Metagame NP: ZU Stage 5: Stan - Many bans #12

[Tuthur]

​

Rotom-Fan was previously banned from SV ZU and while the metagame has radically changed since then, due to the introduction of dozens of new Pokemon, it still remained a top-threat with the same sets as before. Rotom-S mainly benefits from the absence of reliable Volt Switch immunities that are tanky enough to take on its powerful STAB Air Slash, allowing it to theorically generate infinite momentum. Rotom is also powerful enough to break through bulkier foes thanks to Nasty Plot and can prove to be hard to revenge kill due to its above average Speed tier and great defensive typing, which can even flip its weaknesses with tera Steel.

Defensively, Rotom-S is usually being checked by Ground-types that can stop its progress with Volt-Switch, which includes Camerupt, Gabite, and Dugtrio. Dugtrio outspeeds and can OHKO with Stone Edge after some chip damage, while Gabite and Camerupt can avoid the 3HKO from Air Slash and weaken Rotom-Fan to let a teammate revenge kill it. Even if they can't stop Volt Switch, Electric-types such as Dedenne and Ampharos, as well as special walls like Clefairy, Tinkatuff, and Sliggoo-Hisui can safely check Rotom-Fan and threaten it with powerful STAB moves or cripple it with status moves. Moreover, there are multiple naturally faster threats, including Squawkabilly, Frogadier, and Sawsbuck, as well as common Choice Scarf users like Stonjourner, Golduck, and Indeedee-F that can outspeed and revenge kill it after preliminary damage.

However, positionning against Rotom-S can be very tough. The Ground-types aren't very reliable due to their lack of recovery and can easily fall to Air Slash / Terablast after a Nasty Plot, especially factoring the high flinch chance. Outspeeding Rotom not only outspeeds a large part of the metagame, but can also prove to be hard to revenge kill for faster foes. Its great defensive stats and limited weaknesses mean very few moves can take it out from full, especially since using tera Steel with its Levitate ability also grants it a very powerful defensive typing that resists its initial typing weaknesses, and gives it resist to common faster foes like Dugtrio, Squawkabilly, and Choice Scarf Indeedee. It can also run tera Ground Terablast to break past defensive answers like Sliggoo-Hisui and Electric-types, while retaining great defensive value.

• Reading this is mandatory for participating in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 77 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 77 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 81. Also, needing more than 50 games to reach 77 GXE will suffice.

Minimum Games Needed

GXE	minimum games
77	50
77.2	49
77.4	48
77.6	47
77.8	46
78	45
78.2	44
78.4	43
78.6	42
78.8	41
79	40
79.2	39
79.4	38
79.6	37
79.8	36
80	35
80.2	34
80.4	33
80.6	32
80.8	31
81	30

• You must signup with a newly registered account on Pokemon Showdown! that begins with the appropriate prefix for the suspect test. For this suspect test, the prefix will be ZUFAN. For example, I might signup with the ladder account ZUFAN Tuthur.
• Laddering with an account that impersonates, mocks, or insults another Smogon user or breaks Pokemon Showdown! rules may be disqualified from voting and infracted. Moderator discretion will be applied here. If there is any doubt or hesitance when making the alt, just pick another name. There are infinite possibilities and we have had trouble for this repeatedly. If you wish to participate in the suspect, you should be able to exhibit decent enough judgement here. We will not be lenient.
• The aspect being tested, Rotom-Fan, will be allowed on the ladder.
• Any form of voting manipulation will result in swift and severe punishment. You are more than welcome to state your argument to as many people as you so please, but do not use any kind of underhanded tactics to get a result you desire. Bribery, blackmail, or any other type of tactic used to sway votes will be handled and sanctioned.
• Do not attempt to cheat the ladder. We will know if you did not actually achieve voting requisites, so don't do it. Harsh sanctions will be applied.
• The suspect test will go on for about 11 days, lasting until Thursday 30th at 11:00 PM GMT-5 and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.

This thread will be open to allow all users to share their thoughts on this suspect test and discuss with one another their thoughts. Should you have any questions about the suspect test, feel free to message me or anyone else on the ZU council. Keep in mind that our suspect tests are decided by the community; anyone who achieves voting requisites is allowed to vote. The outcome is up to you. Happy posting and laddering!

Avoid posting one-liners or posts that do not contribute to any discussion. They will be deleted.

 

[RextheNoname]

The only reason Rotom-Fan wasn't voted ban in the intial meta slate was due to its low power level when contrasted to the absolute menace that was Raichu, and while I don't believe that conservative tiering action is necessarily bad, I do believe that it would've been welcome considering the circumstance. R3eguardless, rotom fan is now in the tier, placing a large amount of stress on the tier, and being undoubted problematic.

The main problem with fan is that the defensive counters which Fan has are either difficult to keep alive, or incapable of consistently walling it. As for the offensive side, Fan reaching base 86 speed permits it to offensively deal with a large majority of the tier. Its primary counters being Tink and Hliggoo get crippled by hazards and struggle to withstand the pressure that rotom fan teams are on. Fan's solid bulk also permits it to stomach offensive hits from revenge killers. It's honestly just cut and dry broken with its counters being easily pressured and having enough bulk to stomach a lot of hits.

