Metagame Pokébilities

[typhlosion787]

https://pokepast.es/8e47e9ed596ffadf

Just going to get into the team. I believe it would be considered balance due to the mix of offense and stall.

Wanted to build around a Pressure stall Zapdos. Went with the suggested OU EV spread because while I know a lot about the meta, I'm not the best when it comes to EV spreads. Discharge is obvious for para chance and Sub+Roost for PP stalling. Toxic for ground types to make sure they can't just switch in and constantly force switches.

Clef is a mon I feel is mandatory on every team lest you end up with a less viable team. Moonblast is obvious, Knock for useful utility, Rocks because I didn't know what the rest of my team would be at the time and I felt it would be fine to keep it after the teambuilding was done. Softboiled because duh. One turn recovery that doesn't get weakened by rain

Cinccino was added to have a cleanup pokemon after the opposing team is weakened, which I feel is the only role where it can reliably put in consistent work. Pads to prevent contact punishment and the moveset is obvious except one thing, that being my choice of Triple Axel over Bullet Seed. How I decided this was going through a list of various viable pokemon and common pokemon across not only pokebilities, but also OU and UU because newcomers may stick to what they know. Triple Axel ended up being more helpful as coverage than Bullet Seed will be. While it can be annoying to go up against bulky waters without Bullet Seed, Zapdos does do decent against them with super effective stab in tandem with Toxic and PP stalling whreas I didn't really have anything to hit pokemon like Lando and Tangrowth hard on the switch.

Alolawak was put on the team to bust the holes in teams needed for Cinccino to clean up late game. Along with this, not much deals with both stabs, so I decided to make it a double dance set. With this, it has a potential to sweep, not even requiring Cinccino to clean up in certain situations.

Heatran was an addition mainly as a glue against some physical attackers. I didn't feel like I needed Heatran as a trapper, so I thought I'd go with an old favorite set. Lava Plume for obvious stab and the 30% burn chance, Toxic for general walls and limiting setup sweepers, Protect for extra leftovers recovery, and Stealth Rock to have a second setter on the team

I really wanted to add Garchomp to the team as another wallbreaker, and I felt I could successfully do so with the team I'd created up to this point. I originally wanted to run Band, but decided against it just to be annoying with contact punishment, which can even help Garchomp hit some ranges without locking it into a move like Band does. Stone Edge for Togekiss and Fire Blast to dent Tangrowth and Corv, forcing them to recover while I switch

 

[typhlosion787]

Little theorymon discussion. Let's say pokebilities was available in past generations and removed gen 5's ban on abilities that boost speed in weather. Of course, Excadrill would be banned immediately, much like the current meta, but I think the second to go is easily Kingdra. After getting rid of the opposing weather setter, Kingdra is wreaking havoc on everything. Permanent weather that boosts it's stab and gives it a free Agility plus an ability that multiplies crit damage by 1.5. In gen 5, crits did 2x the damage instead of 1.5x, which means the crit would do 3x with Sniper instead of 2.25x with Sniper like it is post gen 5. Combine this with Scope Lens and Focus Energy along with the general difficulty of slapping Knock Off onto a pokemon due to its much lower 20 BP pre gen 6 and you have a crit machine. You don't even need Choice Specs because you already have your damage output multiplied significantly more with the guaranteed crits Scope Lens+Focus Energy gives you. Just imagine a rain boosted crit Hydro Pump from Kingdra in a meta like this. It would simply be ridiculously powerful and way too overwhelming, probably getting banned immediately. Anyway, hope y'all enjoyed this theorymon discussion, feel free to talk about more. I've always liked the idea of bringing modern gen metas into past generations and the first thing I thought about for pokebilities besides Nat Dex and Ubers was gen 5 with all the crazy weather

 

[typhlosion787]

Back again, once again, talking about some theorymons. Ever since gen 8 was announced to not have the national dex, I knew several pokemon would be cut out of the meta. Some rather small, some pretty big. Here are some of the pokemon that were cut out that I think could have a place in a Nat Dex pokebilities format

Gliscor- Already extremely annoying, but becomes even worse on sand due to the ability to just randomly avoid an attack and get a free 12.5% recovered. Defensive behemoth with solid offensive potential as well, being able to take advantage of Facade fairly easily

Breloom- This thing would be absolutely crazy. Already absolutely terrifying with just one ability, but when it can just have all, Breloom is just a monster. Technician Force Palm with a 30% chance to paralyze and Technician Rock Tomb for good coverage tacked on with Poison Heal and even the solid Effect Spore for decent measure and I can easily see Breloom being both extremely meta and counter-meta at the same time.

