Resource Other Metagames Index - Ask Questions Here!

[berry]

So I have an idea for a meta called Maxgen, where Pokémon can use every move introduced in their generation. "Maxgen" already exists as a search command on Showdown, and it shows every move introduced in a generation. Does it also exist as a mod that can be used in challenges? Because I'd like to test out my idea.

This idea existed a couple of years ago under the name “genmons”

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/genmons-playable-on-rom.3511729/

There isn’t a specific mod that comes to mind to do exactly this, but you can remove the Obtainable Moves rule or just test your sets in custom game as long as you know which gens mons / moves were introduced.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

I was unaware of that. Where's a good place to ask people for challenges? The Other Metas room is dead right now.

 

[berry]

The OM room is probably the best place to ask, unfortunately the mornings around this time are pretty dead. If you throw out a "does anyone want to play a couple games of gen 8 genmons" with the link to the old thread during more active hours, you might get a couple of takers. I'd also note that the staff members of OM Mashups might be willing to experiment with formats like this with roomtours or other events if it is able to be played through tour code.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

Also, I should clarify, Maxgen is different from Genmons in that Pokémon can use moves they normally learn as well.

 

[A Golden Waddle Dee]

Is there a chance that Frantic Fusions can become an official OM? Just wanted to know since I really enjoy playing it, and I would love for it to become official.

 

[Ivy]

Is there a chance that Frantic Fusions can become an official OM? Just wanted to know since I really enjoy playing it, and I would love for it to become official.

Technically, someone could submit it since it's not in the list of denied ideas in the index, but it looks like the staff just forgot to fill in that list entirely this gen. Plus the premise is kind of challenging to summarize into one sentence, which is one of the requirements for an OM.

 

[PQRDG]

What is the best approach to try and create a new OM? I have some ideas but I want to make sure I go through the appropriate process before I say anything more.

 

[in the hills]

What is the best approach to try and create a new OM? I have some ideas but I want to make sure I go through the appropriate process before I say anything more.

Hello! Thanks for the question!

You can check out our Metagame Workshop if you're interested in creating a new OM, where our guidelines are listed. Once you read through them you can share your ideas with the community and receive feedback. Should the community or our submissions readers show support for the metagame and you've fleshed the idea out enough, you can try submitting it in the OM Submissions forum for review by our mods.

Hope this helps!

 

[DaWoblefet]

I need help understanding how "Forme Clause" works. This is PS's definition:

• Prevents teams from having more than one Pokémon of the same forme

As far as I understand it, Forme Clause is completely independent from Species Clause - even though, technically, bringing two Lillipup would be bringing two Pokemon of the same form, the clause doesn't apply here. It's also not any Pokemon officially denoted as "Forme", even though Urshifu-S and Urshifu-R aren't officially called "Formes", you still can't bring multiple Single Strike Style Urshifu to a game. The term "Forme" is meant to include something more along the lines of "an alternative form with competitive relevance". But what counts as "an alternative form with competitive relevance"? Is it just stats and typing? Is it a Pokemon's effective form at Team Preview, or during the battle? Some examples:

• Zamazenta-Crowned and regular Zamazenta with Rusted Shield. Both are instantly Zamazenta-Crowned at the start of the battle, but not Team Preview. But Showdown currently rejects this as a violation of Forme Clause.
• Cramorant-Gulping and Cramorant-Gorging (or Cramorant-Gorging and regular Cramorant, etc.). The effects of Gulp Missile change based on what form Cramorant starts as. But Showdown currently rejects this as a violation of Forme Clause.
• Silvally-Ghost without RKS System or a Ghost Memory and Silvally with RKS System and a Ghost Memory. Showdown accepts this, so it does not seem to violate Forme Clause.
• Morpeko-Full-Belly and Morpeko-Hangry (with or without Hunger Switch). Without Hunger Switch, the form is purely aesthetic (and it is also just aesthetic without Hunger Switch + Aura Wheel). But Showdown currently rejects this as a violation of Forme Clause.

These examples can be multiplied, but it doesn't seem especially consistent, at least to me. Is there documentation of how each form should be treated under Forme Clause?

 

[The Immortal]

Is it just stats and typing?

