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first, I'd like to ask you to use something else over Magnezone, since I am not putting it anywhere else at this point. You can use anything you want, obviously, just that it'd be more useful if you tested something else that needs some testing
Since you are playing Ultra Sun, I would be really happy if you used the Totem Marowak. You get it after 40 Totem stickers. The 40th one is obtained at Route 8, meaning that its first matchup is going to be Lurantis. When using Totem Marowak (or Cubone), it is crucially important that you steal the boss Totem's Thick Club with Thief (with something else, obviously). If you do this, you get to keep the Thick Club and, as an added bonus, you make the fight easier, so this is arguably a positive for Marowak (lol). If you don't do that, you have to itemhunt a Thick Club.
The test is mainly an S vs A one. It is incredibly powerful, but it skips like five fights due to its availability. For the record, DrumstickingGaming has used it and is also fine with S-tier. [...]
Yeah, I had a look at Alolan 'Wak. I didn't find him that interesting at the time but I forgot the typing changed to ghost+fire in Alolan form (didn't want overlap with Mudbray). The reason I didn't go for him in the end, is because of my Amulet Coin OCD. If he's equipped w/ Thick Club, he can't carry Amulet Coin and I have to do switcharoo shenanigans. Definitely not a crisis though. On that note, would it be interesting at all to do a "bare bones" (I'm on fire with all these puns) Alolan Marowak. That is to say without the Thick Club. Or is it only considered for A or S tier valuation when holding Thick Club? Obviously, the x2 attack boost is dumb to ignore but maybe some insight can be gained on the naked version.
For other members, Pikipek/Zubat/Wingull from A-tier can certainly receive more testing. If you want some more "rank variety", Spearow/Totem Gumshoos (this has Adaptability, ftr, which is why it's one tier above Yungoos currently), Honedge (if you can use the Island Scan), and Murkrow are also some options that can be tested out, if you are interested in any of them. Also, I know you said you don't want to use more than five Pokemon, but, if you want to, you could add Barboach as a 6th teammate and never use it on the field. This is cause it's an in-game trade, so it can keep up with most of your team without being used too much.
Zubat/Crobat is definitely an option. He's very efficient total-stats-to-exp-group ratio. Good moves, natural Toxic user, learns Leech Life, can do Toxic or poison/Attract/Confuse Ray/Protect/Double Team shenenigans and do a roundabout sweep. I didn't pick him just because I've played this mon numerous times in other, previous games.
Pikipek and Wingull do not really interest me. Spearow/Fearow has ok attack+speed stats along with Drill Peck and Drill Run (+Mirror Move on dragons??...)(Agility+Assurance? Gimmicky?) but I'm not sure if he's going up or down a tier and if my testing will bring anything interesting. Moderately motivated to pick it up.
Honedge/Aegislash seems incredibly strong! But Dusk Stone comes in really late and is it not found in Mali only in Moon/UM?
I might have time for another run before I start my studies in August.
Wimpod feels low at C.
Murkrow/Litwick is more useful in UM w/ earlier Dusks Stone.
On that note, would it be interesting at all to do a "bare bones" (I'm on fire with all these puns) Alolan Marowak. That is to say without the Thick Club. Or is it only considered for A or S tier valuation when holding Thick Club? Obviously, the x2 attack boost is dumb to ignore but maybe some insight can be gained on the naked version.
there's no reason to use a bare bones Marowak, given that getting a Thick Club off the boss one isn't so hard (and as I said, it makes the fight easier). A bare bones Marowak is like using Hawlucha without STAB moves or Thick Fat Azumarill (in that you are needlessly making your Pokemon significantly worse). Money is almost never an issue in Alola, so it not holding an Amulet Coin shouldn't be a huge loss. And yes, its ranking assumes you take the Thick Club, because, again, there's zero reason not to take it.
Zubat/Crobat is definitely an option. He's very efficient total-stats-to-exp-group ratio. Good moves, natural Toxic user, learns Leech Life, can do Toxic or poison/Attract/Confuse Ray/Protect/Double Team shenenigans and do a roundabout sweep. I didn't pick him just because I've played this mon numerous times in other, previous games.
I'd not factor in Double Team or Attract, because those moves are entirely RNG-based and I would never tier something highly cause of those moves (given that everything can use them). Toxic seems niche, but I have never tried it. Zubat's strongest points are Flying typing + the early Flyinium Z and later on Haze to remove boosts from bosses like Mimikyu and Kommo-o. Its Acrobatics is also fairly powerful.
Pikipek and Wingull do not really interest me. Spearow/Fearow has ok attack+speed stats along with Drill Peck and Drill Run (+Mirror Move on dragons??...)(Agility+Assurance? Gimmicky?) but I'm not sure if he's going up or down a tier and if my testing will bring anything interesting. Moderately motivated to pick it up.
if you really want a gimmick, Z-Mirror Move is funny cause it gives you free SD + it uses the Z-Move of whatever it copies. With that said, the tests are to confirm tiers, so it's okay if you don't find anything interesting, it's just to see if the rank is correct for the Pokemon.
main reason it's B is because it covers Ultra Necrozma and Hau in one slot (if you picked Litten, at least), though it also performs well elsewhere in the end-game. Concerns of C were brought up. And yes, only UM players get an earlier Dusk Stone, though your only major battle between Nanu and Poni Island is Guzma #3 (Lusamine and URSquad aren't taken into account when tiering) and I don't think Doublade/Aegislash will be destroying him either ways.
Also, to make it clear for everyone, I am in no ways putting Honedge below Beldum, given that the former is by most standards better than the latter, so if we come to consensus that Honedge is C-tier, I may have to be a bit tyrannical and drop Beldum to C too. It is still raising to B for now, obviously, but there's a reason why I won't be establishing it there just yet.
perhaps Charmander through the QR? Early on, you are mostly spamming Dragon Rage, which 2HKOs everything on Hala's team, Araquanid, and Marowak (Marowak is a win if you outspeed, Araquanid is a win if you live a Bubble, since that thing is hella slow even with the +1). Later on, Fire Pledge + Work Up should hold it for most fights on Ula'Ula (combined with Z-Sunny Day and maybe triggering Blaze too). It even beat Mimikyu in my case, albeit in a niche manner. You can read more about my initial experiences with it here. You need to fnd the other post to see the full nomination, though.
Alternatively, use Caterpie, C vs B rank. It is useful for much of the early-game and can be useful later on with QD and Sleep Powder.
important edit: if using Charmander, note that Counter can come in use against Kommo-o.
Alolan Marowak is absolutely bonkers, seriously. It's a pain to get with how you'll likely have to crack open a guide for 40 Stickers and Thief a Thick Club (not horrible but still) but the payoff is absolutely worth it. Heck, I'd call it the most broken (part) Fire type since Darumaka!
Flame Charge and Fire Punch are absurdly spammable moves, and given just how HARD this thing hits with Thick Club you nuke everything. Shadow Bone (which you don't get on a normal Cubone pre-E4 FYI) is a great STAB, and Brick Break is easy to TM on.
