Palafin & Iron Bundle Rain

Hello again everyone,

Generation nine has been off to an interesting (and somewhat controversial) start, and all in less than a week no less.
My forum presence so far has been minimal apart from my vote in the SS OU Melmetal suspect test and my recent SS OU essay-of-an-RMT I made as a goodbye to generation eight, and I have often taken many months breaks between my stints on Showdown! However, with this new generation and going forth, I hope to have more of a presence on this site (both Showdown! and Smogon) and I look forward to experiencing this metagame with all of you and contributing to it in some lasting way. With that being said, let's get on to this RMT (which I promise will be much shorter than my last).

The new games have brought a lot of changes to the meta, for both good and bad. And the tiering council have certainly had their hands full with discussions, decisions, and enactments. Among these are the likelihood of bans for both :Palafin-Hero: and :Iron Bundle:, two of the strongest pokémon in the meta right now (especially now that :Flutter Mane: and :Houndstone: have already been banned). Aside from some initial testing in the first few hours after Showdown! updated with the new mons, the team I have been solely laddering with utilizes both :Palafin-Hero: and :Iron Bundle:; I present that to you now.

The team:
:sv/Iron Bundle: :bw/Pelipper: :sv/Palafin-Hero: :sv/Clodsire:
:sv/Dondozo:

https://pokepast.es/b92b8ef6e4619880
Annotation 2022-11-23 210046.png
Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Substitute
- Agility

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost

Palafin @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wave Crash
- Close Combat
- Jet Punch

Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog

Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Rest

I originally made this team to use and abuse tailwind, as I was quite excited for the new wind abilities. This was the team: https://pokepast.es/e1dd10fb79ac4d24
Unfortunately once the pokémon were available on Showdown! I had the horrible discovery that neither ability work when the pokémon switches in while Tailwind is active (from the leaks it had seemed, or perhaps had made me hope, it would work). I still think the pokémon are somewhat viable, and will perhaps become moreso once the meta changes (with Home and potential DLCs). As the team now is different I will speak about the differences last.

The team is clearly a Rain team; as such Pelipper is a must.
Palafin is perhaps the star of the team; an incredibly powerful wallbreaker in Hero form and even more so with the power boost Rain provides to water moves.
Clodsire is a special tank, a necessity both now and before Flutter Mane was banned.
Corviknight is the physical tank, another necessity with all the Paradox and other powerful pokémon around.
Additionally, with the many sweepers that Corviknight can't take out, Dondozo provides additionally physical defence support.
Lastly, to replace Kilowattrel, Iron Bundle provides the special offence and sweeping capability the rest of the team lacks.

This is my no means an incredibly balanced team, with many checks that need to be approached with caution and tact, and is not very easy to use either.
With that being said, here are the sets and explanations thereof.






:bw/Pelipper:
1669281020778.png

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost


:Pelipper: is of course the Rain setter, with Drizzle as its ability. As such I gave it Damp Rock to extend the weather. I don't actually see this as a necessity as :Palafin-Hero: seems to be coming up against more checks and counters as of late, such as :Amoonguss:, :Breloom:, and Water Absorb :Clodsire:, and that frankly the rest of the team doesn't really abuse Rain to a great degree (though they do appreciate it).

:Pelipper: never sees use of its Tera as it has a niche defensive role to begin with (mostly pokémon like :Great Tusk:, :Palafin-Hero:, and some defencive mons), and doesn't really face situations that warrant using up the team's only tera just to take an
Electric
attack.

EVs and Nature (Bold) are allocated almost entirely in HP and Def so as to maximize physical bulk. Pretty standard stuff. The remaining 8 are put in SpA just to give those errant few calcs a bit better odds. I didn't put 4 in Spe because I didn't see the need to outspeed other uninvested base 65s; though perhaps it may be useful to do so, or to remove an IV to get a slower pivot out from them.

As for moves, U-Turn allows :Pelipper: to function as a pivot. Surf is :Pelipper:'s strongest
Water
move aside from Hydro Pump (yes, :Pelipper: does not learn Weather Ball (or Scald for that matter)). Hurricane is of course a strong STAB move that's useful for hitting
Grass
pokémon as well as others. And lastly Roost is for recovery; useful in those defencive situations I mentioned.




:sv/Palafin-Hero:
1669265134911.png

Palafin @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wave Crash
- Close Combat
- Jet Punch


:Palafin-Hero: is most notorious for his awesome (I mean that literally) Attack stat. With access to ample priority, and decent bulk and speed, I opted to give him a Choice band and an Adamant nature to maximize his Attack into something truly awful (again, meant literally). After Nature and Band, :Palafin-Hero:'s real Attack stat sits at a horrifying 690; and that is not even discussing his moves.

As for Tera,
Fighting
allows :Palafin-Hero: to lose any weaknesses it had as
Water
and gain an additional STAB option. Some instances where this is useful defencively include versus :Iron Bundle:, versus Sucker Punch users such as :Kingambit:, and versus
Grass
or Tera-
Grass
pokémon.

Jet Punch is a great priority move :Palafin-Hero: appreciates, especially being quite slow compared to the rest of the tier (Also useful for outspeeding :Grimmsnarl:'s Prankster Reflect). Flip Turn allows much-needed pivot capability (especially for a Choiced set), and Wave Crash is to let :Palafin-Hero: really dish out damage when he needs to. Close Combat is a great move to provide neutral or super-effective coverage where
Water
is walled. Barring Rain, Close Combat will do equal damage as Wave Crash but without the recoil. A non-STAB CC plus a STAB one can KO :Corviknight:, and STAB CC does something between 40 and 65 percent to most :Clodsire:.




:sv/Clodsire:
1669266453348.png

Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover


:Clodsire: is a very cute and effective special wall. Typically Unaware pokémon are resigned to mediocre stats (see :Clefable: and :Quagsire:), but with 130 HP and 100 SpD and a good typing, :Clodsire: is very capable at what he needs to do.

