Tournament Post-ZUPL Discussion Thread

Lalaya

Banned deucer.
Well, the ZUPL IV is over, and with that the 9-week long competition that saw the most people heated in a debate right BEFORE the tournament, so let's see what YOU guys think about it!

Was 8 teams good or bad? Was double SM good or bad? What should we do next year?
Are you satisfied with the hosts and the manager choices, and the decisions taken?
Are you satisfied with how the tournament went up?

If you have anything to say about this ZUPL IV or what should happen in the next one, as well as any comment or proposal about next year's formats or rules, or just wanna narrate your experience, please do so!

On teams:
As a host, 7 or 9 weeks doesn't strictly matter to me, as in my workload doesn't change that much - Nevertheless, I heard complaints about how 8 teams made it less competitive, but I'm waiting those people to speak up and explain better than me; either way, at least we're covered for retains
On format: Double SM was the best alternative for the tournament out of the possible ones, and I think it got reflected in the teams too, where BW didn't really kick up, there's already annoyance at having to prep this much for these many weeks and no other format is played enough for it to be added; with next gen we don't have to pick x2 of anything, but x2 SS might be all right specifically for next year, but that's a matter of the future host
Retains, manager prices, etc: not really much to say, we can tune manager prices better for a better "representation" instead of a change this small but w/e, and 1 retain is perfectly fine imo
If you want both managers to play or just one, that's on you to decide, but I think this year's format was functionally okay and the only real gripe is in how this tier can't handle 8 teams that well in this competition
Lastly, I just want to emphasize that it's okay if you're unhappy with some of the choices we made, you don't have to strictly agree with me (or Oath) over some administrative decisions or anything like that, although we still believe we made the right ones
 

Jett

gm gobodachis
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Before the tournament had even begun, I was one of the most vocal people against increasing to 8 teams and despite winning this tournament, I still stand by the fact that 8 team was the wrong move and decreased the quality of the tournament in various ways.

Obviously there was the notable drop in the quality of games in certain tiers, especially in SS where the metagame for the first time was much bulkier and mainers (myself included) tend to be quite bad at playing out longer games resulting in many chokes, although some players who had to pick up the meta for the first time also struggled due to the fact that the teams they brought were bad to be blunt. SS builder pool was extremely limited besides the managers themselves, for instance on my team I was building pretty all the SS teams, like for all 3 slots in the earlier weeks and later 2 when we received more help for players from other teams, and goat Baitwiz who wasn't even properly drafted LOL. You can argue that this is poor draft management but honestly, SS builders being so limited and some of these builders only ever built for their own slot meant either managers had to pick up the slack and build an obscene amount or a dedicated builder like me had to.

This obviously resulted in a ton of burnout as the weeks went on. I will admit I probably get burnt out easier than most other mons players but spending many hours on ZUPL teams in a metagame I enjoyed less and less as the weeks went on made it very difficult to stay motivated. Less teams would have meant less weeks, more builders potentially available to help me and therefore everyone has a more enjoyable experience. I genuinely think that if we did not have the results that we did, my mental would have gone boom at some stage since I was super down when we got 3-0ed in SS during week 2 since all of those teams were mine. Fortunately we turned it around and the fact that we were through already before the last week meant I could chill in DPP for week 7 and the tiebreak gave me a very much needed break to reset for playoffs.

I can't really speak on whether we had the quality of managers for 8 teams as well since I was only in Butterfrees cord, but both of mine were good and were very supportive during the whole tournament, even when I decided to click 20 turns in a minute lol. I did however hear that some experiences with their respective teams were not as good as mine; I don't know if that's because their teams performed poorly and then everyone just became demotivated or if managers were sorta inactive/new and didn't really understand how to create a good team environment. While fewer managers helps in the the short term, I do understand giving more people a chance to be a manager will mean future ZUPLs should have a higher quality of managers who will draft better/support better etc.

Most of the push for 8 teams was because people wanted to see btboy get a team but when he got a team, this stopped. Nobody wanted it any more and it seemed like the "oversight" or whatever you want to call it was covered. However, it was really odd when the leadership then decided that this was the correct move despite the fact that no one really said 8 teams was good post btboy getting a team, while several people said that this would not be a good idea. Properly assess playerbase for next year so we don't have this weird thing happen again, timing probably made it worse than it appears to be but in my mind this change was net negative.

Honestly, thankful that the last slot debate was not SS because I would not have been able to handle building 4 slots. I don't really know if 2 SM was the right call as a neutral party who doesn't really play either. SM support seemed shaky for us sometimes but I think my team still ended up positive, though 2 BW woulda been great for us since we had SEA on bench and he woulda popped off. I think there were probably more BW players who were solid but I don't think 2 SM was that bad either. Next year this shouldn't be an issue if we move to 3 SV and then 1 of each old gen from SS to DPP.

Manager choices were generally fine, TL bias is whatever tbh. Drud definitely deserved a team and I definitely never said otherwise before he drafted me.
Still think Toto and btboy deserved to be managing in the original 6 picked but it didn't really matter as they got their team in the end. Ultimately picking managers while based on some metrics will inevitably end up as slightly subjective so some people will always disagree with the decision made. Also glad that my good frens czim and fruits got a shot at managing, and they did exceptionally well so I guess that's 1 good thing about 8 teams. 1 retain seemed good, and 1 manager buy seemed good as well. Pricing will probably have to get changed for next year given how this tour went on for longer and that several managers complained about them being priced too high but ho3n went 9-0 for 18k so ye...