So if you can get past the somewhat more-than-average investment (including the BP for Fire Punch if you want it) you get a walking nuke at level 25 (pretty high-leveled for mid-game) has virtually its entire moveset in only a few levels (as Shadow Bone comes at 27) which proceeds to crush every boss not named Kommo-o, and even THEN it leaves it at red.
So with all this said, is Totem Alolan Marowak S tier? It's hard to say. It comes later than fellow S tiers Hawlucha and Mudbray, but has comparable boss matchups. I think that yes, it can be S, but only barely. Think similarly to how Axew in Unova dominates (though that's an A) despite the late arrival, or maybe how Golem in HGSS is A despite its matchup pedigree.
Off-topic, but I'm surprised someone thought Popplio was B. I can understand the matchup struggles but I thought most people thought it was on par with Litten, if not better. I might have to run with it at some point.
ok did my run with Zam / Gigalith / Golisopod / Empoleon / Pidgeot / Chesnaught. Info is below
I want to note that my retests won't necessarily result in a tier change (unless I state otherwise). This is because I either try to be "unbiased" and purposelly change their tier or I am biased and don't do it. They do, however, let me get a more modern perspective on the Pokemon, which helps me make a decision when placing it somewhere permanently.
Alakazam
This is currently in condition of dropping to B, per the OP, due to Psychic-types being pretty bad defensively. Alakazam is a bit different in that it's actually a great Pokemon, as it can outspeed and OHKO many of them before they can KO itthemselves. Alakazam tends to be bad for most Totems, but is very good for most human boss fights.
In terms of matchups, Alakazam destroys Hala, Hapu, and Acerola completely, OHKOs Kommo-o with Z-Psychic, can beat Ribombee if it successfully steals its boosts with Psych Up, can beat 2/3 of Nanu's team, and is useful for Olivia #1. At the E4, it's only useful for Molayne and Olivia when Focus Blast hits, but it can take out 4/5 of Kahili's Pokemon due to Specs Psychic OHKOing all of those (only Hawlucha outspeeds and it fails to OHKO with Throat Chop). It can also sweep Hau if you picked Litten; you CM on Raichu twice, heal it once, then OHKO it and Decidueye with Shadow Ball. Vaporeon dies to Z-Psychic and the rest die to Psychic.
The main difference from this run and the last time I used this was that my Zam was slower, as it failed to outspeed and therefore beat Lurantis. I also didn't have a Zam for Totem Gumshoos.
All in all, I am not gonna move Zam anywhere yet, because I want to see a slightly less biased opinion on it (given I like Zam and am sort of used to placing it high on lists). This by no means should constitute as a final say on Zam's ranking or performance, this is simply me leaving Zam to someone else with more objective opinion on it.
Gigalith
I am thinking of dropping Gigalith to C. I noticed that Gigalith isn't as reliable as I remember it to be. It has a chance of winning against Marowak and Mimikyu, but a *chance* (Marowak needs to never Detect, Jellicent and Mimikyu beat it together if it goes for Z-Iron Head). It is good for Olivia #1 and Ribombee and can sweep Kahili with Rock Polish. Unfortunately, Gigalith isn't solid for Guzma, as Masquerain tends to outspeed it even after Rock Polish. In addition, his Pinsir can live Rock Slide and OHKO back with Storm Throw. Stone Edge can help with the third fight, assuming it hits. All in all, this seems on par with Lycanroc-Day, which is currently C-tier, so I will drop it there. And even if Rockruff (US) didn't exist, this wouldn't change the fact that Gigalith doesn't have a lot of reliable matchups.
Wimpod
I am going to admit defeat here and raise Wimpod to C, although I want to say that it's at the bottom of C-tier, if ordered by viability. Basically, it can sweep Olivia #1 and is good for the second fight as well, while claiming KOs against Molayne (Klefki, Bisharp, Dugtrio). Normally, this would place it in D-tier. However, First Impression also 3HKOs Ultra Necrozma , meaning that two Revives are enough to beat it. Due to this, I am willing to inflate its tier a bit.
However, Wimpod won't be established there just yet. I want a third person to test this and give a final opinion on it. So basically, next test decies its tier. Note: I am not putting it higher than C, because it's not the best thing either. I have to admit, though, it's an awesome route cleaner.
Pidgeot
Keeping this in E-tier. It can OHKO Kommo-o with +1 Z-Fly, but it relies on TPunch rolling low damage for a 3HKO. It can also beat RIibombee. Against the other fights, it can spam Featherdance. Basically, I am fine with E, but I could push it to D if someone wants to make a case for that.
Prinplup
I am going to drop Prinplup to C-tier. Other than its late availability, Empoleon suffers from lack of power, sometimes, and reliance on heavy setup to sweep. For example, it needs three Work Ups and Z-Rain Dance to sweep Guzma. Furthermore, even at +1, Empoleon i still kind of slow, as Nanu's Krokorok managed to outspeed it.
Empoleon's good performance really only starts once you get past Kommo-o. Three Roto Boosts and a healing item allow it to beat Ultra Necrozma, as they allow Empoleon to KO it with Z-Shadow Claw and Shadow Claw. Later on, Ribombee dies to +1 Z-Steel Wing + Scald, while Hapu has 3/4 of her team defeated by the penguin. At the E4, it can find some use against Molayne, crush Olivia with Specs Scald, and deal a heavy blow to Kahili with one Work Up and Z-Rain Dance (you won't sweep, but if you trigger Torrent against Hawlucha, you basically kill 4/5 of her team). All in all, Prinplup turned out to be quite usable, but it lacks some raw power and needs heavy set up to compensate for that. I would like a second test on this to seal C-tier and make sure it's not D-tier. I am not sure if I want it back in B at this point.
Chesnaught
turned to be useful for an end-game Pokemon. Bulk Up allows it to get past Olivia and Molayne, though it will require healing against both to sweep. Keeping this in E-tier, not higher because late availability + only two relevant matchups.
tl;dr Wimpod rises to C and Gigalith and Prinplup drop to C. All of those will need an additional test to secure those tiers, though Prinplup is not likely to go back to B at this point.
for next run, I am going to actually use Popplio and decide its final rank. I will also use Kangaskhan (which was never used by me, it was used by Drums) and see if it's good in C-tier. I will also test Mimikyu. Just to warn everyone that I may take a very tyrannical approach to tiering Mimikyu. This is because I want to keep the list as consistent as possible. Imagine if Mimikyu has, say, three good matchups only, I can't just put it above, say, Bisharp, which has around twice as many. Of course, if I find it to be B-tier, it is B-tier, but if not, we will have a problem.
I will most likely fill the rest of my team with some D-tiers or something or maybe Gardevoir.
comfey must be level 18 or lower to have draining kiss. USUM makes this literally impossible, as its encounter was raised one level.
meaning no STAB. yay.
In all seriousness, Grimer isn’t dead weight per se, but it does have bleh bosses until Muk. High tier on paper but in practice it’s…ew. Pretty good field performance at least.
comfey must be level 18 or lower to have draining kiss. USUM makes this literally impossible, as its encounter was raised one level.
meaning no STAB. yay.
