ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread V6

Pearl

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(Big shoutout to MandyRoh for the awesome banner!)

Welcome to the UnderUsed Viability Thread, brought to you by yours truly! The preliminary rankings for each metagame (every three months, or any other important release) will be decided on by a handpicked group of people who have shown a deep and relevant understanding of the metagame and contributed to the last UU Viability thread. This group, though, is obviously subject to change.

So where do you come in? Well, after the preliminary rankings have been worked out by us, it's the entire community's job to refine those rankings to more accurately reflect the true viability of all relevant Pokemon in the UU metagame. Because our guesses will come before much meaningful experience using Pokemon will have occurred, we can't be accurate enough without your help. Post about the Pokemon that you're experienced using, but try not to let your personal bias oversell any Pokemon.

The S tier contains a select few metagame-defining Pokemon, the best of the best, and the A tiers reflect on the Pokemon which are extremely effective but flawed in some aspects. The B tier is slightly more expansive, with the B+ tier representing Pokemon that are fairly common and threatening but don't quite make the cut for A-, while the B- tier represents Pokemon who fill minor, but relevant, niches. Below the B tier, the generic C tier displays the rest of the Pokemon that are usable in UU, but don't have a niche that is appreciated by most UU teams. Finally, the D rank will only include Pokemon that are tiered in UU by usage, but have no usability in the metagame.

The S through B+ ranks Pokemon are individually sorted within their rank by viability. This is quite subjective, and even though it's fine for users to make suggestions regarding each Pokemon's placement within those ranks in their posts, it should never become the main focus of the discussion.

Viability Team Members:
S Rank

Hydreigon
Celebi
Suicune

A Rank

A1

Mega Aerodactyl
Entei
Krookodile
Sylveon
Conkeldurr

A2

Mega Swampert
Gyarados
Mega Beedrill
Empoleon
Mega Sceptile
Cresselia
Cobalion

A3

Tentacruel
Swampert
Crobat
Reuniclus
Infernape
Nidoqueen
Mamoswine

A4

Snorlax
Kyurem
Mega Sharpedo
Tornadus
Mega Blastoise
Heracross
Metagross

A5

Alomomola
Blissey
Lucario
Forretress
Haxorus
Bronzong
Mienshao
Crawdaunt
Doublade

B Rank:

B+ Rank


Milotic
Escavalier
Feraligatr
Roserade
Rotom-C
Nidoking
Florges
Toxicroak
Heliolisk
Whimsicott
Gligar
Froslass
Mega Abomasnow

B Rank

Mega Absol
Mega Aggron
Arcanine
Chandelure
Chesnaught
Mega Houndoom
Jellicent
Mandibuzz
Porygon2
Sableye
Shaymin
Slowking
Slurpuff
Venomoth

B- Rank

Aerodactyl
Darmanitan
Diancie
Dragalge
Durant
Espeon
Galvantula
Magneton
Porygon-Z
Rotom-H
Shuckle
Mega Steelix
Umbreon

C Rank:

C+ Rank:


Mega Ampharos
Cloyster
Fletchinder
Gardevoir
Honchkrow
Hoopa
Machamp
Moltres
Noivern
Registeel
Tyrantrum
Uxie
Weezing
Zoroark

C Rank

Donphan
Gastrodon
Meloetta
Omastar
Qwilfish
Rhyperior
Sharpedo
Virizion
Yanmega

C- Rank

Mega Glalie
Goodra
Granbull
Quagsire
Seismitoad
Tangela
Togetic

D Rank a.k.a. "Florges should be here" - Omfuga:

Vaporeon

New Pokemon:



Keys n_n
 
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Pearl

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Changes:
  • A lot of changes regarding Pokemon placements in the upper rankings to reflect the curent metagame better, with the most notable one being Celebi changing spots with Suicune in S Rank.
  • Mamoswine moved down from A+ to A (the consensus is that the post Salamence ban metagame is a lot less kind to it and priority Ice Shard isn't as valuable anymore. Plus, Krookodile gives it a run for its money as a Ground-type nuke)
  • Conkeldurr moved up from A- to A (discussed in the previous thread IIRC. Really good at pressuring slower teams with its Bulk Up and Choice Band sets. Priority Mach Punch is really good too)
  • Sableye moved down from A to A- (also brought up in the previous thread. Sylveon hurts it and so do most other metagame shifts)
  • Toxicroak moved down from A- to B+ (Celebi's presence in the tier hurts this Pokemon a lot. It also has a lot of competition from Conkeldurr as a Fighting-type Pokemon that can pressure slower teams)
  • Florges moved down from A- to B+ (Massive competition from Sylveon yada yada yada Calm Mind and Synthesis give it a niche but aren't enough to keep it in the A ranks yada yada, everyone knows the reason behind this one by now)
  • Slowking moved down from B+ to B (same as Sableye, except that it also has to compete with at least 10 different Bulky Water-type Pokemon or so for a teamslot and Celebi's drop doesn't really help it at all)
  • Gardevoir moved down from B to B- (very few reasons to run this over Sylveon as an offensive Fairy-type Pokemon. Having a Fairy that can't resist Dark-type moves on your team is like having a cheesecake without cheese)
  • Magneton moved up from C+ to B- (discussed extensively in the old thread. Really good partner for Beedrill and a good standalone Volt Switch user as well)
  • Qwilfish moved down from B- to C+ (Exactly the same situation as Slowking. Its niche is nowhere near as valuable as it used to be in the past)
  • Registeel added to C+ (Plays a similar role to Bronzong without being Pursuit bait. Good check to Sylveon, Mega Aerodactyl and other common Pokemon that are relatively hard to stop)
Nominations:
  • Tangela being added to C-. Got brought up in the previous thread. Would appreciate some replays of it in action, considering that one of Tangrowth's biggest niches was being able to tank Knock Off from both Krookodile and Crawdaunt, which Tangela can't really do for obvious reasons. Leaning towards keeping it out of the rankings though.
  • Mega Beedrill moving up to A+. Really good Pokemon in the current metagame, especially considering that Mega Aerodactyl is often the sole answer to it on a lot of cookie-cutter builds.
  • Adding a Blacklist to keep the Delphox posters away.

I don't think there's anything else worth mentioning for now. Correct me if there's anything missing please. Happy posting!
 
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I really don't pay much attention to these but Moltres being in c suddenly caught my eye. Last I remembered it it was somewhere around b+ or whatever. Can somebody tell me reason it's so low? Meta trends seem to have been favorable to it if anything.

/ will delete if need more reserve posts
 
What was the reasoning for putting Conkeldurr so high up in A? Having it above Cobalion, with all of it's utility, or above Cress is absolutely ridiculous. Not calling it for a drop, just asking why it was risen so high (especially when it wasn't in the last slate.)
 

Hogg

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What was the reasoning for putting Conkeldurr so high up in A? Having it above Cobalion, with all of it's utility, or above Cress is absolutely ridiculous. Not calling it for a drop, just asking why it was risen so high (especially when it wasn't in the last slate.)
Conkeldurr was crazy underrated initially and its BU set in particular has been absolutely demolishing unprepared teams. Choice Band is also still a powerhouse with the strongest usable priority in the tier. I think moving it up to A was long-deserved.
 
I'd like to nominate Roserade to B Rank. Quite frankly, I don't think the meta has been very kind to it; its ability to absorb status isn't as useful anymore as we now have Celebi, which absorbs status, specifically scald, a lot better (and is another check to it). Its immediate offensive presence is great to have, yet losing out on longevity is usually not worth it. Offense is also by far the most dominant playstyle and there just aren't many mon whose presence it can abuse. On top of it, it is a mediocre fairy check as it gets 2HKO'd by Specs Sylveon's Hyper Voice while only having a 25% chance to OHKO back after SR. Despite Mence's absence meaning hazard removal is at an all time low, the ability to lay spikes does not seem like much of a saving grace in the face of its inability to lay down spikes against many teams. If I just wanted an offensive grass type, Celebi just seems like so much of a superior option that I barely think it is worth running Rose anymore. Add to that the popularity of Escavalier and Bronzong, two other great stops to its usual set, and I fail to see how it is on par with, say, Haxorus - and see its potential much closer to Heliolisk's, for example.