Now I don't run Unaware as :Clodsire:'s ability. I tried it for a little while but the ability to lose a weakness is huge. One reason why Water Absorb mons are so good is that it usually turns a neutral hit into an immunity. Or Levitate on an a pokémon that would otherwise be weak to
Ground
.

Leftovers for passive recovery, and EVs to maximize Special bulk. The Tera type was a holdover from :Flutter Mane: but I put because I figured SpD
Fire
would be a good defencive type for this meta. I haven't used it at all either so feel free to use something different and/or more useful. Just in case though, I recommend not using Black Sludge on the off chance of using Tera.

As for moves, Stealth Rock is of course good and fits nowhere else on the team. Toxic is nice for mons like :Dragonite: before they set up, or against a Special attacker that you don't have enough Recover PP to stall out. Earthquake as strong stab and is necessary to damage said attackers or at least break through a Substitute. And lastly of course Recover because of course.

Very weak to physical attacks of course, even opposing :Clodsire:. Perhaps it may be helpful to put 4 EVs into Speed just for this match up.





1669269456748.png

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog


:Corviknight: is the ever-popular (and for good reason) physical wall (though I love his special set). :Corviknight: has great typing with decent abilities and stats, and a movepool that leaves nothing more to be desired.

Boots is hardly a necessity with :Corviknight: (just as was the case with :Landorus-Therian:), and Rocky Helmet is great to punish most physical attackers, especially pivots (and makes any match-up with :Maushold: a 6v5).

Mirror Armor is great for avoiding defence drops from Crunches and Shadow Balls, and Tera
Dragon
is if you need to resist
Electric
,
Fire
, or
Water
attacks. Though often :Corviknight: needs to live
Ice
attacks, so there may be a better type. I rarely if ever Tera :Corviknight:, so take from that what you will. I find that with most purely defencive pokémon, save say :Garganacl: and :Wo-Chien:, that Tera is better suited for more offencive pokémon.

As for EVs, max Def and a magic HP; the Speed was just a benchmark I utilized in gen 8 (don't ask me what it was for), and the remaining 4 into SpD. Impish for Def.
U-Turn once again for pivoting, Roost for recovery, and Defog for dealing with hazards (if annoying :Gholdengo: will let you). On the original team I had Tailwind in place of Body Press, and it isn't unhelpful for giving :Palafin-Hero: and :Iron Bundle: Speed boosts, but Body Press can be quite helpful versus pokemon like :Chien-Pao: or :Roaring Moon: instead of having to go fully on the defencive or hope U-Turn does enough damage.




:sv/dondozo:
1669270829955.png

Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Rest


To continue the topic of Unaware mons, they are incredibly useful as they ignore most set-up sweepers (and these are especially common right now). Most of the set-up sweepers currently are physical attackers, what :Dondozo:'s stat distribution makes him most suited to counter. I went on for paragraphs in my last RMT on the sheer physical bulk of :Suicune: (146k); meanwhile, having the third-highest HP of any water type and 11th highest Def, :Dondozo: checks in with a physical bulk at an impressive 182k, the second highest after :Slowbro-Mega: (who has about 9% more). (And in contrast, :Dondozo:'s special bulk is about 8.5% higher than :Slowbro-Mega:'s; nothing impressive, but he can still live a decent hit or two.) All-in-all he is very bulky, able to take a physical hit from even the biggest threats. Something like Crunch from a Banded :Chien-Pao: does about 40% or so.

:Dondozo: was given Leftovers for passive recovery and maximization of his HP. The EVs maximize his Def and HP as well, with the few extra in SpD. Nature too, like :Corviknight:. Tera
Dragon
on :Dondozo: is probably the most useful among the defencive pokémon on this team (only :Iron Bundle: and :Palafin-Hero: see more use of theirs); it maintains his resistances to
Fire
and
Water
, while covering his weaknesses of
Grass
and
Electric
. Sure, changing
Ice
from a resist to a weakness and adding 2 more isn't perfect but I find it considerably useful. :Dondozo: can also change to his Tera type to avoid the extra chip damage from Salt Cure (type change must be before the move hits, not during the effect, in order to reduce the damage, as far as my testing demonstrated. Update: according to this post, this may not be the case!).

:Dondozo: has a very limited Status moveset, and a decently large Physical one. For a pokemon with a maximized Defence stat, Body Press is always a good option. Having at least two attacks on every mon is always good, and STAB is even better. For a water move :Dondozo: does get Liquidation, but its only 85 base power and the defence drop is not helpful for him because of his ability. Wave Crash at 120 base power is appealing, though some may be put off by the recoil. However, for a pokemon with such high HP, the recoil is actually quite minimal unless it is doing massive damage to a bulky opponent. And the extra damage Wave Crash provides is noteworthy; especially in Rain. Between that and :Dondozo:'s decent base 100 Attack, it can definitely hold its own; Wave Crash easily OHKO-ing :Chi-Yu: (just barely survives Body Press), does about half to :Gholdengo:, :Iron Valiant:, and SpD :Ting-Lu:, and more so to :Great Tusks: and :Iron Treads: to name a few. Body Press has even better coverage, easily countering :Chien-Pao:, :Roaring Moon:, and :Kingambit:. As for match-ups, perhaps most importantly is :Dondozo:'s ability to 1v1 Taunt / Bulk Up :Palafin-Hero:; if he does Taunt you, you simply spam Body Press (or Wave Crash if he Teras into a
Water
-resistant type). The :Dondozo: does outperforms that of :Palafin-Hero: and gets the KO first, even including the recovery it gets off of Drain Punch. Rest is for reliable recovery, my signature perhaps. And Yawn is a great option for forcing a switch or getting an opportunity to bring in a breaker/sweeper.