In all seriousness, Grimer isn’t dead weight per se, but it does have bleh bosses until Muk. High tier on paper but in practice it’s…ew. Pretty good field performance at least.
I have used it. As Drums said, GF pulled a Cubone here and made it impossible to have a STAB move until the end-game. Nevertheless, Comfey is very usable, as Z-Growth + Giga Drain spam lets it sweep Olivia #1 and Nanu. I wish I had tried a Psych Up + Z-Growth strategy on Mimikyu, but I doubt it'd win without heavy support from teammates anyways. It will lag a bit in terms of performance until Poni Island, where it picks up again. Against Kommo-o, it can Z-Psych Up then spam Dazzling Gleam for the win. Then it can sweep Hapu and dent Kahili majorly (CM twice on Braviary, spam Draining Kiss till Toucannon, where you go for DGleam and Draining Kiss and you can break through Oricorio if confusion isn't screwing you over). It also swept Hau in my case, as two CMs allowed it to OHKO or 2HKO most of his Pokemon with Draining Kiss, (Z-)Dazzling Gleam, and Giga Drain (in fact, you 2HKO or OHKO all of them with the appropriate move). It's C-tier for this reason, though if someone is interested in testing it, it won't hurt to try it.
For Nosepass, its weakest point is that Nosepass phase isn't the best and you will be babying it for a bit due to Slow growth rate. As a Probopass, it can weaken Mimikyu (you need team support to win with it) and can claim KOs against Guzma, Kahili, and Molayne, though it does not sweep any of them. It can also be used to Toxic stall on Ultra Necrozma. It can also beat Totem Ribombee, though Blissey can heal it and prolong the fight, maybe even make it a loss for you. All in all, I didn't feel it was good enough for C, though I may be underestimating it. I was planning on asking for an additional test on it once we settled most of the higher tiers,and I'd rather people focus on those right now, rather than bother with D-tiers.
also, reminder that the upcoming slate will be held tomorrow. If you have any additional nominations, please make them now if you want them to be featured in. I will try to complete my new run by tomorrow so I can feature those in the slate too.
won't hurt to test it, mostly to see if it's B-tier.
e: my team is Popplio / Delibird / Mawile / Kangaskhan / Mimikyu / Delphox. Delibird and Mawile are retests, Kangaskhan is to confirm C-tier, Delphox is leftover, Popplio and Mimikyu are to settle their rankings.
Lv. 45 Guzma 2: Okay, so obviously everything kills you in one hit. If you have Golisopod waste it's First Impression on something else, you can force it out with Super Fang. Z-Last Resort does about 70-80%, Crunch about 33%, so you could technically kill it. -1 Sucker does under half to Masquerain and it outspeeds and OHKOs you so yeah. I imagine you could revenge kill it from pretty high percents though. Z-Last Resort does about 70% to Pinsir. Yeah, not a good matchup, best you can do is get a revenge kill and then some Sucker Punch chip.
Lv. 46 Nanu: Assuming you hit everything, you actually get a clean sweep with 1 item lol. Crunch 2hkos Sableye, Krokorok outspeeds you but doesn't finish you and -1 Z-Last Resort kills it, and after healing, Super Fang into Sucker into Last Resort kills Persian with you just barely hanging on. The chance of this happening is pretty low, I imagine, but it's funny that you can do it. Realistically, you kill Sableye and maybe Krokorok if you have enough HP to survive EQ (can't have taken more than 2 Power Gems in a row).
This thing is starting to fall off kinda hard. I don't really see any good matchups in the near future, either, so... yeah.
Lv. 45 Guzma 2: Trigger Guts with the Flame Orb (dude in Ula'ula meadow gives one to you). Golisopod doesn't First Impression you and you outspeed, so you can Rock Slide and force it out. From there, all you need is to do is keep spamming Rock Slide, healing when low on health (2 potions, generally). Not too bad but needs items.
Lv. 45/46 Nanu: Do NOT use Guts here; it turns Krokorok's EQ into a 2HKO. Just Z-Work Up on Sableye and heal after every kill to win.
It's still sweeping, but now it's needing some item support.
Lv. 45 Guzma 2: Very luck-based matchup. You need to get to Masquerain at +2 and with a bit over 100 HP to survive Air Slash. This means sleeping Golisopod, hoping it doesn't wake up and start getting Razor Shell drops (which pretty much mean you aren't getting to Masquerain with the needed HP), and using an item because Giga Draining Golisopod isn't enough. Pinsir is killed at +2 unless you have a -SpAtk nature like me, in which case it's a roll.
Lv. 46 Nanu: My notes just say "Z-Sunny Day, Growth, profit" which is an accurate descriptor of this fight. Dominant matchup.
No other comments other than that it's high EXP gain means I'm not getting too much route trainer data, but I imagine it does well enough.
Lv. 45/46 Guzma 2: Specs Revelation Dance sweeps with absolutely no danger to you.
Lv. 46 Nanu: Unfortunately a poor matchup. Sableye and Persian's Power Gems just do a bit too much for it to handle, so it only really beats 1 mon. Probably its worst matchup yet.
Lv. 45 Guzma 2: Set up Z-Sun and start Flare Blitzing, healing as needed. Even out of sun, you outrun and OHKO Masquerain at -1. Good if item-dependant matchup.
Lv. 46 Nanu: You can get through almost his whole team, but you need a very specific set of actions: Flame Charge x2 (this makes him heal Sableye and allows you to outrun Krok), normal Sunny Day, heal, Flare Blitz x2 (kills both Sableye and Krokorok), heal (Persian outspeeds unless you're +3), Flame Charge, Inferno Overdrive (or Flare Blitz to have some other Z-move user kill it). Take that as you will. There may be a more optimal route through this fight, but this is the best I found.
Flare Blitz is really dummy strong. Like, holy crap. Recoil isn't fun but absolutely dropping everything is.
Lv. 45 Guzma 2: For some reason, Golisopod didn't First Impression this into oblivion, but Psychic Fangs did like 30% and Razor Shell + Sucker Punch killed so eh. Both his other mons OHKO and Pinsir takes like 66% from Z-Aqua Tail so yeah crappy matchup.
Lv. 45 Nanu: Hydro Vortex OHKOs Sableye then Krokorok comes in and OHKOs you. Persian does the same. Also a bad matchup.
With all due respect, I have absolutely 0 idea how this ended up in B-rank. It has fallen flat in every single matchup so far and I do not see a light at the end of this tunnel.
Off-topic, but I'm surprised someone thought Popplio was B. I can understand the matchup struggles but I thought most people thought it was on par with Litten, if not better. I might have to run with it at some point.
Me saying that Popplio should be B does not mean it's a bad Pokemon in any capacity, it's just that it is underwhelming compared to other Water types such as Wishiwashi and Gyarados. Granted, the Fairy type is a good type to have, but its Defense is terrible leading to extremely negative matchups against most bosses that it does not have a STAB super-effective move on, and even in some matchups where it can be seen clearly winning, Popplio ends up losing, such as Totem Kommo-o and the Hala fight.
