant for only Japanese players who were not adults, and Mewtwo was most certainly not designed to be balanced with an effective BST of 744.
Now you could say my entire comment is pointless since if I wanted to challenge someone to a battle without pre-status and tradebacks, I could do just that. However, I just want to show that using pre-status and tradebacks isn’t the “correct” way to play RBY Anything Goes, just one way of doing it similar to how Gen 1 OU has Gen 1 OU (with tradebacks) and Gen 1 Stadium OU.
Also some things to keep in mind if you are playing with pre-status: The invulnerability glitch can be abused quite a lot considering you can pre-paralyze and then go to Dig/Fly. You might think well at least they can be hit with Bide/Swift, but those moves don’t do that much. Also you might think they have a PP limit even when invulnerable, but the moves Wrap/Fire Spin can loop back to 64 PP, due to a glitch making infinite PP in theory.
Melbelle mentions that you can switch between two Gengar to stall PP out. It sounds good in theory but if a Mew that is invulnerable uses Transform, you can’t touch it with Bide/Swift anymore. You have to wait until it runs out of PP. Then it switches out and repeats the cycle again.
Of course what I said is theorymon at best considering the metagame is unexplored.

What on earth...

The first iteration of Nintendo-sanctioned play in 1997 was done on Red and Green cartridge, where they enforced Cleric Clause. This is why Stadium has it. Pre-Status/Damage being deemed an exploit presumably because later gens do it is completely irrational. As you stated, it remained in GSC, and making Pokemon heal beforehand requires only a few lines of code. Like, it's really, really not hard, and even then, trying to speak for developers over presumed intentions is just kind of weird? They had many years to deal with it. This is RBY, if archaic game design irks you then you're frankly just in the wrong place.

Tradebacks are an intended feature given it trades with GSC at all, and thus, it should ideally be taken at face-value. Are Tradeback DVs unintentional given RBY cannot have perfect 15s while you can breed for them in GSC? Why draw a line at all? I can get out my copy of Silver and trade a Thunder Punch Magmar right now. Why do presumed developer intentions actually matter, especially given the added moves arguably benefit the metagame? Why is it so hard to take at face value other than personal discomfort, really?

What you are asking for not only violates the idea of Anything Goes but also demands a slippery slope on what can and cannot be considered "not exploits". Game Freak's developers, contrary to popular belief, are not incompetent and I feel like it is perfectly fine to respect their intelligence. Tradebacks are banned in standard play because of a decision from the early 2000s; thus, it makes sense to preserve the ancient metagame. AG, on the other hand, has never been taken seriously nor has it ever been successfully simulated. This feels like needless nitpicking for no reason, on a metagame that's obviously going to be warped and unnatural anyway.

 

[Limit Evolution]

What on earth...

The first iteration of Nintendo-sanctioned play in 1997 was done on Red and Green cartridge, where they enforced Cleric Clause. This is why Stadium has it. Pre-Status/Damage being deemed an exploit presumably because later gens do it is completely irrational. As you stated, it remained in GSC, and making Pokemon heal beforehand requires only a few lines of code. Like, it's really, really not hard, and even then, trying to speak for developers over presumed intentions is just kind of weird? They had many years to deal with it. This is RBY, if archaic game design irks you then you're frankly just in the wrong place.

Tradebacks are an intended feature given it trades with GSC at all, and thus, it should ideally be taken at face-value. Are Tradeback DVs unintentional given RBY cannot have perfect 15s while you can breed for them in GSC? Why draw a line at all? I can get out my copy of Silver and trade a Thunder Punch Magmar right now. Why do presumed developer intentions actually matter, especially given the added moves arguably benefit the metagame? Why is it so hard to take at face value other than personal discomfort, really?

What you are asking for not only violates the idea of Anything Goes but also demands a slippery slope on what can and cannot be considered "not exploits". Game Freak's developers, contrary to popular belief, are not incompetent and I feel like it is perfectly fine to respect their intelligence. Tradebacks are banned in standard play because of a decision from the early 2000s; thus, it makes sense to preserve the ancient metagame. AG, on the other hand, has never been taken seriously nor has it ever been successfully simulated. This feels like needless nitpicking for no reason, on a metagame that's obviously going to be warped and unnatural anyway.