:sv/Iron Bundle:
1669278051995.png

Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Substitute
- Agility


:Iron Bundle: is the designated special attacker and sweeper for the team. Before :Flutter Mane: was even on Finchinator's radar I was advocating for a look into :Iron Bundle:. Not that I won't use it myself in the meantime ;)

:Iron Bundle: has the fastest attack of all the mons added this generation, and is tied with :Barraskewda: as the third-fastest mon in the current dex (after :Electrode:, then :Dragapult:), 1 base point (or 3 real) faster than :Flutter Mane: and :Chien Pao:. While it's only real
Water
move comes in the form of the 80% accurate Hydro Pump, because of :Iron Bundle:'s 124 base SpA stat, when it hits, it hits hard. :Iron Bundle: also gets access to Freeze-Dry, which when coupled with Hydro Pump has better coverage than BoltBeam. There is not a single pokémon in the dex that resists both
Water
and Freeze-Dry. In the national dex, only :Dewgong: and :Walrein: with their Thick Fat ability allow them to resist Freeze-Dry; the closest thing to this now is Thick Fat :Azumarill:, which takes neutral from Freeze-Dry and has a decent bulk. The only other mons like that are :Abomasnow:, :Baxcalibur:, :Cloyster:, and other :Iron Bundle:. Additionally, :Iron Bundle: also has a great natural Defence stat of 114, allowing it to live most Physical hits (such as a +1 Earthquake from :Dragonite: or half from a Dragon Claw at neutral). Just try not to get hit by a special attack; :Iron Bundle: is almost as bad at taking them as :Flutter Mane: is with physical moves.

Of course none of these can take much more than a single hit from the powerhouse that is :Iron Bundle:. When coupled with Booster Energy, which in this case I have give my Modest :Iron Bundle: a 1.3x (formerly 1.5x) boost to SpA, as well as Tera
Ice
for "Adaptability", :Iron Bundle: can practically sweep every other pokemon than :Blissey: and a very select other few. In fact, in Rain, Hydro Pump did at least 60% to Blissey; probably 50% or so now that Booster Energy has been nerfed. Coupled with Substitute and Agility, :Iron Bundle: has the ability to avoid status, finish off any few mons that (just barely) require two hits to faint, and outspeed the entire tier (including Scarfers). The Tera type also allows :Iron Bundle: to win mirror matches, as the opponent will go for a potential KO with Freeze-Dry while it likely does about 40-45% after Tera, and meanwhile you can guarantee an OHKO with your own Freeze-Dry. If you are able to take out any special walls or pertinent counterplay, then it may be more advantageous to run max Speed Timid, and replace the Booster Energy with Choice Specs or Heavy-Duty Boots.






Here's the full team again:
I'll have some replays (as well as proof of peak) linked below (though perhaps not until after the holiday).
Happy Thanksgiving!

:Iron Bundle: :Pelipper: :Palafin-Hero: :Clodsire: :Corviknight: :Dondozo:
https://pokepast.es/b92b8ef6e4619880
Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Substitute
- Agility

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost

Palafin @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wave Crash
- Close Combat
- Jet Punch

Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog

Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Rest



Replays (in-progress, more will be added soon):
vs. Truebeliver (1691) :Orthworm: :Gholdengo: :Garganacl: :Dondozo: :Ditto: :Arboliva:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1717316305-nra04e3p11elfl8ihlxhpy3og09m3gzpw
Good example of Iron Bundle both sweeping, and beating an opposing Iron Bundle (Ditto) by terastallizing to an Ice type. He complained of a crit but if you calc it (especially when Booster Energy was 1.5x, but I think even without), it always KOs.

vs. Tonybuffnuts (1585) :Chi-Yu: :Hatterene: :Garganacl: :Hippowdon: :Haxorus: :Houndstone:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1716729080-uz61yktkqrs5l6k3xok3z4uykbff57xpw
This replay is a good example of Iron Bundle's pure strength, dealing 95% to Water-Tera Garganacl with Freeze-Dry, as well as of the ability for the team to handle the infamous Houndstone between weather control, physical walls, and priority moves.
(Houndstone's 300BP Last Respects does almost equal to a Poltergiest from +1 Marowak-Alola; Houndstone was very gimmicky to begin with (just like Marowak-Alola) and with the new speed tiers and movepools, he can either be taken out with priority or outsped with little real issue.) Nonetheless I am fine with the move being banned, but it seems counterproductive to ban the pokémon and then have to do it all over again when Home comes out.

vs. Zero to Heroe (1503) :Chi-Yu: :Scizor: :Palafin-Hero: :Chien-Pao: :Amoonguss: :Great Tusk:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1717515028-b7uar798nqv7r5snx5fpz5p7n6210mppw
Nothing high-ladder or anything but a great example of Dondozo's offencive prowess (and Tera), as well as the team's synergy handling different threats.

vs. Landzard (1455) :Skeledirge: :Quagsire: :Palafin-Hero: :Amoonguss: :Flutter Mane: :Great Tusk:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1716502648-m5x7b1jt3yzjq7lfpe055covm0ialh6pw
Again, not a high-ladder replay (I didn't save too many, unfortunately), but nontheless shows how Iron Bundle can essentially turn a 6v6 into a 5v3 at the start (or sweep from mid game). This also contains a good demonstration of Dondozo out-performing Bulk Up / Taunt Palafin-Hero (though he didn't spam Drain Punch the whole time for some unknown reason, you can understand the direction it was heading, as well as how Clodsire handles Substitute / Calm Mind Flutter Mane with ease.
The only dangerous Flutter Mane set in my opinion is one with Substitute and 3 attacks including Psyshock. Prior to the ban, however, I never saw a single one of this set. Substitute / Calm Mind sets never ran Psyshock and could be easily taken out by a special wall with any semblence of physical attack (my Clodsire's uninvested base 60 attack dealt 60% to Flutter Mane.) And the sets that did run Psyshock did not run substitute, allowing literally any non-immune priority move to practically OHKO Flutter Mane.
(Ting-Lu is an amazing addition to bulky offence that also walls Flutter Mane. Since day 1, I had calcs showing AV Ting-Lu only takes 30% from Flutter Mane's Moonblast and returns with an Earthquake for at least 75%. And that's not including Tera if need be to get around its Fairy weakness.)