Ursaring- With Conk gone, probably going to be the clear best Guts abuser for its effective base 107 speed after status along with its crazy 492 attack after status with a base 210 power Facade after stab and status, Ursaring is going to be an absolute nuke. Ursaring could also be helpful in trying to shut down berry abusers like Diggersby, Greedent, Snorlax, and Sceptile

Yanmega- With the introduction of Boots, probably the most boosted pokemon in the new meta because it keeps its insane power and ability combination while not being crippled by hazards and lack of switch in capability while also not having to give up on the potential extra power of Z moves (if they aren't banned). While base 95 is a crowded speed tier, Yanmega can afford to run Modest to boost its already crazy base 116 special attack because of its speed boost ability. To add on, gaining momentum with U-Turn won't even be a large issue anymore because you have Boots for rocks. You don't even have to sacrifice firepower as you keep Tinted Lens as well as having Frisk for potential scouting purposes

Swellow- The fastest Guts abuser by far and pretty powerful. While still not the best with miniscule bulk, Scrappy allowing Facade to smack ghost types is amazing compared to other normal type Guts users that rely on coverage, freeing up a moveslot for Swellow. Won't be the best in the meta or anything, but fairly solid

Staraptor- One word. NUKE. Seriously, though, while it has several flaws, being able to cripple a pokemon with Intimidate on the switch while maintaining terrifying power with Reckless boosted stab Brave Bird and Double Edge off of a base 120 attack stat is extremely scary. Perhaps one of the best cleanup pokemon for offensive teams when the opposing team has been beaten down upon

Raticate- Fun fact, after status, a Jolly pokebilities Raticate has higher attack than an Adamant base Mega Mewtwo X (assuming full invesment in attack for both pokemon). Raticate can be extraordinarily unreliable due to a base 97 speed, which, while still outrunning the massively important base 95 speed tier, doesn't even tie with the even more important base 100 tier, along with extremely poor bulk, Hustle, and meager coverage (never thought I'd say that about Raticate of all pokemon). However, when used properly and luck isn't completely against one, Raticate is a terror

Gumshoos- I could definitely see this having success on Trick Room teams or being a counter to stall on offensive teams. Hyper Fang gets boosted to 120 BP by Strong Jaw and up to 240 with stab and Adaptability. Nearly nothing can safely switch in due to crazy coverage in Crunch, Fire/Ice/Thunder Fang, and Earthquake along with Stakeout, but even then, Gumshoos can still hit for extremely hard damage with Pursuit (since its Nat Dex), which while, unfortunately, not boosted by Stakeout, is still extremely strong and threatening.

Hariyama- Basically just a worse Conk, but may actually have use assuming Conk would remained banned in a Nat Dex format of pokebilities. Better than Machamp due to retaining Sheer Force along with having much, MUCH more bulk with its crazy HP stat and two extra resistances with Thick Fat. While it is the bulkiest of the three, Hariyama is also the weakest of the three with only a base 120 attack stat compared to Machamp's 130 or Conkeldurr's 140. Along with this, Hariyama doesn't really have any reliable forms of recovery to help its bulk, not even getting Drain Punch. While Rest Talk could be fun because sleep keeps Guts, Rest Talk is notoriously inconsistent and unreliable. Better than the other Guts fighters, but worse than all of the normal type Guts users

Bibarel- With Moody and trapping abilities being straight up disabled, Bibarel no longer has the crazy random setup that used to make it a god with the free +2 from Moody becoming a +4 with Simple and Unaware ignoring your negative stat changes. Because of this, Bibarel is probably going to be strictly a gimimck with Curse, which will probably be better than Swords Dance because the defense boost lets you take better advantage of physical setup sweepers because you keep your raised defense while ignoring their raised attack. Wouldn't reccomend

Ambipom- Just a worse Cinccino. Yes, it gets Fire Punch, Aerial Ace, Pursuit, Fake Out, Switcheroo, and Shadow Claw, but its only way to take advantage of Technician+Skill Link is Tail Slap whereas Cinccino also has Bullet Seed, Rock Blast, and Triple Axel as possibilities. Its coverage makes it better at handling steels, but not much else in all honesty. The +5 in base attack compared to Cinccino doesn't even help Ambipom much considering just how outclassed it is.

