Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021

Just thought of something: when Bank/Home compatibility was announced for all previous games since XY, what kind of time frame was given? Did they usually say "Early <year>" or just "<year>"?

It occurs to me that by saying "2022", it almost automatically implies "later in 2022" because marketing reasons. But past announcements could be a counterexample.
Bank was initially announced on September 4 without a date but confirmed specific initial release dates for each region later on. (https://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Gotta_Meme_'em_All:_Pokémon_Bank_Delay)

For the Bank Gen 7 update (September 20 announcement), the western announcement said "January 2017", but the Japanese one more specifically said the end of January.
(https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/23/14360658/when-is-pokemon-bank-coming-out-for-sun-and-moon)

Pokemon Home's press announcement (January 28) specified February 2020. (https://press.pokemon.com/en/POKEMON-HOME-TO-LAUNCH-IN-FEBRUARY-2020)

So the past has usually been more specific. I could not find any news about the other games being announced ahead of time, but ORAS and USUM got it within days.

EDIT: I'm not sure if it was mentioned in this thread yet but Masuda's last day with ILCA and BDSP was on March 25 so the game is probably done unless they need some other update for HOME or Legends content that they have to deal with, though that might just need to be on the HOME side.
 
Sorry for double posting, but there was a recent interesting twitter thread on the state of Home's BDSP compatibility by SciresM. Apparently it actually may not be very feasible because the innards of BDSP work differently from every other game and ILCA only made the HOME phone app, not the Switch app that works with save data. Also Legends is fine, but I feel like they wouldn't want to add Legends support before BDSP so it's all in limbo for now.

SciresM said:
Adding technical support to home for bdsp seems like an impossible nightmare task to me. The fact that they said they'd do it is hilarious.

BDSP is a unity game. The normal Pokémon games, including home, are C++ using a custom engine ("gflib"/gamefreak lib). BDSP is a unity game and saves are literally a C# object serialized to disk without specifying offsets which can change between versions. (1/2)

Adding support means parsing Pokémon from and updating the save. But it's a C# structure using not specified serialization with multiple versions. They'll have to hand roll a C#/unity object deserializer in a non-unity codebase. It's going to be an enormous hack in every way.

You can do it but you can't do it robustly. There's no way to do it that doesn't end up being revolting -- even the PKHeX code for BDSP is gross and PKHeX cheats a lot in ways they can't. It's really, really funny how bad the task they saddled themselves with is.

On the other hand, there's actually no technical excuse for PLA, which uses gflib. They made PKM format changes so the database will need PKM versioning added (and interconversion) but it's straightforward. No technical obstacles there.

(main thread)

(replies)

 
Consideirng how they kept odubling down on adding Home stuff in BDSP updates I'll still believe they're doing it, and that maybe on their actual backend it's not...AS...neigh-impossible as it seems from our perspective.

Although if this resulted in an overhaul on the switch Home app I wouldn't say no...
 
I think they will do it in the end anyway... would be extremely weird to have the game not compatible.

HOWEVER.. that'd mean that in order to require absurly complicated code translations, it may end up being a one way transfer, for the joy of BDSP OU players.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Sorry for double posting, but there was a recent interesting twitter thread on the state of Home's BDSP compatibility by SciresM. Apparently it actually may not be very feasible because the innards of BDSP work differently from every other game and ILCA only made the HOME phone app, not the Switch app that works with save data. Also Legends is fine, but I feel like they wouldn't want to add Legends support before BDSP so it's all in limbo for now.




(main thread)

(replies)

And this is why we are never seeing ILCA work on this franchise again without some major changes. From the perspective of both ILCA and what I'll refer to as the "Pokemon Machine", i.e. the Nintendo/TPC/Game Freak trifecta, this is what each company sees:
-The Pokemon Machine ended up releasing a remake that despite its overbearing rigidity to the source material still managed to be a bizarrely glitchy piece of crap that now has this immense failure that could put transferring on hold and compromise it when it does release. The end result was a very lukewarmly received title even among casuals for what should've been a slam dunk
-ILCA was put through a development cycle I presume to be miserable even for Japanese game dev standards (1.5 years of production for a modern console rpg? seriously????) with the comparison being even more stark with the incoming presumably way higher quality One Piece game coming out that actually had something resembling time to cook