[more to be added]



Peaked rank 137 (Elo 1592) on 11/21 @ 3:00 AM EST (8:00 AM GMT)

Since then I haven't been laddering too much as I've been wanted to test other mons off-ladder and as I'm sure you are all familiar, hazard spam and stall are honestly too annoying right now (hence why :Garganacl: is likely getting banned soon). It's unfortunate because I think he would be balanced without tera but alas we have to wait for that ban. I just hope that most of the mons that get banned before tera/Home get brought back afterward for retesting; it'll really be a whole different metagame then.
I have used the team occasionally since, however, and have been able to maintain my Elo (and bring it up a few points to 1597). For reference these scores are akin to mid-1700s in gen8ou.

Annotation 2022-11-22 030716.png
 
Last edited:
That's a good team, I really like it. Can I suggest you to try Azumarill > Dondozo? That's because you have 0 switch-in on the most used Chi Yu set (Timid Specs TeraDark). Even Clodsire is 2HKO and can't kill it if max HP (min damage from Dark Pulse is 56%).
Azu can provide another priority with high attack, good coverage and can check some treath like the aferomentioned Chi Yu and Chien Pao, making the former to switch out because 1HKO from Aqua Jet (under rain).

That's the set:

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation/Knock Off
- Brick Break
- Play Rough

I forgot what the Evs were for so feel free to rearrange it. This set helps against screens too, which are quite diffused recently.
 
Mirror Armor on Corv is extremely circumstantial and not really useful as match up dependent as it is. You'd be much better served running Pressure on it, as avoid sp def drops from shadow ball is pointless anyway, and theres nothing super meta heavy that runs crunch or any other defense lowering move. Pressure is way more useful for roost stalling opponents out of PP.
 
Mirror Armor on Corv is extremely circumstantial and not really useful as match up dependent as it is. You'd be much better served running Pressure on it, as avoid sp def drops from shadow ball is pointless anyway, and theres nothing super meta heavy that runs crunch or any other defense lowering move. Pressure is way more useful for roost stalling opponents out of PP.
I'm sorry but just no. Crunch is common on both Roaring Moon and Chien-Pao (the latter of which I mention has a Choice Band set that is particularly challenging to deal with, especially when it drops Defence, and can 2HKO Corviknight if this happens). Running Pressure makes you susceptible to hax like this that make you wish you had Mirror Armor; if you are able to spend 8 turns Roosting they've either switched out or already gotten the Defence drop. Most offencive moves in the meta have 16 or 24 PP. With Roost reduced to just 8, most of the time you can't even PP stall a single move to fruition. And what few 8 PP attacks there are in the meta, Corviknight usually can't just easily Roost off. Furthermore, this is a Rain team, and although there aren't an abundance of abusers on the team, it is still counterproductive to stall out my own Rain. I'll admit it can't handle many Shadow Balls but it still is more useful dropping opponents' stats before switching out. There are many other things such as momentum upkeep that PP stalling with Corviknight just simply hurts. By all means though feel free to defend your position further; how about you send me a replay of you successfully PP stalling a threat with Corviknight.
 
I mean do what you want, but ur running an ability based on a a 20% chance of something POSSIBLY happening. Pressure is definitely the preferred ability and gives you way more use.
 
also this is an rmt forum, where people give advice on your team. not very polite or nice to leave laughing remarks by someone's post.
 
I mean do what you want, but ur running an ability based on a a 20% chance of something POSSIBLY happening. Pressure is definitely the preferred ability and gives you way more use.
I'm plenty open to ideas on how to improve the team, but you did not give me any examples or reasoning to how Pressure would be advantageous. Ensuring you avoid that 20% chance means you win 20% more match-ups, and that's per hit. Shell Armor was a great ability on Slowbro-Mega and that avoids what is typically a ~4% chance. As I said I'm open to discussion, but let's actually have a discussion then.
 
also chilling water would be more beneficial to run on peli than surf, you'll get attack drops on common switch ins, much better at forcing favorable match-ups and peli doesnt really need the power from surf that i know of.
 
Seeing how Palafin and Iron Bundle are both banned now, how would you change the team?
Good question! I'll be quite honest I haven't given it much thought yet, but ideally the replacements should have the same team roles as them. A physical powerhouse potentially with priority, and a specially offensive pokémon capable of sweeping. Theoretically the roles could be swapped, but for example there aren't many users of special priority moves.

Some pokemon that come to mind to replace Palafin include Kingambit, Scizor, and Barraskewda, though others like Breloom and Iron Hands (or even Quaquaval, Dragapult, or Chien-Pao) may be viable as well.

To replace Iron Bundle, I think some of the other future paradox pokemon like Iron Jugulis (difficult to use but if there's one place to use him it's probably on rain) or Iron Valiant. You could also try Tailwind Kilowattrel as well; I neglected to use him for a long enough time to really ascertain his viability. Possibly Sandy Shocks could work too.

Hope that helped give you some options; give them a try!
 
Good question! I'll be quite honest I haven't given it much thought yet, but ideally the replacements should have the same team roles as them. A physical powerhouse potentially with priority, and a specially offensive pokémon capable of sweeping. Theoretically the roles could be swapped, but for example there aren't many users of special priority moves.

Some pokemon that come to mind to replace Palafin include Kingambit, Scizor, and Barraskewda, though others like Breloom and Iron Hands (or even Quaquaval, Dragapult, or Chien-Pao) may be viable as well.

To replace Iron Bundle, I think some of the other future paradox pokemon like Iron Jugulis (difficult to use but if there's one place to use him it's probably on rain) or Iron Valiant. You could also try Tailwind Kilowattrel as well; I neglected to use him for a long enough time to really ascertain his viability. Possibly Sandy Shocks could work too.

Hope that helped give you some options; give them a try!
Could you potentially substitute QuaQuaval with aqua step and Moxie as a sweeping option in place of Palafin?
 
Could you potentially substitute QuaQuaval with aqua step and Moxie as a sweeping option in place of Palafin?
I did mention Quaquaval yes; the only issue is making sure that you can deal with Dondozo with your special attacker and still deal with Clodsire and other Unaware mons with your physical attacker or rest of team. As long as that's accounted for you should be good, yes.
 