While I don't think Moltres is great, it is a scary mon (if it hits) unlike basically anything else in C Rank. I wouldn't be opposed to a small rise to C+.

About that Tangela nom: it can actually tank the Knock from Crawdaunt which is one of the reasons I think its niche is justified. It also doesn't fail to OHKO back (after LO recoil):

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 250-296 (74.8 - 88.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 260-308 (97 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Agreeing with Mega Beedrill to A+. It's a nasty mon to play around thanks for its obscenely strong U-turns made only harder by the plethora of amazing partners.
 

Adaam

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Just wanna add on to the Tangela hype after getting worked by a Tangela stall team on ladder. This thing is straight busted, with Eviolite it's fatter than Tangrowth and literally impossible to OHKO with a physical move (dodmen can confirm this we looked at some insane calcs it lives a CB Ho-Oh Brave Bird like come on). However, it is way too reliant on Eviolite which is why it should go no higher than C-, but we have plenty of physical Waters that threaten stall that justify its usage.

And just so this post isn't completely useless, I think we can clean up the C ranks a bit. What niche does Hitmonlee hold? It should definitely drop, the only reason why you would ever use it over Shao is for Rapid Spin but that niche is too specific to justify ranking it. Aromatisse should also drop off the rankings. When are you ever so weak to Taunt that you NEED to run this over Sylveon? Other things like Pangoro and Mega Glalie are just trash and don't see why anyone would ever run these outside of joke teams. Mamo + any other Mega is far more useful than any niche Glalie might hold and Panda is just ass lol.
 
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Hilomilo

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Nominating Porygon-Z to B-.
As much as I love Porygon-Z, it's not necessarily thriving in the current meta. By virtue of its pitiful bulk, PZ's double dance set is really hard to pull off without support or against a pokemon that's super passive and doesn't have toxic (which is a truly rare sight). It's choice specs set is capable of doing some damage, but considering its rather average speed tier and poor STAB coverage even with adaptability against mons like Blissey and MAero, this is another rather hard set to make good use of, especially considering how bad being choice locked onto a move can be. Choice scarf is another set that is riddled with flaws due to the lack of firepower PZ would have after nasty plot or specs boosts. Overall, this poor thing is struggling to find a set that is too effective against more than one or two prevalent play styles, and is relatively easy to work around considering how many common pokemon can take care of it (Conkeldurr, Cobalion, Sylveon) and how bad 95 speed is against offensive teams, which continue to grow in popularity. Time for a drop to B-, especially since another mediocre scarf user in Gardevoir now resides there.

While I can understand that the placements of pokemon in S-B+ rankings are not to be frequently discussed, I am a little surprised to see Infernape so low in A-. It is beyond offensively versatile, and is currently way more effective than the likes of Sableye and Whimsicott, who both have favorable matchups against play styles increasing in rarity. Conkeldurr's placement in A is also questionable, since it's seeming ridiculously placed above super splashable mons in Cresselia and Cobalion. Other than that, the current rankings seem fairly accurate and the slate is also hard to oppose.
 
