Even though it would have been easier to include an exception for Shedinja. But well...
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Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
They are, the note about it after they announced it was for all the games i believe
The way it was described they'd retain the moveset when brought back to their home game (the example given was a SWSH Pikachu taken to BDSP or LA, would return to SWSH with the moves it had to begin with), though I'll admit I'm less sure of how something like Sing Pikachu would work if you brought it directly from Home to BDSP without ever touching SWSH
Wonder when the dataminers will get the TM/TR movesets for all the mons
Scenario: What happens if you have 2 Dialga in your BD game (one caught in the game, another brought in from Home), and then try to move them both to Home at the same time?
Answer: Nothing, you can freely move both.
If I had to guess it's only looking for the mark associated with BDSP (the little triad symbol)
Scenario: What happens if you bring a Pokemon with weird stuff direclt into SWSH post the update? In this case I am sacrificing my Victini with the reshiram/zekrom moves and V-Create so be grateful!
Answer: Nothing, you can still do that. Still got that weirdo victini. No warnings or what have you.
SIDE NOTE OBSERVATION: I noticed a number of Pokemon in my Home boxes (that is, when you view Home's boxes on their own without another game) that hadn't been transferred anywhere dont display a move set at all. Ominous! Some of them stil lhad the triangle "hey this thing has a move that wont work in this game" warning despite that so i guess it's just a mask
Scenario: What happens if you bring a pokemon with weird event stuff directly into BDSP touching a different game first? I am sacrificing my FEB2012 Mewtwo that had Electro Ball on it. In this scenario it went Home -> BDSP -> Back to Home -> SWSH
Answer: It gave the usual warning about it when moving it to BDSP. After shuffling it back into Home then SWSH, the original moveset (with electroball and everything) is reinstated. To my knwoeldge I never brought the Mewtwo from Home to SWSH even back when Home first went live. I'd test out my TRU Arceus with the trio moves but without a "normal" game to relate to uhhhh.....Kinda hard to really verify anything.
Answer: Nothing, you can freely move both.
If I had to guess it's only looking for the mark associated with BDSP (the little triad symbol)
Scenario: What happens if you bring a Pokemon with weird stuff direclt into SWSH post the update? In this case I am sacrificing my Victini with the reshiram/zekrom moves and V-Create so be grateful!
Answer: Nothing, you can still do that. Still got that weirdo victini. No warnings or what have you.
SIDE NOTE OBSERVATION: I noticed a number of Pokemon in my Home boxes (that is, when you view Home's boxes on their own without another game) that hadn't been transferred anywhere dont display a move set at all. Ominous! Some of them stil lhad the triangle "hey this thing has a move that wont work in this game" warning despite that so i guess it's just a mask
Scenario: What happens if you bring a pokemon with weird event stuff directly into BDSP touching a different game first? I am sacrificing my FEB2012 Mewtwo that had Electro Ball on it. In this scenario it went Home -> BDSP -> Back to Home -> SWSH
Answer: It gave the usual warning about it when moving it to BDSP. After shuffling it back into Home then SWSH, the original moveset (with electroball and everything) is reinstated. To my knwoeldge I never brought the Mewtwo from Home to SWSH even back when Home first went live. I'd test out my TRU Arceus with the trio moves but without a "normal" game to relate to uhhhh.....Kinda hard to really verify anything.
This was moderately expected but also mostly confirms my theory that they only wanted to limit the move compatibility with BDSP and LA to not have to deal with potential constant "btw this move is fucked" - "btw this move shouldnt be in this game" etc.
I feel a bit better now about my fears from some days ago.
R_N if you end up being bored enough, would you try to confirm my theory (heck i can even help you with it) about what would happen if a pokemon with custom moveset in bdsp and swsh (say, TMs, or just various moves that aren't in level up order) is moved to a game, traded *via that game*, then on the new switch moved to the other game?
If mons can't retain their moveset upon entering BDSP, then what even is the point of transferring to BDSP? It feels pointless.
Scenario: I brought an ancient Palkia over to BDSP and taught it Strength. Then put it in Home, then brought to SWSH. Does it retain strength?
Answer: The moveset it had prior to being brought to BDSP was retained
Scenario: That same exact Palkia, brought back to Home then back to BDSP. Did it remember it had Strength?