While the lower few pokemon on the list are quite worse than the others, I could see all these pokemon being potential threats in a theoretical Nat Dex pokebilities metagame. Bibarel and Ambipom are the only ones that I wouldn't really consider using. The normal type threats increased quite a lot with 5 (not including Bibarel and Ambipom), meaning that rock, steel, and ghost types would probably be even more common than they already were, but the meta would continuously adapt to the new changes, such as pairing normal types with a fighting type such as Mienshao. I truly hope that the next time pokebilities comes back, it is in the national dex format, but even if not, I will continue looking into the metagame as I already always do.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

Here are some of the pokemon that were cut out that I think could have a place in a Nat Dex pokebilities format

Ooh this sounds fun.

Greninja gets to act on both Protean and Battle Bond. This makes it much easier to activate Ash Greninja with the STAB boost coming in from all attacks. Assuming that it loses Torrent and Protean once turning into Ash Gren, it’s a minor loss. You still have Ash Gren on your team so no one is gonna consider that a loss.

To expand off form changes, I’d imagine Mega Pokémon won’t have access to the abilities of their base form. Still, you’d probably still end up using a mega on your team. If that isn’t the case, Charizard Y, Sableye, Audino, Mawile, Slowbro, and kind of Pinsir and Gyarados would appreciate that. Still I doubt they would retain their changes. As I understand, Darmanitan, one changed into Zen Mode, loses Sheer Force. This leads me to believe that Megas are the same as they would be in a regular format.

Serperior getting Overgrow isn’t a huge buff. But being in Overgrow makes your +6 Leaf Storm a bit stronger. Strong enough to give you a 60% chance to 2HKO 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran after rocks.

 

[typhlosion787]

Ooh this sounds fun.

Greninja gets to act on both Protean and Battle Bond. This makes it much easier to activate Ash Greninja with the STAB boost coming in from all attacks. Assuming that it loses Torrent and Protean once turning into Ash Gren, it’s a minor loss. You still have Ash Gren on your team so no one is gonna consider that a loss.

To expand off form changes, I’d imagine Mega Pokémon won’t have access to the abilities of their base form. Still, you’d probably still end up using a mega on your team. If that isn’t the case, Charizard Y, Sableye, Audino, Mawile, Slowbro, and kind of Pinsir and Gyarados would appreciate that. Still I doubt they would retain their changes. As I understand, Darmanitan, one changed into Zen Mode, loses Sheer Force. This leads me to believe that Megas are the same as they would be in a regular format.

Alolan Persian could be a decent on a Beat Up central team. It having Fur Coat and Rattled and a Weakness Policy could makes it easy to switch into a U-Turn and hit everything with a Technician-boosted Beat Up. Gimmicky, but I can easily imagine a ladder team running this.

Serperior getting Overgrow isn’t a huge buff. But being in Overgrow makes your +6 Leaf Storm a bit stronger. Strong enough to give you a 60% chance to 2HKO Heatran after rocks.

Actually, for Greninja, since Battle Bond is an event only move, you have to choose between Protean+Torrent or Battle Bond. Still will be scary af, though. And yeah, megas, just like in gen 7 pokebilities, don't have the abilities of their base forms. Alolan Persian probably would be similar to Bibarel in the fact that it seems interesting, but is pretty bad. Serperior getting Overgrow with Contrary is actually quite nice. Fun fact, Miracle Seed Boosted +6 Leaf Storm in Grassy Terrain KOs a max SpDef Calm Blissey from full health. Quite crazy

 

[typhlosion787]

Want to ask the community a few questions on certain pokemon? What are your thoughts on Clef and Hippo specifically in the meta. For Clef, I think on a base level, it is fine, but once set up, can be extremely infuriating. Hippo, on the other hand, I feel has fallen off quite a bit. A free Life Orb with no recoil from Sand Force is amazing along with it's general bulk and ability to spread residual damage through things like Toxic, Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, and Sand. However, it has become a very similar situation to base SS OU where Lando T largely outclasses it in every way except for the fact that Lando doesn't have any reliable recovery. Even with Hippo having much more power with Sand Force, it simply doesn't compare to Lando's power or simple sheer versatility. Lando is so variable and can be so different on every team you see from Bandorus and Scarf, Leftovers and Rocky Helmet, even Focus Sash lead on HO. Even different EV spreads for many of it's sets. Hippo simply doesn't have the same versatility. Hippo has PhysDef and SpDef for it's sets and only really runsn6 moves in Earthquake, Toxic, Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, Slack Off, and Stone Edge. Lando can run Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, Toxic, U-Turn, Knock Off, Superpower, Explosion, and even more. Along with that, Lando has its amazing Intimidate ability in tandem with its absolutely phenomenal stats all around, just simply making it to where if you play Lando wisely, it gets a ton of free Leftovers recovery or Rocky Helmet chip. I love Hippo, but without Drill or Zolt, TTar is a much better sand setter in several ways and Lando is a much better bulky ground. Not bad by any means, but significantly worse than it was before.

