NP: UU - Silent Night

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sharpedo antilead isnt new at all. btw special is the way to go on that.

LOL. the 1 star rating befits the quality of the metagame people have created.
 

Meru

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Yeah well there's no smogon analysis for it so I figured I'd bring it up in the shit megathread!
 
Tauros needs more love. So many great games where 110 base speed is a godsend. Intimidate is great with his decent defense.
 
Ironic how the people who contribute to making the thread worse are the ones complaining about it...

Well, it looks like Heracross might be dropped down...? I kind of doubt it, though.
 
Well, i couldn't care less if this thread is shit or not.
It has my posts in it, so that's expected.


Hera isn't going to drop, and we're going to have another round of a balanced metagame! Exciting!
Unless someone finally decides to retest some pokes (aka Crobat)...
 

DetroitLolcat

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Looks like this night won't be silent for long with Heracross raping everything in sight :O
Also, Smeargle possibly?
 
Um Heysup you cannot even start to argue that Sleeping is a good position for any Pokemon on a stall-based team to be in, independent of the fact that they might carry Sleep Talk. You do realize Special Defensive Weezing can lose to LO Special Venusaur if it sleeps long enough right? And the way stall teams work is that they...need every member to be able to do shit and not be a sitting duck right lol? Sleep Talk is hardly a reliable move to say 'I can get around Sleep Powders and still come out on top in most situations'. It is not a weak and unsupported argument, its just flat out true lol. Just look at why Weezing uses RestTalk, and why the majority of Arcanine don't.
One question. If sleep is so dangerous to stall, what's stopping you from running a cleric?

PS: I don't get why people think this thread is so bad. I don't feel anything from it, curiously enough.
 

Bluewind

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Because... when you heal something with a cleric... they can just put another Poke to sleep...

PS: Hmm...
 
That's about as good an argument as "clerics are useless because all status moves have more PP than Heal Bell".

PS: Hmm ...
 

Meru

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If you're any good, it's really easy to force your opponent to not be allowed to bring their cleric out.

And regarding clerics in general, some teams just can't find a pokemon that learns Heal Bell/Aroma to fit their team. Even then, they might have trouble finding the moveslot for it.
 

Bluewind

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No because:

a) Outside of sleep, there are actually some mons who are immune to other status (no Hypno bullshit, please)
b) Paralysis, Burn and Poison can occur as side attacks of moves such as Thunderbolt, Flamethrower and Sludge Bomb. Sleep cannot.
c) "Surprise" status moves such as Toxic from Specially Defensive Arcanine work the first time pretty well as you're caught off-guard, but once you have the chance to heal and wise up, it won't trouble you that much. Can't say the same about sleep.
d) Heal Bell-ing a Sleep status is a free invitation for Venusaur to get yet another free turn, as well as choosing something more worthwhile to Sleep. Same doesn't apply to other status.
e) I don't really think more is needed...

PS: Hmm.......
 
Hey look, 900 posts! Of pure crappyness, whatever.



i
Sleep IS the best status in the game (freeze is also very good, but since there's no move that causes direct freezing...), there's no doubt of that.
I mnean, it literally disables the enemy for a couple of turns. What could be better?

Anyway, that's why i like offensive minded Heal Bell users (CM Uxie, DD Altaria, hell even CM Espeon works), so they can cure status and threaten at the same time (as well as wasting the opponent's time).

Well, i guess i was wrong like always when i said Heracross isn't going down... maybe it will. Since i have some hidden, strange and storng desire of never using suspects, this is going to be a nightmare...


Well, i can say it's surprising that the Primeape usage got so high. People are realizing that Ape is one of the best if not the best Scarfer of UU (is there any other Primeape?).
 
No because:

a) Outside of sleep, there are actually some mons who are immune to other status (no Hypno bullshit, please)
b) Paralysis, Burn and Poison can occur as side attacks of moves such as Thunderbolt, Flamethrower and Sludge Bomb. Sleep cannot.
c) "Surprise" status moves such as Toxic from Specially Defensive Arcanine work the first time pretty well as you're caught off-guard, but once you have the chance to heal and wise up, it won't trouble you that much. Can't say the same about sleep.
d) Heal Bell-ing a Sleep status is a free invitation for Venusaur to get yet another free turn, as well as choosing something more worthwhile to Sleep. Same doesn't apply to other status.
e) I don't really think more is needed...

PS: Hmm.......
Who uses Heal Bell when Venusaur is already in? Sure it can switch in again and put another Pokemon to sleep, but it would have to switch in, take damage, use Synthesis, not miss with Sleep Powder, blah blah blah. I think you're missing the point as well, because aside from d) I don't see how what you wrote is relevant to the point at hand.

PS: Hmm ..........
 

Bluewind

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Hey Venusaur switching into stall, damn how unlikely that is sorry.... Oh right, Milotic... Omastar.. Tangrowth!! Oh yeah, it also gets the Synthesis it needs by sleeping the incoming pokémon and then recovring as it either switches out or doesn't wake up. Oh silly me... and yeah, I guess all my other points were relevant to the point at hand.

PS: HMM (yes i use Caps).............
 
Aside from the fact that each time Venusaur switches in it has to survive pitfalls like Milotic Ice Beams, Tangrowth Sleep Powders, Omastar adding another layer of Spikes, already-down entry hazards etc ... where's the cleric in your post?

PS: HmM (yes I use leetspeak) ...............
 

Meru

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I'm tired of this circumstance where Milotic will always Ice Beam with Venusaur switches in.