Me saying that Popplio should be B does not mean it's a bad Pokemon in any capacity, it's just that it is underwhelming compared to other Water types such as Wishiwashi and Gyarados. Granted, the Fairy type is a good type to have, but its Defense is terrible leading to extremely negative matchups against most bosses that it does not have a STAB super-effective move on, and even in some matchups where it can be seen clearly winning, Popplio ends up losing, such as Totem Kommo-o and the Hala fight.
I agree B tier isn’t for bad Pokémon. Sorry if it came across that way. And you’re perfectly entitled to your own opinion!
Hala and Totem Kommo-o are very difficult fights though. Like, the list of counters to both is less than a handful of mons. I’d say they are arguably worse than even the Akala bosses.
Also remember Popplio / Brionne does not get STAB on Disarming Voice for Hala, making it technically neutral. I’ve lost with a Brionne on Hala myself.
- Kommo-o has a lot more checks if you count Psych Up. And I'd argue that Psych Up is a legitimate strategy, given it's, on theory, useful for Mimikyu, Ribombee, and Ultra Necrozma (and in the case of Oranguru, Togedemaru), so I wouldn't dismiss it as "niche"
- Flareon is probably better off using a special moveset, particularly Lava Plume at level 37 and later on Flamethrower through TMs. At least that's how I used it. Regardless, the matchups shown in the logs seem comparable to my special Flareon, so I guess for now, it's a moot point anyways.
- Since it came to my mind, I updated the OP to ban any strategies that involve using more than one Z-Move per battle. The Rotom Dex can give you the opportunity to use a second Z-Move and I think we all know that this would be overpowered on many Pokemon, so banning it just in case sounds good to me
===
so, first, here are the results of my run:
Popplio
I very much agree with A-tier, but heavily disagree with S-tier. Popplio does start out a bit eh, but Popplio pretty much resembles Magnemite a bit; they both start eh, but become amazing around Akala. In the case of Popplio, you can beat Marowak with Hydro Vortex in rain. As I have mentioned, the way most Waters deal with this fight is to set up rain while it Detects and literally Wishiwashi/Gyarado are the exceptions. Later on, Brionne is ueful for Olivia #1 and it reaches its peak performance when it evolves into Primarina.
Primarina can instantly OHKO Togedemaru with Z-Sparkling Aria. The only problem there would be if it goes for Spiky Shield turn one (it goes for Zing Zap turn one, in most cases), as Sparkling Aria won't finish it off, but Torrent is generally triggered, which renders this worry a moot point. The first Guzma fight is the only one where Primarina doesn't sweep. In the next two, however, it can Work Up, Z-Rain Dance, then KO Golisopod with Moonblast, then spam Sparkling Aria to OHKO the rest while outspeeding. Against Mimikyu, you Psych Up, then Icy Wind, then OHKO with Oceanic Operetta (regardless of Torrent or not). Sweeps Nanu easily (Z-Rain Dance then spam Moonblast) and can even beat Ribombee with Psych Up and Oceanic Operetta.
Hapu is an easy sweep with Specs Sparkling Aria and the E4 is all around favorable to it. Primarina can generally take out 4/5 of each E4 member's teams, some requiring some Z-Rain Dance strategies. Against Molayne, you beat Klefki, bring Primarina against Dugtrio and you OHKO with Sparkling Aria while it puts you in Torrent range. Then you OHKO Metagross with Oceanic Operetta and Bisharp with Sparkling Aria. Olivia is just Specs Sparkling Aria spam where you avoid Cradily and heal against Probopass. Acerola is easy, for obvious reasons. Against Kahili, you OHKO Braviary with Sparkling Aria, as Torrent is triggered again. You switch out against Hawlucha and bring it back against Mandibuzz. You Z-Rain Dance, KO it with Moonblast, then spam Sparkling Aria on the rest (if Flattered, Full Restore to fix it). Against Hau, you beat whatever you can hit super effectively.
it is important to note that Popplio is not entirely useless against Verdant Totem and Hala. In the former's case, Echoed Voice spam can weaken it significantly, while in the latter's case, two Work Ups + Z-Echoed Voice + two Disarming Voices beat Machop and Makuhita. Not ideal, but it's better than nothing
All in all, I will establish Popplio in A-tier. While the strategies above aren't "mash A-button", Primarina reaches a power that only a few Pokemon can reach. It is all-around a solid Pokemon that can overcome many neutral and even seemingly-bad matchups.
Delibird
I will drop Delibird to D-tier. Its really only useful contributions are Araquanid and Lurantis and Hustle makes it a pretty bad route cleaner when not using Aerial Ace. I think D-tier is better overall and C was an overreaction by me due to the fact Delibird for once isn't meme-tier.
Mawile
I am not gonna touch it for now, as Mawile yet again had a weird performance. Basically, it can Intimidate any Totem it wants and tends to beat all bosses it hits super effectively. However, it has no STAB moves until post-Togedemaru and it tends to hit pretty weak with non-STAB moves. Good matchups include Kommo-o, Mimikyu, Ribombee, and Olivia #2. All in all, I think I am actually more confused as to what tier I would want Mawile to be more than ever .
Kangaskhan
not gonna move it to D, but not entirely convinced of C-tier as of yet. 1% on this thing sucks and it didn't feel particularly powerful. It was useful for Lurantis and Olivia #1, while weakening Mimikyu, contributing against Nanu, and beating Ribombee if AI is merciful on you. Its E4 performance is pretty subpar as a whole. I don't mind this dropping to D, but I'd like more opinions on that thing. I can go into more details about the matchups if someone cares enough, but I'd like to move on to the next nominations.
Mimikyu
Many things you should keep in mind before reading further:
- I used the Totem version with a perfect IV in HP, Attack, and Speed.
- I grinded it to level 46 for its first matchup so I could have Play Rough
- I tested Mimikyu multiple times for most matchups
- All in all, I have ensured that I cannot be accused of purposelly misusing or ignoring Mimikyu
I will just post the logs for Mimikyu, since I cannot be bothered to explain them. Not to mention that the logs are concise and have enough details for you to reach your own conclusion:
Guzma(46): Z-Work Up then use Play Rough, which just barely triggers Emergency Exit. Then 2HKO Pinsir with Play Rough, which doesn't deal much with Throat Chop. Masquerain comes in and goes for Icy Wind turn one as you outspeed, while it is either put in red by Play Rough or is outright OHKOed (generally the former) and fails to KO with Air Slash unless it flinches. Golisopod comes back and finishes you off
Nanu(46): Z-Work Up and OHKO Sableye with Play Rough. Krokorok outspeeds you, but Leech Life OHKOs and restores most of the dealt HP. Persian is 2HKOed by Leech Life, but it might be a roll, as it was very close to a 3HKO (high yellow). Z-Dark Pulse won't KO and Leech Life prevents the next Dark Pulse from KOing, but you lose if you get flinched (unless you want to heal with an item).
