np: SV UU Stage 4.0 - Magnetic (Sandy Shocks Suspect)

[Lily]

​

Hello everyone! As mentioned on a pia stream a few weeks ago, we've been analysing the elements to take action on in the tier, and right now the UU council has determined that the most appropriate element of the tier to take action on is Sandy Shocks.

When we first started tinkering with Sandy Shocks, most people gravitated immediately towards the Heavy-Duty Boots set that has come to be such a metagame staple. With a moveset of just Volt Switch, Earth Power, Thunderbolt, and a hazard of your choice or Power Gem, you could hit essentially the entire tier for big damage; Grass-types (and Kilowattrel) were the only thing resisting both STABs, and they were just Volt Switch fodder anyway save for Toedscruel, which, respectfully, sucks. This was kinda fine; specially defensive Ground-types could handle it well enough. Hippowdon and Gastrodon were bulky enough to take it on, and Quagsire, while not really -great- into it, was good enough to take two Earth Powers with some investment. Even some Assault Vest Donphan popped up, and that was a fine interim check. The worst Ground-type to have against Sandy Shocks was, ironically, an opposing Sandy Shocks, since it OHKOes itself with Earth Power. That's just a tradeoff offense has to make; all was fine and good. Occasionally you'd see other sets like Booster Energy, Choice Scarf and Choice Specs, but nothing was too crazy.

Then Tera Blast caught on. Initially, it was seen as a poor use of your Tera, since you'd have to commit so much just to get that OHKO on Gastrodon and the 2HKO on Hippo. But people quickly realised that there's a loooot of potential for silliness there; Pokemon like Salamence and Pawmot get really tough to handle if your bulky Ground-type goes down. Sandy Shocks became an effortless facilitator of this kind of offense; yeah, you'd have to commit your Tera in some matchups, but that was more than worth it for the benefits provided. There were downsides of course; being weak to Talonflame's STABs made for annoying interactions, for instance, but the thing is that even if your opponent predicted your Tera, it was a win-win for you. They'd either have to switch the Ground-type out and you'd get free Volt Switches all game off that monstrous SpA stat and great Speed, or they'd Tera the Ground-type and well, the same thing happens. Players went scrambling for Sandy Shocks checks and they came up pretty much empty-handed.

Now of course, Sandy isn't the only Electric-type that can do the unblockable-Volt Switch song and dance. Tera Blast Kilowattrel started popping up too, and it's pretty good considering it's faster than just about everything, hits fairly hard still, and can even check opposing Tera Grass Sandy Shocks. What's the difference? Well, there are some somewhat small things, like Kilowattrel not really being able to hit all-purpose special tank Tinkaton for much immediate damage while being able to nuke Grass-types instead. But the real difference is the bulk. Sandy Shocks is really bulky. Like, for an offensive Pokemon, it's actually kinda crazy how fat it is; 85/97 physical bulk is downright excellent, while 85/85 special bulk is just fine too. This makes it really easy for Sandy Shocks to not only trade with faster Pokemon like Pawmot, Noivern, and Gengar, but also to find switch-in opportunities on some passive walls that can't really hurt it much. Coming in on Tinkaton is super free, most importantly, and with its typing in mind, it can pretty easily pivot into stuff like Magnezone too.

Sandy Shocks definitely brings some positives to the tier. It's a good offensive check to Scizor and Bisharp, for instance, and it is the only fast offensive Ground-type we have access to (the next closest thing is Krookodile). It breathes some life into offense through its great Spiking ability and Volt Switch support. It's not impossible to check either; stuff like Wo-Chien, Decidueye and Assault Vest Cyclizar can stave it off for a while, although they're all very prone to getting Volt Switched on, giving free reign to monstrous wallbreakers like Tyranitar, Pawmot, Salamence, and both forms of Paldean Tauros.

So, what do you think? Is Sandy Shocks's unmatched pivoting and wallbreaking capability too much for the tier? Do you have hidden tech you use to keep it in check? Let us know!

The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 78 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 78 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 82. As always, needing more than 50 games to 78 GXE is fine.

minimum games needed

GXE	minimum games
78	50
78.2	49
78.4	48
78.6	47
78.8	46
79	45
79.2	44
79.4	43
79.6	42
79.8	41
80	40
80.2	39
80.4	38
80.6	37
80.8	36
81	35
81.2	34
81.4	33
81.6	32
81.8	31
82	30

The test will operate as always. There will be no suspect ladder. Instead, the standard UU ladder will remain open. Those who wish to participate in this suspect test will instead use a fresh, suspect-specific alt. All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! UU ladder on a fresh alt* (see below note) with the following format: "UU2ZO (Nick)." For example, I might register the alt UU2ZO Lily to ladder with. You must meet the listed format in order to qualify.

