OM Analyses Discussion Thread

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What do I do if there’s a slight inconsistency in an analysis? (Mostly referring to BH Seismitoad mentioning Solar Blade Darmanitan-Galar-Zen despite saying Galarian Darmanitan-Z earlier in the analysis) Or maybe I’m paying too much attention to detail.
 

dhelmise

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What do I do if there’s a slight inconsistency in an analysis? (Mostly referring to BH Seismitoad mentioning Solar Blade Darmanitan-Galar-Zen despite saying Galarian Darmanitan-Z earlier in the analysis) Or maybe I’m paying too much attention to detail.
BH Seismitoad doesn't say that
 
Referring to this section on Imposter:

“Seismitoad's typing gives it an exploitable 4x weakness to Grass-type attacks, so Imposter users like Wobbuffet are useful teammates to scout for lure sets like Power Whip Zeraora and Solar Blade Darmanitan-Galar-Zen.”
 

dhelmise

everything is embarrassing
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Referring to this section on Imposter:

“Seismitoad's typing gives it an exploitable 4x weakness to Grass-type attacks, so Imposter users like Wobbuffet are useful teammates to scout for lure sets like Power Whip Zeraora and Solar Blade Darmanitan-Galar-Zen.”
That line does not say that. Reload your page.

It says:
Seismitoad's typing gives it an exploitable 4x weakness to Grass-type attacks, so Imposter users like Wobbuffet are useful teammates to scout for lure sets like Power Whip Zeraora and Solar Blade Galarian Darmanitan-Z.
 
I know galarian darmanitan for national dex analysis is already published, but this is relatively small, the 4 spdef on the set should be changed to 4 def so you can avoid ohko from mgross bullet punch from full
you may want to wait until after the suspect to put this in idk
 

Geysers

not round
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There are a handful of typoes in the new AG excadrill analysis, namely ”gettingbeing” near the end of the first paragraph, and “it said foe” should be shortened to “said foe”. Just to be clear, this is not GP’s fault, and happened because the GP check was improperly implemented.
 
https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/vulpix/nfe/

I know this is recent, and i was thinking of mentioning it when it was still in GP check, but i don't think I have the right to do so, so I waited for upload and say it here. Anywho

"Solar Beam can also be used instead of Toxic to threaten Water-types like Palpitoad and Wartortle; "
NFE Vulpix has Solar Beam mentioned, which it doesn't naturally learn it. Ninetales does get it, but not Vulpix. Perhaps its referring to Energy Ball?
 

AllTerrainVen0moth

Banned deucer.
I would like to propose the addition of Blastoisnite Indeedee-M to Mix and Mega sets.

Indeedee (M) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Terrain Pulse
- Hyper Voice
- Energy Ball
- Mystical Fire

With Psychic Surge already boosting its Terrain Pulse to astounding levels, Blastoisnite makes sense to boost Terrain Pulse to a base power of 292.5.

50 x 2 (active terrain) x 1.3 (psychic terrain's effect) x 1.5 (stab) x 1.5 (mega launcher) = 292.5
 
Last edited:

AllTerrainVen0moth

Banned deucer.
Add these sets to ZU (most were from the vr)
Stonjourner @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Heat Crash
- Earthquake
- Self-Destruct

Stonjourner @ Choice Band
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Heat Crash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Stonjourner @ Life Orb
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Heat Crash
- Earthquake

----------

Gourgeist-Large @ Choice Band
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant or Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Poltergeist
- Shadow Sneak
- Trick / Rock Slide



Gourgeist-Large
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Synthesis
- Power Whip
- Foul Play / Poltergeist


Gourgeist-Large @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Poltergeist
- Flame Charge
- Rock Slide / Shadow Sneak

-----

grapploct is banned

-----

Vespiquen (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish or Careful Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic

------

Mr. Mime-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Nasty Plot
- Freeze-Dry
- Focus Blast / Psychic


Mr. Mime-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty PLot
- Freeze Dry
- Psychic
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball


---

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Volt Switch
- Knock Off

---

Raichu @ Choice Specs
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Surf
- Focus Blast



Raichu @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch / Focus Blast
- Surf

---

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD OR 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm or Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

---

Fraxure @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- First Impression
- Superpower
- Scale Shot / Poison Jab



Fraxure @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant or Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
- Scale Shot / Outrage
- Poison Jab
- Superpower / Stomping Tantrum