As for terastalization, I'm not mentioning it because it does the exact same thing it does on basically every borderline broken mon. Pushes it to beat all of its counters and checks and permits it to win the game easily, but if we hyperfocus in on its prominence after tera-ing we'll end up going on for hours with bans. The only notable thing here is the prominence of levitate playing a role in tera-steels, but at the end of the day it's tera, and whether or not an ability boosts it, it's still going to have the same affect.

Apologies for not going excessively in depth on every MU here, It'd be redundant for a community who's general consensus already centers around banning Rotom-Fan. I don't necessarily think that doing this as a suspect is inherently poor judgement, as there is some leniency on fan being broken. At the end of the day, y'all just need a post to confirm your thoughts on fan, so here it is.

Suggesting that suspecters vote ban because i dont have the time to actually do the suspect test and im bad at this game

 

[Welcome to mars]

While i sure as hell don’t have 77 gxe in freaking zu, i still personally believe those with suspect reqs should be voting ban, not only is it unpredictable, but it has a good speed tier for zu standards and a high chance of claiming a KO or spreading thunder wave while you try to figure out if its scarf or nasty plot, only for it to be a whole other set altogether, i believe like “rexthenoname” that it only avoided a quick ban because of the immense power creep and instability of the tier shifts that sent glaceon to mid rank and stonjourner all the way to low rank

it doesn’t help it has ways around some of our special walls, crocalor is weak to rock and gets ruined by trick scarf sets, tinkaton while a ok answer for some sets can’t paralyze it and has no healing so it will be put in a complicated spot since rotom fan isn’t frail at all and can set up nasty plot, hisuian sliggo is a solid counter, but its dropped in usage and can’t deal with rotoms teammates plus it better be special since the curse sets gets flat out walled too especially if its the rare but not unusable DEFENSIVE ROTOM, noctowl is weak to electric and it tends to run tera types that don’t resist electric, other specially defensive mons can take it on, will have issues doing it after two nasty plots and scarf trick can mess em up

did i mention it can tera ice with tera blast and basically get STAB BOLT BEAM? , not on a regieleki extent, but its a threat regardless of wether you want it banned or not, its a very versatile and dangerous pokemon and not to be scoffed at, especially since the last thing you want to do against such a threat is be wasting precious turns to guess what its running

edit: the bolt beam part isn’t a factor in its ban, i was just experimenting, use tera steel on most levitaters

 

[TomatoZause]

THOUGHTS​

As someone who has gotten reqs, I figured I'd share my thoughts on Rotom-Fan. I believe that it is unhealthy for the metagame because of how easily it can generate momentum due to how poor the grounds are, and then later on being extremely threatening as a sweeper. There are three main teras that Rotom-Fan often runs. The most common is Tera Steel, which prevents Indeedee-F from revenge killing easily, and removes the Fantom's only weaknesses, Ice and Rock. This helps the matchup against Glaceon and the rare Eiscue, as well as Dugtrio, Gabite, and Stonjourner (watch out for Heat Crash). Tera Ground is also common, making the matchup versus the aforementioned Rock and Ground types even better (barring Gabite), as well as Camerupt and Pupitar. However, it maintains the weakness to Ice, and gains weaknesses to Grass and Water. This hurts its matchup significantly into the plethora of Grass and Waters, most notably Gogoat (3HKO'd by Air Slash), and Scarf Golduck. Its least common Tera is Tera Electric, which makes it resistant to opposing Fantom, provides it no weaknesses, and boosts it strong, 107 base Sp. Atk STAB. I'll share some forms of counterplay that have seen use so far, and how well they perform into Fantom.

ANSWERS

Set

Dugtrio @ Life Orb / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Sand Force
Tera Type: Dark / Fire / Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Tera Blast
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stone Edge

Dugtrio is one the best answers to Rotom-Fan, as it outspeeds and has a 56.3% chance to OHKO with Life Orb Stone Edge. Additionally, Dugtrio only takes 80 from Air Slash, so it can somewhat safely switch into non Choice Scarf Fantom. However, Dugtrio always loses to Fantom if it Teras, unless Dugtrio is Tera Fire/Ice and Fantom is Steel/Ground. It also loses if Fantom Nasty Plots on the switch, and then Teras, unless the Dugtrio user predicts, and is Tera Fire (which is hard considering all the possible Teras). Lastly, it struggles against bulky NP variants.

Set

Stonjourner @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Power Spot
Tera Type: Ground / Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Heat Crash / Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock / Heavy Slam

Scarf Stonjourner is the only set that reliably answers Rotom-Fan, however it suffers from many of the same issues as Dugtrio. It loses to Scarf, and loses after Tera as well. It's main advantage over Dugtrio is that it has Heat Crash, allowing it to properly hit Fantom after it Tera Steels, without its own Tera. However, it loses to Tera Ground and Electric without prior chip. Unlike Dugtrio, it is OHKO'd by Thunderbolt, and cannot effectively block Volt Switch.

