Pokemon RBY In-game Tiers

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Bulbasaur is somewhat useful but he's outclassed by Bellsprout and Oddish now. Charmander might be ok if you fed some of Route 24's EXP to him, and you don't get another Fire-type until Celadon (although its not exactly vital for one until then)
Squirtle is hopeless imo, comes way too underlevelled, just use Lapras or Vaporeon.
 
If Omaster knew Rock Slide and Earthquake in this game he'd be so awesome.

Bulbasaur is somewhat useful but he's outclassed by Bellsprout and Oddish now. Charmander might be ok if you fed some of Route 24's EXP to him, and you don't get another Fire-type until Celadon (although its not exactly vital for one until then)
Squirtle is hopeless imo, comes way too underlevelled, just use Lapras or Vaporeon.
Well one advantage Bulbausaur has is that he gets the awesome Razor Leaf as a Level 30 Ivysaur, where as Weepinbell has to wait til Level 38 to get it.

My main problem with Bulbasaur in Yelllow is that I had to give him the Magikarp/Abra/Caterpie baby treatment until Level 13 where he got Vine Whip.

Squirtle is okay in Yellow. He can grind against the Onix/Geodude, but if you already have a Grass type, then the only thing Squirtle will have an advantage over that your Grass type doesn't is the Fire Pokemon. However Fire isn't that omnipresent until much later at the 7th Gym.
 
Omastar doesn't need SlideQuake imo, STAB Surf/Ice Beam will hit harder anyway most of the time due to higher Spc.

Bulbasaur also doesn't get Calm Mind Growth to raise the power of Vine Whip...

For Squirtle you CAN grind him against Onix/Geodude, but he doesn't provide any immediate returns (instead herpderp Erika), unlike Omanyte who can grind in Pokemon Mansion (and pretty safely too imo, he resists Rattata's stuff) and then demolish Blaine. Squirtle is mediocre for a lot of the game, and he comes really underlevelled, with your party being ~10-15 levels above him. Honestly, the highest he goes imo is Mid Tier.

also what Tentacool is mid what why D:
 
Omastar doesn't need SlideQuake imo, STAB Surf/Ice Beam will hit harder anyway most of the time due to higher Spc.
I know, but Rock Slide would help against Loreli, and Earthquake would hurt Agatha. Still, Omaster is a solid Pokemon to use.

Bulbasaur also doesn't get Calm Mind Growth to raise the power of Vine Whip...
I thought he did? I'd rather use Razor leaf anyway.

For Squirtle you CAN grind him against Onix/Geodude, but he doesn't provide any immediate returns (instead herpderp Erika), unlike Omanyte who can grind in Pokemon Mansion (and pretty safely too imo, he resists Rattata's stuff) and then demolish Blaine. Squirtle is mediocre for a lot of the game, and he comes really underlevelled, with your party being ~10-15 levels above him. Honestly, the highest he goes imo is Mid Tier.
Agreed
 
All you need to do to get Omanyte is to beat Koga, this unlocks Surf outside of battle. The fact that Surf is needed to get Omanyte actually works in his favour imo since firstly, its stated that your surf slave could very well be some random L10 Goldeen scrub, and secondly, Omanyte actually has a good enough special (wtf its higher than Blastoise) to use it.

Omanyte benefits a lot more than Kabuto though, who lacks the special needed to Surf his way through Pokemon Mansion.

He isn't top tier material, that I'll concede, but he does have the tools needed to be high tier. The fact that its possible to get him before Erika isn't exactly significant imo since either Erika will kill all the Seafoam scrubs anyway, or they'll be so overlevelled due to Blaine/Pokemon Mansion that they wtfpwn her instead. idk for sabrina though
Yeah yeah I know. I'm not questioning the method, I'm just saying that it's not the way I (and I assume most people) play the game. But it's unquestionably legit for tiering discussion.

Yellow starters are a lot worse, yeah. As someone who usually raises all of them, I can safely say that Squirtle grinding in Diglett's cave is a big pain. Those niglets are so fast, so likely to crit, you can't just run away from them (I know they don't have Arena Trap, I'm not stupid), and Dugtrio is even scarier. Now Squirtle can take the Bubblebeam TM and nearly OHKO Digletts iirc, so after a while he should be fine, but the start is annoying.

Grinding a L10 Squirtle in Rock Tunnel is kind of a joke imo. You'll be running into Zubats and Machops a lot when all you want to face (at least at first) are the Rock types.