---

Gothitelle @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Toxic / Nasty Plot
- Rest
- Stored Power



Gothitelle @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

---

Hattrem (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 244 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam / Giga Drain
- Nuzzle
- Healing Wish



Hattrem (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

---

Mr. Mime @ Choice Scarf or Choice Specs
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Healing Wish / Trick


Mr. Mime @ Life Orb or Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball

---

Emolga @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Volt Switch
- Air Slash



Emolga @ Choice Specs
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Air Slash
- Energy Ball
- U-turn

---

Grookey @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Wood Hammer

---

Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant or Jolly Nature
- Strength
- Facade
- Superpower
- Crunch



Stoutland @ Life Orb or Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Strength
- Superpower
- Crunch
- Facade / Howl

---

Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Wood Hammer
- Rock Slide
- Shadow Claw / Sucker Punch



Trevenant @ Assault Vest
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Poltergeist
- Shadow Claw
- Sucker Punch

---

Dedenne @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Super Fang / Toxic



Dedenne @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- U-turn / Volt Switch
- Toxic / Nuzzle

--

Krokorok @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Earthquake


Krokorok @ Choice Scarf or Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly or Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Crunch / Iron Tail

---

Palpitoad @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earth Power

---

Pyukumuku @ Leftovers or Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold or Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Rest / Block
- Soak / Spite

---

Seaking @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 32 SpD / 4 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Protect

Seaking @ Lum Berry
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Scale Shot

---

Carkol @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def or 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Relaxed or Sassy Nature
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Blast
- Flamethrower

---

Dugtrio @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect / Substitute
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

---

Dunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def or 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Impish or Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Toxic / Glare
- Body Slam / Headbutt

---

Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic / Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam

---

Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn

---

Whirlipede @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Toxic
- Infestation
- Protect



Whirlipede @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Toxic
- Poison Jab
- Rest

---

Seadra @ Choice Scarf or Choice Specs
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn
- Scald

---

Slowpoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Slack Off
- Teleport

---


Poliwhirl @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
 

viet noa

eating neopronoun pizza at little xe/xyrs
is a Pre-Contributor
these sets can be added to zu ! :>
Specs Stakeout
Thievul @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Parting Shot
- Burning Jealousy
- Psychic / Grass Knot

Stealth Rock
Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Offensive Support
Alcremie @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Recover
- Aromatherapy / Calm Mind

Choice Specs
Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Pulse / Hydro Pump
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- U-Turn

Choice Attacker
Manectric @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Switcheroo
 
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but are there any plans to update the reservation spreadsheet? That thing is really far out of date (like, Sneasel is still listed under ZU despite the fact that it was banned in February, and also every single Pokemon under ZU is listed as unreserved). Sorry if this sounded aggressive, I just wanted to bring it up.
 

S1nn0hC0nfirm3d

aka Ho3nConfirm3d
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a defending SCL Champion
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but are there any plans to update the reservation spreadsheet? That thing is really far out of date (like, Sneasel is still listed under ZU despite the fact that it was banned in February, and also every single Pokemon under ZU is listed as unreserved). Sorry if this sounded aggressive, I just wanted to bring it up.
ZU's is up to date now. Sorry for the late update! ZU went through so many VR updates, bans, and also had so many on-site + in progress analyses that the QC team was booked with those priorities first. It should be accurate at the time of this post.
 
ZU's is up to date now. Sorry for the late update! ZU went through so many VR updates, bans, and also had so many on-site + in progress analyses that the QC team was booked with those priorities first. It should be accurate at the time of this post.
Yep, looks good now, only one problem: the Silvally-Water cells contain the sheet’s header as opposed to having the Unreserved cell colored green.
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
hello

it’s no secret that the state of analyses in gen 8 is not very good. even ou is having struggles getting past the sample set phase as we near 1 year post-tundra. oms have been hit by this especially hard; i can’t speak for others like aaa and mnm but in bh it’s been super rough having everything pre-dlc2 be invalidated and struggling to get started afterwards cause of all the suspects we’ve had to get through. i can barely imagine putting in all that work when things like court change suspect or dp remakes are on the horizon.

so what should we do with the analysis format? i think to make it as dynamic and up-to-date as possible, analyses should be an extension of existing metagame discussion. we should start with the existing good teams and high-level games as groundwork for analyses, rather than saying a bunch of empty stuff like “ground type goes well with fairy type, wow”.