God iodyne your rmts are always so detailed I love them :)

anyways with the bans I was wondering about your thoughts on a potential scizor set that looks fun to me

Scizor @ Life Orb / Metal Coat
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Trailblaze (boosted by technician!)
- Swords Dance
- U-turn / (other filler move I can’t think of)
 
God iodyne your rmts are always so detailed I love them :)

anyways with the bans I was wondering about your thoughts on a potential scizor set that looks fun to me

Scizor @ Life Orb / Metal Coat
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Trailblaze (boosted by technician!)
- Swords Dance
- U-turn / (other filler move I can’t think of)
Ahh thank you! I tried to make this one a lot shorter haha; though I guess it's still about 2500 words (but definitely not 15,000!).

I actually was looking at Scizor; played a game or two with him and Iron Jugulis as replacements. I was using a bulky Adamant pivot set with Boots but I think yours might suit better; though I'll have to do more testing first. The boosted Trailblaze is nice for sure. If Scizor is to be a sweeper instead of a pivot then I'd probably choose Close Combat as the filler move (I would have said something like Leech Life even but sadly GameFreak neglected to give Scizor a good movepool. You'd probably want the extra 4 EVs in Speed so you can outspeed Cyclizar (and eventually Tornadus-Therian) at +1.
 

Giyu

formerly GiyuForPresident
Regarding the Pressure > Mirror Armor argument, considering the recent nerf to recovery moves, you are capable of PP stalling them much faster. When using Pressure, your opponent's recovery options are the primary target, not their attacking moves. If you're worried about your rain turns, Corviknight isn't good to have on the team anyways since it's a huge momentum sink and it's not really doing anything to the opponent.
 
Regarding the Pressure > Mirror Armor argument, considering the recent nerf to recovery moves, you are capable of PP stalling them much faster. When using Pressure, your opponent's recovery options are the primary target, not their attacking moves. If you're worried about your rain turns, Corviknight isn't good to have on the team anyways since it's a huge momentum sink and it's not really doing anything to the opponent.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I have been under the impression that Pressure does not apply to moves that don't target the Pressure user, i.e. recovery moves, protect, boosting moves.

I'm not sure if I agree that Corviknight is a momentum sink either; while I don't want to stall out my Rain turns I also don't need them constantly up every turn since it's not an HO team. With U-Turn he maintains decent momentum in my opinion and Body Press is very useful for the many Fighting-weak threats in this meta. With so many physical attackers, I have found it useful to have a second physical wall in addition to Dondozo.

Who would you reccomend I replace Corviknight with? Or you just think pressure would be better? Do you think I should change anything else with his set?
 
Hello again everyone,

Generation nine has been off to an interesting (and somewhat controversial) start, and all in less than a week no less.
My forum presence so far has been minimal apart from my vote in the SS OU Melmetal suspect test and my recent SS OU essay-of-an-RMT I made as a goodbye to generation eight, and I have often taken many months breaks between my stints on Showdown! However, with this new generation and going forth, I hope to have more of a presence on this site (both Showdown! and Smogon) and I look forward to experiencing this metagame with all of you and contributing to it in some lasting way. With that being said, let's get on to this RMT (which I promise will be much shorter than my last).

The new games have brought a lot of changes to the meta, for both good and bad. And the tiering council have certainly had their hands full with discussions, decisions, and enactments. Among these are the likelihood of bans for both :Palafin-Hero: and :Iron Bundle:, two of the strongest pokémon in the meta right now (especially now that :Flutter Mane: and :Houndstone: have already been banned). Aside from some initial testing in the first few hours after Showdown! updated with the new mons, the team I have been solely laddering with utilizes both :Palafin-Hero: and :Iron Bundle:; I present that to you now.

The team:
:sv/Iron Bundle: :bw/Pelipper: :sv/Palafin-Hero: :sv/Clodsire:
:sv/Dondozo:

https://pokepast.es/b92b8ef6e4619880
Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Substitute
- Agility

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost

Palafin @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wave Crash
- Close Combat
- Jet Punch

Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog

Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Rest

I originally made this team to use and abuse tailwind, as I was quite excited for the new wind abilities. This was the team: https://pokepast.es/e1dd10fb79ac4d24
Unfortunately once the pokémon were available on Showdown! I had the horrible discovery that neither ability work when the pokémon switches in while Tailwind is active (from the leaks it had seemed, or perhaps had made me hope, it would work). I still think the pokémon are somewhat viable, and will perhaps become moreso once the meta changes (with Home and potential DLCs). As the team now is different I will speak about the differences last.

The team is clearly a Rain team; as such Pelipper is a must.
Palafin is perhaps the star of the team; an incredibly powerful wallbreaker in Hero form and even more so with the power boost Rain provides to water moves.
Clodsire is a special tank, a necessity both now and before Flutter Mane was banned.
Corviknight is the physical tank, another necessity with all the Paradox and other powerful pokémon around.
Additionally, with the many sweepers that Corviknight can't take out, Dondozo provides additionally physical defence support.
Lastly, to replace Kilowattrel, Iron Bundle provides the special offence and sweeping capability the rest of the team lacks.

This is my no means an incredibly balanced team, with many checks that need to be approached with caution and tact, and is not very easy to use either.
With that being said, here are the sets and explanations thereof.






:bw/Pelipper:
View attachment 468089
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost


:Pelipper: is of course the Rain setter, with Drizzle as its ability. As such I gave it Damp Rock to extend the weather. I don't actually see this as a necessity as :Palafin-Hero: seems to be coming up against more checks and counters as of late, such as :Amoonguss:, :Breloom:, and Water Absorb :Clodsire:, and that frankly the rest of the team doesn't really abuse Rain to a great degree (though they do appreciate it).

:Pelipper: never sees use of its Tera as it has a niche defensive role to begin with (mostly pokémon like :Great Tusk:, :Palafin-Hero:, and some defencive mons), and doesn't really face situations that warrant using up the team's only tera just to take an
Electric
attack.