 

[typhlosion787]

Ok, going to make a suggestion for three pokemon to be added to the VR and suggest ranks. Those suggestions will be Miltank, Quagsire, and Lanturn. All have, at minimum, a niche in the metagame with large usage on either the casual or more competitive side of the meta.

First, Miltank. One interesting thing to mention is that Miltank is one of only 3 pokemon that doesn't get 2HKOd by Alolawak's stab combination and most of its common coverage, which is already massive when Alolawak is the biggest wallbreaker with Conk and Zolt gone. I've yet to do the calcs for Low Kick, but being able to just resist one stab and be immune to the other is massive. That's not even Miltank's only good quality as its similar to a physically defensive Chansey without Eviolite, just with much less HP in trade for more speed and attack. With its combination of abilities, Miltank has two resistances in fire and ice thanks to Thick Fat, two immunities in ghost and grass, grass because of Sap Sipper, and can even hit ghost types with its Body Slams thanks to Scrappy. Extremely utility heavy with a ton of coverage as well. Heal Bell, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Stealth Rock. On the attacking spectrum, its strength is surprisingly OK for a stall pokemon just throwing out its stab, but it also gets moves like the elemental punches, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Zen Headbutt, Play Rough, Body Press, and even Curse if you want setup pokemon. To be fair, Miltank is mainly going to be used as a physical wall, but just having the option is still nice. If you're stalling and want more consistent damage compared to Body Slam, there's Seismic Toss for a guaranteed hundred damage every hit. Personally, I'd put Miltank around the middle of C tier.

Continuing, Lanturn isn't the best, but it's quite solid. Being immune to and even healing from two of the most common attacking types in the game. Yes, its stats other than HP are abysmal, but the HP alone makes it surprisingly bulky. Of course, Scald and Volt Switch are amazing stab moves, one having a ton of utility and ability to pressure the other team and the other giving the user momentum, which also applies pressure to the opponent's team. Lanturn gets other useful moves to support its team as well, such as Heal Bell, Toxic, and Thunder Wave plus some nice coverage in Ice Beam and Dazzling Gleam to deal a small amount of chip damage. While I did say it's surprisingly bulky, Lanturn isn't the most resiliant thing ever. It can take one or two, maybe three hits, but it's easy to wear Lanturn down with hazards, status, and chip damage. For example, a Magnezone predicting your Corviknight has Shed Shell and using Body Press to predict the switch into Lanturn. What seemed like free healing turned into taking a fair amount of chip, and it's difficult to regain the lost HP because Lanturn has no reliable recovery. While sometimes it does get free turns, you also have to be conservative with how much you throw it out to absorb a hit because one prediction can mean a major pokemon on your team is down. Difficult to use properly, and when used properly, it's fine, but not much more. Probably low C or high D tier.

Rounding it out, Quagsire. Quagsire can be a decent stop to a fair amount of suicide leads thanks to Damp, something that only one viable pokemon, Jellicent, shares with it. Of course, Water Absorb gives it healing from water type moves, but the larger draw is definitely Unaware. Quagsire isn't the only Unaware pokemon in the meta as Clefable, the literal best pokemon in the meta, has Unaware too. Clefable, however, performs a much different role and actually partners with Quag really well. Quag is the only Unaware pokemon that gets Haze, not only hindering one's ability to run through a team because they can't boost through Quag, but also making it harder for them to boost through the rest of the team while repeatedly having to reset the setup process. A few other notable utility moves Quag gets are Toxic, Encore, and Yawn. Unlike Lanturn, Quagsire does have reliable recovery with recover, increasing its longevity despite its worse HP. Quagsire also has a natural electric immunity, meaning that even Mold Breaker won't make electric type moves effective like they would against Lanturn. Scald is just as good as on Lanturn, even if only used for the burn, and Earthquake is simply just a reliable stab move as it always has been. If I had to rank Quagsire, I'd put it in low B tier.