Answer: Shockingly, yes!
I will posit a theory though, for anyone wanting to check against it:
I think that what is happening is Home itself is noting the original moveset the Pokemon in question has and is probably making a note about it upon transfer, like "Okay, this pokemon is out for the day, It has this moveset." When the Pokemon comes back, if it has new moves it makes a note about it associated with that game, then just swaps the moveset out depending on where the Pokemon lands.
So
On that assumption
I think that if you take that pokemon, trade it to another Switch, put that one in their Home, it will treat that moveset as the "original BDSP" on that instance of Home. If you were to then take it out, send it BACK to the original guy and then I put it back in my Home and then idk SWSH, it will still remember "ah yes, this is THAT Palkia, so it knows these moves, but because it came back from BDSP any changes made to it we will apply when it goes back"
Answer: The moveset it had prior to being brought to BDSP was retained
Scenario: That same exact Palkia, brought back to Home then back to BDSP. Did it remember it had Strength?
Answer: Shockingly, yes!
That would definitely require a second person, and i would take you on that offer, but trading pokemon in gen 8 is the worst most miserable experience gamefreak has ever mustered and kills my drive to experiment like that.
I will posit a theory though, for anyone wanting to check against it:
I think that what is happening is Home itself is noting the original moveset the Pokemon in question has and is probably making a note about it upon transfer, like "Okay, this pokemon is out for the day, It has this moveset." When the Pokemon comes back, if it has new moves it makes a note about it associated with that game, then just swaps the moveset out depending on where the Pokemon lands.
So
On that assumption
I think that if you take that pokemon, trade it to another Switch, put that one in their Home, it will treat that moveset as the "original BDSP" on that instance of Home. If you were to then take it out, send it BACK to the original guy and then I put it back in my Home and then idk SWSH, it will still remember "ah yes, this is THAT Palkia, so it knows these moves, but because it came back from BDSP any changes made to it we will apply when it goes back"
When you first send the Pokemon to BDSP or LA, it fully changes to the moveset corresponding to that game's level up movelist. Doesn't matter what it knew originally.
Guys, come on.
We all know the REAL reason for this change is so they don't have to update SWSH with a patch that only adds a few tweaks to the legality checker and some new moves that'll just be unusable anyway.
I mean, what's the point when Gen 8 is nearly over anyways?
We all know the REAL reason for this change is so they don't have to update SWSH with a patch that only adds a few tweaks to the legality checker and some new moves that'll just be unusable anyway.
I mean, what's the point when Gen 8 is nearly over anyways?
Yes but also not.
If they don't plan to bring these moves back at all in SV, there'd also be no point in implementing then in SwSh either.
Realistically speaking as I said above, they didn't wanna bother having constant warnings of "btw this move is unusable in this game" for both moves present in SwSh and not BDSP/LA and other way around. Expecially considering the clusterfuck of coding that BDSP is.
Understandably so honestly.
What's the reasoning behind blocking Nincada from being transferred from HOME to BDSP specifically, and not the other way around? I know it has something to do with clone detection and old versions of BDSP having rampant cloning glitches, but I don't know more details.
It feels like the situation GF/ILCA's trying to prevent is "player cloned and evolved a bunch of Nincada in BDSP before the patch, now we can't tell which ones are clones because our clone checker has to ignore Ninjask and Shedinja". But then wouldn't you want some kind of BDSP -> HOME block? A one-way HOME -> BDSP block for Nincada specifically doesn't seem to serve any purpose.
It feels like the situation GF/ILCA's trying to prevent is "player cloned and evolved a bunch of Nincada in BDSP before the patch, now we can't tell which ones are clones because our clone checker has to ignore Ninjask and Shedinja". But then wouldn't you want some kind of BDSP -> HOME block? A one-way HOME -> BDSP block for Nincada specifically doesn't seem to serve any purpose.
Its been a while but i think the gist is that while native nincada are able to work around the clone check, the non-native nincada start (not) flipping flags for whatever reason.
Also I think this is like the third damn time the Nincada line has caused some sort of issue in gen 8 so I would not be surprised if Nincada is just coincidentally not in Gen 9.
Do you remember which source this came from? According to Kaphotics' twitter, BDSP's clone checker automatically ignores all Ninjask, Shedinja, and all Pokemon without the BDSP origin mark. But cloning isn't possible in BDSP anymore (and you need to update to connect to Home). I'm still baffled by what purpose the block serves.