NOTE, THIS IS NEW: If you have been laddering for the UU Ladder Tournament, your Cycle 1, Cycle 2 or Cycle 3 alt can be used for reqs, assuming it meets the GXE and game requirements for the suspect test.

Participants will have until Sunday, May 21st at 7:00 PM GMT -4 to meet voting requirements and post in the Alt Identification Thread. PLEASE DO NOT POST YOUR CONFIRMED SUSPECT RESULTS HERE - there is a dedicated thread for identifying your suspect results. Happy laddering!

 

[Concept Everything]

 

[KSt3ve]

My honest reaction :

s/o Brumirage for the meme (i forgot to s/o...)

 

[Lily]

i'm glad we asked

it would be great if we could keep the replies at least somewhat on topic, thank you!

 

[Glitchwood High]

But the real difference is the bulk. Sandy Shocks is really bulky. Like, for an offensive Pokemon, it's actually kinda crazy how fat it is; 85/97 physical bulk is downright excellent, while 85/85 special bulk is just fine too.

Not a fan of the hyperbole here: 85/97 isn't "downright excellent", pretty good sure but you're massively overhyping it...especially since 85/85 is 'just fine'? 12 points is not the difference between "fine" and "excellent". This is a pretty minor point but people read these posts a lot.

Also worth pointing out that part of what makes Sandy Shocks good is that there's a lot of different Tera Types it can use: while Tera Ground Ice is the preferred one due to its boltbeam coverage, tera ground has a lot of raw breaking power and the less-common-but-still-good tera grass just annihilates the already-overworked Gastrodon. "Offensive mon has multiple tera types" isn't a concept that's unique to Sandy Shocks but it pops off so hard with just one type that having two somewhat viable options to even worry about at all makes it even more annoying to check.

Clarifications aside, while I don't think Sandy Shocks is *that* broken it is certainly difficult to handle long-term without ridiculous Pokemon like Wo-Chien (which is already struggling against tera ice and gets volt switched on a lot). Even if you can handle it with some of the sturdier special walls, it sets it's own hazards to make life even harder for you and the VoltTurn fun really starts. Offensively checking Sandy Shocks is awkward because it's bulky enough to not completely melt to neutral hits and the scarf set blazes past pretty much anything you throw at it regardless. Defensively checking it is awkward (not impossible: I'm surprised roto-heat has gotten no clout in this post) and due to it being a volt-switch spammer it can ignore a lot of that counterplay regardless.

probably not *very* broken but ehhh my gut's telling me that I'd like the metagame more with one less threat.

 

[Lily]

I figured the two paragraphs going into detail about Tera Grass would clarify that it's the preferred Tera type by far; Ice and Ground both certainly exist and are good but they're not really the problem child the way Grass is. The idea that Ground is most common is kinda silly considering how high Tera Blast's usage is:

| Tera Blast 54.527% |

We unfortunately can't see the stats for Tera Blast but considering Ice doesn't actually hit much (notably missing Gastrodon and Quagsire) -and- makes you weak to Bullet Punch and Gigaton Hammer I'm less inclined to say it's as useful, but it of course has its place and has shown up.

Not a fan of the hyperbole here: 85/97 isn't "downright excellent", pretty good sure but you're massively overhyping it...especially since 85/85 is 'just fine'? 12 points is not the difference between "fine" and "excellent". This is a pretty minor point but people read these posts a lot.

By the standards of the tier it actually is pretty excellent! Sandy Shocks is one of the only offensive Pokemon that can do things like:
- Avoiding the OHKO from Life Orb Pawmot
- Tanking even a +6 (!!) Bullet Punch from Scizor
- Eating even a Choice Band First Impression from Slither Wing - you live Choice Band Tera Bug First Impression from Lokix too!
- Living most super effective STAB Earthquakes (you tank it from Hippowdon, defensive Donphan, Quagsire and Gastrodon, etc.)
- It even lives things like +4 Life Orb Tera Ghost Shadow Sneak from Mimikyu

For an offensive Pokemon this is pretty crazy stuff. I'm not sure how it's hyperbole. Basically every other offensive Pokemon (at least those of a remotely comparable Speed tier) in the tier is frailer to a significant extent; Salamence and the Tauroses are bulkier with Intimidate factored in, but other than that it's just Iron Jugulis.