Even with the horror stories about corporate culture over there considered it seems like there was little redeeming value to this production from the standpoint of those involved. Sure, it sold well, but that's standard for a mainline Pokemon game, and even then the fact that PLA has decisively outsold BDSP in Japan despite coming out later and well outside the holiday season strikes me as a pretty huge red flag. While we're not gonna see an employee breach NDA to write a scathing tell-all or anything, I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing has strained Game Freak and ILCA's working relationship behind closed doors.
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
And this is why we are never seeing ILCA work on this franchise again without some major changes. From the perspective of both ILCA and what I'll refer to as the "Pokemon Machine", i.e. the Nintendo/TPC/Game Freak trifecta, this is what each company sees:
-The Pokemon Machine ended up releasing a remake that despite its overbearing rigidity to the source material still managed to be a bizarrely glitchy piece of crap that now has this immense failure that could put transferring on hold and compromise it when it does release. The end result was a very lukewarmly received title even among casuals for what should've been a slam dunk
I want to point out here that BDSP is only a glitchy mess if you actively go searching for glitchy messes. Like the vast majority of games, it plays perfectly fine if you don't go hunting for the broken stuff. I never had a single bug (apart from I think one freeze up, which is pretty typical over 50 hours or whatever) which was unrelated to anything regarding menu manipulation. Calling it a glitchy mess when most people will never experience a bug is pretty harsh really. This isn't Bethesda were falling through the map is a common occurrence. I don't disagree with it being lukewarmly received though. It didn't capture the originals all that brilliantly, and I think concentrating on Platinum elements would have helped there.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Yes, I am jumping into this late. I'm just gonna respond to the "current" discussion at hand:

Game Freak & ILCA: Business Relations & Partnership Lessons

I'm not gonna spin any theories of whether the moderate success, development difficulties (which I don't think we have deep details on aside the happened?), lukewarm reception & critical criticism of BDSP has done anything between Game Freak and ILCA. Sadly, nowadays that's sorta business as usual.

If I'm curious of anything is if the experience of letting another company develop a main series Pokemon game has taught GF anything. Before we can ask that though, there's two major we need to know:

1. Who decided for it to stick close to a 1:1 remake.
2. Who decided on the art style.

"Um, duh, GF". Okay, that's my bias talking, and I do feel GF would be the main pusher for both with ILCA having little say except for maybe places where they could do some additions & changes. "The Underground is kind of pointless without the multiplayer, can we replace it with a semi-Wild Area"? "You won't let up change the teams, but can we change around the movesets as long as they're legal"? "Post game in the Battle Tower can we just make super hard teams"?

Though there's still the possibility that ILCA, if it didn't push for it, was more than happy with the restriction. 1:1 Remake means there's a clear script to follow for the main game and the art style is on the surface looks simple and can give them some freedom to show expressions.

This is an important distinction because if it was mainly GF than the limits they were pushing may have added extra difficulty upon ILCA to make the product. If they were to do this again with another remake, let's say Gen Vs, if they learned a lesson it would be to not be too strict and let the developer has more freedom with the story & art style (and on ILCA's front, or whatever developer they get to do the remake, maybe try to push back for said more freedom). BUT if it was ILCA being totally cool with everything yet still having development problems, well for GF this might discourage them for doing this again or at the very least partnering with a smaller studio like ILCA (and ILCA may feel the restrictions of making a main series Pokemon game isn't for them).

This is, of course, if GF cares about anything other than the money made. If they did only see this as a quick cash grab (at most a necessary side thing needed to be done to clear a path for their ideal project: Legends Arceus), then as long as it made them a decent amount of money they don't care. It would be said if this is the case, but I can totally see GF thinking of themselves as the only people who can make Pokemon games *shoves all fanmade games under a carpet in a giant lump* and using BDSP as "proof" even if its proof they (possibly) caused themselves; aka a "setting them up to fail" scenario.

Like all things in life the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle and the likely result is GF likely not wanting to do this often so any lesson learned is mute, at least until a similar circumstance happens again and someone decides to see what things went wrong last time they had another developer make a main series game.
 