Guzma(49/50): bad matchup. Golisopod avoids a 2HKO from +2 Play Rough and 2HKOs with Razor Shell once Disguise is broken. You can OHKO it with +2 LSF if you Worked Up twice instead. No matter what you do, though, Vikavolt comes in next and finishes you off, as it lives a +2 Play Rough. And trying to set up and beat the others isn't very feasible.
Kommo-o(55): +1 Z-Play Rough OHKOs.
UN(55): Z-Play Rough + two Play Roughs KO UN
Ribombee(58): Psych Up, Z-Play Rough, then Play Rough to KO.
Hapu(58): Hone Claws twice, OHKO with Shadow Claw, OHKO Mudsdale with Z-Play Rough, and spam Play Rough on the rest for the win. You sweep if Golurk goes for SR at any point.
Molayne(63): I don't think I tried it too much here, but even at +2, you won't be OHKOing most things, so you will get bodied pretty hard
Olivia(63): bad matchup. Even at +2, it will struggle to OHKO anything and they will wear it down slowly
Kahili(63): OHKO Braviary with Z-Play Rough (you are faster). Work Up twice on Mandibuzz (watch out for Flatter) and OHKO with Play Rough. Toucannon comes in, goes for Z-Beak Blast, but you outspeed and OHKO with Play Rough. Hawlucha comes in, fails to KO with Throat Chop, and also dies to Play Rough. Oricorio finishes you off
Hau(63/64): Work Up once on Raichu and OHKO with Shadow Sneak. Tauros 2HKOs with Iron Head, but dies to LSF. Switch out againt Incineroar and heal offscreen. Bring it back to beat Crabominable and Noivern. Leafeon has Charm, so don't bother
in terms of sheer number of matchups, Mimikyu comes pretty close to the amount Bisharp does. However, Mimikyu doesn't really have a huge availability issue (really, the only bad thing is that you have to collect 80 stickers and most of them are pretty obvious anyways). Mimikyu does lack a bit in power, but that is not an issue for most matchups. Its E4 performance could be better, but its Kahili matchup was surprisingly decent and it can take out a majority of Hau's team too.
Therefore, I want to say that I am okay with this staying in B-tier. I am not establishing it there yet, because I want a third test to confirm B-tier. This is because I did favor it quite a bit and I want to make sure that everyone's ok with B-tier placement.
Delphox
Raising Delphox to D-tier. Delphox is surprisingly useful for an end-game Pokemon. Psych Up + Z-Psychic allow it to KO Kommo-o, Psych Up + Sunny Day + Z-Fire Blast beat Ribombee, and it can crush Molayne. It can also crush Hapu with Specs Grass Knot if you want it to. All in all, it's by some percentage better than most end-game Pokemon and I think it'd make sense to push this to D-tier. Open to reverting this, though.
tl;dr
Popplio is remaining A-tier
Delibird and Delphox will be D-tier
Mawile, Kangaskhan, and Mimikyu need an additional test, but Mimikyu in B is fine by me, as a whole.
===
slate time!
Roggenrola (No Trade) E -> D
Clamperl (Gorebyss) E -> D
Clamperl (Huntail) E -> D
Bagon E -> D
Trapinch E -> C
Corsola F -> E
Larvitar E -> D
Absol F -> E
Golett E -> D
Happiny F -> E
Goomy F -> E
Eevee (Glaceon) F -> E
Vanillite F -> D
Krokorok E -> D
Poipole F -> E
Castform F -> E
Snorunt (Froslass) F -> E
Dhelmise D -> E
Clawitzer D -> E
Sableye E -> F
Carvanha E -> F
Wailmer E -> F
Corphish E -> F
Beldum C -> B
Wimpod D -> C
Prinplup B -> C
Roggenrola (No Trade) B -> C
Delibird C -> D
Delphox E -> D
Munchlax - establish in A
Magnemite - establish in A
Popplio - establish in A
Cutiefly - establish in B
Bisharp - establish in C
Growlithe - establish in C
note: Beldum won't be established in B yet, I want first to see if we can reach a consensus on Honedge (again, Honedge is mostly better than Beldum, I cannot have the latter higher than the former).
You know the drill. If you have objections to a nomination, speak up now, as it's more convenient for them to be raised now. This is especially true for the establishments, as those will be treated as consensus following the implementation of the slate.
I am thinking of retesting the Totem Salazzle and Gardevoir, along with testing Leafeon and more leftovers from mega slate / early drafts. May change teams if something comes up, though.
e: apologies for creating the slate late, I wanted to use my powers as a dictator to slip in my nomination >:)
e2: results are coming in tomorrow, I will make a separate post to indicate that.
slate was applied to the list, so ranks should be updated. Let me know if I got anything wrong.
As you will notice, I have put a timer on the Box Legends, as I mentioned in a previous post. However, I also put Ekans and Grimer on timer. Grimer seems to be a consensus when it comes to whenever it's overrated or not (spoiler: yes, it is). I am gonna use it in my next run just to have a more modern perspective of its performance.
Ekans was put on a timer (even though I am the only person on the thread that's ever used it) because I am pretty content with it remaining in C-tier. It's a great support Pokemon that can cripple pretty much every Totem, but I am pretty sure that Ribombee is the only one that it can beat on its own and it tends to be eh in Kahuna fights and similar (though I think mine managed to sweep Kahili with Coil + Gunk Shot). If you think it should be any other tier, speak up and I can remove the timer (though if my results were to be taken as 100% accurate, it will come down a lot to policy moreso than actual performance), otherwise, I am establishing it in C-tier at some point.
My current run consists of Buneary / Leafeon / Gardevoir / Pinsir / Totem Salazzle / Greninja. Leafeon and Greninja are to confirm their ranks and the rest are retests for more modern perspective. Once I am done, I will do my run with Grimer and possibly retest a few more things that I want some more modern perspective on.
Ok, I'm done with another run.
Chose Rowlet, dropped. This makes Hau pick Popplio for easier matchups with my Magnemite.
My team only chocked a bit mid-game at the electric trial with Togemaru.
I used the following:
• Magnezone, Timid, Sturdy
• Muk, Impish, Poison Touch
• Crobat, Adamant
• Wishiwashi, Neutral
• Bewear, Adamant, Fluffy
• Golisopod, Relaxed
Magnemite:
Not much to add about Magnemite other than the fact that it carries. It's just takes the pressure of a lot of the other members of the team. Steel wrecks fairy. This has probably been discussed enough. In my opinion this is one is still an S.
Muk:
Probably the best typing pair of the game. I never really met ground attacks and if I did they didn't do all that. Muk covers a lof of bases and does a lot of work. Decent general wall. I think it's fine but it's not insane. S would be too high. Strong A.
Crobat:
Initially, I was impressed with the really quick level 23 Crobat just one level after evolving into Golbat because of the early Soothe Bell. The BST for its Exp. Group is respectable too. The problem is however that even though some matchups are favorable Crobat just isn't all that. It lacks the punch and it falters off quickly, and picking Crobat for your team just because of Haze isn't really worth it either. The more I used this pokémon the more disillusioned I became. I'd rather use my time on something else. Not terrible, but nothing to be amazed by either. B.