Sets

Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Steel / Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock / Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake

Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Iron Head / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Fire Blast

Gabite is one of the most commonly seen answers to Fantom. Unlike the former two, it doesn't despise scarf and it can hit Tera Steel with Fire Fang / Fire Blast post tera. The Swords Dance set's lackluster bulk actually makes it fairly unreliable against Fantom, as it gets outsped and almost 2HKO'd by Air Slash. However, the bulky set easily eats hits, even avoiding the 2HKO at +2. However, it struggles to threaten Rotom-Fan unless it carries Stone Edge. It can phaze it with Dragon Tail, however this is only a temporary solution. Due to a lack of recovery, Gabite can find itself getting chipped down throughout a game, and if the Fantom player positions themselves well, Gabite can be ran right over.

Sets

Camerupt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Solid Rock
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock

Camerupt @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Tera Type: Grass
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Yawn

While Camerupt seems like an excellent answer on paper, due to its typing hitting Rotom-Fan post-Tera, while being immune to its Electric STAB, it is not a great answer. Even the bulkiest sets drop to +2 Tera Ground Blast after Stealth Rock, and are 2HKO'd by +2 Air Slash. The less bulky sets take over 75 percent from +2 Air Slash. Factoring in flinch chance, Camerupt can not reliably handle Rotom-Fan at all.

Sets

Ampharos @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam / Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Ampharos @ Assault Vest
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Fairy / Fighting / Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt / Dragon Tail

Ampharos @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Water / Fairy / Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Tera Blast / Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Power Gem / Tera Blast

Ampharos @ Choice Specs
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Water / Fairy / Ice
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Tera Blast
- Dazzling Gleam

Ampharos is one of the more solid answers to Rotom-Fan. It outdamages it fairly easily and resists both of its STABs. However, all of its sets die to Tera Ground after Rocks, barring Sp. Def Boots Ampharos (only because it is immune to hazards). Ampharos doesn't despise being tricked, but it doesn't particularly like it either. Additionally, Tera Electric Rotom can freely Nasty Plot and Thunderbolt right through defensive Ampharos if it doesn't carry Dragon Tail. Tera Electric also has a 90% chance to 2HKO the more offensive sets after a boost. However, this does not change the fact that Ampharos is arguably the best answer to the most common Fantom set.

Sets

Pupitar @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Smack Down
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

Pupitar @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 168 HP / 132 Atk / 112 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Smack Down
- Rest

Pupitar is another solid form of Fantom counterplay, answering Rotom-Fan before Tera, and even after Tera depending on some various factors. Pupitar is immune to Volt Switch and resists Air Slash, while threatening Fantom back with Stone Edge. However, it gets dicey after Tera, as Tera Steel and Ground resist Stone Edge. It does over 75% to Specially Defensive Pupitar with Tera Blast and OHKOs Dragon Dance Pupitar. Fortunately, Tera Steel loses to Smack Down + Earthquake and Tera Electric always loses to Pupitar. It also does not enjoy being tricked a scarf. Despite losing to Tera Ground and Steel without Smack Down, Pupitar is still one of the most solid answers to Fantom.

Set

Sliggoo-Hisui @ Eviolite
Ability: Shell Armor / Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Fairy / Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I didn't include Curse because I don't believe it is a consistent answer.

Sliggoo-Hisui is arguably the most reliable answers to Rotom-Fan, due to its fantastic special bulk and resistances. Like all of the other "answers" mentioned, Sliggoo-Hisui loses to one of Fantom's Tera types, Tera Ground. Sliggoo-Hisui can be made dead weight when tricked a Scarf as well. The matchup against Tera Steel can be made easier by running some Special Attack investment if wanted, but Sliggoo still wins regardless.

Set

Pincurchin @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Lightning Rod
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Spikes
- Recover
- Poison Jab / Scald
- Discharge

Pincurchin is unique to most of the other answers mentioned as it punishes Rotom-Fan entering the field by freely setting spikes. Because it resists both of Fantom's STABs, and is immune to Volt, Rotom-Fan can only generate momentum from Double Switching. However, it too hates Tera Ground and being Tricked a Scarf. It can also be boosted through with some flinch hax due to how incredibly passive it is.

TEAM

For those who are looking for a team, here is the team I used.

(click on mons for paste)​

Tera Electric Flareon answers Fantom (despite needing Tera to do so and STILL getting nailed by Tera Ground) and is arguably the least passive wall in the entire meta due to its fantastic attack and STAB 120 base power Flare Blitz. Wish supports many teammates , such as Gabite and Swalot. AcidPress Swalot with Rest and Toxic is a hard stop to many physical attackers and can sweep late game. Additionally, it absorbs Toxic Spikes. Gogoat's EVs are made to survive Earthquake into Tera Blast Fire or Ice from Dugtrio. It also withstands three air slashes from Rotom-Fan. It's Sp. Def is very high, capable of answering strong special attackers such as Indeedee with ease. Gabite sets Stealth Rock, provides a volt-immunity and can be threatening with SD + Scale Shot. Indeedee is the best revenge killer and can stop setup sweeps from Phione, Wyrdeer and Chimecho in their tracks. I remember seeing Custap Gumshoos used in a tour game between TimBasedGod and plznostep. I decided to use it here because it work pretty nicely into most leads and has an excellent element of surprise factor.