Yes. Differing stats and/or typing were decided to be the objective criteria of Forme Clause.

In regards to the examples, the effects of Gulp Missile and Hunger Switch are completely irrelevant. I can't say of the top of my head if the Crowned/Silvally cases are correct. It sounds like they are incorrect since the mechanics changed between gen 7 and 8 while Forme Clause was not updated to account for it.

 

[DaWoblefet]

Yes. Differing stats and/or typing were decided to be the objective criteria of Forme Clause.

In regards to the examples, the effects of Gulp Missile and Hunger Switch are completely irrelevant. I can't say of the top of my head if the Crowned/Silvally cases are correct. It sounds like they are incorrect since the mechanics changed between gen 7 and 8 while Forme Clause was not updated to account for it.

To be crystal clear, is that a difference of stats/typing at Team Preview (i.e. teambuilder level) or a difference of stats/typing at the start of the battle?

With regards to Cramorant and Morpeko, because they do not have stats/typing differences, that means for the purposes of Forme Clause, Cramorant-Gulping and Cramorant-Gorging are the same. So Forme Clause counts Cramorant-Gulping and Cramorant-Gorging as the "same form", and therefore it is more comparable to bringing two Lillipup. It also means this part of my assumption was wrong:

As far as I understand it, Forme Clause is completely independent from Species Clause - even though, technically, bringing two Lillipup would be bringing two Pokemon of the same form, the clause doesn't apply here.

That seems strange to me at face value since the different Gulp Missile mechanics is significant, but I have no interest in changing Forme Clause, just understanding it. Thanks TI!

 

[QY_CS]

Hey, really dumb question here that probably has an answer somewhere I can't find, but how can I see how many posts I've made in OM forum?

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Hey, really dumb question here that probably has an answer somewhere I can't find, but how can I see how many posts I've made in OM forum?

There isn't an easy way unfortunately. You would have to do a search for posts by you in this forum and then count.

 

[FormDiscussion]

Is it possible to play custom game versions of other metagames anywhere? Im talking about a server or something where I can for run stuff like 20 mix and mega hackmons on one team.

 

[a loser]

I need help understanding how "Forme Clause" works. This is PS's definition:

• Prevents teams from having more than one Pokémon of the same forme

Zamazenta-Crowned and regular Zamazenta with Rusted Shield. Both are instantly Zamazenta-Crowned at the start of the battle, but not Team Preview. But Showdown currently rejects this as a violation of Forme Clause.

Some discussion in the OM Discord yesterday led to some questions about the Forme Clause. The Forme Clause was implemented in BH to prevent the ability to use "species spam" tactics in the teambuilder by using multiples of threats like Zacian-C, DGZ, and so on, but to allow players to use different formes of Pokemon on their team that have different stats/typing. See below for examples.

See this post for a good description of the Forme Clause.

Aesthetic changes, such as Gastrodon or Unown, are called forms. We define formes as Pokémon with more than just aesthetic differences - as Pokémon with stats or type changes. With that said, a GhostCeus that looks like a FightCeus is still a GhostCeus. Under Forme Clause, you should not be able to run two GhostCeus even if they look different. As for Magearna, it is purely aesthetic.

Formes most relevant to Balanced Hackmons are shown below. The Forme Clause allows you to use one of each on the same team.

Currently in BH, Zacian-C is banned. By this, I mean you aren't allowed to choose Zacian-C in the teambuilder and give it any item or ability. At the time of this ban, the council decided to follow a precedent set in previous generations that allows players to "bypass" bans by using in-game mechanics involving transformations of mons (example being Groudon @ Red Orb to bypass the Primal Groudon ban). Based on my experience playing Sword on the switch, I knew that Zacian holding the Rusted Sword in your party will not turn into Zacian-C until you enter battle. Using this knowledge, we decided to allow Zacian-C to be accessed in battle to bypass the ban via Zacian @ Rusted Sword in the teambuilder. No matter what ability Zacian has prior to entering battle, it will enter as Zacian-C with Intrepid Sword as its ability.

