Heracross' premega ability seemed to be skill link in a gen 6 random battle. This is quite important as Heracross has 2 useful premega abilities it may want to use before clicking the megastone (Moxie/guts). This shouldnt be a big issue, but I feel it's important because it impedes the user atm.
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Format Discussion Past Gens Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter A Cake Wearing A Hat
- Start date
This is an issue all around for Megas in Gen 6. Will be fixed when Annika gets the chance to fix it
Just had a gen 7 Mega Pinsir with no Aerilate STAB other than a Quick Attack. Not giving strong STAB to -ate pokemons seems very questionable. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7randombattle-1549399684
Also I have seen dedicated revenge killers like Dugtrio and Mimikyu with substitute/leftovers. Maybe there is some sense in stalling out some turns with these pokemons, but that is extremely rare in random battles meta.
This will go ignored because Irpachuza thinks all this makes no sense but will leave it here regardless for others.
Also I have seen dedicated revenge killers like Dugtrio and Mimikyu with substitute/leftovers. Maybe there is some sense in stalling out some turns with these pokemons, but that is extremely rare in random battles meta.
This will go ignored because Irpachuza thinks all this makes no sense but will leave it here regardless for others.
You were already answered by proven gen 7 randbats players (not me) about why having 1/5 of the sets rolling quick attack + SD + coverage was fairly good and absolutely acceptable.
Please provide screenshots of mimikyu, and better if it's a replay, because it shouldn't be rolling leftovers (and /setodds can't find it either). Sub + SR dugtrio is fine having leftovers. LO + substitute is undesirable on a format without min maxed EVs.
You can leave it here, but I'd prefer if you'd be respectful when complaining, as we prepare and work on the randomized formats for free, so no need to come to the room and be witty and rude with everyone that don't agree with you.
I did not record that Mimikyu unfortunately. This one was several weeks ago, and may have been fixed now.
You could say I chatted in a blunt, rude manner in the heat of the moment, but I also made every point with concrete arguments and examples. Telling people they make 'no sense' only incites them, instead you should just tell people to calm down and respond with concrete counter-arguments.
As I mentioned in chat, I don't like the direction you are taking with gen 7 movesets (general focus on 'diversity' over practical, THAT Gothitelle, etc.). It doesn't seem like that will change, so instead of getting into heated arguments, I will just stop playing the format.
But this still bugs me (pun not intended), so I'm going to elaborate with numbers why I think {CC, EQ, Quick Attack} is bad before dropping the topic.
- Fighting+Ground is much worse than Flying+Fighting or Flying+Ground as an attack type combination. Fighting+Ground gets walled by almost any mons with Flying type or Levitate. On the other hand, Flying+Fighting (e.g. Hawlucha) and Flying+Ground (e.g. dmax/Z Landorus-T) are infamously good combinations.
- Quick Attack is not good enough vs many bulky grass/fighting/bug mons Mega Pinsir is supposed to counter. To give some examples:
- Aerilate Return is obscenely strong against neutral targets and the main reason why Mega Pinsir is a threatening wallbreaker. Against slower teams or with Sticky Web, Mega Pinsir can often sweep after SD. To give random examples:
As a power maniatic that i'm, i agree partially on this, it sucks that u got a mon that is supposed to be the one that can easily ko annoying bulky mons, but sometimes u'll appreciate having quick attack as a revenge kill mon (yeah still they can have extreme speed/other priorities), still personally doesn't compesates too much not having return bc u can roll a team of mons that can`t deal huge damage or those ones that depends on a move to work (and if the failed f) and it sucks that u can't do anything than see how ur moves deals like no damage while ur opo will boost or just attack u (and considering that m pinsir spdef u wouldn't like to see it getting attacked. I'll always prefer a powerful return than a fast quick attack but i can understand why some people don't.