So I checked Bulbapedia and Nintendo Cup happened in 1997 while Pokémon Stadium came out in 1998, though there is a Nintendo Cup game mode within Pokémon Stadium leading me to confuse the two. I didn’t know Nintendo Cup didn’t allow for pre-status/damage, but now I do and it strengthens my idea that if you were to participate in an official RBY Anything Goes tournament back then, you would be disqualified. If the previous statement is true, then that would classify pre-status/damage as an exploit. Since Anything Goes is about legal Pokémon and not exploit/glitches, it wouldn’t be allowed if this was true. Like I said earlier, I cannot confirm or deny whether or not there were RBY Anything Goes official tournaments back in 1996 and what their rules were on pre-status/damage. As I stated in my last comment, while GSC does allow for pre-status/damage, Stadium does not, so it could go either way. I don’t dislike old metagames, quite the opposite.

Tradebacks are possible between the Gen 1 and 2 games, but that doesn’t mean they are legal. Hence, why Stadium doesn’t allow them and Bill warns you against it.

I’m not against pre-status/damage and tradebacks because I personally dislike them. I’m just acknowledging that they are a different way to play RBY Anything Goes. However, that doesn’t mean that they are the true way to play RBY Anything Goes. Hence, this is why Gen 1 OU has Gen 1 OU (with tradebacks) and Gen 1 OU Stadium, like I said in my earlier comment.

When I think of RBY Anything Goes, I think of the first generation of Pokémon. Meanwhile, you also think of GSC and tradebacks. At this point, I think we should just agree to disagree on what constitutes as RBY Anything Goes.

About RBY Anything Goes not being simulated correctly, you are probably right about that. There is actually an overflow glitch in which if Mewtwo is at +5 or +6 special and drops a stage it goes to a very low number, but it wasn’t implemented in showdown AFAIK.

 

[Plague von Karma]

I’m not against pre-status/damage and tradebacks because I personally dislike them. I’m just acknowledging that they are a different way to play RBY Anything Goes. However, that doesn’t mean that they are the true way to play RBY Anything Goes. Hence, this is why Gen 1 OU has Gen 1 OU (with tradebacks) and Gen 1 OU Stadium, like I said in my earlier comment.

When I think of RBY Anything Goes, I think of the first generation of Pokémon. Meanwhile, you also think of GSC and tradebacks. At this point, I think we should just agree to disagree on what constitutes as RBY Anything Goes.

My point is that you're on about "Anything Goes except Pre-Status and Tradebacks" which is a fundamentally different thing from Anything Goes, which is about playing with anything that you can get without a cheating device or legitimate glitches. Pre-Status and Tradebacks are clearly intended mechanics. If there was such a massive concern over Gust Venomoth I'm pretty sure the entire feature would be removed, just, straight-up. It makes no sense to take it at face value and go "oh no, better cut it off", it makes sense to go "oh hey, you can do this without any abnormal occurrences or any strange behaviour". Tradebacks are considered because they are not glitches and thus a part of the game, no ideological mental gymnastics will change that fact. The community consensus is that if RBY was released now, influences would have been accepted. They are not in respect to OU because we have a storied, grassroots history with that tier and throwing that away basically kills the game. Thunder Punch Magmar is a byproduct of a legitimate feature, arguing semantics over it makes no sense.

So I checked Bulbapedia and Nintendo Cup happened in 1997 while Pokémon Stadium came out in 1998, though there is a Nintendo Cup game mode within Pokémon Stadium leading me to confuse the two. I didn’t know Nintendo Cup didn’t allow for pre-status/damage, but now I do and it strengthens my idea that if you were to participate in an official RBY Anything Goes tournament back then, you would be disqualified. If the previous statement is true, then that would classify pre-status/damage as an exploit. Since Anything Goes is about legal Pokémon and not exploit/glitches, it wouldn’t be allowed if this was true. Like I said earlier, I cannot confirm or deny whether or not there were RBY Anything Goes official tournaments back in 1996 and what their rules were on pre-status/damage. As I stated in my last comment, while GSC does allow for pre-status/damage, Stadium does not, so it could go either way. I don’t dislike old metagames, quite the opposite.

Which in this case, makes this argument moot, because it isn't "Anything Goes". Nor does it really matter, as that was then, this is now. We preserve OU because it is worth preserving. Even if there was evidence of some mythical AG tournament, I really don't think it would matter - this is Smogon, we make community rulesets. The point of Anything Goes is to allow as much as is legitimately possible, and these are most certainly legitimate. Play Ubers if you want rules.