What if Milotic switches into something it tanks and has to recover off the damage? For my team, if Milotic doesn't recover as Venusaur is switching in, then it'll be at half health and easy fodder since it's forced out and will come back in again at half health. Unless it outspeeds Venusaur, but that'll be plenty obvious when it can't even tank the damage it tried to switch into because of the lack of a Bold nature and defensive EVs.
 

FlareBlitz

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I'm tired of this circumstance where Milotic will always Ice Beam with Venusaur switches in.

What if Milotic switches into something it tanks and has to recover off the damage? For my team, if Milotic doesn't recover as Venusaur is switching in, then it'll be at half health and easy fodder since it's forced out and will come back in again at half health. Unless it outspeeds Venusaur, but that'll be plenty obvious when it can't even tank the damage it tried to switch into because of the lack of a Bold nature and defensive EVs.
People who support Venusaur for BL seem to assume that it always gets to attack/sleep with the right move on the switch. If that's the case, it makes sense to assume that for Milotic as well. Otherwise, we might as well say "what if venusaur has to synth" or "what if venusaur leaf storms a moltres". Prediction and situations need to be applied equally to both Pokemon.

Note that I don't feel Venusaur is BL at all; I've had more success with Jynx than I have with Venusaur (yes I recognize that they're different; Jynx is better ;). The speed and the easily-resisted STABs (I don't get this "great coverage" argument, poison and steel resist both and a boat load of things resist one or the other) are a major turn off, and offensively-EVd Venusaur isn't nearly as bulky as people keeping make it out to be. In my experience, the best "bulky" offensive Pokemon are those with immunities, not those with okay resistances (like Venusaur's) because UU Pokemon hit disproportionately hard compared to what the average UU Pokemon can take in. I mean, Hitmonlee 2hkos Venusaur with Close Combat ffs...you really can't get it in on anything but weak stall team members. And even then, stall mostly commonly has the Pokemon that can actually switch into Venusaur. Registeel, other defensive Venusaur, Drapion, Weezing, Clefable, Chansey, Altaria, Moltres, etc etc all do a good job.

The sleep is probably the only thing about Venusaur that is even remotely concerning, and that is a big deal, yes...and if Venusaur had, say, Rhyperior's coverage and power, it would be probably be out of here already. But that's not the case. Venusaur doesn't hit too hard (especially compared to fucking Roserade) and its STABs are mediocre, so it gets way less out of those free turns than a more powerful Pokemon would.

Also...the comparisons to Breloom are retarded. While Venusaur is not "bulky" per se, Breloom is downright FRAIL (guys it has 60/80/60 defenses, that's worse than infernape), extremely slow for the tier its in, and highly predictable. It also has several counters that can stay in and sleep for as long as they want before stalling it out of all its PP; Celebi, Zapdos, RestTalk Gyarados, etc etc etc. Nothing wants to be asleep on a Venusaur, because the only thing that isn't beaten with 3+ turns of sleep is Registeel. Venusaur also gets synth and better coverage and typing and etc etc etc. They're not comparable, just like Venusaur and Moltres aren't comparable.

Anyway...I'm really disappointed that the FWG core is still so popular. There are many, many Pokemon who easily anti-metagame it (see RT's team) and end up with an easy victory against them...so why are people sticking to the same sorts of Pokemon? I've said this before, but if you find the metagame stagnant or boring, you have no one to blame but yourself. Go make a new team with some new pokemon for fucks sake.
 
So now that Heracross is actually coming to UU, let the discussion begin!

1. What sets are going to be dominant?
2. How are people going to prepare for it bar Weezing?
3. Good partners in UU?

Just a few to get it started...

My answers...

1. Sub is going to tear up both offence and stall, fun fact: Adamant Scarf Herra always 2hkos Milotic if it tries (stupidly) to switch in with 2 x spikes
2. Just give every team member a super effective attack if possible! Heracross makes a decent Heracross counter.
3. It doesn't need any support really... but I'll be trying Houndoom+Rhyperior. Takes down Milo and has decent defensive synergy.

E: @ Flare - It's under the cutoff point of 3.4% (3.37%) and tier changes are being done sooo .... :)
 

FlareBlitz

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Heracross is "actually" coming to UU? I don't see anything conclusive in the stats thread; could someone clarify this please?

If it actually is...wow. If we decide not to quick boot I'll be the one running CB Heracross/LO Primeape. Why don't you try burning my Primeape now, fuckers, hehe, a U-Turn straight to Cross will learn ya good. Also expecting to see a massive rise in Hidden Power [Flying], especially on Weezing and Rotom...increases in Moltres and Scyther are very likely.
It'll be fun to see how the metagame adapts...maybe once Cross drops people will stop being whiny cunts and embrace the balanced metagame next time. But I doubt it.
 
Maybe people will use Gligar with Aerial Ace to try and deal with it? Hell Weezing might start running Flamethrower/Fire Blast just so that they can KO it.

EDIT: I just noticed that this thread is now 2 star lol.
 
It'll be fun to see how the metagame adapts...maybe once Cross drops people will stop being whiny cunts and embrace the balanced metagame next time. But I doubt it.
I agree about the whining. Isn't it the whole point of testing, voting, and banning suspects to ultimately bring about a balanced metagame? I mean, for the longest time the UU metagame consisted of "something dropping from OU, clearly broken pokemon being used until it was banned to BL, and repeat" I don't understand why people want that again.

Maybe people will use Gligar with Aerial Ace to try and deal with it? Hell Weezing might start running Flamethrower/Fire Blast just so that they can KO it.
Most Weezing already do run Flamethrower/ Fire Blast. At least most the ones I've seen.
 
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