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Manipulative

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Definitely in support of Mega Beedrill moving up. I wasn't happy about it dropping to begin with because Bee has always been ridiculously difficult to prepare for. Solid switch-ins to it have always been either passive as hell or difficult to fit onto teams. This hasn't changed, and in fact, has only become more true. Mons that guarantee switching into Bee comfortably include Gligar, Mega Steelix, Mega Aggron, and Forretress. Out of these four, only Forretress and Mega Aggron receive considerable attention in this meta, while the latter still isn't too popular. Some other Pokemon may deserve a shoutout but aren't the best answers. Pursuit Doublade is something that I know very few people have used and is still shaky regardless. Alomomola takes up to 51% from switching into an Adamant Poison Jab + Stealth Rock, and there's a 30% chance of it getting poisoned after that (potentially loses its Leftovers to Knock Off variants as well). Mons like Shuca Cobalion and (uninvested) Crobat were never very good answers to begin with either. The former is a very limited answer to Drill Run variants, while the latter takes a ton from Knock Off + Poison Jab (will drop if it takes prior damage from Stealth Rock). As Pearl mentioned already, a ton of builds like to slap on Pursuit Mega Aerodactyl and call it a day. This isn't surprising, as it's the best form of reasonable countermeasure that most teams can afford. Needless to say though, you're not going to be too secure against Bee. Not only does Bee thrive in an offensive meta (especially the current one), but its most common check cannot switch into it without taking a good chunk of damage. Mega Aerodactyl will most likely be forced to come in as a revenge killer against Bee, but even then it comes down to Pursuit mind games (and rolls).

The main issue that people seem to have against Mega Beedrill is its Stealth Rock weakness. And yes, I know that Hazard Removal in UU is at the worst it has been in a while. But in all honesty, how often do people actually have to forgo hazard removal in this tier? From my experience, not often enough for the Stealth Rock weakness alone to be what holds Bee back from a rise. There are still usable hazard removers such as Tentacruel, Empoleon, and Specially Defensive Forretress. The last of which, would be my personal favorite to pair up with Bee. On top of all the role compression it offers in one teamslot, Forretress forms a Volturn core with Bee while also giving the team a switch-in to opposing Bee. Another great feature about pairing Forretress with Bee is that Forretress gives you a safe switch-in to Celebi (bar the incredibly uncommon HP Fire variant) and can then Volt Switch out to let Bee in for free. Anyways, yes, you're practically forced to run Hazard Removal if you're using Bee, but it's not the worst thing in the world and the vast majority of UU teams utilize Hazard Removal anyway.

All in all, Mega Beedrill is the single best momentum grabber in the tier, is ridiculous to prepare well enough against, and has only improved with recent metagame changes. I think it deserves its spot back in A+.


I also want to take this chance to nominate Forretress to B+. Like I was saying earlier, Specially Defensive Forretress is quite usable as a hazard remover in this meta. It offers a bunch of role compression, including being a switch-in to Specs Sylveon's Hyper Voice. On top of all that though, Forretress isn't nearly as bad of a spinner right now as everyone had always sworn it to be. In the current meta, where every single spinblocker has been greatly hindered one way or another (Think: Krookodile, Sylveon), it's much easier for Forretress to succeed at its role. Also, when I look at the rest of the B rank, Forretress certainly sticks out to me in terms of splashability and performance in this meta.
 

Pearl

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is quagsire gonna be in D rank or what
Umbreon and Quagsire should probably be ranked. If I'm not mistaken, Umbreon was suppose to be ranked around B rank and Quagsire around C-Rank.
Umbreon was already missing in the last thread, and since I copy pasted most stuff from there it was still missing in this one. Added to B, thanks a lot!

Completely forgot about Quagsire, so that one is my bad. I'll let the community discuss its niche before adding it to the list though, but I think C- is a fine spot for it, considering that its utility is limited to stall teams that need insurance against certain physical set up sweepers like Cobalion, HC Aero and Toxicroak, which other bulky Water/Ground-types can also check at a healthy HP %. Otherwise, Swampert or even Seismitoad/Gastrodon are always better.

I really don't pay much attention to these but Moltres being in c suddenly caught my eye. Last I remembered it it was somewhere around b+ or whatever. Can somebody tell me reason it's so low? Meta trends seem to have been favorable to it if anything.