Specially it's not as bulky because the standard is higher and it can't leverage the typing as well. It loses notable benchmarks because it's OHKOd by stuff like Tera Ghost Specs Gengar, Greninja's Hydro Pump, Tera Ground / Choice Specs Earth Power from Iron Jugulis, stuff like that. I said it was "fine" because it can take some strong neutral attacks just fine; Noivern/Salamence Draco Meteors, Specs Dark Pulse from Iron Jugulis, Earth Power from Gastrodon in a pinch, and some weaker moves like Alomomola's Whirlpool and Scream Tail's Dazzling Gleam / Psychic. But in general, its physical bulk + typing for the tier's standards is great, and its special bulk is above average but not excellent.

Important to keep the metagame in mind instead of just looking at the numbers. :D

 

[bigasschungusboi]

We will be watching with great interest

 

[pokemonisfun]

Queen of Bean as usual is 11 weeks ahead of the meta...

 

[Bice]

While I do think Tera is the main engine behind Shocks being unmanageable, I've railed against it several times (including in the Scizor suspect thread) so I won't discuss it here.
With that out of the way, Shocks is undeniably an unhealthy presence in the metagame at the moment. It's stupidly easy for it to get hazards up by virtue of forcing so many switches, and most of the meta is at least dented by it, even without Tera. While I wouldn't call its bulk phenomenal, it's still just good enough for Shocks to excel at its job. Ground/Electric coverage is stupidly strong, which is amplified by Tera, especially Tera Grass (which also lets it flip its Water, Grass, and Ground weaknesses into resistances). As QoB stated above, there are very few checks to Shocks, most of which are passive and easy to set up hazards on (to say nothing of most of them being unable to fit on anything but fat balance/stall). It also forces things like Hippowdon to run mixed spreads, making them defensive masters of none and leaving them vulnerable to the likes of Pawmot.

tl;dr tera makes it barely checkable, voting ban if i get reqs

 

[udongirl]

I could vote ban if this suspect was 2 months ago, but I think sandy shocks has become healthy in the current metagame.
The biggest problem of Sandy shocks is there are too many counters if you don't terastalize. AV Donphan which became more popular in this metagame and Decidueye are hard counter for sandy shocks without tera. Wo-chien, Hippowdon and Gastrodon are also unbreakable wall for Sandy shocks.
Additionaly, we got so many tools which can revenge Sandy Shocks in these shifts. New shifts Cyclizar and Greninja made UU speed line higher and we still have great revenge killer, mainly Scizor. These revenge killers prevent Sandy Shocks sweep.
1. Huge tera reliant
2. More revenge killers in this meta
I can say Sandy Shocks is NOT BROKEN in this meta. Thank you for reading my bad English.

 

[691]

- Electric-Type
- Electric immunity
- 101 speed
- Mostly taking boots
- Easily fitting in volt-turn teams
- 4 special attacks set is cool but people would prefer another good move to support the team
- Dropping Thunderbolt on many occasions
- Basically 2Hko most Electric immunity mons due to its superior movepools and good spa stat
- Feel trouble with a very common Grass-Type pokemon in the meta but it could take a good counter move to 2hko it
- Feel trouble with a big fat bulky pink mon
- Often got revenge killed by some faster mons
- Lacking recovery
- Got suspected once
who the fuck am I?

 

[Genuine_Angus_B33F]

- Electric-Type
- Electric immunity
- 101 speed
- Mostly taking boots
- Easily fitting in volt-turn teams
- 4 special attacks set is cool but people would prefer another good move to support the team
- Dropping Thunderbolt on many occasions
- Basically 2Hko most Electric immunity mons due to its superior movepools and good spa stat
- Feel trouble with a very common Grass-Type pokemon in the meta but it could take a good counter move to 2hko it
- Feel trouble with a big fat bulky pink mon
- Often got revenge killed by some faster mons
- Lacking recovery
- Got suspected once
who the fuck am I?

... Dedenne?

 

[Negative Charge]

This thing is gigabroken with Tera. You're completely at its mercy until you confirm its tera type. It's too everything. Too strong, too much utility, too bulky. It picks its own checks to an extent unlike anything else in the tier.

