Lower Tiers ORAS NU Role Compendium

Xatu should be under Malamar checks, and perhaps Vileplume since Worry Seed.
Lilligant Checks:
Offensive:

Defensive:


I probably went too far and listed some stuff that's too niche but w/e
i'd say remove zwei, frax and zeb from offensive checks and it's good
 
I don't see anything wrong with zebstrika being used as an offensive lilligant check, is hp ground that common?
 
Zebstrika is a good offensive check to 2 dangerous quiver dance sleep powder users in Vivillon and Lilligant if it runs Sap Sipper since it resists/immune to their respective Stabs (Vivillon usually doesnt have space for Bug Buzz) and is only vulnerable to the rare HP Ground and it can then proceed to Outspeed if not +1 and Bop them with a Tbolt/OVerheat.
 

Ren-chon

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Xatu should be under Malamar checks, and perhaps Vileplume since Worry Seed.
Lilligant Checks:
Offensive:

Defensive:


I probably went too far and listed some stuff that's too niche but w/e
Add Bouffalant and Combusken as offensive checks, and maybe Arbok and Scyther too.
@EDIT
Oh, and hariyama too.
 
i think this can be fixed up a bit to remove some of the more unviable sets in order to make it more accurate.
  • Lilligant should be taken out of Healing Wish users, choice sets are pretty bad and it doesnt really have room for HW on quiver sets
  • Vileplume should be taken out of Aromatherapy users cause aroma on plume is pretty awful in this meta and leaves it as gears / skunk fodder
  • Xatu under defensive malamar checks b/c its a psychic type that can use signal beam D:
  • Cryo is not a defensive water type check lol
  • ik that mantine isn't above C+, but it really should be and it should be in defensive hazard control
there's probably others, but thats just what i noticed for now.
 
I think Mega-audino should be added to the normal type checks
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Mega Audino: 134-160 (32.7 - 39.1%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO
Using that spread as an example, most audinos run more def.

Also pyroar isn't really a good audino check, nor is mesprit unless it's bulky and runs calm mind, which is near enough never seen ever right now.

I also think musharna should be added to the archeops checks for obvious reasons.
 
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-Cryogonal needs to be removed from Defensive Hazard Removers, I thought we had already established that it should only ever be offensive, because its niche is being the fastest rapid spinner in the tier, something the Defensive set is not.

-Also Garbodor should be added to defensive Malamar and Mega Audino checks for obvoius reasons.

-Shiftry should be added to the Nasty plot section of set-up sweepers.
 
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Disjunction

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Guys I'm just going to start deleting nominations for Pokemon that are under C+. It's been discussed not only multiple times in this thread but not even 3 posts ago. Please just read the rules.
 
-Cryogonal needs to be removed from Defensive Hazard Removers, I thought we had already established that it should only ever be offensive, because its niche is being the fastest rapid spinner in the tier, something the Defensive set is not.

-Also Garbodor should be added to defensive Malamar and Mega Audino checks for obvoius reasons.

-Shiftry should be added to the Nasty plot section of set-up sweepers.
Garbodor doesn't beat rest-talk malamar 1v1. And as long as Mega-Audino doesn't get poisoned by gunk shot, the usual set can set up calm minds on garb. It's definitely not a Malamar check since it can set up on Garb, and it's a shaky Mega-Audino check since you're relying on not missing and getting a poison if it's the wish protect set.
 
Garbodor doesn't beat rest-talk malamar 1v1. And as long as Mega-Audino doesn't get poisoned by gunk shot, the usual set can set up calm minds on garb. It's definitely not a Malamar check since it can set up on Garb, and it's a shaky Mega-Audino check since you're relying on not missing and getting a poison if it's the wish protect set.
First garbodor does beat Malamar 1v1. It has to Superpower to be effective, and it takes Rocky Helmet damage (unless it gets Knocked Off and it still takes the damage then) and Gunk Shot can still poison, which can pretty easily stack damage. Gunk Shot whittles it down, and there's still the Aftermath damage if Garb does faint, which does like 25% most of the time, which can still lead Malamar to be revenge killed (with special attacks, obviously). Also, Gunk Shot does like a little over 50% to a lot of Mega Audino sets, so yes, it is a check and it can also use Audino as Spikes fodder.
 
So to end this speculation on whether or not Garbodor beats Malamar 1v1 and preventing this discussion from further swallowing up this thread I actually tested it with evidence.

Defensive Garbodor, the most common set, literally never defeats Malamar unless consecutive gunk shot crits
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-300009487

Even with RNG super in favor of Garbodor (I land all Gunk shots, first one poisons, and all sleep talks get rest) Garbodor can never beat it 1v1

Offensive Max Attack Garbodor only beats Malamar provided it hasn't gotten off a single superpower otherwise it walls you indefinitely provided no consecutive gunk shot crits
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-300010598

Garbodor does ~60% to non-boosted Malamar and then the garbage outspeeds and kills the following turn before it can rest. (Poison didn't matter)

If Malamar superpowers on the Garbodor switch Malamar wins
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-300012110
Malamar superpowers on the Garbodor, malamar goes for another superpower takes ~35% then rests up and walls it indefinitely provided no consecutive crits.
Garbodor is not a reliable or good malamar check it is a super solid switch in though.

Conclusion:
Defensive Garbodor (the most prominent set) is definitely not a Malamar check, gunk shot is never a 2hko barring crits. Only time it beats is consecutive gunk shot crits or Malamar has no boosts and is lower than 40% hp

Offensive Garbodor only beats Malamar provided it hasn't superpowered yet even then it is incredibly shaky because of gunk shot missing.



So yea, Garbodor is not a Malamar check it is just a super solid switch in. The few times it beats Malamar is often shaky at best because gunk shot is super unreliable (it is not going to hit and poison everytime stop acting like it will). The few times Garbodor actually beats Malamar is so marginally slim that it is not worth including on the compendium especially because the defensive set is the most seen and generally better set.
 

Disjunction

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Hey dudes, I conferenced with bolts and we both decided that this is mostly complete. Considering there's no outstanding issues with the compendium, we've decided to keep it locked, at least until drops happen. If there are any outstanding complaints with the list that we've somehow missed over the several months of scrutiny it's undergone, feel free to message bolts, or even myself, about it.

Thanks!
 

boltsandbombers

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Updates:

Sceptile: Added to Archeops Checks, Water checks, Special Wallbreakers, Mixed Wallbreakers, and Swords Dance.
Steelix: Added to Stealth Rock users, Normal Checks, Psychic Checks, Archeops Checks, Electric Immunities, and Mega Audino Checks.
Altaria: Added to Fire Checks and Heal Bell users. Didn't add to setup sweepers since I'm unsure on Dragon Dance's viability as a set.
Camerupt: Added to Stealth Rockers, Fire Checks, Defensive Electric Immunities, Offensive Electric Immunities, and Special Wallbreakers.
Pinsir: Added to Stealth Rockers, Malamar Checks, Psychic Checks, Physical Wallbreakers, and Swords Dance users.
Removed Ursaring.

e: did the below
 
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