​

 

[Ruby4]

Since I got reqs, I wanted to share my thoughts on . In my opinion, this thing needs to go. I won't go into too much detail, as others have already done. It has too many options, and the tier can't deal with them without stacking on answers. It can also run many different Teras (Steel, Ground, Electric, etc.), which can circumvent its checks. Tera Steel ignores almost all (except the rare Scarf Tera Fighting). Ground lets it hit electric and steel types such as , , , , etc. It also gives a rock resistance, so revenge killing it with or isn't always guaranteed. Tera Electric just gives more power to thunderbolt, not much else to say. All of these sets are very threatening, and they can all find opportunities to get on the field quite often. immunity to ground, and its resistances to flying, fighting, grass and steel let it switch in vs resisted hits quite often.

The main thing that I haven't seen a lot of people talk about is how it is to force progress vs all mons. Yeah, it can cripple its checks because they can't recover (except rest talk on , or ). But, it also forces switches, which means that mons relying on (think ) will have to take entry hazards every time + one or two attacks. This means that in the long term, will be able to break through most of its checks purely by clicking not very effective moves.

However, this isn't the most important aspect of this mon in my opinion. The fact that it can click volt-switch on the majority of its checks is amazing, and forces lots of progress to be made. The only way of dealing with this would be to bring a ground type, but the tier lacks any great ground type. The best one that can block volt-switch throughout the game is , but it's either kinda passive, or doesn't tank very well attacks due to being offensive. So, even if you bring , which takes 10% on every volt switch, you still allow powerful mons to hit the field ( for example). In that case, you can bring both a ground type and an electric or steel mon. However, you still have to win a 50/50 every time finds an opportunity to get on the field, which will happen often during a game.

TL;DR : ROTOM-FAN BUSTED AS FUCK

Here's the team I used to get reqs

​

Can't say how I build it because I stole it, big thanks BloodAce lol. The defensive core isn't very sturdy, so don't expect the games to last very long. The only annoying mons for the team are water types (, were the biggest problems) and . Also, you can just clicks buttons, read one or two turns correctly and sweep with . Almost half the games were sweeps, and the rest was / spamming the same move for 8 turns.

 

[5Dots]

Also going to jump in with my thoughts on Rotom-Fan. TomatoZause has provided a great response to why its checks are shaky, and Ruby4 has done a great job covering its pivoting capabilities. I too agree, that, Without a doubt, it is unhealthy and does not justify the offensive and defensive benefits it brings to a team. Yes, Ground-types are important for a team, but Ground-types that would either get flinched to KO range or would outright lose? That's not healthy. A lot of the reasoning as to why I'd be voting BAN comes from these factors:

1. SPEED:

Rotom-Fan sits at a comfortable 87 Speed. A lot of offensive Pokemon sit below it, with notable examples including Indeedee-F, Golduck, and Gabite. This requires either a naturally fast Pokemon to deal with it, like Frogadier or Dugtrio, or a Choice Scarf user like the aforementioned Golduck and Indeedee. The issues are that a majority of the time, Rotom-Fan is backed up with reliable defensive backbones like Tinkatuff and Indeedee to make revenge killing a more difficult task. Rotom-Fan will also have other offensive teammates like Leafeon, Sawsbuck, and offensive Gabite to wait and sweep late-game, and those threats are already difficult on their own to deal with.

2. UNRELIABLE DEFENSIVE ANSWERS:
While Rotom-Fan's high Speed is already difficult enough, it can get away many times with Air Slash's flinch rate to brute force its way past traditional answers like Camerupt and Gabite. The PU set from Gabite usually is enough to phase +2 Rotom-Fan once, but again, Air Slash and Dragon Tail's imperfect accuracy often makes the matchup shaky. Camerupt isn't much better in this regard. Yes, it can force Rotom-Fan out with Yawn and can usually beat it 1v1, but when switching into the fan, it's still not good, as +2 Air Slash can now 2HKO it and Yawn doesn't force Fantom out compared to Gabite's Dragon Tail. At best, it forces a switch or gets a Lava Plume burn on. At worst, it gets flinched and does nothing while Rotom-Fan is at +2 and is ready to ravage the team. Dugtrio is fine at first glance, but it's very frail and is even worse at switching in than Gabite and Camerupt, since it takes ~80% of damage from Air Slash switching in. It has to hope that Rotom-Fan doesn't Terastalize and gets a Rock Slide flinch or two in order to beat it, and this isn't a safe strategy. Pupitar is by far the best check to it: immune to Electric STAB and resists Air Slash, and can use Smack Down to win? Also has recovery with Rest + Shed Skin for longevity? Seems great, but Pupitar is not an easy slot to fit on teams and is passive when using a defensive set, and loses a lot of reliability when using an offensive set, as a single flinch + Tera Steel/Ground can completely turn the matchup on its head. Outside of the fan and ampharos matchups, what Pupitar checks isn't exactly common.