 

[typhlosion787]

One thing I've noticed recently is Toxtricity having great potential to break defensive cores. I did a lot of calcs, including pokemon not on the VR, gave them full SpDef and HP investment with a +SpDef nature, and here are all the pokemon that get 2HKOd by a Scarf Timid Toxtricity: Clefable, Corviknight, Kanto Slowbro, Kanto Weezing, Galar Weezing, Galar Slowbro, Johto Slowking, Tangrowth, Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Milotic (without Boots), Xatu, Eldegoss (without Assault Vest), Celesteela

already a hefty list that gets even larger when you take into account the many more pokemon added to the list without the SpDef investment, Leftovers, or just Toxtricity switching to another item like Life Orb or changing the nature to Modest. With stall's viability heavily shooting up, I definitely think Tox will be one of the major pokemon trying to keep the playstyle in check.

However, when strategies are found out, counterstrategies arise, and I have found perhaps the best outright counter to Toxtricity; Kommo-o. Soundproof means the only viable Tox moves that hit Kommo-o are Hex, Volt Switch, and Sludge Bomb/Wave. Then you take into account that Hex is never used by Tox because opportunity cost and it's down to three moves. That's not all, though, as Kommo-o also has Bulletproof, making it immune to Sludge Bomb and forcing Tox users to make the choice between a 30% pooison rate or 5 more base power with only a 10% poison rate, but the ability to hit Kommo-o. Toxtricity will always have its place on teams that need a mon to deal with stall, but with one pokemon simply stopping it in its tracks and turning it into Leftovers recovery, Rocks, Toxic on the incoming pokemon, or Roar to inflict residual damage from hazards, stall teams do have a great way to deal with what may be the 2nd greatest threat to the playstyle, only after Alolawak.

 

[typhlosion787]

For Sun, gets some small buffs, but none really noteworthy.

One thing in specific to note is that while pokemon like Venusaur and Charizard don't get buffed much, the combination of Leaf Guard+Chlorophyll is amazing for sun sweepers as they get the speed boost to increase their threat level and they can't be statused. That's not even taking into account Synthesis healing 66% instead of 50 in sun. Leafeon, while not as dangerous a sun sweeper as last gen due to lack of Z crystals, is still dangerous with the ability to SD and spam Leaf Blade and Knock Off. Lilligant is already scary, being able to throw off Quiver Dance boosted Petal Dances without confusion, but not being able to be paralyzed to be slown down and not getting a sweep cut short by Toxic is a huge deal. Tangrowth doesn't get much out of the combination offensively, but no Toxic really helps Tangrowth not be forced to switch against certain pokemon. Many pokemon get great sun abilities, but aren't worth it because of their stats. Pokemon like Tropius, Sunflora, and Jumpluff, for example. I could see Leafeon and Lilligant as viable specifically for offensive sun abuse, but for the most part, its better just to stick to the sun team basics: Venusaur, Charizard, Darmanitan/Entei, Torkoal, hazard removal or 2nd Chlorophyll user, and a pokemon that functions outside of weather.

 

[typhlosion787]

Personally, I never felt like Clef was overcentralizing. Sure, it's obnoxious, but it can be dealt with fairly easily. Even if it's +1, many things still 2HKO and some even OHKO, such as a Pex Venoshock if Clef is poisoned. Is Clef an issue, yes, it's role compression and variability in sets with all of it's sets being extremely threatening make it obnoxious, but not to the point where it is a necessity to scout the set like Conk to see if a mon on your team can actually check it. It's strong af, but not broken like Conk or Zolt in my opinion.