EVs and Nature (Bold) are allocated almost entirely in HP and Def so as to maximize physical bulk. Pretty standard stuff. The remaining 8 are put in SpA just to give those errant few calcs a bit better odds. I didn't put 4 in Spe because I didn't see the need to outspeed other uninvested base 65s; though perhaps it may be useful to do so, or to remove an IV to get a slower pivot out from them.

As for moves, U-Turn allows :Pelipper: to function as a pivot. Surf is :Pelipper:'s strongest
Water
move aside from Hydro Pump (yes, :Pelipper: does not learn Weather Ball (or Scald for that matter)). Hurricane is of course a strong STAB move that's useful for hitting
Grass
pokémon as well as others. And lastly Roost is for recovery; useful in those defencive situations I mentioned.




:sv/Palafin-Hero:
View attachment 468040
Palafin @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wave Crash
- Close Combat
- Jet Punch


:Palafin-Hero: is most notorious for his awesome (I mean that literally) Attack stat. With access to ample priority, and decent bulk and speed, I opted to give him a Choice band and an Adamant nature to maximize his Attack into something truly awful (again, meant literally). After Nature and Band, :Palafin-Hero:'s real Attack stat sits at a horrifying 690; and that is not even discussing his moves.

As for Tera,
Fighting
allows :Palafin-Hero: to lose any weaknesses it had as
Water
and gain an additional STAB option. Some instances where this is useful defencively include versus :Iron Bundle:, versus Sucker Punch users such as :Kingambit:, and versus
Grass
or Tera-
Grass
pokémon.

Jet Punch is a great priority move :Palafin-Hero: appreciates, especially being quite slow compared to the rest of the tier (Also useful for outspeeding :Grimmsnarl:'s Prankster Reflect). Flip Turn allows much-needed pivot capability (especially for a Choiced set), and Wave Crash is to let :Palafin-Hero: really dish out damage when he needs to. Close Combat is a great move to provide neutral or super-effective coverage where
Water
is walled. Barring Rain, Close Combat will do equal damage as Wave Crash but without the recoil. A non-STAB CC plus a STAB one can KO :Corviknight:, and STAB CC does something between 40 and 65 percent to most :Clodsire:.




:sv/Clodsire:
View attachment 468045
Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover


:Clodsire: is a very cute and effective special wall. Typically Unaware pokémon are resigned to mediocre stats (see :Clefable: and :Quagsire:), but with 130 HP and 100 SpD and a good typing, :Clodsire: is very capable at what he needs to do.

Now I don't run Unaware as :Clodsire:'s ability. I tried it for a little while but the ability to lose a weakness is huge. One reason why Water Absorb mons are so good is that it usually turns a neutral hit into an immunity. Or Levitate on an a pokémon that would otherwise be weak to
Ground
.

Leftovers for passive recovery, and EVs to maximize Special bulk. The Tera type was a holdover from :Flutter Mane: but I put because I figured SpD
Fire
would be a good defencive type for this meta. I haven't used it at all either so feel free to use something different and/or more useful. Just in case though, I recommend not using Black Sludge on the off chance of using Tera.

As for moves, Stealth Rock is of course good and fits nowhere else on the team. Toxic is nice for mons like :Dragonite: before they set up, or against a Special attacker that you don't have enough Recover PP to stall out. Earthquake as strong stab and is necessary to damage said attackers or at least break through a Substitute. And lastly of course Recover because of course.

Very weak to physical attacks of course, even opposing :Clodsire:. Perhaps it may be helpful to put 4 EVs into Speed just for this match up.





View attachment 468062
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog


:Corviknight: is the ever-popular (and for good reason) physical wall (though I love his special set). :Corviknight: has great typing with decent abilities and stats, and a movepool that leaves nothing more to be desired.

Boots is hardly a necessity with :Corviknight: (just as was the case with :Landorus-Therian:), and Rocky Helmet is great to punish most physical attackers, especially pivots (and makes any match-up with :Maushold: a 6v5).

Mirror Armor is great for avoiding defence drops from Crunches and Shadow Balls, and Tera
Dragon
is if you need to resist
Electric
,
Fire
, or
Water
attacks. Though often :Corviknight: needs to live
Ice
attacks, so there may be a better type. I rarely if ever Tera :Corviknight:, so take from that what you will. I find that with most purely defencive pokémon, save say :Garganacl: and :Wo-Chien:, that Tera is better suited for more offencive pokémon.

As for EVs, max Def and a magic HP; the Speed was just a benchmark I utilized in gen 8 (don't ask me what it was for), and the remaining 4 into SpD. Impish for Def.
U-Turn once again for pivoting, Roost for recovery, and Defog for dealing with hazards (if annoying :Gholdengo: will let you). On the original team I had Tailwind in place of Body Press, and it isn't unhelpful for giving :Palafin-Hero: and :Iron Bundle: Speed boosts, but Body Press can be quite helpful versus pokemon like :Chien-Pao: or :Roaring Moon: instead of having to go fully on the defencive or hope U-Turn does enough damage.




:sv/dondozo:
View attachment 468063
Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Rest


To continue the topic of Unaware mons, they are incredibly useful as they ignore most set-up sweepers (and these are especially common right now). Most of the set-up sweepers currently are physical attackers, what :Dondozo:'s stat distribution makes him most suited to counter. I went on for paragraphs in my last RMT on the sheer physical bulk of :Suicune: (146k); meanwhile, having the third-highest HP of any water type and 11th highest Def, :Dondozo: checks in with a physical bulk at an impressive 182k, the second highest after :Slowbro-Mega: (who has about 9% more). (And in contrast, :Dondozo:'s special bulk is about 8.5% higher than :Slowbro-Mega:'s; nothing impressive, but he can still live a decent hit or two.) All-in-all he is very bulky, able to take a physical hit from even the biggest threats. Something like Crunch from a Banded :Chien-Pao: does about 40% or so.