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Gen 3 scizor running steel wing over hp steel. Sure there is that 10% chance for a miniscule defense boost. But not only will that not mean anything in the end, as scizor has a good defense stat already making it redundant, and in general only really fears fire type moves which are special. FURTHERMORE, the 10% accuracy drop is a HUGE disadvantage. I've legitamately lost games from it missing. unlike with overheat vs fireblast where there is an obvious and worthwhile tradeoff of 25 base attack points GUARANTEED every time you use overheat over fireblast, this is a 10% chance of a defense boost. you suffer a 10% loss to accuracy each time you use it and only get a reward 10% of the time! a much better option would be to just run hp steel (unless the set is already running a different hp, only in that case should steel wing be used because it provides better coverage)
that means less chances for hp rock and ground to appear so NO.
Currently, Rayquaza does not have Dragon Ascent in Gen 6 or 7. I assume this is due to policy reasons rather than set viability, but in case there's any doubt: Dragon Ascent is a fantastic move for Rayquaza. Most notably it would nuke Fairies with the same BP as V-Create without the Speed drop of V-Create, as well as being the same power as Outrage without the lock and confusion. It would also let Rayquaza be a more effective sweeper by punching past bulky Fighting types such as Chesnaught (though Chesnaught isn't doing much anyway) and Throh. In short, Dragon Ascent is great.
I vaguely remember bringing this up in the staff discord somewhere in 2019, and the discussion was indeterminate. A staff member confirmed earlier today that this is still the status. The policy objection is that Rayquaza would be able to Mega Evolve to an AG pokemon, which would violate the system of Gen 6 and 7 Random Battles that follow the Smogon tiering system. However, just as with 3 years ago, this is not true. In Gen 7 Ubers, Mega Rayquaza Clause exists to allow use of Dragon Ascent but disallow Mega Evolution. Adding Mega Rayquaza Clause to Randbats is trivial (I speedran it from a blank browser page in 15 seconds) and completely consistent with how the rest of Randbats sets are created.
If there is no viability argument and the policy argument is nullified, why not add Dragon Ascent to Rayquaza? I am bringing this discussion to the public to settle the Rayquaza question once and for all.
I vaguely remember bringing this up in the staff discord somewhere in 2019, and the discussion was indeterminate. A staff member confirmed earlier today that this is still the status. The policy objection is that Rayquaza would be able to Mega Evolve to an AG pokemon, which would violate the system of Gen 6 and 7 Random Battles that follow the Smogon tiering system. However, just as with 3 years ago, this is not true. In Gen 7 Ubers, Mega Rayquaza Clause exists to allow use of Dragon Ascent but disallow Mega Evolution. Adding Mega Rayquaza Clause to Randbats is trivial (I speedran it from a blank browser page in 15 seconds) and completely consistent with how the rest of Randbats sets are created.
If there is no viability argument and the policy argument is nullified, why not add Dragon Ascent to Rayquaza? I am bringing this discussion to the public to settle the Rayquaza question once and for all.
Not the worst set but baton pass isn't the greatest without set up moves for a fast mon like espeon. Should always be reflect or calm mind imo.
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I have proposed the following before unofficially, but I am posting here because I think it should be implemented.
pregen8 hazards are game defining and are more threatening in randombattles than they are in regular formats. This is mostly due to lack of constant hazard removal as upposed to regular formats where almost all team carries it.
I propose that if you roll a monster with the ability to roll hazard removal move and none of your previous monsters have them in its generated move set, it should be forced to roll defog/rapid spin.
pregen8 hazards are game defining and are more threatening in randombattles than they are in regular formats. This is mostly due to lack of constant hazard removal as upposed to regular formats where almost all team carries it.
I propose that if you roll a monster with the ability to roll hazard removal move and none of your previous monsters have them in its generated move set, it should be forced to roll defog/rapid spin.
https://i.gyazo.com/003d5ee1084711d926388eb25b303dc9.png
As you can see in the pic, tangela is meant to have stun spore and growth as a combo and mega drain as essential.