Tradebacks are possible between the Gen 1 and 2 games, but that doesn’t mean they are legal. Hence, why Stadium doesn’t allow them and Bill warns you against it.

Stadium lets you play with them, they just show as illegitimate...

...and the reason why is clear. GSC wasn't released yet. Like, it isn't clairvoyant, what do you expect?

About RBY Anything Goes not being simulated correctly, you are probably right about that. There is actually an overflow glitch in which if Mewtwo is at +5 or +6 special and drops a stage it goes to a very low number, but it wasn’t implemented in showdown AFAIK.

The point is Pre-Status/Damage isn't implemented. It has never been simulated correctly because of that.

 

[Limit Evolution]

My point is that you're on about "Anything Goes except Pre-Status and Tradebacks" which is a fundamentally different thing from Anything Goes, which is about playing with anything that you can get without a cheating device or legitimate glitches. Pre-Status and Tradebacks are clearly intended mechanics. If there was such a massive concern over Gust Venomoth I'm pretty sure the entire feature would be removed, just, straight-up. It makes no sense to take it at face value and go "oh no, better cut it off", it makes sense to go "oh hey, you can do this without any abnormal occurrences or any strange behaviour". Tradebacks are considered because they are not glitches and thus a part of the game, no ideological mental gymnastics will change that fact. The community consensus is that if RBY was released now, influences would have been accepted. They are not in respect to OU because we have a storied, grassroots history with that tier and throwing that away basically kills the game. Thunder Punch Magmar is a byproduct of a legitimate feature, arguing semantics over it makes no sense.


Which in this case, makes this argument moot, because it isn't "Anything Goes". Nor does it really matter, as that was then, this is now. We preserve OU because it is worth preserving. Even if there was evidence of some mythical AG tournament, I really don't think it would matter - this is Smogon, we make community rulesets. The point of Anything Goes is to allow as much as is legitimately possible, and these are most certainly legitimate. Play Ubers if you want rules.


Stadium lets you play with them, they just show as illegitimate...

...and the reason why is clear. GSC wasn't released yet. Like, it isn't clairvoyant, what do you expect?


The point is Pre-Status/Damage isn't implemented. It has never been simulated correctly because of that.

You say “Anything Goes except pre-status and tradebacks” but I see you saying “Anything Goes with pre-status and tradebacks” Like I said in my earlier comment, we should agree to disagree. Pre-status/damage and tradebacks do contradict Stadium and probably what would be allowed in official tournaments. Shouldn’t we take what Bill and Stadium say at face value? If not, like I said in my earlier comment, there are many ways of playing RBY Anything Goes just like there are many ways of playing Gen 1 OU. There isn’t a true way of playing that being Anything Goes with pre-status/damage and tradebacks like you want to claim. I would suspect that there were unofficial Anything Goes tournaments back then with some allowing pre-status/damage. Like I said in my earlier comment, perhaps it was intended for people to make their own rules. Some people like you enjoy pre-status/damage and tradebacks. Some do not. However, I do think official RBY Anything Goes tournaments would not have allowed pre-status/damage and tradebacks if they ever were to take place.

If people have any incentive to play RBY Anything Goes, it would be to play the first metagame ever created using Gen 1 mechanics. Not Gen 2 stuff like tradebacks. If this was to be believed, then Gen 1 mechanics should take priority over Gen 2 mechanics like tradebacks.

Here are some sets that wouldn’t be usable in Gen 1 Ubers because of Sleep Clause but they will be useful in Anything Goes:

Parasect
Ability: No Ability
- Spore
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Leech Life

Jynx
Ability: No Ability
- Lovely Kiss
- Double Team
- Seismic Toss
- Blizzard

 

[Amaranth]

The definition of RBY Anything Goes will remain as is; it is coherent with Smogon tiering policies. If you want to play a tier with different policies, by all means go ahead, this lone thread isn't stopping you. This is all a gigantic moot point given that nobody has any tangible interest in any form of RBY AG. Please do not argue this point further.

 

[Limit Evolution]

So RBY AG would end up allowing pre-status, Dig/Fly, OHKO moves, Evasion, multiple Pokemon, multiple sleep/frz, and Tradebacks, if we're being consistent. This is pretty insane. I know some people like to say Tradebacks is something separate but I think they're kidding themselves. Plus, trust me, with pre-status around, you'd want Tradebacks. Badly. Anything but Tradebacks sounds cringe anyway.

Alright, assuming these rules I suppose I have to redo my theorymons from scratch.