here’s an example set for this new format:
[SET]
name: Fur Coat
move 1: Hex
move 2: Nuzzle
move 3: Core Enforcer
move 4: Roost
item: Rocky Helmet
ability: Fur Coat
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set serves as both a physical wall that can shrug off many attackers and as a very threatening Pokemon that can break open teams with Nuzzle + Hex. Lunala does a poor job switching into STAB or otherwise boosted Dark- and Ghost-type moves as well as Sunsteel Strike users, but other than that it has no notable weaknesses. Rocky Helmet forces foes to recover more often, giving Lunala more opportunities to click Nuzzle and Hex while staying healthy itself. Core Enforcer performs well against some Poison Heal Regigigas sets such as Glacial Lance/Precipice Blades and also deals notable damage to Zygarde-C, which is immune to Nuzzle.

[EXAMPLE TEAM] https://pokepast.es/97f272fcf82bf4d8

Here, Soundproof Dialga and Spectral Thief Poison Heal Regigigas are employed to counter every Xerneas variant as well as other special attackers like Kyurem-W and Spectrier. Glacial Lance Regigigas can break through Zygarde-C and Dialga can punish overly passive setups with Trick. Triage Celesteela takes advantage of Lunala weakening and paralyzing specially defensive walls such as Ice Scales Zamazenta-C. Imposter Chansey provides a Giratina switchin and a counter to Kartana’s Sunsteel Strike.

[EXAMPLE GAME] https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1365854626

After scouting sets with Imposter Chansey to ensure Lunala doesn’t take a poison or paralysis, the breaking gameplan can begin. Celesteela is sent in first to weaken Heatran, opening the game up for Lunala to break through. Dialga and Chansey help manage the opposing offensive initiative, which would otherwise be quicker at making progress than Lunala is. Ho-Oh is annoying to break through, but loses to both Toxic and Nuzzle long-term and lacks the power necessary to KO Lunala.

what are the advantages of this new format?
  • i like the idea of moving to set-based instead of mon-based analyses in general. i could write 10 paragraphs on triage celesteela (i probably have by now) but every word i write about psea celesteela is an absolute slog. in the same vein, even something like spikes or boots on fc lunala is something i’m much less familiar with than someone who actually used it would be.
  • people like writing about their teams and games cause it’s fun.
  • less work to do overall—don’t have to worry about all the weird ways to use the set in team options. this feels especially hard in oms where the number of possibilities is so high and it feels like a lot of analyses can default to recommending generally solid mons like zamac or imposter then conjuring up some explanation for why they synergize with the set.
  • the sets that ‘feel’ viable but everyone hates and no one actually uses (specs adapt lunala might be one example) don’t have to be written about.
  • providing concrete examples does wonders for showing how metas are built and played at a high level. also current metagame knowledge! wow!

what are the disadvantages/questions of this new format?
  • qc gets kind of weird here. obviously not all teams/games should make it through, but it’s hard to rigorously enforce it, you have to make a choice between letting ladder hero type stuff in and being elitist which does not sound very fun either way.
  • in general, which games are more helpful to include? is it more helpful to include an extremely subtle win against a similarly skilled player where the mon puts in 1.2 mons’ worth of work, or a more dominant win against a ladder player where the mon immediately gives you a winning position? should multiple games be included for this purpose?
  • it might be hard to find games that showcase a more passive mon that never wins games on its own, like a prank set in bh. is it ok to provide replays where, for example, the set is sacrificed to get small damage on a key threat and prevent it from auto winning? is it ok to have staged replays that serve the purpose of demonstrating what the set does?
  • you might have a slow time if there’s no big tour going on at the time. there’s a risk of people just not being very active in the meta in general, which you can’t solve with this.
  • this format is a bit less comprehensive and leaves some holes about how to get started on the metagame in a more general sense compared to the old analysis format (for example, removing the “usage tips” section for a bh prank mon might leave a new player confused on how to use it to combat setup). i think the best way to get around this is to work on more general metagame guides or articles.
  • checks/counters and other options are kind of annoying if we are moving to a set-based thing, maybe checks/counters should be moved to set as well?
  • slight set variations are really difficult here. to use an earlier example, should i have to slash boots or spikes on fc lunala despite being unqualified to talk about them? should each variation require its own team and replay?
  • there’s a little issue with team and game privacy, hopefully there aren’t many potential contributors who are dissuaded by having to reveal their team.

om analyses were cool in gen 7, and i think we have a big opportunity to make them even cooler now despite the poor hand gen 8 has dealt us. i would appreciate any help in improving this new format and working through the concerns. thanks for reading!!!
 