Wishiwashi:
Game on easy-mode with this one. Still S for me. I have mentioned this before but: great stats because of Schooling compared to how quickly it levels up because of Exp. Group. Can be built many different ways. Might boil down to personal style.
Bewear:
This one's funny. With Fluffy you can tank some insane stuff while you laugh at your opponent. It's a very efficient user of Quick Claw. I taught it Ice Punch for basic coverage. Offensively better than Muk. Defensively worse. Holds its own. A.
Golisopod:
It's actually very easy to catch Wimpod if you know where it is and just save the game before. No need to search for it. You can also just reset the game if you care about nature for your in-game run. Leech Life is readily available and might serve as a countermeasure to premature Emergency Exit activations. I was very impressed with its performance. Typing is decent too. When it evolves it really pulls its own weight easily. B, might even be A imo, unless someone else has a good argument for B instead.
I would like to nominate Archen/Archeops for a shift from D-Tier to C-Tier.
I used an Archen/Archeops in my second playthrough of Ultra Sun and found that it usually ended up being the backbone of the team. Though it is basically a glass cannon, I found it to be quite powerful in nearly every trainer battle, despite evolving late. I believe I ran Acrobatics, U-Turn, Crunch, and Rock Slide by the end-game, and also without an item.
Though I agree that such a high evolution level is a significant downside to it, that is about the only downside I can see.
Yes, I know, Archen/Archeops have Defeatist, but it hardly ever triggered throughout the whole playthrough because any attack that could get my fossil birb to such low HP would kill it, not leave it there. It also usually proved so fast that it would KO before my opponent could get a move off. I don't distinctly remember how well it did against the major game bosses, though I do generally remember it doing well, and dealing...heh...MASSIVE DAMAGE to Ultra Necrozma. Thus, I would like Archen/Archeops to be considered for an upward tier shift.
I would like to nominate Archen/Archeops for a shift from D-Tier to C-Tier.
I used an Archen/Archeops in my second playthrough of Ultra Sun and found that it usually ended up being the backbone of the team. Though it is basically a glass cannon, I found it to be quite powerful in nearly every trainer battle, despite evolving late. I believe I ran Acrobatics, U-Turn, Crunch, and Rock Slide by the end-game, and also without an item.
Though I agree that such a high evolution level is a significant downside to it, that is about the only downside I can see.
Yes, I know, Archen/Archeops have Defeatist, but it hardly ever triggered throughout the whole playthrough because any attack that could get my fossil birb to such low HP would kill it, not leave it there. It also usually proved so fast that it would KO before my opponent could get a move off. I don't distinctly remember how well it did against the major game bosses, though I do generally remember it doing well, and dealing...heh...MASSIVE DAMAGE to Ultra Necrozma. Thus, I would like Archen/Archeops to be considered for an upward tier shift.
I used Archeops ages ago in one of these games (forget if it was vanilla or USUM) and I thought it was…okay? Maybe it can be C, but not sure.
My issue with Archen is that much like those other fossils it comes at level 15 when your team is at like level 25. Even disregarding that, to my memory USUM in particular isn’t favorable to it. Bosses in this game punish glass cannons pretty hard unless they have say…an early Flynium Z. And that’s the last thing you wanna use off Acrobatics. So that leaves Rock Slide (yes I know you have Rock Tomb but…bleh) which is considerably later for a Z-move. Already not a great look, though at least you get the Rock Z move upgrade with Rock Slide around the same time as evolution.
I don’t see it doing much for Togedemaru though maybe it can get one good hit off on Mimikyu. Guzma I see is pretty okay but aside from that I think the remaining totems would outmuscle it. I also dunno how you did good damage to Ultra Necrozma given how overtuned that thing is.
Even in its debut games, it struggled with the Elite Four as Archeops’s Arobatics wanes in power the closer to endgame you get as foes gain more bulk. Not only that but two E4 members have natural advantages over it.
This isn’t to say Archen can’t rise to C. I might have to refresh my experience with it. I just see a lot of hurdles with it, though this is a fine nomination all things considered! Thanks for posting about it.
Not much to add about Magnemite other than the fact that it carries. It's just takes the pressure of a lot of the other members of the team. Steel wrecks fairy. This has probably been discussed enough. In my opinion this is one is still an S.
I understand this, but I am still gonna keep it in A-tier, since that's the consensus and one that I agree with. It's really good, just that the earlier boss matchup are bad for it and it's not exactly flawless after evolving to make up for that either. Unless more people want to come to its defense (preferably with logs), I am gonna keep it in A-tier.
Muk:
Probably the best typing pair of the game. I never really met ground attacks and if I did they didn't do all that. Muk covers a lof of bases and does a lot of work. Decent general wall. I think it's fine but it's not insane. S would be too high. Strong A.
I'd like more details about Grimer's performance against the major opponents (which ultimately are what is used the most when ranking something), because my experience tells me that Grimer is lacking in those a lot. This also seems to match with other people's experiences. I am not saying yours is invalid, I just want more details to better understand this (and any other) nomination to A. I will remove the timer, though.
Dropping Zubat to B on the next slate. Someone else brought up concerns about Zubat (albeit in an unifinished run) in the beginning of the thread. I personally remember having very good experience with Zubat, but B is something I can live with. I am not sure if I would put Grimer higher than Zubat (them being the same tier is okay, though), but this is something we can deal with if it becomes an issue.
Not establishing it in B-tier just yet, I'd like someone else to confirm B-tier. I may try contacting that user and see if they want to finish their run. I am wondering if Murkrow could drop to C, since it's a worse Zubat in essence (worse since you are stuck as a Murkrow for the first three Islands)
As I said in a previous post, Wishiwashi to S is something I can see, but I would like to ask someone else to test it first. Once I free up some space in the Hot topics (I may remove Mime Jr. and Steenee from there if I need more space), I will put Wishiwashi in there as well. If someone else tests it and says S-tier, I will then test it myself and say if I am fine with S or not.
Raising Stufful to A. A-tier is fine by me, given I literally suggested it as a possible tier. I had some concerns about the number of good matchups, but on the other hand, Bewear autowins most, if not all, its good matchups and seems to be fairly usable even against opponents like Kahili simply due to how stupidly broken Fluffy is.
Like Zubat, I'd like someone to test Stufful once more to establish A-tier. If there's more support, I am happy to establish it in there.
Establishing Wimpod in C-tier. I am not raising it any higher than C-tier, as I have first-hand experience of its good amount of flaws. Remember that Wimpod is useless till it evolves into Golisopod and doesn't have many good matchups. The only reason I even put it from D to C on first place was because I realized I didn't take the Ultra Necrozma matchup into account properly. It's an awesome route killer, I can tell you that from experience, but ultimately, the list cares the most about major opponents matchups and Golisopod simply lacks those for a higher tier.
1) it comes pretty underleveled. As Drums, you are (at worst, if I have to add) level 25 by the time you beat Lurantis (assuming you don't go the Poke Pelago route, which I banned anyways), so it will take it some time to catch up with your team.