Things start to get confusing once you consider this with the Forme Clause. As you mentioned, you can't have Zamazenta-C and Zamazenta @ Rusted Shield in your team as both of these are considered as Zamazenta-C, which violates the Forme Clause. This leads me to believe that the validator found in teambuilder assesses whether or not the team is legal by checking the team as it will appear at the start of the battle. This would mean that Zamazenta @ Rusted Shield = Zamazenta-C and would also mean that Zacian @ Rusted Sword = Zacian-C.

Currently, the teambuilder allows Zacian @ Rusted Sword and Zacian holding any other item to be on the same team. This makes sense because Zacian and Zacian-C are different formes with varying typing, stats, and competitive use. But this makes me question if Zacian @ Rusted Sword should be allowed in BH, since according to the teambuilder validator it is the equivalent of a banned Pokemon. There seem to be contradictions in the validator that allow Zacian @ Rusted Sword unless there is some specific coding to allow this. Otherwise, it would have to mean that Zacian @ Rusted Sword is seen as Zacian and shouldn't be allowed on a team with another Zacian not holding Rusted Sword, and this doesn't match up with the Zamazenta example.

I got this by putting Zacian-Crowned @ Any Item and Zacian @ Rusted Sword together in the teambuilder. Something just isn't adding up here, but I'm not sure what it is. But for now it looks like Zacian @ Rusted Sword = Zacian-C and Zacian-C is banned. This appears to be different from what we originally thought when comparing this to previous examples like Groudon @ Red Orb to get Primal Groudon and Gengar @ Gengarite to obtain a banned ability in Shadow Tag. So, what should be done here?

 

[TailGlowVM]

As a non-STABmons player, I was speculating with some other OU players recently on the possibility of using physical Blacephalon if it got Poltergeist. Given that in STABmons Blace can use Poltergeist and Pyro Ball, I was wondering whether you use that there? Or are only special sets viable?

 

[in the hills]

As a non-STABmons player, I was speculating with some other OU players recently on the possibility of using physical Blacephalon if it got Poltergeist. Given that in STABmons Blace can use Poltergeist and Pyro Ball, I was wondering whether you use that there? Or are only special sets viable?

In the context of STABmons, physical Blacephalon is alright, though it has some hurdles to face such as losing to Toxapex and Tyranitar, as well as facing competition from Marowak-Alola, which has Shadow Sneak to patch its lower speed tier while boasting Lightning Rod and Precipice Blades as a coverage option. However for the purpose of your question, physical Blacephalon could have some uses for sure. I personally prefer mixed sets, but full on physical could probably work out as well.

Thanks for your interest! Hopefully you and your OU friends try out STABmons sometime :)

 

[Red Raven]

Were there any discussions about a custom format where all rng is completely removed (i.e. all moves have 100 accuracy or damage is constant instead of a roll) or anything similar? If yes, may I ask for a link about those discussions

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Were there any discussions about a custom format where all rng is completely removed (i.e. all moves have 100 accuracy or damage is constant instead of a roll) or anything similar? If yes, may I ask for a link about those discussions

These discussions have definitely happened, although I'm afraid I don't have them handy, as we would have to root through quite a lot of old forum material. If anyone else has them feel free to post.
The ultimate decision is that this was a task for Pet Mods, as it involves multiple small, non-objective changes to the game, rather than one big one applied equally to everything. I know that sounds weird but quantifying hax is subjective.

The closest we could probably get would probably be something like the opposite of Haxmons but honestly I don't know if that would make it through today's approval process. Early gen 6 OMs was a very different place.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

Which OM is the most like OU but with species clause removed?

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Which OM is the most like OU but with species clause removed?

There is no OM that is specifically that. The only non-species clause OMs are VERY different from OU. I think Pure Hackmons is the only one at this point.

 

[stephen78548]

look i just want a balanced hackmons doubles is there a reason we dont have that

 

[WMAR]

look i just want a balanced hackmons doubles is there a reason we dont have that

Actually we do have BH Doubles, its an OM Mashup and i recommend looking at the thread and play with us https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3657159/#post-8299984

 

[stephen78548]

Actually we do have BH Doubles, its an OM Mashup and i recommend looking at the thread and play with us https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3657159/#post-8299984

POGGG cant wait to play ^O^

 

[stephen78548]

ok so i just went to BH doubles and its on a dead server like I was the only one there is there a reason that it is not on the main channel?