Bulbasaur and especially Charmander are better off, but Bulbasaur is a Grass-type that doesn't even get Sleep Powder early (I don't think Growth really matters). Charmander can learn Dig I guess.
 
I'm a big fan of Oddish, Bellsprout, and Bulbasaur, but the latter is usually my favourite to use. I like Razor Leaf at Level 30 (also prefer guaranteed critical hit Razor Leaf over Growth+Vine Whip), and final evolution at Level 32. Where as with the other two I usually have to stick with Weepinbell / Gloom until I get Razor Leaf/Petal Dance.

The main problem I have with Bulbasaur in Yellow is that how great he is in the beginning, he starts to fall behind in the latter game. As good as he is against earlier gym leaders such as Misty and Surge, he's gonna be sitting out against Sabrina and Blaine.

He makes somewhat of a comeback at the end. He can take Dugtrio and Rhydon of Giovanni. He can hit Lorelei with Razor Leaf, but doesn't like taking STAB Ice moves. He can sweep Bruno, but IMO Bruno is the easiest of the Elite 4. In theory he should lose to Agatha*, and the only one of Lance's team he can fight is Gyarados. Against Gary he can fight Sandslash and Cloyster.

*Agatha should wall Venusaur due to typing and stats, but from personal experience...all she did is keep switching out so I actually managed to beat her. Lame.
 
From what I know, Venusaur is best used to abuse Leech Seed + Toxic. It's bugged in Gen 1 such that Toxic and Leech Seed share the same counter for some reason. LS is notable in that only Venusaur and lolexeggutor gets it, so its a pretty cool niche for him. LS also restores the full amount of HP so if its supposed to deal say a metric fuckton of damage but the opponent only has like ~1 HP left, it will still heal you a metric fuckton.

also im totally not going to mention how i actually solo'd Yellow!Sabrina/Blaine with Venusaur. because leech seed/toxic is seriously that awesome. and gay.
 
I'm amazed by bias towards Bulbasaur and against Squirtle...
Training Squirtle in Diglett Cave is piece of cake - murder 15-18 with Bubblebeam, switch to something with high def on 19+ and KO/Run. After evolving, just kill everything until you're satisfied with his lv.
Bublasaur has no chance against Digletts (even Dig-less ones, dohohoh) until he evolves*.
Both can take Dig or two soon after evolving.
Bulbasaur family has one good attack - Razor Leaf (acc 95, learned on lv 30). Maybe Body Slam from TM later. Leech Seed/Toxic isn't the most time-efficient strategy in-game when you can use things that outright KO opponent in one turn. Squirtle has Bubblebeam since lv 10, Surf and Blizzard later on. Not to mention that Grass type is horrible attacking type (too many Poisons and Flying) while Water is good.
*His best weapon, Vine Whip has only 35 bp, so he can't one-shot Digletts with his super-effective STAB which also means he's twice more likely to get hit with (crit) Scratch. Vine Whip has also miserable 10 PP, so you have to play with Leech Seed + Growl + Tackle (long fights) or run to Poke Center every few battles.
Yes, I tested this several times.

@Mekkah**, Machops are slow, so you can Run form them. Zubat isn't capable of doing serious damage even when it's higher level (Leech Life...? maybe with crit Bite he can 3hko 10lv Squirtle), so there's no problem if you can't get away safely on first try. They usually miss with Supersonic on their first turn after all.
 
bulbasaur doesn't need to train against digletts because he has misty/surge to work on
also vine whip may have bad bp but digletts aren't even that bulky, he ohkos them from what i remember
you can also just use tackle since that 2-3hkos anyway
yup water is good lategame but lategame omanyte > blastoise anyway, imagine you finally evolve your blastoise than oma pops in and go "hi blastoise, i have more SpA than you and i have rock typing so i can actually grind against shit in pokemon mansion and rape ppl"

(and note that im not even pro-bulba to begin with imo bellsprout > bulbasaur)
 
No, Vine Whip doesn't ohko Digletts early on. As Ivysaur, yes but it's 6 lvs later.
No, Tackle isn't simple KO in 2-3 turns. Diglett starts Growling? it's 3-5 turns. Diglett starts Scratching? You die after 1-4 fights, depending on lv and crits. Even switching out becomes faster method. Cut isn't much better.

Water is good always, not just lategame - 65bp 100acc move after 2nd Gym. Only Water and Grass resist it but first can't do much in return outside of Supersonic while you have Fire and Flying for latter. Dragons are nonexistent.

No, Omanyte has less Special because StatExp. I don't get how having Rock typing is so good. You still get poisoned by Smog/Sludge. You win vs Fire either way. Blastoise has enough Defense to take Normal type attacks pretty safely.
 