Ok, I take my statement back, even if it is too late. Not about being weaker than Conk or Zolt, but about it being overcentralizing. I always knew that Clef would be problematic, but I didn't think that it was overcentralizing for a long time. However, at the point we are at in the metagame, I do think there needs to be some sort of discussion about what to do with this, preferably before the meta comes back. I don't know if there's a discord server to discuss this or something, but I do think that it's a large enough issue to where some discourse needs to happen. I'm still not sure about banning it, but I'm getting closer to that side. Simply put, Clef has more variety in what it can do than any other mon in the meta while being frustratingly difficult to deal with in all. WishPort, CM, Cosmic, status spreader, utility mon with Knock, hazard setter, cleric, wincon, Trick mon to cripple walls, Healing Wish mon to restore other teammates, all roles Clef excels at. Unlike even Conkeldurr, no single pokemon is a reliable COUNTER, not check, to every set. Boost up and Thunderbolt for bulky waters and Heatran, Shadow Ball is a posibility for Alolawak, Ice Beam for Zapdos, Flamethrower for steels, Psychic or Stored Power for poisons, Clef has so much coverage to reliably hit every pokemon hard in some way. You can't cripple it with hazards because of Magic Guard, you can't boost up to beat it because of Unaware, and it can even be an extreme RNG factor with Cute Charm. As of now, I will abstain on saying if it should be banned or not, but I do believe there should be some discussion from the metagame's community to come to a decision on Clefable. I don't like banning every mon that takes great advantage of the metagame gimmick, but there's a point when you may have to do that because balance should be preserved. I've talked about how strong it is, but I want to hear opinions other than mine about Clef. Does the community have a strong opinion one way or the other about banning it?

 

[cheesesir]

I haven't played in a few months, so my opinion might be a bit out of date. However, I found Clef to be a good pokemon, but not overwhelming. It certainly needed to be accounted for when you were building teams, but you could easily pack a handful of pokemon to check it. (Just based on teams I currently have from when Pokebilities was OMoM, Perrseker, Toxapex, Kingdra-under-rain, and even Ludicolo and Dragapult in a pinch). I think that Clefairy might not have anything that checks all of it's sets, but only one set IMO is strong enough that it needs a dedicated check (That being the set-up+ Stored Power). Other than that, you can slowly out-damage Clef's healing, with some smart play. I think looking at Clef's place in the metagame would be good, and I'd love to see some more discussion about what other players think. However, if it comes to a vote, I think I would say don't ban.

 

[typhlosion787]

It certainly needed to be accounted for when you were building teams, but you could easily pack a handful of pokemon to check it.

That's exactly the issue imo, they're simply checking it because there's no hard counter. Like how grounds checked Zolt, but none were a true counter because even full PhysDef Impish Hippo gets 2HKOd by a banded, or even Life Orb, Outrage.how Corviknight and Hippowdon wall Conkeldurr until it reveals Thunder/Ice Punch. And while that's offensive pokemon, it doesn't just apply to offensive pokemon. Like mega Sableye in ORAS, there was no way to reliably stop it from bouncing back status, hazards, even Taunt, to a point where it made one playstyle completely overbearing. Now, I don't think Clef alone makes stall overbearing, but I do think Clef is easily the best Mon in the meta and it's lack of checks in tandem with debatably the best role compression in the series makes it something that should be discussed and cause important discourse. The discourse and discussion becomes even more important when it's an OM that's not in rotation often and the mods give the community the majority of the say and decision in balancing choices (thank you, Ivy, Kris, and Rach. Genuinely, it means a lot knowing that what I say has actual weight). As of now, I'd probably vote not to ban as well, but day by day, I'm getting closer to the side that wants Clef banned

 

[typhlosion787]

A few pokemon have gotten better in the transition from gen 7 to gen 8 in pokebilities. Many pokemon because of Heavy Duty Boots, many because of the pokemon that were removed that would outclass it (like most normal types that were outclassed by Ursaring), pokemon that had their abilities buffed (Mienshao can't be intimidated because of Scrappy), I feel that one pokemon went from a top 3 in gen 7 Mon to a top 2 Mon in gen 8... Ok, top 2 after the Mosa, Conk, and Zolt bans. That pokemon is Reuniclus. Now, while Reuniclus doesn't look any better on paper, maybe even looking worse without Z crystals to absorb Knock Off, you have to look a bit deeper to see why it's so much better despite only rising one spot from the prior generation (where it was still crazy). Look at the moves that got removed. People may think of Hidden Power, maybe Return (R.I.P. Stoutland), but what made debatably the biggest deal was Pursuit. Ghost is now one of the most common types because of the lack of Pursuit, and Reuniclus is even better in pokebilities. While it could restore some health if it lived a Pursuit when it switched out, it would still do a significant enough amount to make sure Reun can't repeatedly take hits when it comes back in. This also indirectly buffs the Future Sight set because you don't have to worry about a Pursuit user switching in when you use Future Sight and trapping you. Reun already has some of the best effective bulk in the metagame despite what may look like average defense and SpDef because of Magic Guard, then slapping on Regenerator makes it even more frustrating to break. While it's crazy movepool that consists of moves such as Knock Off, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Infestation, and Future Sight, Reuniclus was already one of the most versatile and unpredictable mons in the meta, but losing one of it's most important major weaknesses made it so much better. The only reason why it's not the best pokemon in the meta currently is because we're under the reign of Queen Clefable