There is an exception. That's what confuses me, because if anything it should block Ninjask and Shedinja from leaving BDSP, instead of blocking Nincada from entering, which is like exactly the opposite of what would make the most sense.
Unfortunately no, and it's possible I'm conflating with other, earlier nincada nonsense.
I just distinctly remember someone clarifying later that the code had weird things that it SHOULD have checked, but didn't, in relation to nincada.
That reminds me of the broken HOME clone checker, which is entirely separate from the BDSP one, uses different metrics (so raids don't get flagged en masse), and at some point used to delete Shedinja. As far as I know BDSP has never deleted Shedinja.
Another way I'm thinking about this is: The only way something bad can happen is if
- Non-clones are falsely flagged as clones
- Or clones fail to get flagged
- BDSP will never flag Pokemon without the BDSP origin mark, so there's no risk of false flags
- What bad thing could possibly happen by having a SwSh Nincada in BDSP, that would not happen by having the same SwSh Ninjask and SwSh Shedinja in BDSP? (If Nincada evolves inside BDSP then something bad allegedly happens, but if Nincada evolves outside BDSP then it doesn't happen?)
I did find this tweet
but the follow up question from the guy anubis, basically asking the same thing you are, is talking with goes unanswered lol
I have no idea how HOME works internally, but my theory is that it's because of the new game-specific-moveset saving mechanic and how it's stored on HOME servers + tied to the HOME tracker value, as that's the only relevant thing I can think of to why you aren't allowed to cross Nincada between games according to the tweet above. I can't picture an exact scenario on how this would work though if depositing Ninjask and Shedinja really does just reassign one tracker, but maybe you could possibly lose an egg move or something depending on how it works, while there would be no problem in the past because they could just keep the learned moveset the same.
My guess of a hypothetical situation:
Nincada spawns in SWSH with inherited egg moves and goes to HOME with tracker 1.
Nincada evolves in BDSP to Ninjask (1) and Shedinja (1).
Ninjask (1) gets sent back to SWSH with its tracker and moves as a Nincada intact.
Shedinja gets reassigned to tracker 2 when being placed into HOME.
Now either Shedinja loses all its SWSH history moves on reassignment and lose egg moves, or Shedinja gets the moves copied from tracker 1.
In the latter case, Ninjask could learn moves and re-store them in HOME under tracker 1, and then Shedinja could come back from BDSP and copy over Ninjask's latest moveset.
I guess you could test this in reality by hacking mons to have the same HOME tracker value from within SWSH and BDSP and seeing what happens. I feel like they would probably just treat the 'clone' as a fresh mon and give it blank data for convenience.
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This home tracker stuff gives me a headache.
So is it only tracking clones in gen 8 or does it account for past-gen identical clones?
Like say I cloned 2 identical mons via powersaves/pkhex in gen 7, does home actually track them as the same mon or 2 separate mons until they're cloned in gen 8 as well? I'm being told outside it'll track that.
I'm under the assumption gen7 - > gen8 they get assigned a tracker id for the first time and now that permanant ID will track any potential dupes done going forward (without editing the home tracker value as well).
So is it only tracking clones in gen 8 or does it account for past-gen identical clones?
Like say I cloned 2 identical mons via powersaves/pkhex in gen 7, does home actually track them as the same mon or 2 separate mons until they're cloned in gen 8 as well? I'm being told outside it'll track that.
I'm under the assumption gen7 - > gen8 they get assigned a tracker id for the first time and now that permanant ID will track any potential dupes done going forward (without editing the home tracker value as well).
It may also just be that BDSP lack the functionality to properly duplicate the data that's associated with a Pokémon from another game.
As an example: Shedinja normally copies the origin mark (or lack thereof) from Nincada, BDSP may not actually have the code to set origin marks other than its own.
Other things BDSP might not have code to set: Dynamax Level, Ribbons it doesn't give out (especially the Memory Ribbons).
As an example: Shedinja normally copies the origin mark (or lack thereof) from Nincada, BDSP may not actually have the code to set origin marks other than its own.
Other things BDSP might not have code to set: Dynamax Level, Ribbons it doesn't give out (especially the Memory Ribbons).