/ will delete if need more reserve posts
This post is fine (I could reserve more posts for extra likes, but I'll be fine with just these hehe). Honestly, and like my good friend GrilledClawitzer said, I'm okay with moving it up to C+, mostly based on its ability to cripple some "guaranteed safe switch ins" with Will-O-Wisp and its strong Flying-type STAB. However, it requires way too much support for what it brings to the team to be moved up any higher than the C ranks. For example, Moltres teams are pretty much always forced to run either Tentacruel or Empoleon (Mega Blastoise could work too, but the combination is way too weak to blanket special walls like Sylveon/Florges/Blissey/even Milotic, although that always runs physically defensive sets) and more than one good Mega Aerodactyl check. Those teams also end up being a little slower than usual and as a consequence, vulnerable to some faster threats. Look at Hairy Toenail's Moltres team, since it's probably the best Moltres team around right now and covers all of the bases I mentioned. It can do lots of damage in good match ups, but the same goes for Kingdra, Linda and even Dugtrio.

And just so this post isn't completely useless, I think we can clean up the C ranks a bit. What niche does Hitmonlee hold? It should definitely drop, the only reason why you would ever use it over Shao is for Rapid Spin but that niche is too specific to justify ranking it. Aromatisse should also drop off the rankings. When are you ever so weak to Taunt that you NEED to run this over Sylveon? Other things like Pangoro and Mega Glalie are just trash and don't see why anyone would ever run these outside of joke teams. Mamo + any other Mega is far more useful than any niche Glalie might hold and Panda is just ass lol.
Agreed. The council revamped the C ranks a some time ago, so they used to be even worse. Expect some changes in the next 2 updates at least.
 
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Oh, alright then. Thanks for explaining the Moltres things, you guys.

Now, regarding Hitmonlee, I've gotta say that it really should be unranked. This is coming from somebody with (arguably) one of the better Hitmonlee teams out there even if outdated. The fact that it's so frail doesn't help it at all, and it can't even really do much in terms of spinning. I know unburden is scary in the right circumstances like liechi berry endure but otherwise it has no real niche because other things do everything just about better.

Maybe to c- or whatever if it's not there because of the sheer danger of endure + liechi (because not much in uu can reliably switch in to a 200 bp move at + 1) but it dies so fast it honestly would be better to just unrank it.
 
I also support Cruel to A. It still does the same thing it's always done, but with the removal of Salamence it is by far the most splashable hazard remover. The tier losing one of its hazard removers also makes tspikes much better. In addition to this it can pivot into two of the scariest attackers for balance in Conk (Not BU because it just sets up) and Sylv. Sorry about shit post but I'm on mobile so bleh. Also just wanted to follow up on Kink's post as soon as possible.
 

pokemonisfun

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Regarding Tangela (apologies in advance, I know you guys probably have better things to do than discuss whether a <1% usage mon should be C or C- or unranked but hey this is what I have experience with so...)

I still think Tangela is C- rank worthy but if you guys are planning to clean up C rank so things like Aromatisse and Venusaur and Pangoro drop off to unranked, then maybe I will consider Tangela not worthy of a rank too. Basically my argument is that Tangela is about the same level of usefulness of these guys (or a bit higher actually) because it has amazing physical bulk and Regenerator so it can counter many threats.

The only replays I have are me laddering

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-420790097

Tangela does a good job of countering DD Feraligatr, and is in my opinion a safer switch in to Feraligatr than Alomomola because Alomomola can be tricked by Sub Feraligatr (which might be eclipsed by Gyarados but still better safe I guess)

EDIT: and to both his credit and mine I guess, this is why I was stupid enough to keep Tangela in on a Beedrill when it was potentially my only Gatr counter http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-420723287
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-420730169

Tangela helps form a core with Alomomola to counter Sableye - something Chesnaught obviously cannot perform

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-183749

Technically a tour game but of "low ladder" quality (I'm sure my opponent could have won if they didn't start of 4-6 but they are sort of ridiculously weak to one of the best Pokemon in the tier and thats not really okay). If you imagine Tangela over Tangrowth it does basically the same thing - strips my opponent of many items which is ultimately crippling and helps kill Chandelure for instance.