Bulbasaur should be an Invysaur by the time you get to Diglett's Cave anyway. Seeing as you have Nugget Bridge, all of Cerelean's trainers, than Misty, then those trainers on the way to Vermillion.
 
You need happy Pikachu to get Bulbasaur and quite often the yellow rodent won't be in love with you when you get to Cerulean...
 
You need happy Pikachu to get Bulbasaur and quite often the yellow rodent won't be in love with you when you get to Cerulean...
Then you just give it a bunch of Potions while it's at full health. They won't do anything, and won't be used up, but they will make Pikachu happier.
 
Then you just give it a bunch of Potions while it's at full health. They won't do anything, and won't be used up, but they will make Pikachu happier.
Isn't that not really well known glitch? Just checked it, bulba confirms but none of my friends knew about it.
 
I don't think Mekkeh is factoring in Glitches here.

My Pikachu is fairly happen with me when I get there anyway. That's probably because I solo the game with Pikachu up until that point though.
 
Since we're talking about the usefulness of certain Pokemon in Yellow, I thought "How about I play through Yellow using some of the Pokemon they're talking about so I could give my opinions on them?" I'll be using Pikachu, Mankey, and Bulbasaur for sure, and you guys could suggest ones for me to try out*. As mentioned above, I'll give my individual opinions on how each of them was after I'm done.

Current team: Pikachu, Mankey, Bulbasaur, Ponyta (via suggestion)

*Note: If they've already been playtested and aren't too different in Yellow than in Red/Blue, I probably won't use them.

Another thing, the Pokemon you suggest doesn't/don't have to necessarily be different in Yellow than in RB.
 

Chou Toshio

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pikachu getting happy by non-used potions is not a glitch... >____>

Also I don't know what's up with your friends, but my friends all knew about it (in middle school). BTW, "my friends don't know it" holds like zero water...
 
Since we're talking about the usefulness of certain Pokemon in Yellow, I thought "How about I play through Yellow using some of the Pokemon they're talking about so I could give my opinions on them?" I'll be using Pikachu, Mankey, and Bulbasaur for sure, and you guys could suggest ones for me to try out*. As mentioned above, I'll give my individual opinions on how each of them was after I'm done.

*Note: If they've already been playtested and aren't too different in Yellow than in Red/Blue, I probably won't use them.
I called Aerodactyl.

I recommend Ponyta. In R&B its at Cinnabar Island, where as in Yellow its at Bicycle Road. You can actually use it against Erika if you want.
 
Alright, so I have been playing through Pokemon Yellow for the last few days so that I can see how well Charmander and Squirtle fair in that game. I haven't beaten it yet, but I just defeated Giovanni for the last (and most disappointing) time. So, here's what I've got. (Keep in mind, I've also been using a Pikachu, a Nidoqueen, and a Snorlax. Probably should've been using at least one fewer.)

Yellow Charmander

By the time I got the Lv 10 Charmander, my Pikachu and Nidoqueen were both around Level 20 (give or take a couple of levels). I probably babied the Charmander a little bit, feeding it roasted Oddish and Venonat and switching him in and out. However, I ended up with a Charmeleon one battle before I reached Bill's house. Ember was okay for picking off the plants and bugs he faced along the way, but Charmeleon's greater weapon was Dig, allowing me to knock down the Fire, Poison, and Electric Pokemon that stood before us. He could have 2HKOd Surge's Raichu with Dig (would that be a 4HKO technically if the move takes two turns to use? :/ ), but he missed one of those attacks and then later ate a critical Mega Kick.

Thanks to the Celadon Gym and Pokemon Tower, Charmeleon gained a ton of experience pretty damn fast, and I had a Charizard after beating Jessie & James at Pokemon Tower. Dig has since been really good for the foes I mentioned before, but Slash has actually been impressive, too. Ember was looking pathetic by comparison. He managed to take down Koga's Venonats using Fly, but his Venomoth was a bastard and slayed Charizard (as well as everyone else besides Wartortle, who was lucky enough to end that psychotic moth who was barely hanging on).

After that, against most regular trainers, Slash and Dig (with occasional flight) managed to get Charizard past most foes he fought. For a long time, he was the highest-level Pokemon on my team by the end of the mid-game. Even Water-types aren't really scary with Slash. I've been liking him quite a bit, though I have seen times when he's a little shaky, like when Giovanni's Nidoking fried him with Thunder. I'm thinking around High-tier for Yellow Charmander. I guess the ultimate point is that in both cases (RB or Yellow), Charmander arrives at a point where he can level up fast and has enough at his disposal to shred a lot of the game. The version doesn't seem to matter much here.