Overall, I think the tournament went pretty well after the start of the tour got off to a shaky start. Hopefully, I didn't miss anything. Once again, thank you for hosting Lalaya and Oath.
 

Danny

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ZU Circuit Champion
Was going to make a detailed post about my teams and why and how I built them. Was actually going to create the ZUPL set and Team dump like last year. I very motivated to help people get an insight into how I build and how much fun sszu can be. Then I realized I don’t want to contribute to a community that targets, enables ppl to quit, and then two months after the fact gets me put on DNA w circumstantial (evidence never shown to me) evidence because I questioned the methods of the authority. Not to mention that according to the staff that spoke w me it seems the only evidence is timing related at best. So if anyone would like teams hmu.

DurzaOffTopic ty fam for drafting me and retaining me was a rlly enjoyable tour w u as always and we had a lot of laughs and great times. Loved the team we drafted wouldn’t want it another way. Shame it ended in the fiery way it did.

Greybaum absolute goat helped me a lot in ss and proceeded to hard carry sm every week. You’re a great mind for this game.

ayevon even tho you’re gay you’re a baller and came in to win every week w innovations and ideas I never expected out of someone I didn’t know playing a tier they didn’t know. Good looks and hope to be w u in the future <3
A01AE503-0701-4E13-9C99-F2A5BBDC1086.jpeg


pinorska youve grown to be a great friend of mine and although initially u thought u were on crack, you showed that you are a dedicated player and a great friend. Looking forward to playing w u in more
tours since we both seem to sign up for everything possible.

TheKingKarp and ojr y’all are both some of my closest friends on the site and although our ss didn’t do as well as we expected the building w y’all and playing w y’all was exceptionally fun. U both have great futures in mons if you choose to continue. And tkk make sure to constantly make videos of me it makes me feel better about myself.

5gen after having very little conversation with you before this tour I was surprised at the grasp you have at mons. You always owned(me when we were vs eachother in ss and others in the old gens zu), however you came in withgreat insight into ss and Ora’s every week and are a pleasure to be around.

Heysup Ik I wasn’t able to give you the support in dpp you wanted but you managed to turn around the season after a rocky start. I couldn’t test with you when u wanted and im sorry for that but every time I team w you, you are always the silent killer. Goat as always <3

Ren LOL bwzu. Nah but ur le goat hope you feel better soon and slay in scl. Please continue to humor my ssnu challs at random times.

yovan33321 you are the best. After initially thinking you were xboss 2(mind you this was a year ago) I learned through our battles in various tiers and tours that you are a force to be reckoned w.My favorite French andgood friend keep it up.

Jett great friend on the site and great testing buddy all tour don’t lose hope.

btboy lol love u bro.

everyone else not s/o you guys were fun tohang w and wish y’all luck in tours.

8 teams was too many for the tier. I have no say now at all in how this will be run. However, I will point out extreme burn out with regards to innovation specifically when it comes to the end of the tour and sszu in particular. I tried to keep things fresh myself but was hard when the tier is very centralizing and u want to get your players the best stuff with no room for error. I think the amount of slots was fine no issues there. Some of the manager decisions were shaky at best, outright odd at worst. Otherwise everyone did a good job.

s/o Lalaya and Oathkeeper exceptional hosting.
 
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5Dots

Chairs
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I personally think that 8 teams was too much. While the chance to play more opponents and test more teams was exciting, I think that this may lead to players being more vulnerable to burnout and it takes up more time in real-life. Having to prep for multiple opponents on varying styles can put a lot of pressure and it wasn't always easy to find availability in the last two weeks. If ZU had a larger playerbase it would've been more justified to have the additional teams. This would also been justified if ADV or GSC was included, but since they were not included in the lineups, it's not the case.

Didn't really have any issue with the formatting of double SM and thought it was enjoyable for both returning and new players alike. I wouldn't mind having it return next year but would be open to discussing other formats for next ZUPL.

For someone who’s managed for the first time I think it went relatively well, as I got to create a lot of teams for multiple gens and enjoyed the building process throughout all of them. I got to meet with fellow ZU players as well as tour players i haven’t interacted as much, and i appreciated being able to do so. I feel i could’ve delegated a bit more time communication and test games but overall i was happy to have things turned out relatively well!

For next ZUPL with the release of SV i feel format should have 3 SV / 1 SS / 1 SM / 1 ORAS / 1 BW / 1 DPP. I feel ADV and GSC could be given a chance if ZU gets more popularity/made to an official tier, but it’s really tough given how most other official tiers have a lot more activity in general, both on ladder and in tours. I think it’s definitely possible though, and I want their meta games to keep developing!
 
I'll preface this by mentioning I'm very new to the ZU scene and mostly involve myself in BW, but I think it's more important to base the number of teams on player pool rather than managers. If there are 3 current gen slots, then 8 teams will require a lot of building and even more players. I had a great time on my team, but building for one old gen a week wasn't exactly easy, so I feel for the poor solo SwSh builder pumping out ~20 teams over 2 months.

TLDR: Managers were great, but if the player pool can't support 24 current gen players, then maybe 6 teams would be better.
 

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