 

[ezlaturbo]

Reun is a lot easier to handle though than Clefable, due to one key difference: Unaware. This leaves it vulnerable to other setup attempting to boost alongside it, and the CM Acid Armor set is still has the same flaws as it does in the base metagame, though Regen does allow it to be attempted more than once. But the same could be argued for something like, say, Slowking-Galar's crit-me-not set. Clefable is really the only one with who just can get a boost up and then sit there forever.

 

[typhlosion787]

Reun is a lot easier to handle though than Clefable, due to one key difference: Unaware. This leaves it vulnerable to other setup attempting to boost alongside it, and the CM Acid Armor set is still has the same flaws as it does in the base metagame, though Regen does allow it to be attempted more than once. But the same could be argued for something like, say, Slowking-Galar's crit-me-not set. Clefable is really the only one with who just can get a boost up and then sit there forever.

Exactly. Never going to argue against Clef being the best Mon in the meta now that Conk and Zolt are gone. I definitely don't think Reun is anywhere close to even needing a suspect test, just felt like talking about how much better it got with Pursuit gone

 

[wut]

ik this is sort of old but why is cincinno not even here?? it has decent stats and a great combo in skill link and technician
plus its cool

 

[typhlosion787]

ik this is sort of old but why is cincinno not even here?? it has decent stats and a great combo in skill link and technician
plus its cool

I agree that Cinccino should be on the VR, but probably around C tier. I made a post about it earlier in this 10 page thread discussing it's strengths and many weaknesses. The TL:DR of it is that while Cinccino sounds amazing on paper, it wants too many items, too many moves, and despite insane base power on its multihit moves, doesn't do as much damage as expected without items such as Choice Band or Life Orb because of it's mediocre base 95 attack. It has strengths, but it needs so much support that makes it hard to slap on many teams because it's easier to build teams without so much support going to one specific pokemon, but rather several on the same team to make the team more well rounded

 

[wut]

 

[typhlosion787]

View attachment 443086

That's why the ROM server has a bug report option. I had to do that about 8 months ago to get rid of a glitch in gen 7 pokebilities where choosing Battle Bond as the ability let one have Protean and Battle Bond. Ukerab gets the issues fixed pretty quick, though.

 

[wut]

That's why the ROM server has a bug report option. I had to do that about 8 months ago to get rid of a glitch in gen 7 pokebilities where choosing Battle Bond as the ability let one have Protean and Battle Bond. Ukerab gets the issues fixed pretty quick, though.

where it at

 

[typhlosion787]

where it at

 

[typhlosion787]

Ok, so I hear Gyara mentioned a lot, but only in terms of offensive capabilities. I thought Gyara would be fairly solid as a defensive Mon that breaks stall teams. Intimidate with base 100 SpDef and solid HP makes it surprisingly resilient. Sure, it can't take endless hits and needs support from things like Wish Clef/Blissey, but in my practice games, I've found it pretty reliable. T Wave to support offensive teammates, Taunt to prevent things like set up and status, Roar/Dragon Tail to wrack up hazard damage on mons that don't have Boots. It does all of this while still maintaining an ability to do decent damage and still set up each time it gets a kill with Waterfall. It's coverage is also great if you're fine with dropping Roar or Thunder Wave for something like Power Whip, Earthquake, Ice Fang, or Crunch. Another set I've experimented is RestTalk on a team with Aromatherapy Clefable. Not great because of forced sleep and being forced to Aromatherapy giving your opponent multiple free turns, but it's surprisingly bulky if used properly. Overall, I do think sets like DD 3 attacks or the Choiced all out attacking sets are better, but defensive Gyara definitely has a place in the meta, even if extremely niche

 

[cheesesir]

Defensive Gyarados is not something I would have thought of, but it feels like it would need a lot of team support. I wonder if Salamence could fill a similar role while also having defog/wish/roost for more team support. You do lose out on T-wave and Taunt, but have overall similar bulk, the same abilities, and more reliable recovery. In my opinion, Gyarados is better suited to being an offensive mon, but stallbreaker has potential.