Yellow Squirtle

Squirtle also comes at Level 10 when the wild Pokemon around Vermilion are Levels 15-18 or so, as well as when my three other monsters (Pikachu, Nidoqueen, and Charmeleon) were Levels 25-27. My first thought (besides forcing that Bubblebeam TM down her shell because Bubble blows) was to train in Diglett's Cave. First Diglett was at Level 19 and knocked out Squirtle. Yeah... So, I decided to grind her against the other half of the trainers I didn't already beat before the S.S. Anne. The only Pokemon that Squirtle beat on her own was a Gambler's Vulpix. For the others, I switched her around. And she wasn't even a Wartortle by the end of Route 11. She did gain a little more experience on Route 9, however, since that route had more Hikers and did evolve then.

Since then, I used Wartortle rather conservatively, mainly saving her for combat against opponents I knew would have Ground Pokemon. She did see some use in Celadon Gym, but that was only because I taught her Ice Beam. She would also pop out to fight trainers with birds sometimes, but I also had Pikachu with Thunderbolt and Nidoqueen with Rock Slide, so that wasn't really a big deal. Until I beat Koga and Sabrina, Blastoise was pretty much my lowest-level Pokemon. She did, however, warrant a lot more usage with the last two Gyms. Maybe Blastoise could've been more useful if I taught Earthquake to her instead of Nidoqueen.

So, in short, Water Pokemon don't seem to be that useful in the middle of the adventure. Blastoise was great against certain foes but not that strong against others. Maybe she would've worked better with some better attacks (or without Nidoqueen around), but Blastoise was so-so. I'd support Mid-tier for Yellow Squirtle. Not much higher but no lower either.
 
pikachu getting happy by non-used potions is not a glitch... >____>

Also I don't know what's up with your friends, but my friends all knew about it (in middle school). BTW, "my friends don't know it" holds like zero water...
It makes absolutely no sense though. Don't even start with "but that's a game!".

I played Yellow when I was... 10? 11? (and few more times some years later)

Yeah, whether people know about something holds absolutely no value for statement about glitch being known or not. Are you even trying? Also, it wasn't point of my post. I just included it to add some credibility to my statement or at least provide sensible explanation for my reasoning. You don't seem to have more than "but MY friends knew about it".

edit:
@RedMeowth, most of your complaints about Squirtle are... questionable.
 

Chou Toshio

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Point is "my friends knew / don't know" about it is totally irrelevant. This isn't missingno or stuck underground where bizarre things happen that break the game. This is a simple function of pikachu's happiness that is easily achievable with items that are readily available, and work completely reasonably. >___>

(if you gave a friend a popcicle, even if he didn't want it, he'd be happy you offered it. "It's the thought that counts")
 
Actually almost everyone knows about missingno, it's used for cloning items and catching 100 lvs after all, really easy to do as well.
(I don't think that shoving medicine down the throat of healthy being is logical)
 

Chou Toshio

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^my point is that how well known a function is, is totally irrelevant. The point is this is not a glitch-like function of the game, and even if it was, it's not game-breaking like missingno. etc. It's totally reasonable to get bulbasaur as soon as you get to cerulean.
 

breh

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No, Omanyte has less Special because StatExp. I don't get how having Rock typing is so good. You still get poisoned by Smog/Sludge. You win vs Fire either way. Blastoise has enough Defense to take Normal type attacks pretty safely.
Omanyte has more special when it evolves in 10 levels and its special starts out high to begin with. The effect of stat exp. isn't all that great, tbh.

Rock-typing is good because it means that every normal-type you face loses, meaning Rattata and Raticate in Silph are easy kills.
 
If you don't know that some function doesn't exist, there's no use of it for you.
IMO it's not even a question that using items on full HP Pokemon wasn't Game Freak's intention. Glitch/bug/whatever you want to call it.

Omanyte has more special when it evolves in 10 levels and its special starts out high to begin with.
That's irrelevant. We were talking about moment when Omanyte is obtained.

Rock-typing is good because it means that every normal-type you face loses, meaning Rattata and Raticate in Silph are easy kills.
You don't need Rock typing to win vs Normals. Blastoise has enough defense to do it. Also, Blastoise doesn't need to grind in Pokemon Mansion because he's on high enough level. Rock Typing is beneficial on Cinnabar Island but I wouldn't be so sure about rest of the game.
 
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