The major difference from Ubers to Anything Goes is the removal of the species clause. This allows for six Mewtwo. This means that any Pokémon that had niches in Ubers are pretty much garbage in Anything Goes. For example, Amnesia Slowbro. Why use that when you can use a Mewtwo instead. In fact, why even use any other Pokémon. Just replace them all with Mewtwos. However, by technicality there are some advantages to using a non-Mewtwo even in Anything Goes.

One such example is Ice Type Pokémon like Jynx, Lapras, and Articuno. These Pokémon have the niche of being immune to freeze. Though now that you can pre-status your Mewtwo, these Pokémon kind of lose their niche. Still though, Mewtwo has to choose the status it wants which are Burn, Freeze, Paralyze, Sleep, and Poison. Freeze and Sleep are arguably the worst so that leaves Paralyze, Burn, and Poison. If Mewtwo chooses Paralyze, it is weak to Wrap/Fire Spin and the same applies to Burn and Poison. So maybe having no status could be the best choice or you could use one of those Ice Types I outlined above. Since you can have more than 1 Mewtwo, you can run coverage to defeat all these Pokémon anyways.

Another niche is wall-breaking. Since I’m assuming Amnesia Mewtwo is more common than Barrier Mewtwo (note: due to multiple Mewtwos, one may have the move Barrier). Mew can set up Swords Dance and that’s the niche it has.

Another niche is PP wars. Now thanks to the move Double Team existing, it makes it difficult if not impossible to kill another Pokémon in Anything Goes. Mew also has access to Transform. This move turns 1 PP into 20 PP. Of course, the Pokémon Mew transforms into needs to have recovery to make the most use of this. Fun fact: Mew can Transform into other Mew making the battle infinite. Paralysis can also be good for this.

Also worth noting is Chansey has more durability on the special side than Mewtwo. Not that that’s useful though, since if your opponent has more than 1 Mewtwo, one of them is bound to be physical.

What about invulnerability? Well first, you have a 1 in 4 chance of getting the first turn and a 1 in 4 chance of getting the second. I also found out if you know the method you can prevent looping back to 64 PP Wrap/Fire Spin in combination with invulnerability. Thus, I conclude it’s a bad strategy. If your invulnerability fails, Mewtwo sets up Amnesia. In fact, even if your invulnerable is successful, your opponent can switch to checks. Then when you’re about to switch out due to PP, Mewtwo sets up Amnesia.

OHKO moves? They only work when you’re faster. You can’t use Thunder Wave due to pre-status. You could use Agility, though if you don’t status yourself you get shut down by Thunder Wave. Mewtwo has 130 speed so you’ll need Agility. Also evasion affects OHKO in Gen 1 so Double Team might ruin your chances anyways.

What about Haze? The Pokémon that learn it are punching bags for Mewtwo. It’ll work if both of you aren’t using Mewtwo.

Sleep abuse doesn’t work due to pre-status, though I guess you could combo it with Haze.

Also Self-Destruct/Explosion isn’t as useful due to Double Team.

Some recommendations maybe run Substitute to stop OHKO moves.

 

[ZeStinky]

sounds fun apart from the dig/fly stuff, i dont like being absolutely forced to use 1 move

 

[Electra102]

Oh boy, is Swift mandatory now?
Thank goodness the ghosts don’t learn Dig or Fly

 

[sumwun]

Does this format accurately simulate desyncs?

 

[Chilln0]

Oh boy, is Swift mandatory now?
Thank goodness the ghosts don’t learn Dig or Fly

Rock types do tho ;)

 

[Melbelle]

Wanna add that Bide also cannot miss, including against Pokemon invulnerable due to Fly/Dig

Fly/Dig bug wouldn't even be that good really, you need two turns of setup and get the correct RNG and due to requiring pre-paralysis this leaves you vulnerable to just getting hit with strong moves repeatedly or OHKO moves. Obviously though you can't ignore it since if you have no moves that don't miss and your opponent gets it that's game. Dragonite is useful due to most mons either wanting to be paralyzed or poisoned and few mons carrying thunder wave due to pre-status. So Dragonite can just spam wrap, sometimes with agility against pre-status. Snorlax with Bide and Fissure is a beast (OHKO moves are based on speed, but speed modifiers such as paralysis DO count, so a healthy snorlax can use fissure against a paralyzed mew for example)

 

[Chilln0]