Speaking of Tera, Rotom-Fan makes extremely good use of this and can make uneasy matchups convincing: Tera Electric turns the mirror into an easy win through strengthening Thunderbolt while resisting BOTH of its STABs, Tera Ground stops Ampharos and itself from pivoting, flips the matchups on Camerupt, Dugtrio, and Pupitar, while Tera Steel is just great for a catch-all defensive Tera. Rotom-Fan, with Tera and its great Speed tier, has next to no bad matchups.

Offensive checks, while definitely good in their own right, have several issues. While all of them require at least some chip for it to faint, Sawsbuck would be a fantastic choice against all matchups except Tera Steel, since High Horsepower and Horn Leech basically do nothing against it. Frogadier needs to hope Rotom doesn't Tera for Ice Beam to successfully revenge it, and Raboot and Squawkability have to hope for Rotom not to be Scarf to be effective.
3. SET VARIETY:
The most common set is Nasty Plot by far; the answers to it aren't exactly consistent with Terastalization and Rotom's great Speed. Choice Scarf is the other set that has been quite potent, as standard choices like SD Sawsbuck, Scarf Golduck and Scarf Indeedee would be shocked to have a Rotom-Fan that can pivot around them freely before finishing them off with Thunderbolt/Air Slash. I have seen quite a few of these variants during some of my runs and they are even more nightmarish to deal with if one doesn't have an Electric immunity/Ground-type. Not to mention Trick can also be quite annoying against walls like Tink and Terastalized sweepers like Phione and opposing Rotom-Fan.

Overall, I consider Rotom-Fan to be way too much and would BAN it without hesitation. On a side note, here's a team I've used during my 29-1 run:

Description

Leafeon and Rotom-Fan do a great job complementing their offensive capabilities. Leafeon can muscle through Ground-types like Gabite and Pupitar, whereas Rotom-Fan can force out defensive Bug-types like Illumise and Vespiquen (yes, both are good). While both are potent win conditions, Leafeon provides better Speed control, Knock Off, and physical bulk, while Rotom-Fan provides some defensive quirks like Levitate and has better offensive STABs. Gabite is a mixed defensive RestTalk user and provides an Electric immunity and valuable phasing, especially when combined with Knock Off. Speaking of Knock Off support, Tinkatuff once more runs its standard set of four utility moves (Rocks, Knock, TWave, Encore) but I gave it Tera Electric to fare better against the Rotom-S matchup. Indeedee was Specs - a lot of people underestimate its wallbreaking capabilities under Psychic Terrain, and still has Healing Wish + Trick to be disruptive against defensive cores. Frogadier rounds team through Choice Scarf and Spikes, providing Speed control and Spikes at once. Switcheroo or Surf could both be used over Spikes for more team disruption or for a more reliable STAB move.

 

[OranBerryBlissey10]

Rotom-Fan @ Heavy-Duty Boots / @ Choice Specs/Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel / Ground / Ice / Water / Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot / Trick
- Volt Switch / Tera Blast
- Thunderbolt / Trick
- Air Slash

For something to be an effective Rotom-Fan answer it needs to:
1. be able to (repeatedly) withstand (boosted) stabs
2. voltblock, or at least be paired with something that seriously dissuades it (i.e. Ampharos + Gabite)
3. be able to ko it back

Almost no "check" to fantom passes all 3 of these checks. Ampharos and similar spdef tanks like Dunsparce, Sliggoo or Tinkatuff don't voltblock and in some cases don't even do enough damage back fast enough. Offensive Ground-types like Krokorok and Dugtrio are great at the latter two points, but can be called out easily by a rogue Air Slash (and dislike scarf variants even more). While Gabite and Camerupt seem better at first, both easily fall to most Nasty Plot into Air Slash sequences. I've played too many games where the fantom user sets up on the switchout before proceeding to flinch aforementioned "checks" leaving the opponent with no options to speak of (Camerupt Yawn into Lava Plume burn is also hilarious). The only winning line for Gabite is Scale Shot, outspeeding fantom and getting the play right next turn (Outrage into Dachsbun is gg). Terastallization doesn't even help either as it sits at a comfortable speed tier, while fantom DOES make excellent use of it even if things go south. I've never found the ancient "haha flying type with levitate useless ability" meme very funny and I'm glad tera buries it. Rotom-Fan is bar none of the mons that loves the gen 9 environment the most, making ample use of multiple tera types that work great independently. Steel is the obvious catch-all defensive tera having obvious synergy with levitate and negating so much potential counterplay (specifcally speed control like scarf Stonjourner or Indeedee), Ground gives a Rock resistance too but can also run Tera Blast to completely turn the tables on opposing electrics. Even just gaining immunity to one hit from opposing fantom is very valuable and can lead to an early advantage. Electric can give it extra power on an offensively threatening stab while Ice gives you boltbeam coverage and also wipes Gabite off the face of the earth. I haven't seen Water yet but it similarly eviscerates Camerupt and Poopy tar with general solid offensive and defensive utility. Circling back to the original point, the only viable mons that pass all 3 checks, ignoring tera, are Poopy tar and Pincurchin, neither of which are good and therefore cannot be expected to be on the majority of teams. It would be one thing if they were wholly reliable, but this is gen 9 so screw all that. Apart from any scarf trickery being a huge detriment, the right tera type flips the script as mentioned before. Pinchurchin loses to Ground (and isn't all that great vs Electric either) while Poopy tar eats sidewalk against Ground, Water and Ice (and has to run bloody Smack Down to not lose vs Steel).