I know these replays do not address Tangela's main weakness - reliance on Eviolite and still pathetic Special Defense - but I promise you I have played so many ladder games with Tangela and the thing about it is on stall you often only need Tangela to counter one or two Pokemon - like Crawdaunt and maybe CroCune - and it is fine with being Knocked Off in this scenario. What I mean is that the Pokemon Tangela counters it counters so badly it does not really need the Eviolite (Krookodile and Crawdaunt) and then it can still come in on defensive Pokemon to Knock them off. Yes Mega Absol and Conkeldurr is sort of a problem but it is not as if Tangrowth or Chesnaught can counter them reliably either because of Fire Blast / Bulk Up. And again C- is quite low rank, nobody is claiming Tangela should be mainstream, I'm saying its on par with basically never seen Pokemon like Glalie Mega and Granbull.

Of course I don't always win with Tangela

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-420737385

Even if the result does not show it, I think Tangela did an appreciable amount of work, revealing AV Krookodile lol and helping me almost kill Moltres. If I did that I might not have been so disadvantaged despite the Dugtrio weakness; Knocking Off Moltres' Leftovers was good and nearly let it die to Mega Aero trapping.

There was a game I wish I saved which I won because Tangela's ridiculous bulk - it tanked a HJK from ScarfShao and then LO Icicle Crash from Mamoswine and killed both. This is something Tangrowth actually could not do.
 
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Hey! I believe that Jellicent deserves a drop. I know it is already pretty low at B rank, but I feel it needs to be a bit lower because of the following reasons.

Jellicent was once a pretty independent part of UU. It's abilities to break down cores was quite underrated in the Zapdos meta and as of now, teams have multiple switch ins to Jellicent with little to no consequence. Some very common switch ins to Jellicent include, Celebi, Hydreigon, and Sylveon. All of these pokemon abuse the chance to have a free turn to either set up or just to come in and bomb the opposing team. The worst part, however, is the popularity of revenge killers. Krookodile easily threatens Jellicent's survivability with an easy Knock off KO or a predicted switch via pursuit.

Jellicent's defensive capabilities are much to be desired. While its typing is very good as a defensive wall, the defensive stat is rather low. This allows things like Beedrill to get away with firing off a poison jab and U-turning out leaving Jellicent at a low 50%. This thing also sucks at being an entei counter. No form of status recovery does run its course on Jellicent's survivability. In fact, to properly wall any of the pokemon it should, you really need to be running max defense which kinda kills the purpose of running Jellicent in the first place.

Jellicent does have some good match ups with some very common pokemon like Empoleon, Swampert, Metagross, and Bronzong. The problem with these is that they all have stealth rocks. So basically you come in on these pokemon, they set up rocks, and switch out to Celebi or Hydreigon and POOF! You have lost momentum and rocks are up. To make Jellicent work, you have to kill off 1-2 pokemon on the opposing team before you even dent a thing. That is not a very good option. There is also the constant mind games. "I want to taunt this swampert to prevent rocks, but if Krook comes in, then I'm screwed. I want to wilo this blissey predicting the Krook, but what if blissey goes for toxic?" Everything is like a 50/50 with this pokemon. In the Zapdos meta, at least wilo wisp was a nice middle ground play for mega sceptile or zapdos coming in. But now there is no middle ground. There are just pokemon that completely shut Jellicent down.

B to B-
 

Attachments

Tentacruel is the best spinner in the tier but it's not even good.

Thank god this isn't the UU "Good rankings" because being the only spinner even as a piece of garbage makes tentacruel extremely viable. So I support the nomination to rise it.
 