S1nn0hC0nfirm3d

aka Ho3nConfirm3d
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a defending SCL Champion
hello

it’s no secret that the state of analyses in gen 8 is not very good. even ou is having struggles getting past the sample set phase as we near 1 year post-tundra. oms have been hit by this especially hard; i can’t speak for others like aaa and mnm but in bh it’s been super rough having everything pre-dlc2 be invalidated and struggling to get started afterwards cause of all the suspects we’ve had to get through. i can barely imagine putting in all that work when things like court change suspect or dp remakes are on the horizon.

so what should we do with the analysis format? i think to make it as dynamic and up-to-date as possible, analyses should be an extension of existing metagame discussion. we should start with the existing good teams and high-level games as groundwork for analyses, rather than saying a bunch of empty stuff like “ground type goes well with fairy type, wow”.

here’s an example set for this new format:
[SET]
name: Fur Coat
move 1: Hex
move 2: Nuzzle
move 3: Core Enforcer
move 4: Roost
item: Rocky Helmet
ability: Fur Coat
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set serves as both a physical wall that can shrug off many attackers and as a very threatening Pokemon that can break open teams with Nuzzle + Hex. Lunala does a poor job switching into STAB or otherwise boosted Dark- and Ghost-type moves as well as Sunsteel Strike users, but other than that it has no notable weaknesses. Rocky Helmet forces foes to recover more often, giving Lunala more opportunities to click Nuzzle and Hex while staying healthy itself. Core Enforcer performs well against some Poison Heal Regigigas sets such as Glacial Lance/Precipice Blades and also deals notable damage to Zygarde-C, which is immune to Nuzzle.

[EXAMPLE TEAM] https://pokepast.es/97f272fcf82bf4d8

Here, Soundproof Dialga and Spectral Thief Poison Heal Regigigas are employed to counter every Xerneas variant as well as other special attackers like Kyurem-W and Spectrier. Glacial Lance Regigigas can break through Zygarde-C and Dialga can punish overly passive setups with Trick. Triage Celesteela takes advantage of Lunala weakening and paralyzing specially defensive walls such as Ice Scales Zamazenta-C. Imposter Chansey provides a Giratina switchin and a counter to Kartana’s Sunsteel Strike.

[EXAMPLE GAME] https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1365854626

After scouting sets with Imposter Chansey to ensure Lunala doesn’t take a poison or paralysis, the breaking gameplan can begin. Celesteela is sent in first to weaken Heatran, opening the game up for Lunala to break through. Dialga and Chansey help manage the opposing offensive initiative, which would otherwise be quicker at making progress than Lunala is. Ho-Oh is annoying to break through, but loses to both Toxic and Nuzzle long-term and lacks the power necessary to KO Lunala.

what are the advantages of this new format?
  • i like the idea of moving to set-based instead of mon-based analyses in general. i could write 10 paragraphs on triage celesteela (i probably have by now) but every word i write about psea celesteela is an absolute slog. in the same vein, even something like spikes or boots on fc lunala is something i’m much less familiar with than someone who actually used it would be.
  • people like writing about their teams and games cause it’s fun.
  • less work to do overall—don’t have to worry about all the weird ways to use the set in team options. this feels especially hard in oms where the number of possibilities is so high and it feels like a lot of analyses can default to recommending generally solid mons like zamac or imposter then conjuring up some explanation for why they synergize with the set.
  • the sets that ‘feel’ viable but everyone hates and no one actually uses (specs adapt lunala might be one example) don’t have to be written about.
  • providing concrete examples does wonders for showing how metas are built and played at a high level. also current metagame knowledge! wow!