 

[bigasschungusboi]

- Electric-Type
- Electric immunity
- 101 speed
- Mostly taking boots
- Easily fitting in volt-turn teams
- 4 special attacks set is cool but people would prefer another good move to support the team
- Dropping Thunderbolt on many occasions
- Basically 2Hko most Electric immunity mons due to its superior movepools and good spa stat
- Feel trouble with a very common Grass-Type pokemon in the meta but it could take a good counter move to 2hko it
- Feel trouble with a big fat bulky pink mon
- Often got revenge killed by some faster mons
- Lacking recovery
- Got suspected once
who the fuck am I?

Thundurus-Therian

 

[Concept Everything]

Thundurus-Therian

Who?

On a more serious note I do think it can feel a bit polarizing on volt-turn cores. udongirl brought up a lot of good points, Shocks is a strong Pokémon no doubt about that, but as the metagame has progressed it has generally become easier to handle. I’m in the boat of DNB, but I’m also lazy and generally don’t go for reqs.

 

[TyCarter]

- Electric-Type
- Electric immunity
- 101 speed
- Mostly taking boots
- Easily fitting in volt-turn teams
- 4 special attacks set is cool but people would prefer another good move to support the team
- Dropping Thunderbolt on many occasions
- Basically 2Hko most Electric immunity mons due to its superior movepools and good spa stat
- Feel trouble with a very common Grass-Type pokemon in the meta but it could take a good counter move to 2hko it
- Feel trouble with a big fat bulky pink mon
- Often got revenge killed by some faster mons
- Lacking recovery
- Got suspected once
who the fuck am I?

Is time a flat circle? Might be.

Is Sandy Shocks an elaborate ruse to distract us from the other problems with the tier? Debatable.

Is pif an elaborate experiment created by the Chinese government to create the ideal stall player? Potentially.

Should the udongirl theorem expand to mons with 95 SpA? Maybe.

Is this a tough scene? Could be.

Sandy Shocks an actual problem? Not sure.

Hotel? Trivago.

Ok jokes aside, Shocks I feel extremely indifferent about regardless of whether it goes or not although to be frank if it was gone I wouldn't miss it if it got banned. It's typing offensively is nice when u factor in tera grass and tera ice. Defensively it's ok with the volt immunity being good but being weak to a lot of common types even if its bulk, namely the physical side compensates for it a bit. It's incredibly good at volting its way out of bad matchups such as , , , and just to name a few. IMO the Shocks+Jugulis combo is what really warranted the use of bulky fairies in and since they could actually dissuade it from repeatedly coming in as freely.

The go to sets have generally been one of booster energy if u want what is an extremely fast hazard setter who is not getting taunted anytime soon and the best shot of denying it is with magic bounce with maybe a tera ghost slapped on so it can potentially spinblock on HO teams on top of stacking hazards quite freely. The other set is Boots where making progress on it can feel impossible at times due to it being sand immune before tera. These sets normally drop thunderbolt with that in mind.

There is also Scarf sets and Sash suicide leads to take into account too which also have their own nuances too even if I think these two are definitely inferior sets but still have niche uses. However, Greninja and Cyclizar have also pushed up the speed benchmarks this means its 101 speed went from excellent to simply good. offensively also gives it a hard time as not even booster is guaranteed to get the jump on it since scarf Gren is legit. Not much of a downgrade but still good although this arguably encouraged more booster sets to see rise especially on Psyterrain Teams if UULT's first cycle has shown us anything so far.

However the cost of tera is also important to factor in for shocks as it generally makes shocks worst off defensively although Tera Grass nowadays is arguably better with rain in the tier and it also means you aren't BP weak alongside gaining an EQ resist which is important in the matchup. Gaining an edge on and also makes it worthwhile even if Tera Ice lets u gain an edge on dragons but to be frank you can always volt your way out of these matchups freely and with arguably little to no consequence although Tera Ice lets you beat common hazard removal options in the tier, take your pick to be frank. Using tera also means losing your volt immunity and gaining what can be argued as a spotty or bad defensive typing in grass and ice respectively.

Should it be banned? I could see it going either way but I'm honestly not sure at the moment.