As a counter to Fly/Dig strats I propose running a Pokemon with the combination of Fly/Dig and Swift. There’s actually a lot of mons that have this, but I’d say the two best users are Mew and Aerodactyl. Aerodactyl for its Normal resistance (which is really valuable as only Normal type moves can hit you) and for being the fastest mon with Dig/Fly. Mew is also good for its Psychic resistance that helps it set up against Mewtwo, and also has the valuable combination of Swift and Swords Dance, letting it break through other abusers

 

[Clarkinator]

The Dig/Fly glitch de-activates if the user uses either move again, though this of course would require PP stalling their other 3 moves until they're forced to switch or use dig/fly. So I guess that's a viable strategy? Might see something like Defense Curl Chansey or some such to win PP stall wars in this matchup. I don't think Swift will be a particularly useful answer especially if you're also dealing with evasion bullshittery. And yeah, as stated, trying to chip down Rock types with Swift is an extremely sub-optimal position.

 

[Chilln0]

The Dig/Fly glitch de-activates if the user uses either move again, though this of course would require PP stalling their other 3 moves until they're forced to switch or use dig/fly. So I guess that's a viable strategy? Might see something like Defense Curl Chansey or some such to win PP stall wars in this matchup. I don't think Swift will be a particularly useful answer especially if you're also dealing with evasion bullshittery. And yeah, as stated, trying to chip down Rock types with Swift is an extremely sub-optimal position.

PP stalling it is harder than you’d think because the mon is already paralyzed. Also “if you’re also dealing with evasion bullshittery” ??? Swift bypasses the accuracy check entirely. Its unaffected by evasion. It can’t even 1/256 miss. In fact with mons running swift to deal with Dig/Fly evasion may just be completely useless.

As for the Rock types, this is why I’d say that Swift-Swords Dance-Fly Mew is the best answer. They can’t hit you without their own swift, and the only Rock type with Swift is Aerodactyl. A +6 Mew Swift is a guaranteed 4HKO against Aerodactyl, while Aerodactyl only 8HKOs in return

 

[Melbelle]

Dig/Fly bug is 18.75% to activate (don't FP, FP), OHKO moves are 30% accurate. Every attempt risks an FP turn 1 and an OHKO move hit. The odds of using Fly/Dig 3 times and failing to ever activate the bug 3 times is about 54%. Failing to activate it 3 times actually ensures 4 total hits due to starting slower so if you can at minimum 4HKO... You have ample time to either fire off OHKO moves or go for Body Slams + HBeam. Also Bide is a great PP stall tool as it lasts 2-3 turns. The best answer is to just not let it happen and if it happens anyway it's probably PP stalling with some combo of Bide, Rest, and resistances/immunities (Gengar is immune to Swift, Aero resists Swift and is immune to EQ, and is a flyer). I really think RBY AG is about OHKO move spam and some agiliwrap more than this one bug that consistently risks taking hits for 18.75% with counterplay. Wrap owns paralyzed mons too.

 

[Clarkinator]

Its unaffected by evasion. It can’t even 1/256 miss. In fact with mons running swift to deal with Dig/Fly evasion may just be completely useless.

What I intended to get across was "status moves in general" like Reflect and so on but for some reason my brain took a wrong turn somewhere and used 'evasion'. You raise good points anyway. I don't know if this dig/fly will be particularly great since there are a couple ways to deal with it. Though I have to assume Dig/Fly Mew will always be a potential win condition.

 

[Chilln0]

I really think RBY AG is about OHKO move spam and some agiliwrap more than this one bug that consistently risks taking hits for 18.75% with counterplay. Wrap owns paralyzed mons too.

Yeah you have a point with the chances with the OHKO moves being better than Dig/Fly. I don‘t think APT would be that good tho outside of cheesing paralyzed mons, because its easy to shut down with any status (would lose hp over time spamming wrap with poison or burn, wouldn’t function with paralysis, and sleep and freeze are lmao). Its also just as luck based as ohko moves are for less results

 

[Melbelle]

I don‘t think APT would be that good tho outside of cheesing paralyzed mons, because its easy to shut down with any status (would lose hp over time spamming wrap with poison or burn,

Bring it unstatused, status moves are bad due to pre-status so your opponent is unlikely to bring any. Poisoned mons being wrapped melt like butter.

 

[Shedinja-43152]

From Anything goes combos I think it is the most dangerous is Chansey with Minimize + softboiled
Chansey can come also with Toxic or Sing to be more annoying as possible