2) Defeatist is way worse than you may think. Alola is naturally a lot bulkier than other games (all Totems are pretty much EVed in bulk) and Archeops relies on OHKOing them, cause if it doesn't, they will simply 2HKO it and trigger Defeatist.
3) As Drums has described, it's got quite a lot of issues in its major battle performance. You hit Guzma and Kahili, for most parts. Kommo-o is a win only if you outspeed (I was outsped by, like, three points, I think). Ribombee can be won, but you rely on it not attacking you turn one and triggering Defeatist. The other matchups tend to be bad because Archeops is at a type disadvantage, though I am probably missing a few more acceptable matchups, as I am going off memory
with that said, I am not going to outright reject the nomination, but I would like someone else to come up with more arguments as to why Archen deserves C-tier. Best way for this would be with a test, if anyone is feeling up to it. If not, it's staying in D-tier.
===
All of the rank changes and establishments will happen in a next slate. Slates are created per amount of nominations, so if you guys want to see it happening sooner, please provide more nominations and I will see which ones I am willing to apply. I will also try finishing my run soon and post results with it and then start the Grimer one to get a better perspective of it.
Dropping Zubat to B on the next slate. Someone else brought up concerns about Zubat (albeit in an unifinished run) in the beginning of the thread. I personally remember having very good experience with Zubat, but B is something I can live with. I am not sure if I would put Grimer higher than Zubat (them being the same tier is okay, though), but this is something we can deal with if it becomes an issue.
Not establishing it in B-tier just yet, I'd like someone else to confirm B-tier. I may try contacting that user and see if they want to finish their run. I am wondering if Murkrow could drop to C, since it's a worse Zubat in essence (worse since you are stuck as a Murkrow for the first three Islands)
I'm going to attempt a run consisting of Litten, Grubbin, Mime Jr., Psyduck, Steenee and Stufful. It shouldn't be too bad considering the type variety. I'll update you all after every island.
OK so as an update to my run, I just got past Ultra Necrozma, but I am posting for a different reason. I decided to inspect what Pokemon learned Endeavor through relearner (since I kind of needed it to get past it in my run). To my surprise, I found out that a lot of Pokemon learned Endeavor through the relearner. And some of these are Pokemon that I tiered without taking it into account, which means that I have committed negligience when tiering some of them.
For reference, here's the list of Pokemon that we are tiering that learn it by tutor (Island Scan Pokemon are specially labeled):
as you can see, quite a lot. Some of the Pokemon that have been brought up recently or are considered high priority include Litten, Wishiwashi, Steene, and Archen. Given how many Pokemon learn Endeavor, this means that beating Ultra Necrozma this way (+ Sash) is going to be considered less valuable than, say, beating it with Counter / Mirror Coat / one-two Roto Boosts (not to mention that it's preferred for the Pokemon to actually kill Ultra Necrozma). HOWEVER, it will still be ranked favorably for a Pokemon (as long as Endeavor doesn't introduce some other problem) and it will be valued even more if the Pokemon can put Endeavor to a use to beat something else, like Kommo-o or Ribombee. In general, I recommend using Endeavor in your nominations only to justify a rank that a Pokemon is very close to, but you feel like cannot reach without Endeavor.
with that said, I will do that myself and the following changes will occur on the next slate:
Passimian establish to B - nominated by another user to B via a casual run, I agree with B-tier and Endeavor solidifies the rank, in my opinion
Kangaskhan establish to C - with that niche, I think it's fair to leave it in C, although I was ready to drop it to D-tier
Axew establish to C - reasonably good for the E4, I think the new Endeavor addition helps cement C-tier.
the Pokemon above are ones where I believe are very close to the tiers they currently are and therefore Endeavor helps cement those. Anything else for now won't change tiers, but I am more open to pushing some things to a higher tier, like Archen and Steenee, as long as more support is raised for those. Things like Flabebe and Beedrill won't necessarily be higher than F-tier, as they they seem to be/are useless for most parts anyways and bringing them around for that doesn't amount to efficiency. Likewise, I am not planning on moving Corphish to E-tier due to Endeavor, as I still think it's terrible and that you have little reason to actually pick that over... anything.
I apologize for this. I wish I had caught that earlier so I could account for Endeavor's (reduced) value better. I don't think anything currently is ranked solely off Endeavor, so fortunately, we won't have to drop anything for now. For now, though, please consider Endeavor only in moderation. Again, use it mostly to cement a tier, rather than to boost a tier.
Also, I want to apologize for my slight inactivity with my runs as well. I had to deal with uni applications and helping the GSC list kickstart and helping the HGSS list conclude. With those out of my way, though, I should be able to pay more attention to this list than the past few days.
e: just to make it clear, the reason why I want Endeavor to be considered less valuable is because I consider making UN significantly easier to be a huge positive that amounts to a general positive matchup, as many Pokemon struggle with it. With Endeavor being learned by many, though, there's some competition for an Endeavorer, so that's why I am asking for Endeavor to be considered less.
e2: this is not targetted towards anyone in particular, in fact, I don't think anyone ever used Endeavor to justify a tier. I am making this post just in case, though.
Litten can learn double kick at level 16, making short work of the normal trial, and with almost no pokemon that resist fire it demolishes the first island apart from a few hiccups which Grubbin can defeat.
Grubbin learns Mud Slap and Bug Bite, so it can stall out pokemon, but that's it. (Teacher beat with a level 8 Grubbin using mud shot, vice grip and 2 potions.) (Ilima's Smeargle beat with a level 10 Grubbin using mud shot, bite and 2 potions.)
Mime Jr. In order to become useable it has to evolve. But the Kahuna was a clean sweep. 4x resistance to fighting.
The main problem is that Mime Jr. only has Confusion, while Litten has Fire Fang/Double Kick and Grubbin has Bug Bite/Bite. I mean you can consider Copycat but everyone else has a secondary move in case things go south. Mr. Mime only learns normal and psychic moves via level up that do damage, so you're gonna need TM's.
Fling at Hau'Oli Cemetery and Hidden Power at Paniola Ranch are the only early game tms. Hidden Power is very luckbased on what type you get and in order to Fling to have some decent power you're gonna have to go hunt or fork over a lot of cash over the long run. You also have brickbreak but the attack stats are extremely bad.
Mime Jr. only has the one use, and for now I don't see it having any others.
Also I would like to make a case for Litten. Litten is the best starter hands down.
Rowlet: Immune to fighting but the immunity is useless by the time you get it in USUM (Hala is E4 in SM) and ghost type isn't super effective against fairy. It does have the signature move that won't let people run away, which is great for set-ups.
Popplio: Ghost isn't super effective against fairy but fairy isn't super effective against incineroar. The signature move is a water type not fairy, but doesn't have any special powers, it's just slightly stronger. Immune to Dragon which is useful for the one trial.
Litten: Fairy is just effective against litten and the signature move ignores stat boosts. Immune to Psychic which is worse than an Immunity to Dragon but It's still an immunity.