I don't even think Rotom-Fan is the most dangerous setup sweeper in the tier rn, but its arsenal is perfect for breaking and gaining momentum against pretty much any sort of team. The combination of choiced sets, nasty plot and terastallization makes it too much to handle. I will be voting ban (currently being 14.3% of the entire voting power of this suspect) and save us from this menace.

It's smiling so deviously cause it knows we're gonna unban it for dlc 2 anyway.

 

[Welcome to mars]

Tauros has fallen, leavanny has fallen, KLAWF has fallen (but not freaking avalugg) and the zeroused tier has lost its mind, for the 2nd month in a row, oh rotom frost comes to avenge his brother, guess we doing this again huh?

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Specs /choice scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Discharge
now the tier shifts haven’t been added to showdown yet, but when they are, we gotta get rotom frost out because its like rotom fan with natural stab bolt beam, so it doesn’t need to give up tera steel levitate or the tera slot for that, imagine everything that broke rotom fan (except flinching through its checks with sheer luck) with a powerful stab like ICE, now it does have a worst defensive typing than rotom fan and blizzard has 8 pp with bad accuracy, so if you don’t want it banned you could say that, but if you actually play zu, you know this is TERRIBLE

note to the mods: if we can’t talk about the tier shifts until they’re added, let me know and i’ll delete this post

 

[wooper]

another massive wave of drops to zu!

Arbok moved from PU to ZU
Electrode moved from PU to ZU
Hattrem moved from PU to ZU
Klawf moved from PU to ZU
Leavanny moved from PU to ZU
Ludicolo moved from PU to ZU
Mabosstiff moved from PU to ZU
Masquerain moved from PU to ZU
Perrserker moved from PU to ZU
Rotom-Frost moved from PU to ZU
Sneasel moved from PU to ZU
Tauros moved from PU to ZU
Thwackey moved from PU to ZU
Trevenant moved from PU to ZU
Ursaring moved from PU to ZU
Victreebel moved from PU to ZU
Volbeat moved from PU to ZU

 

[fish anemometer]

Played a bunch of friendlies and ladder games to test the waters on these mons and I think I have some idea how I'll be voting in the upcoming slate now. I can still be bribed or persuaded to change my opinions though. Some might be knee jerk.

He's balanced... Mostly ran into dice dd, scale shot, tera dragons that just don't have the stats to really get rolling. I've seen some other meme sets with glare but I'd really rather just swalot at that point.
We have "new ground types" but that's gabite, cam, dugtrio which doesnt block its volts and... super niche scarf krok which gets outsped by timid? We also have some more mons with high spdef that trode won't outright beat like goat and amphy. SV ZU still just doesn't seem ready for a fast electric to be running the meta. It has power issues but you can run modest and outspeed dugtrio, just missing out on +1 base 80s. Leaning broken for now.
Tinkatuff is still quite good-assuming they'll all run mold breaker now. Outside of tinka mus it's nice deterrence zu can handle with all its knocks.
Mr. K is amazing. Both as a lead/set up on HO and physically defensive set with rocky helmet blanket checks a ton. Think he's good for the tier atm.
Ups webs and throws off another hit pretty damn reliably. Not sure the playstyle as a whole is problematic, but this can be hella threatening and has a lot more presence than our previous webbers.
Self setting rain dance is ok. I didn't find it to be crazy. Yet...
Mabosstiff has got to go. This tier has almost no switch ins to dark stab at all let alone stakeout boosted. Dachs and helmet klawf can kinda do it if no defense drop and no hazards coming in. Have to offensively check this or tera.
Expected this to be more broken but maybe I just havent figured out the right coverage and tera on a qd set yet. Hasn't felt overbearing yet while playing and playing against, but I will probably vote ban to play it safe. QD+tera is never fun.
This guy also has no switch ins at all... I want to keep him just cause of the typing and moves. But gosh he feels broken at times, other times he clutches vs the other brokens too. I dunno what to vote here yet. Wouldn't be surprised if i'm the only one that votes ban here.
LOWKEY this checks all the brokens LMAO. It's broken but it's also trash when it misses blizzard... I think we can;t afford to take more risks with the rotoms, but fan in previous metas felt more broken than this guy now lol.
Very slightly leaning dnb here as you need to position this frail guy in and it doesn't hit hard enough off rip while holding boots. Certainly a great mon and dark stab is broken rn. Can easily flinch with crash to get passed something too. Won't be surprised if it goes.
Super busted. Certainly not invincible, but too fast and strong for zu atm. Been running sub+lash out in the last 2 slots but anyway ez ban.
Thwackey isn't broken but Wyrdeer terrain is insane.
Can be very annoying with sub harvest, or very cool with CB/OTR, dope mon I like it so far. Knock abundance limits all of its sets.
Thought it might be a fraud, 1 day in it still sorta is. But I feel like it is 1 optimized set away from demolishing zu. Probably voting ban unless it turns out it really is a fraud.
Self setting sun sets and strength sap stuff is cool and not broken.
Volbeat moved from PU to ZU !