:Dondozo: was given Leftovers for passive recovery and maximization of his HP. The EVs maximize his Def and HP as well, with the few extra in SpD. Nature too, like :Corviknight:. Tera
Dragon
on :Dondozo: is probably the most useful among the defencive pokémon on this team (only :Iron Bundle: and :Palafin-Hero: see more use of theirs); it maintains his resistances to
Fire
and
Water
, while covering his weaknesses of
Grass
and
Electric
. Sure, changing
Ice
from a resist to a weakness and adding 2 more isn't perfect but I find it considerably useful. :Dondozo: can also change to his Tera type to avoid the extra chip damage from Salt Cure (type change must be before the move hits, not during the effect, in order to reduce the damage, as far as my testing demonstrated. Update: according to this post, this may not be the case!).

:Dondozo: has a very limited Status moveset, and a decently large Physical one. For a pokemon with a maximized Defence stat, Body Press is always a good option. Having at least two attacks on every mon is always good, and STAB is even better. For a water move :Dondozo: does get Liquidation, but its only 85 base power and the defence drop is not helpful for him because of his ability. Wave Crash at 120 base power is appealing, though some may be put off by the recoil. However, for a pokemon with such high HP, the recoil is actually quite minimal unless it is doing massive damage to a bulky opponent. And the extra damage Wave Crash provides is noteworthy; especially in Rain. Between that and :Dondozo:'s decent base 100 Attack, it can definitely hold its own; Wave Crash easily OHKO-ing :Chi-Yu: (just barely survives Body Press), does about half to :Gholdengo:, :Iron Valiant:, and SpD :Ting-Lu:, and more so to :Great Tusks: and :Iron Treads: to name a few. Body Press has even better coverage, easily countering :Chien-Pao:, :Roaring Moon:, and :Kingambit:. As for match-ups, perhaps most importantly is :Dondozo:'s ability to 1v1 Taunt / Bulk Up :Palafin-Hero:; if he does Taunt you, you simply spam Body Press (or Wave Crash if he Teras into a
Water
-resistant type). The :Dondozo: does outperforms that of :Palafin-Hero: and gets the KO first, even including the recovery it gets off of Drain Punch. Rest is for reliable recovery, my signature perhaps. And Yawn is a great option for forcing a switch or getting an opportunity to bring in a breaker/sweeper.




:sv/Iron Bundle:
View attachment 468087
Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Substitute
- Agility


:Iron Bundle: is the designated special attacker and sweeper for the team. Before :Flutter Mane: was even on Finchinator's radar I was advocating for a look into :Iron Bundle:. Not that I won't use it myself in the meantime ;)

:Iron Bundle: has the fastest attack of all the mons added this generation, and is tied with :Barraskewda: as the third-fastest mon in the current dex (after :Electrode:, then :Dragapult:), 1 base point (or 3 real) faster than :Flutter Mane: and :Chien Pao:. While it's only real
Water
move comes in the form of the 80% accurate Hydro Pump, because of :Iron Bundle:'s 124 base SpA stat, when it hits, it hits hard. :Iron Bundle: also gets access to Freeze-Dry, which when coupled with Hydro Pump has better coverage than BoltBeam. There is not a single pokémon in the dex that resists both
Water
and Freeze-Dry. In the national dex, only :Dewgong: and :Walrein: with their Thick Fat ability allow them to resist Freeze-Dry; the closest thing to this now is Thick Fat :Azumarill:, which takes neutral from Freeze-Dry and has a decent bulk. The only other mons like that are :Abomasnow:, :Baxcalibur:, :Cloyster:, and other :Iron Bundle:. Additionally, :Iron Bundle: also has a great natural Defence stat of 114, allowing it to live most Physical hits (such as a +1 Earthquake from :Dragonite: or half from a Dragon Claw at neutral). Just try not to get hit by a special attack; :Iron Bundle: is almost as bad at taking them as :Flutter Mane: is with physical moves.

Of course none of these can take much more than a single hit from the powerhouse that is :Iron Bundle:. When coupled with Booster Energy, which in this case I have give my Modest :Iron Bundle: a 1.3x (formerly 1.5x) boost to SpA, as well as Tera
Ice
for "Adaptability", :Iron Bundle: can practically sweep every other pokemon than :Blissey: and a very select other few. In fact, in Rain, Hydro Pump did at least 60% to Blissey; probably 50% or so now that Booster Energy has been nerfed. Coupled with Substitute and Agility, :Iron Bundle: has the ability to avoid status, finish off any few mons that (just barely) require two hits to faint, and outspeed the entire tier (including Scarfers). The Tera type also allows :Iron Bundle: to win mirror matches, as the opponent will go for a potential KO with Freeze-Dry while it likely does about 40-45% after Tera, and meanwhile you can guarantee an OHKO with your own Freeze-Dry. If you are able to take out any special walls or pertinent counterplay, then it may be more advantageous to run max Speed Timid, and replace the Booster Energy with Choice Specs or Heavy-Duty Boots.






Here's the full team again:
I'll have some replays (as well as proof of peak) linked below (though perhaps not until after the holiday).
Happy Thanksgiving!

:Iron Bundle: :Pelipper: :Palafin-Hero: :Clodsire: :Corviknight: :Dondozo:
https://pokepast.es/b92b8ef6e4619880
Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Substitute
- Agility

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost

Palafin @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wave Crash
- Close Combat
- Jet Punch

Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Body Press
- Roost
- Defog

Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Rest



Replays (in-progress, more will be added soon):
vs. Truebeliver (1691) :Orthworm: :Gholdengo: :Garganacl: :Dondozo: :Ditto: :Arboliva:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1717316305-nra04e3p11elfl8ihlxhpy3og09m3gzpw
Good example of Iron Bundle both sweeping, and beating an opposing Iron Bundle (Ditto) by terastallizing to an Ice type. He complained of a crit but if you calc it (especially when Booster Energy was 1.5x, but I think even without), it always KOs.