I'd advise against comparing your Mme Jr. to your teammates (or any Pokemon to other teammates in general), saying that in response to "The main problem is that Mime Jr. only has Confusion, while Litten has Fire Fang/Double Kick and Grubbin has Bug Bite/Bite." Litten and Grubbin are currently A-tier, potential candidates for B (based on concerns raised in the past), wheres Mime Jr. is a candidate for C-tier at best, so yeah, it's expected for it to look worse. Comparing risks distorting your views on it, which is something I want to avoid, I'd rather know what you think of it in a vacuum than how worse it is than a bunch of high tiers.
(with that said, though, it certainly isn't that great early on, other than the Hala matchup, so you are correct here)
for the starters, I don't really care that much which one is the best, since that won't be influecing their tiers in any way (for example, I am not automatically putting the best one in A and the worst one in C). With that said, I am not sure why you labeled Araquanid as a non-weakness for Litten, that thing has Water Bubble and fights you in permanent rain, it would surely count as a huge weakness. Personally, I'd avoid theorymonning strengths and weaknesses here, because it's common for a Pokemon to theoritically have a type advantage over a boss fight, but in reality to be bad for it. For example, Smoochum has a type advantage against Lurantis, but that Lurantis can nuke it with Solar Blade and the end reuslt is Smoochum has lost. The best way to know whenever something is good is to use it on boss fights and seeing if it wins there (which I think you are doing anyways, since you are mentioning the harder NPCs), so not gonna comment too much on those matchup tables.
Speaking of the NPCs, note that we are tiering only off Totems, Kahunas, Guzma, Ultra Necrozma, the E4, and the final Hau fight, so opponents like Plumeria and Trial Captains shouldn't be part of the final ranking.
Hopefully this didn't come off as harsh or anything, I just wanted to provide a few guidelines to get a better idea of how tiering is done. I am curious to see your next results as well; Melemele has only two boss fights which we are tiering so it's very likely you may experience a drastic change of view for some of your Pokemon.
Buneary
Honestly, this felt even worse than the last time I used it. It couldn't beat boss fights like Araquanid that I witnessed it beating in the past. It felt somewhat eh in terms of power, though it was the mon I used to get past Ultra Necrozma, for most parts, thanks to Endeavor. It did beat Lurantis, albeit barely, and sweep Olivia #1. It can also beat Togedemaru and Ribombee, but are either prediction-reliant or luck-reliant (Ribombee requires you paralyze with Bounce to win). All in all, I feel like this could be D-tier. I won't move this anywhere yet, but if someone is interested in testing it, feel free to test for C vs D. I may timer it at some point for D-tier. Not to mention that evolving it isn't pleasant either with that sweet zero base friendship.
Leafeon
Honestly, I could maybe see C-tier on this thing. It performed well for a Grass-type, certainly outperforming garbage like Steenee and Fomantis. I managed to beat Lurantis with it (+2 Z-Last Resort OHKOs, watch out for Screech only), swept Olivia #1 as long as she didn't flinch you, OHKOed Mimikyu with +2 Z-Iron Tail after getting some support (break Disguise and kill Banette), was okay for Nanu, and is capable of sweeping Olivia #2 with healing. All in all, I can definitely see C-tier (but not anything higher), but I'd like someone else to raise support for that, otherwise, I am keeping this in D-tier.
Gardevoir
Felt worse than last time. Its E4 performance is still shaky; you have TBolt for Kahili (don't expect it to sweep) and your best tool for Molayne/Olivia is the inaccurate Focus Blast. Sweeping Hau is possible, but you basically rely on rolls, as Tauros can kill you even after you DKiss spam Raichu. You also need to heal against his Eeveelution to avoid Quick Attack KO. Outside of the E4, Gardevoir was good for Nanu, Kommo-o, and Ribombee, though it was hilariously bad for Hapu even with Specs Energy Ball.
I can defintely see this dropping to C-tier, given the Ralts period and the Slow growth rate. If Ceal finishes his run and says C, I am moving it there. I may also move it there unilaterlaly if the run is never finished
Pinsir
looks like C-tier was correct for it. It's kind of bad before Nanu (Togedemaru can be won but is heavily prediction-reliant), but you take out his Sableye and Krokorok, then crush Ribombee with Z-Stone Edge after SD and performs well against Molayne and Olivia. I will timer it in case someone thinks this should be lower (not higher).
Totem Salazzle
Dropping this to B-tier. It was amazing when I first used it, but now, it has little-to-no difference to normal Salazzle. Some boss fights were losses for it even though I remembered them as victories (Mimikyu, particularly). Basically, normal Salazzle does the same, but also has the Lurantis matchup as a Salandit, though this one not forcing you to hunt for a female Salandit is certainly nice.
Greninja
Pushing it to D-tier. Greninja is incredibly useful thanks to natural Substitute, sweeping both Molayne and Olivia. It is good for Khaili with Ice Beam, not gonna sweep, but can take out at least 3/5 of her team. I guess it will also be good for Acerola, but never tried it there. Basically, it's a lot more usable than the rest of the other Poni Pokemon, so will move this to D-tier.
tl;dr
Pinsir will be put on a timer
Totem Salazzle will drop to B
Greninja will rise to D.
Ralts and Buneary may be timered in the future (timer to C and D, respectively) unless someone disagrees with those ranks.
on a slight note, I have more Pokemon that I will put on timers:
Surskit (C-tier)
Mawile (C-tier)
I rechecked Mawile's performance and feel like this will be good in C-tier. Surskit has some good matchups and has Intimidate utility. You can check out my post with Masquerain here. Those two I don't feel like many will bother testing anyways, so might as well give them some spotlight.
Speaking of which, I want to announce that I kind of want to start moving closer and closer to the write-ups phase, so I may start establishing some things in their tiers prematurely. This is mostly to speed up things, I know that having everything tested is unrealistic, so I want you guys to focus on the shakier cases like Salandit and the other two starters, while I reevaluate some of the more niche Pokemon.
I would like to receive a few more nominations before I create another slate.
e: next team is Pikipek / Wingull / Grimer / Scatterbug / Beedrill / Larvesta. Larvesta and Beedrill are to confirm tiers, rest are retests.
e2: correction on the tl;dr timers
- Rowlet, Spearow, Pikipek, or Wingull.
- Makuhita
- Zorua
- Lillipup
- Wishiwashi
- Cubone or, if playing Ultra Sun, the Totem Marowak (40th sticker is on Route 8). If using any of those, please take Thick Club from the boss Totem with Thief.
above are only ideas, feel free to change up your team with something else you want to test if you feel that your team isn't good enough. The Flying Pokemon can take out some of the opponents like Guzma, Hala, Araquanid, and Lurantis (note that Rowlet loses Flying upon becoming Decidueye), Zorua provides Ultra Necrozma answer. Stoutland is generally nice and I kind of want a new test on it. Also, Intimidate can help you against Mimikyu and Kommo-o, which the team above would struggle against. Wishiwashi and Cubone are both strong and I'd like some tests on those as well. Makuhita provides answers to Normal Trial, but you can probably use it as a backup for other matchups.
If you have any questions or need help with tiering, feel free to let me know and I can guide you through whatever your issue is (and the same applies to everyone else, of course).
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