 

[sinnabyss]

Imma give my own two cents on the new DLC mons too

Oh, how ive been waiting. Unfortunately, PU hogged this guy for a month, and it's looking a bit lackluster in comparision to the other physical threats we got this shift. (Why tf doesnt it get SD gamefreak) It has potential with coil + scale shot sets with loaded dice for sure.

Oh, how i havent missed you. Elec is definitely weaker than it was pre-dlc but still looks menacing, what with its stupid high speed and bolt+beam combo given to it by tera. Doesnt seem banworthy yet but i havent seen too much of it to be fair.

:hatterem: Ehhhhh, its a bit late for hatt here, as with the abundance of knock off and almost every hazard setter beating it. It can atleast deny hazards with good prediction, but really seems a bit iffy to me. Forces tink to run mold breaker now ig.

YES YES YES. While klawf has worse stats on paper than Stonjourner, its much wider movepool and regenerator makes it far better, plus it doesnt die to any special attack. Great glue mon and overall nice addition to the tier.

Good webs setter ig. Losing knock off and magic coat hurts but it gets the job done.

Poor ludi, dropping after rain ban. he definitely secures himself a niche as a lategam self setter.

:mabostiff: This guy was stupid in PU and is stupider here. 0 crunch resists that can actually switch in, especially with Stakeout. Unhealthy for the tier and should be banned.

Not really as scary as i expected, but granted low ladder is wayyy too obsessed with webs masq, and thats about 90% of people in my timezone. Tera gives it a ton of danger level tho, so masq should be atleas on the watchlist.

Very nice tank mon, and has all the moves it wants. I think its a bit too slow to be broken since it isnt too bulky. very nice addition to the tier.

Guess whos back, back again. Fortunately frostom has way more problems than Fantom, but STAB Ice+Elec is dangerous, and tera helps it with its lackluster defensive typing.

Not too broken as its forced to hold boots if it wants any semblance of longevity, and that makes it quite weak without setup. Band is scary but is easily worn down and hard to bring in. May be broken in the future, but also may not.

Broken, enough said.

:thwacky: Monke is back! And with glide now! It by itself is not too broken but enables Wyrdeer to be stupid. Im getting SS flashbacks here.

Haven't seen enough of it to be sure, but trev seems solid enough. Pairs well with Monke to be able to use Glide + boosted Wood Hammer.

Overshadowed by Tauros rn, but is very scary with either guts, quick feet or even bulk up sets. Very potentially broken.

Decent but suffers immensely from competition from like 7 other grass types. Strength sap and poison stab differentiates it enough to be probably viable.

Ever so slightly better than Ilumise thanks to its stronger u-turn, which is a shame, since bro is ugly.

 

[Tuthur]

The council voted on most of the new drops and we quickbanned a huge amount of them. As a result, Electrode, Mabosstiff, Masquerain, Perrserker, Rotom-Frost, Tauros, Ursaring, and Wyrdeer are now banned from SV ZU. Tagging Kris and Marty to implement. Quick note on Wyrdeer, while it was already in the tier last month, the combination of Thwackey and Wyrdeer was deemed broken by the council. We agreed one of them needed to go and we prefered getting rid off Wyrdeer than Thwackey.

	Outcome	Corthius	Danny	Drud	fish anemometer	Monai	OranBerryBlissey10	Tuthur
Electrode	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	DNB	dnb	Ban
Klawf	DNB	do not ban	Abstain	DNB	DNB	DNB	dnb	Do not ban
Mabosstiff	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	Ban	Ban	Ban
Masquerain	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	Ban	Ban	Ban
Perrserker	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	Ban	dnb	Ban
Rotom-Frost	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	Ban	Ban	Ban
Sneasel	DNB	do not ban	Abstain	Ban	DNB	DNB	dnb	Do not ban
Tauros	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	Ban	Ban	Ban
Trevenant	DNB	do not ban	Abstain	DNB	DNB	DNB	dnb	Do not ban
Ursaring	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	Ban	dnb	Ban
Victreebel	DNB	do not ban	Abstain	Ban	DNB	Ban	dnb	Ban
Wyrdeer	Ban	ban	Abstain	Ban	BAN	Ban	dnb	Ban

 

[wooper]

just pooping popping by to drop some thoughts on current meta! just dropped a personal viability list if you wanna take a look too. firstable, i applaud council for being very ban-happy with the most recent drops, i didnt get a chance to play while the mons were still legal, but from what i heard and what i observed, they had no place in the current iteration of the tier and im glad to see them gone. onwards!