This is, of course, if GF cares about anything other than the money made. If they did only see this as a quick cash grab (at most a necessary side thing needed to be done to clear a path for their ideal project: Legends Arceus), then as long as it made them a decent amount of money they don't care.
You know, there is a part of me that wonders if DP remakes were actually planned in first place.

With the fact they were outsourced and made as just 1:1 remake rather than bother with any addition to the story, I wonder if someone in the higher places was reading the popularity charts and saw "uff, they wont stop demanding a new remake, let's make a low budget gen 4 remake and give it to the guys who make Home so they shut up for a couple more years and we can keep working on actually new games".

(Unpopular opinion: Remakes are pointless, i'm moderately tired of half of modern gaming industry being just remakes/ports of old games, and I wouldn't be surprised if GF was not planning for any remake in the near future)
 
(which I don't think we have deep details on aside the happened?)
What I've learned from watching youtube series about troubled productions is that it is harder to find out most of the juicy drama and details in Japanese games because of having strict non-disclosure agreements and other legal papers to prevent such info from going public.

Matt McMuscles, creator of the Wha Happun series that covers those types of topics, pretty much stated outright that games that do not involve western studios in any capacity are harder to find behind-the-scenes info about. Most of the games Published by Japanese studios that he is able to get more elaborate details on often had at least one western company being involved with its creation.
 
Happening soon (English page here)




Bank, LGPE, and Go are one-way to Home, and two-way to/from Home and SS, BDSP, and Arceus.



Pokemon from SS and BDSP to Arceus will be in this new "Strange Ball".

Hidden Ability Turtwig, Chimcar, and Piplup will be available as gifts in the smartphone version of Home when you first deposit a Pokemon from BDSP to Home. Unclear if the natures are locked at the moment, but the website shows Turtwig as adamant, Chimchar as hasty, and Piplup as modest.

Similarly, max effort level Rowlet, Cyndaquil, and Oshawott will be available as gifts in the smartphone version of Home when you first deposit a Pokemon from Arceus to Home. The website shows Rowlet as jolly, Cyndaquil as modest, and Oshawott as rash.
 
Last edited:
I genuinely thought they would drag this until the release of Scarlet and Violet. I'm surprised.

But this will likely not have any relevant use, though, given the few Pokémon the three games have in common.
 
I genuinely thought they would drag this until the release of Scarlet and Violet. I'm surprised.

But this will likely not have any relevant use, though, given the few Pokémon the three games have in common.
Yup, and sadly with the moveset reset, it's not like there's any fancyness in bringing out weird moves/abilities combinations not possible before.

Guess ultimately it's just to bring the Shinys you caught in Arceus to the main game if you want to use them there, or drag your legendaries around to fill pokedexes here and there if you still hadnt.
 
The japanese website (the english homep age is, uh, dead lol oops) has some specific examples:
If you take a level 20 Pikachu caught in "Pokémon Sword Shield" to "Pokémon B Diamond/S Pearl", it will learn a move equivalent to level 20 in "Pokémon B Diamond/S Pearl".

If you take a level 20 Pikachu caught in "Pokemon Sword Shield" to "Pokemon B Diamond/S Pearl", make it level 50, and return it to "Pokemon Sword Shield", it will return to the move it originally learned in "Pokemon Sword Shield". If you take this Pikachu to "Pokémon LEGENDS" this time, it will learn a move equivalent to level 50 in "Pokémon LEGENDS".


Also, I presume because of the BDSP cloning being so easy, they're putting in a special condition for that game specifically: "Special" pokemon (read: probably just all the legendary pokemon, because the example was Dialga) can only be deposited from that BDSP game per save file.
 

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
At this point im more interested on whats going to happen with gen 7 and previous mons when moved to BDSP, they dont seem to mention them anywhere so there still some hope we get stuff like hidden power and toxic available for everyone, but wouldnt be surprised if even them get a moveset reset because GF hates fun.
Hisui forms most likely will have to wait until SV and i wouldnt even count on stuff like galarian forms coming to BDSP, so other than Deoxys nothing is really comming to BDSP with this.
 