what are the disadvantages/questions of this new format?
  • qc gets kind of weird here. obviously not all teams/games should make it through, but it’s hard to rigorously enforce it, you have to make a choice between letting ladder hero type stuff in and being elitist which does not sound very fun either way.
  • in general, which games are more helpful to include? is it more helpful to include an extremely subtle win against a similarly skilled player where the mon puts in 1.2 mons’ worth of work, or a more dominant win against a ladder player where the mon immediately gives you a winning position? should multiple games be included for this purpose?
  • it might be hard to find games that showcase a more passive mon that never wins games on its own, like a prank set in bh. is it ok to provide replays where, for example, the set is sacrificed to get small damage on a key threat and prevent it from auto winning? is it ok to have staged replays that serve the purpose of demonstrating what the set does?
  • you might have a slow time if there’s no big tour going on at the time. there’s a risk of people just not being very active in the meta in general, which you can’t solve with this.
  • this format is a bit less comprehensive and leaves some holes about how to get started on the metagame in a more general sense compared to the old analysis format (for example, removing the “usage tips” section for a bh prank mon might leave a new player confused on how to use it to combat setup). i think the best way to get around this is to work on more general metagame guides or articles.
  • checks/counters and other options are kind of annoying if we are moving to a set-based thing, maybe checks/counters should be moved to set as well?
  • slight set variations are really difficult here. to use an earlier example, should i have to slash boots or spikes on fc lunala despite being unqualified to talk about them? should each variation require its own team and replay?
  • there’s a little issue with team and game privacy, hopefully there aren’t many potential contributors who are dissuaded by having to reveal their team.

om analyses were cool in gen 7, and i think we have a big opportunity to make them even cooler now despite the poor hand gen 8 has dealt us. i would appreciate any help in improving this new format and working through the concerns. thanks for reading!!!
Thank you for the thought-out, constructive post about the project! I and the rest of the mods / CnC leaders haven’t had a second to discuss this together, but I’ll give my thoughts.

I'm mostly confused about "set based" analyses vs what we're already doing... what's the difference? Our format is already centered around writing about specific sets, with the Checks and Counters section being the only part that combines all the sets together for connivence; even there, caveats are included if the check only works for one set and not the other. As for, "the sets that ‘feel’ viable but everyone hates and no one actually uses (specs adapt lunala might be one example) don’t have to be written about," this too is 100% feasible in the current format. If say specs adapt lunala isn't ran enough and no one uses it, just mention it in OO. It doesn't need it's own set to write about. Just make an OO mention, and that's fairly effortless and covers your bases there. The same goes for "providing concrete examples" if you consider all the genuine, well-experienced teammate tips on how to pair mons and why. One could easily explain why a specific Pokemon makes a great partner for the set, which could very well allude to how the core worked on an already well established team. This is all to say that we're already been writing in many of the ways that the suggested format is supposed to do, so I'm a little lost at why this new format improves our section–maybe its a BH thing lol my b if that's the case.

Another concern unmentioned is that the suggested format would be specific and exact, whereas the current format is open ended. The changed format would give a team and justify the teambuilding process, which is divorced from how current analyses use "like" and "such as" to work as suggestions and tips. One directs, the other inspires. The suggested format would change the direction of analyses and potentially remove the independence from the reader; we want the audience to read the analysis, understand the set's role in the metagame, and play / teambuild better with this knowledge. If we limit our examples and tips to a single team and replay, then I'd be worried we'd narrowed our scope too much for metagames with a ton of depth to them. To suggest different examples and roles that are the most important to the set's viability is what analyses should concern themselves with.

Lastly, would the suggested format not already work in another format on the site, like the RMT forum? In an RMT, the user needs to / is encouraged to have the team, replays, and explain why each mon + set is on the team. This sounds like a perfect place to write about Pokemon and teams in the way that's suggested here. Sure, there's not a QC section for RMTs and they aren't on the site dex, but I'm just trying to say that there's already a time and place for writing about specific sets, teams, and replays. Here, in analyses, we write more openly.

That's just my opinion on the matter for now, and I hope I cleared up some of the misconceptions on what we can and cannot already write about in the existing format.
 

5Dots

Chairs
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Was wondering if the spreadsheet for ZU reservations could also be updated. I know I’ve said this on discord, but:
:Centiskorch:, :silvally: (ground/ghost), :sandslash:, :Garbodor:, :Froslass: have left the tier for quite a while now.
:Stonjourner:, :vanilluxe:, :mawile:, and :whiscash: have been unranked too.
:Silvally: (electric/fighting/flying/grass), :shiinotic:, :lycanroc-midnight:, :Lapras:, :gourgeist: (XL), :raichu:, :drifblim:, :bellossom:, :arctovish:, and :sandslash-alola: have all been newly added to the VR.
 

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
I noticed there are several CMS edits submitted several months ago that have not been uploaded for ZU, and as these seem to be mostly relatively simple changes, would it be possible for someone to check them and decide if they can be uploaded? This would be useful as they clog up the CMS queue for moderators in other tiers and would help keep the analyses up to date.
 
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