We discussed this in RBY community and i think most of us agree that tangela would benefict the most having sleep power as essential and also stun spore if its possible. For some reason we dont know stun spore gets rejected and would be really good this not to happen D:
I proposse this: Sleep powder as mandatory, high chances of rolling stun spore and low chances of rolling bs+mega drain+growth. Remove sd since there are several mons with greater attack stats who really benefict from sd like bulbasaur and bellsprout and evos who also doesnt need growth at all bc they have razor leaf
As you can see in the pic, tangela is meant to have stun spore and growth as a combo and mega drain as essential.
We discussed this in RBY community and i think most of us agree that tangela would benefict the most having sleep power as essential and also stun spore if its possible. For some reason we dont know stun spore gets rejected and would be really good this not to happen D:
I proposse this: Sleep powder as mandatory, high chances of rolling stun spore and low chances of rolling bs+mega drain+growth. Remove sd since there are several mons with greater attack stats who really benefict from sd like bulbasaur and bellsprout and evos who also doesnt need growth at all bc they have razor leaf
Wouldn't it be better to force Quiver Dance on Butterfree since it's pretty useless without it (Gen 6)
Also VSwitch-less Scarf Mow?
It is essentially impossible to force Quiver Dance on Butterfree. We could make Butterfree consider Quiver Dance to be a STAB move, but then it would often generate without Bug Buzz. Or we could remove one of Psychic / Energy Ball / Sleep Powder and have it only have 4 moves, but that's both against policy and would honestly be a net loss for the utility of Butterfree because the opponent would immediately know they can switch in a given counter to whatever 4 moves Butterfree would always have. That set isn't horrible, it's still an above average speed high accuracy sleeper, and with Tinted Lens it can do decent damage if you bring it in against the right opponent.
This is a nice set. Volt Switch is also nice on it, but for a scarfer I'd honestly prefer to have raw damage output since it falls into more of a revenge killer role. Either way, there'd also be no way to force Volt Switch on Rotom-Mow.
Hi. Gligar in gen6 BF has hypercutter instead of immunity. Now I am only a humble CAP player but I know when an ability is bad. Right Wigglytuff ?
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/gligar/
Hyper Cutter is used alongside Defog, as Immunity is incompatible with it. If running Stealth Rock, Immunity is the preferred ability, as it allows Gligar to be a Toxic absorber in certain instances.
@pokeblade☆101: maybe the ivs should be adjusted though cuz hp dark isnt useful and ditto copies the stats anyway
He brings up a good point that i also bring up. HP Dark ditto is booty !
Wigglytuff A Cake Wearing A Hat
He brings up a good point that i also bring up. HP Dark ditto is booty !
Wigglytuff A Cake Wearing A Hat
in what format ._.
gen 6 is where i ran into the mishap. but I am sure it would apply for gen 7 as well
is there any reason why gen 6 cloyster with shell smash can be without icicle spear? i had rock blast/hydro/ss/ice shard earlier and was just wondering why this was... would rather have rock blast replaced with icicle spear if shard had to be kept
This is an issue with how STAB is enforced in general; STAB enforcement in this case was checking for three things: "does it have one stab move that's actually powerful", "does it have a water move", and "does it have an ice move". Ice shard, to the algorithm, qualified as an ice move, so it didn't feel the need to mess with the set any more. The only real solution to this is removing ice shard, which I'm not against.
yeah icicle spear is better in like 90% of scenarios and cloyster is so weak to begin with that if it's not shell smash ice shard is pretty bad priority on it, doesnt hit very hard at all
Last week I got a Gen 6 team led by Rain Dance + Lightning Rod Seaking. I didn't take a screenshot because I assumed this was a known set, but now that I realize the move was only added very recently, I believe this may have been an oversight. The move has little use without Swift Swim. After checking the code, my understanding is that Poliwrath and Seismitoad don't have this problem because the presence of Rain Dance eliminates their alternate ability, Water Absorb. I suggest something similar be implemented for Lightning Rod, which is currently only rejected by Ground types. Thanks for your time.