these three stand out to me as some of the strongest mons in the tier, and they all share the trait of first and foremost being fast offensive setup sweepers. having adequate counterplay is crucial when building. below are the sets that i like to use typically

sets

Dugtrio @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sand Force
Tera Type: Fire / Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Tera Blast
- Sucker Punch

Leafeon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Synthesis

Golduck @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Cloud Nine
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast

one of the most common scarfers in the tier, but feels very balanced and not op this time around. ive been experimenting with non-choiced sets because this mon has a lot of moves in its arsenal and i like surprising the opponent

sets

Indeedee-F @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Ground / Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick / Healing Wish
- Psychic
- Tera Blast / Hyper Voice
- Hyper Voice / Healing Wish

Indeedee-F @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Psychic
- Hyper Voice
- Tera Blast

Indeedee-F @ Twisted Spoon / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Ground / Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Tera Blast / Hyper Voice
- Dazzling Gleam / Tera Blast

Indeedee-F @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Fire / Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish
- Psychic
- Hyper Voice
- Tera Blast

tasked with checking strong attackers like the aforementioned leafeon and indeedee, and random mid-tiers like cacturne and glaceon (ladder loves glaceon) and therefore is easy to chip down and overwhelm. also suffers from being forced to hold eviolite, being further chipped by hazards that are quite hard to remove. still great at being an insane support mon with options like thunder wave, encore, knock, and foul play. pickpocket is a great ability to absorb knock and steal items like eviolite and hdb, but has to be wary of accidentally getting choice-locked, which is a funny interaction when it happens. mold breaker is also great to bypass swalot's sticky hold when you click knock, and will see some positive interactions vs hattrem, which dropped this month. i personally love running rest when paired with heal bell chimecho (more on this later), which would otherwise make it too passive. this mon is a defensive staple in the tier, and is partially the reason why a lot of offensive mons are opting to run tera electric to avoid the para from thunder wave. also appreciates other stealth rock users to free up its moveset to run more support moves. definitely run 72 speed if youre packing play rough to bop cacturne

sets

Tinkatuff @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Water / Ghost / Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Knock Off
- Play Rough / Knock Off
- Encore / Knock Off / Rest
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off / Rest

Tinkatuff @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Dragon / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 184 SpDef / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock / Knock Off
- Play Rough / Knock Off
- Encore / Knock Off / Rest
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off / Rest

this guy's way better than i expected. coil sets are super scary to face in my experience, but it has never been anything i havent been able to handle naturally. UberSkitty i think i owe you an apology for the defensive dual status set, it's actually been holding its own recently

sets

Arbok @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Dark / Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Sucker Punch

Arbok @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot

Arbok @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Impish Nature
- Glare
- Poison Fang
- Knock Off / Earthquake
- Rest

i recently was saying that this was one of the best mons in the tier, but it struggles to keep up with our more powerful breakers on both sides of the physical/special split. rocks, knock, and regen on support sets are great, and sd, trailblaze, and anger shell are neat on setup variants, but losing to majority of the mons i listed in both top- and high-rank means that youre going to playing an uphill battle. use it still, it's been successful for me so far!

sets

Klawf @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- High Horsepower

Klawf @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Anger Shell
Tera Type: Grass / Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- High Horsepower
- Trailblaze / Knock Off

sneaking this in here to say that this is one of my fave defensive/support mons to use lately. heal bell distribution is so sparce, and chime makes great use of it with lots of status running around in the tier. knock is great as always; it has instant recovery with recover; and levitate is a fantastic ability that lets you run lefties instead of boots and blank dugtrio's stab. tera steel with levitate lets you resist leafeon's and gabite's stabs and gabite's and dugtrio's stone edge too (this is why i run tera fire tera blast on the latter), as well invalidating coil scale shot arbok, and is just generally being an amazing defensive tera, bolstered further by levitate (think back to tera steel rotom-fan's domination on the tier just mere weeks ago). and this isnt to say anything about set-up sets, which capitalize on these defensive qualities, in addition to tera flipping the script on its matchups, sometimes even using electric to block thunder wave and to remove all of its weaknesses

sets

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Heal Bell
- Psychic
- Knock Off / Dazzling Gleam
- Recover

Chimecho @ Grassy Seed / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
- Recover

Chimecho @ Leftovers / Grassy Seed
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel / Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam / Draining Kiss
- Recover

pu recently freed vulpix, so drought is now legal again, albeit without heat rock thanks to pu's earlier ban on it + damp rock. i suspect to see sun archetypes popping back up, but i dont expect them to be overpowered by any means. deserved a mention though!

alright, i think thats all i want to touch on now. hope you enjoyed reading, and happy building! :B

 

[Phibble]

I find it wild that no one's talked about Volbeat yet. One of the safest leads in the metagame from my experience.

Prankster t-wave, trick, rain+sun, tailwind, light screen, encore, roost
STAB U-turn

This thing is a legitimate utility beast.