vs. Tonybuffnuts (1585) :Chi-Yu: :Hatterene: :Garganacl: :Hippowdon: :Haxorus: :Houndstone:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1716729080-uz61yktkqrs5l6k3xok3z4uykbff57xpw
This replay is a good example of Iron Bundle's pure strength, dealing 95% to Water-Tera Garganacl with Freeze-Dry, as well as of the ability for the team to handle the infamous Houndstone between weather control, physical walls, and priority moves.
(Houndstone's 300BP Last Respects does almost equal to a Poltergiest from +1 Marowak-Alola; Houndstone was very gimmicky to begin with (just like Marowak-Alola) and with the new speed tiers and movepools, he can either be taken out with priority or outsped with little real issue.) Nonetheless I am fine with the move being banned, but it seems counterproductive to ban the pokémon and then have to do it all over again when Home comes out.

vs. Zero to Heroe (1503) :Chi-Yu: :Scizor: :Palafin-Hero: :Chien-Pao: :Amoonguss: :Great Tusk:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1717515028-b7uar798nqv7r5snx5fpz5p7n6210mppw
Nothing high-ladder or anything but a great example of Dondozo's offencive prowess (and Tera), as well as the team's synergy handling different threats.

vs. Landzard (1455) :Skeledirge: :Quagsire: :Palafin-Hero: :Amoonguss: :Flutter Mane: :Great Tusk:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1716502648-m5x7b1jt3yzjq7lfpe055covm0ialh6pw
Again, not a high-ladder replay (I didn't save too many, unfortunately), but nontheless shows how Iron Bundle can essentially turn a 6v6 into a 5v3 at the start (or sweep from mid game). This also contains a good demonstration of Dondozo out-performing Bulk Up / Taunt Palafin-Hero (though he didn't spam Drain Punch the whole time for some unknown reason, you can understand the direction it was heading, as well as how Clodsire handles Substitute / Calm Mind Flutter Mane with ease.
The only dangerous Flutter Mane set in my opinion is one with Substitute and 3 attacks including Psyshock. Prior to the ban, however, I never saw a single one of this set. Substitute / Calm Mind sets never ran Psyshock and could be easily taken out by a special wall with any semblence of physical attack (my Clodsire's uninvested base 60 attack dealt 60% to Flutter Mane.) And the sets that did run Psyshock did not run substitute, allowing literally any non-immune priority move to practically OHKO Flutter Mane.
(Ting-Lu is an amazing addition to bulky offence that also walls Flutter Mane. Since day 1, I had calcs showing AV Ting-Lu only takes 30% from Flutter Mane's Moonblast and returns with an Earthquake for at least 75%. And that's not including Tera if need be to get around its Fairy weakness.)

[more to be added]



Peaked rank 137 (Elo 1592) on 11/21 @ 3:00 AM EST (8:00 AM GMT)

Since then I haven't been laddering too much as I've been wanted to test other mons off-ladder and as I'm sure you are all familiar, hazard spam and stall are honestly too annoying right now (hence why :Garganacl: is likely getting banned soon). It's unfortunate because I think he would be balanced without tera but alas we have to wait for that ban. I just hope that most of the mons that get banned before tera/Home get brought back afterward for retesting; it'll really be a whole different metagame then.
I have used the team occasionally since, however, and have been able to maintain my Elo (and bring it up a few points to 1597). For reference these scores are akin to mid-1700s in gen8ou.

View attachment 468020
i felt stupid reading theese replies then going back to my team, but im still wondering on WHY you went mirror armor instead of pressure on corv.
And would also like for you to rate my team (which is called murder crew in the forum)
 

Giyu

formerly GiyuForPresident
Correct me if I'm wrong but I have been under the impression that Pressure does not apply to moves that don't target the Pressure user, i.e. recovery moves, protect, boosting moves.

I'm not sure if I agree that Corviknight is a momentum sink either; while I don't want to stall out my Rain turns I also don't need them constantly up every turn since it's not an HO team. With U-Turn he maintains decent momentum in my opinion and Body Press is very useful for the many Fighting-weak threats in this meta. With so many physical attackers, I have found it useful to have a second physical wall in addition to Dondozo.

Who would you reccomend I replace Corviknight with? Or you just think pressure would be better? Do you think I should change anything else with his set?
Pressure raises PP expenditure on every move except yours.
 
Pressure raises PP expenditure on every move except yours.
I probably shouldn't have made it sound like I didn't know. If you read my last RMT you would know that I mained Pressure Suicune for at least the past two years. Pressure does not effect self-targeting moves like Recover and Protect. Multi-target moves like Haze are still affected. This was much to the dismay of me whenever I'd have to PP stall Toxapex. If you don't believe me, I just tested it in both Gen 8 and Gen 9.

i felt stupid reading theese replies then going back to my team, but im still wondering on WHY you went mirror armor instead of pressure on corv.
And would also like for you to rate my team (which is called murder crew in the forum)
To reiterate, in this metagame I do not feel like there is any time to PP-stall. Sure you can go up against stall but with recovery moves nerfed in half (and considering Corviknight's moveset, with one move being a pivot move, or not being designed around PP stalling (i.e. with protect, substitute, spite, etc)), I think that wallbreakers would be better for that. On that note, Corviknight already has a tough enough time going up against physical threats like Chien-Pao and Fighting types. when their attacks deal 40-something percent to Corviknight, he can live an additional hit after switch-in to return with say a Body Press or Brave Bird. He already can't stall the attacks even with pressure, since 8PP of roost will only stall 16PP moves (most moves are 16-24PP and would not be effectively stall out; besides at this point the opponent would just switch and you wouldn't get a kill or be able to bring back in your Corviknight to counter). Yes maybe you can deal with Chien-Pao or something with Dondozo, but it's always good to have multiple options and other mons too might require Corviknight to counter. Considering the usefulness of Corviknight to be able to check Chien-Pao and the like, such a strategy can be aggravatingly broken if the opponent gets a lucky Crunch defence drop. You may think of it as rare and that doesn't warrant consideration, but 30% is quite common; think of all the times Hurricane or Focus Blast have missed or how often you got a Burn with Scald. In my opinion, especially considering the not-very-useful other ability (Pressure), being able to avoid these situations and remove unlucky randomness is incredibly valuable. The same can be said with special defence drops regardless of whether running a specially or physically defencive Corviknight. If you still don't understand I'm not sure I can help you. Perhaps playing games with both abilities might help you decide what you find more useful.
 

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