At this point im more interested on whats going to happen with gen 7 and previous mons when moved to BDSP, they dont seem to mention them anywhere so there still some hope we get stuff like hidden power and toxic available for everyone, but wouldnt be surprised if even them get a moveset reset because GF hates fun.
Hisui forms most likely will have to wait until SV and i wouldnt even count on stuff like galarian forms coming to BDSP, so other than Deoxys nothing is really comming to BDSP with this.
I am going to presume that any non-BDSP pokemon coming into BDSP will reset to their BDSP learnset.

Though I wonder how that might work out for going to SWSH first, THEN bdsp, since touching SWSH might adjust the data enough to mark it as "SWSH"...many things to look into once the update hits.
 
Well..this move reset thing is no fun and the entire transfer one of the special one of a kinda mons is even more so. Like if I what to send in a bunch of random old arceus does that make them trapped there forever? Like..wut?
 
Well..this move reset thing is no fun and the entire transfer one of the special one of a kinda mons is even more so. Like if I what to send in a bunch of random old arceus does that make them trapped there forever? Like..wut?
I'm not sure I understand. What would make them "trapped"? If you send a "gen 4 Arceus" to Home (via Bank), then it can go to gen 8 games like normal, and it will have a separate moveset for all 3 games. With SwSh carrying over its existing one, and BDSP/LA getting new freshly generated ones.
The pokemon itself is still the same with all the marks, pokeball, IV/EVs and shininess and things you may have on it, just separate movesets.
 
I'm not sure I understand. What would make them "trapped"? If you send a "gen 4 Arceus" to Home (via Bank), then it can go to gen 8 games like normal, and it will have a separate moveset for all 3 games. With SwSh carrying over its existing one, and BDSP/LA getting new freshly generated ones.
The pokemon itself is still the same with all the marks, pokeball, IV/EVs and shininess and things you may have on it, just separate movesets.
No, I am talking about the sending only one of each "special" pokemon from BD/SP to home per save file. If I move lets say 4 Arceus into BD/SP by that rule only one can go back from BD/SP to home. Which is dumb as fuck. It means if you want to focus playing BD/SP and want a handful of different Mew, sets or what not, then you are effectively fucked if a newer game comes out an interests you.

Edit: Though it may be possible that I am reading this wrong and it is in particular referring exclusively to mons from BD/Sp and not ones transferred in.
 
I was hoping the english side would be more clear (since the Japanese blurb is very short and doesnt account for other instances) but it doesn't seem to acknowledge it at all

one brave soul out there will have to test this with an Arceus of their own
 
Though it may be possible that I am reading this wrong and it is in particular referring exclusively to mons from BD/Sp and not ones transferred in
From what I remind, Home already has some pseudo-cloning-check that prevents you from depositing cloned pokemon by nuking the clones if they are detected.

I do think what they mean with that is that whatever is marked as special (very likely referring to legendary/mythicals) can only be moved once... something you can probably circunvent by trading them to someone willing to reset their save maybe on a secondary account.

Still I will agree their wording is very confusing.
 
From what I remind, Home already has some pseudo-cloning-check that prevents you from depositing cloned pokemon by nuking the clones if they are detected.

I do think what they mean with that is that whatever is marked as special (very likely referring to legendary/mythicals) can only be moved once... something you can probably circunvent by trading them to someone willing to reset their save maybe on a secondary account.

Still I will agree their wording is very confusing.
They do have a clone check, which just serves to make this rule even stupider.
 
From what I remind, Home already has some pseudo-cloning-check that prevents you from depositing cloned pokemon by nuking the clones if they are detected.
They actually had to revert this feature because it was deleting Shedinja that inherited the same tracker value from Nincada.
Edit: As of time of edit, HOME tracker assigns a fresh tracker to any entries entering HOME, that bear a duplicate tracker when compared to an entry already in HOME.
https://projectpokemon.org/home/forums/topic/56296-read-home-tracker-value/

If it wasn't mentioned yet, Centro previously predicted some of these upcoming Home features on Twitter as it seems like he still has some internal insight there. Overall two-way transfers is more than I expected, it could be pretty interesting if they can go between games but the move thing really puts a damper on what could have been.

EDIT: I looked at the website and I have to say it's nice they are actually syncing the pokedex from your game box save data like Bank did.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 3)

Top