Freeroamer

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There was some support for Shark dropping in the last thread which I still agree with, the playstyle I feel it performs best on(straight out HO) is kinda whack rn and it often gets eschewed in favour of either Gyarados(more defensive utility, not a mega) or MPert(again more defensive utility, not that thats difficult lol). However the one thing that it admittedly does have in it's favour is that unlike Mpert especially it couldn't rly give a shit about Celebi unless it's Colbur which is quite rare in my experiences. It sharing a rank with Mega Scep and Bee seems silly though.

Metagross still seems better than the majority of the pokemon it shares a rank with, it can go so many ways and it's very rare that it'll be absolutely no use in a game. Offensive Fairy resists are super good in this meta although Hydreigon and Krookodile being around make life tough, neither ever really want to switch in though so there's that.

Minor detail but I think Krook and Sylveon should move to the top of A+. Entei will always have huge threat level but Krook and Sylveon are so easy to fit on teams(their usage in Open is only testament to this) and combine both offensive and defensive characteristics brilliantly. They also require very very little support whereas to get the best out of Entei you want hazard removal straight away which is kinda meh in current UU.
 
seeing crawdaunt in B+ makes me lol at the time when people thought that it could be broken for the tier

also could there be a rise for kyurem? its specs set is quite strong, specs ice beam only hitting like some percentage weaker than specs hyper voice, and specs draco actually out damaging
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress: 118-140 (33.3 - 39.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Fortress: 150-177 (42.3 - 50%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress: 171-202 (48.3 - 57%)

while also being able to run much better coverage for resists and stuff.
It still kinda gets walled by water types and steel types, but it makes up for it by being a decently fast wallbreaker able to outspeed Krook and entei and 2KOing after rocks.
Speaking of rocks, it does need hazard support to take advantage of its decent typing and bulk, being able to switch into scalds and celebi pretty easily.

With salamence leaving, i feel like there's less pressure on kyurem in terms of a faster dragon type leaving, and fewer dragon checks being felt necessary.

You can also run a dual specs kyurem sylveon core to weaken common checks lol

Also if you're able to craft a proper god squad with Tspikes u can run sub roost kyurem and just (pressure) stall away. Its unfortunate this doesn't get CM otherwise it'd be broken lmao
 
Definitely supporting the nom for PZ to drop. Offense is at its peak, which means were seeing a lot more of Conkeldurr, Infernape and fighting types in general, and all of its sets are lacking in a crucial area, being wallbreaking power or poor speed or in the case of its double dance set, reliance on support. Definitely not as on par with mons like Heliolisk and Dragalage as it is with Espeon or Shuckle.

Tentacruel could probably afford to rise to A, considering that hazard control is such a necessity and its the meta's best spinner without much competition. Wouldn't mind seeing it stay in A- though, since it isn't amazing at providing much offensive pressure outside of scald burns.

Kyurem is another rise that I could see happening, but the prevalence of Hydreigon, Sylveon, MAero etc. could keep it in B+.

What I think should happen before Kyurem's rise is Sableye's and Whimsicott's drops from A- to low B+. Both have no offensive presences and can't take even neutral hits to save their lives. Prankster provides them with reliable niches against setup sweepers, sure, but are those niches going to keep us from realizing that they both match up poorly against a lot of prominent threats in the meta? Sylveon tears through Sab and bypasses Whim's substitute, and Entei can OHKO and/or burn both with a banded flare blitz/sacred fire. Definitely can't compare these two to Infernape or Nidoqueen anymore. That is all.
 

Adaam

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Whimsicott is a catch all pivot for offense that checks set up sweepers, physical Waters, and Dragons in one team slot while providing a powerful speed tier and amazing utility moves in Memento, Tailwind, and Stun Spore. The amount of utility it provides is more than enough to justify its A- rank despite its mediocre bulk and low offensive presence, although invested Moonblasts do dent a lot of Pokemon like Cobalion.
 

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