 

[typhlosion787]

Did some calcs recently because I wanted to see what could threaten Clef and I found two key things that I thought were pretty important. First, Clef only needs max HP EVs and 12 SpDef EVs to guaranteed always survive two Specs Dragapult Shadow Balls without crits. Second, a Bold nature and 72 defense EVs with max HP EVs makes Clef guaranteed survive an Alolawak Flare Blitz without crits. I have been doing a bit more calcing for EVs on my pokemon (because I continue to build teams and have like 50 ones since March), and since Clef is the best Mon, thought any information related to EV spread that help it take certain hits would be major development

 

[typhlosion787]

Because Pokebilities got top 10 from the community in the OMotM nominations and is in the voting phase, I thought I'd make a team and try to return to the meta once more as it's my favorite meta. Didn't just want to do any random stall, balance, or weather, though, so I decided to make a terrain team. As always, open to criticisms and suggestions on how to make the team better

Terrain Team

Clef is a required edition on every team style except Trick Room and hyperoffense, so it's more about figuring out the rest of your team first and figuring out the role you want Clef to play. I knew I had no hazard setter or Knock user, so I decided to do just that. The 12 SpDef EVs allow Clef to always avoid the 2HKO from Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball barring a crit and the rest is invested into physical defense to take as many hits as possible.

Corviknight was my decision for hazard control, mostly for the fact that it forces Lando T to switch unless it's SD+Stone Edge/Superpower or it has Knock Off. Originally, it was Rocky Helmet max speed EVs with an Impish nature, but I ended up really wanting Corv to be able to slow U-Turn on Clef and not be trapped by Magnezone, so I went Relaxed to underspeed uninvested base 60s and 30 IVs to underspeed other Relaxed Corvs in worst case senarios and replaced Helmet with Shed Shell to still be able to get away from Zone. Decided on Defog over Brave Bird because I didn't want to run Boots on Koko so I could run Terrain Extender or on Raichu A so I could run a power boosting item. EVs are the basic smogon suggested, which, according to the summary, allows Corv to avoid a 2HKO from terrain boosted Specs Lele Psychic after Rocks and avoid a 2HKO without Rocks from Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball. I had U-Turn over Brave Bird because I wanted a few pokemon to get momentum and open areas for Raichu A to rip holes in teams.

Koko is obviously the setter. While Geezing is the better Hawlucha supporter because it blocks status, I wanted to use Raichu A, so Koko was the obvious choice. Roost to stave off repeated hazards without Boots (because I wanted max terrain turns). Obligatory stabs and U-Turn are obvious. Basic EV spread to still threaten big hits so I'm not completely reliant on my two terrain abusers to deal meaningful damage.

Alolan Raichu started off as a Plot sweeper, but after testing, I found it didn't get many opportunities to set up and that I needed a mon to punch holes with the terrain support. Along with that, Raichu A already suffers from 4MSS. I decided after testing to go with Modest and Expert Belt over Specs so Lando doesn't have a riskless switch into Raichu after a Rising Voltage. Grass Knot to hit Quagsire, Gastrodon, Seismetoad, Tyranitar, Gigalith, and Hippowdon, Surf for Lando, Rising Voltage to be able to do massive damage, and Volt Switch for nice momentum.

Hawlucha is the basic wincon. Ignores Unaware on Clef and Quag with Mold Breaker, can't be paralyzed by Zapdos because of Limber, and still keeps Unburden. Went with the suggested smogon spread, although I'm not really sure what it does. I was debating other moves like Drain Punch, Sub, Taunt, and Roost, but I decided that it's still nice not to be walled by Zapdos, even if I can't be paralyzed by it.

Dragapult is the regular "offensive mon that functions outside of weather/speed control/terrain" selection. I already had both electric and water coverage on Raichu, so I went with Flamethrower to hit Scizor and Ferrothorn instead of Thunder or Hydro Pump. All other moves are self explanatory. Functions really well as a backup cleaner if Hawlucha isn't successful in its sweeping efforts while simultaneously being able to function as a wallbreaker to soften threats for Hawlucha in a similar vein to Raichu .

I think this is one of the better teams I've made, but feel free to make any suggestions. The one thing I don't really like is no bulky ground type, but I'm not really sure if I can give up any mons to fit a bulky ground since every team member is essential to how the team functions.