 

[Liz Angeles]

Much more conflicted on shocks than I was pre drops, the meta isn't overly kind to it atm, but I still lean towards ban, ultimately this mon requires multiple checks on most teams and can even still be a menace. I think the biggest problem is the guessing game over whether it's tera ice or grass that contributes to it getting so many free turns to lay spikes, cyclizar and decidueye have helped combat this somewhat but even they can't keep hazards off consistently vs tera ice variants. This in itself isn't enough to ban it but when combined with the limited defensive counterplay initially and its hit and run potential its massively problematic in this tier

 

[roaringmoonman]

maushold absolutely destroys it due to outspeeding, and none of the sets are running tera ghost

 

[fiish]

maushold absolutely destroys it due to outspeeding, and none of the sets are running tera ghost

maushold gets 2hko'd by volt switch

 

[Skarpherim]

It really comes down to whether you want something that can punish Tinkaton this hard to stay or leave. The whole scenario of Tink clicking rocks or knock off and Sandy coming in to get up a spike - > volt switch or potential earth power -> tera blast on its check is not something that I love, and it feels like you're worse off as the Tinkaton user by existing and letting Sandy in

Sandy has some counterplay, but its ground/electric typing is not normal. The only other mon to ever appear with this type combo is Stunfisk haha. You're really not safe running "only Gastrodon", you need a combination of Gastro + Grass or 1 of Hippowdon/Wo-Chien +

a strong revenger

Other options like Brambleghast, Decidueye, Slither Wing, and Rotom-Heat/Mow are decent too, but you have the same issue where the Sandy user gets such a safe turn to set hazards and volt out. Also I'm sorry, but AV Donphan, Tsareena, Cyclizar, Brute Bonnet, Mudsdale, Bronzong, and all of the other RU pokemon are not very good in a SV UU environment. They're usable, just not better pokemon in the metagame or really even checks against Sandy compared to Wo-Chien, Gastrodon, and Hippowdon

I would miss having Sandy Shocks as my nice Bullet Punch resist if it were gone, but I'll take losing that over getting vortexed by U-turn Scizor / Talon + Volt Sandy. Sandy Shocks also enables those lead hyper offenses we saw in UUPL, which I do not appreciate. SV UU does not lose a lot if we take action here, and it would free up building much more than restrict it. Thinking about it, Tinkaton checks every special attacker in UU/RU besides the random Fires and Electrics. It's Sandys dual typing that basically forces you to run a SpD ground or grass

I'm definitely leaning ban due to Sandy Shocks strain on teambuilding, ability to instantly break through most of its relevant checks, hazard setting capabilities, elite offensive typing, bulk/speed/power, limited options to revenge kill it, how important Tinkaton is right now vs how hard it gets punished by Sandy, and indistinguishable tera type leading to dumb situations like these Wo-Chien Gastrodon

 

[pdt]

It really comes down to whether you want something that can punish Tinkaton this hard to stay or leave. The whole scenario of Tink clicking rocks or knock off and Sandy coming in to get up a spike - > volt switch or potential earth power -> tera blast on its check is not something that I love, and it feels like you're worse off as the Tinkaton user by existing and letting Sandy in

Sandy has some counterplay, but its ground/electric typing is not normal. The only other mon to ever appear with this type combo is Stunfisk haha. You're really not safe running "only Gastrodon", you need a combination of Gastro + Grass or 1 of Hippowdon/Wo-Chien +

a strong revenger

Other options like Brambleghast, Decidueye, Slither Wing, and Rotom-Heat/Mow are decent too, but you have the same issue where the Sandy user gets such a safe turn to set hazards and volt out. Also I'm sorry, but AV Donphan, Tsareena, Cyclizar, Brute Bonnet, Mudsdale, Bronzong, and all of the other RU pokemon are not very good in a SV UU environment. They're usable, just not better pokemon in the metagame or really even checks against Sandy compared to Wo-Chien, Gastrodon, and Hippowdon

I would miss having Sandy Shocks as my nice Bullet Punch resist if it were gone, but I'll take losing that over getting vortexed by U-turn Scizor / Talon + Volt Sandy. Sandy Shocks also enables those lead hyper offenses we saw in UUPL, which I do not appreciate. SV UU does not lose a lot if we take action here, and it would free up building much more than restrict it. Thinking about it, Tinkaton checks every special attacker in UU/RU besides the random Fires and Electrics. It's Sandys dual typing that basically forces you to run a SpD ground or grass

I'm definitely leaning ban due to Sandy Shocks strain on teambuilding, ability to instantly break through most of its relevant checks, hazard setting capabilities, elite offensive typing, bulk/speed/power, limited options to revenge kill it, how important Tinkaton is right now vs how hard it gets punished by Sandy, and indistinguishable tera type leading to dumb situations like these Wo-Chien Gastrodon

I often find myself in the same building constraints as Skarpac, and I am a bit crazier than him so I can attest to the lengths I’ve gone to in order to stop the shocker from making infinite progress. It has too much versatility and utility such that it rarely has dead matchups if 1. the team is built around its set correctly and 2. it is played correctly. with these two assumptions in mind, i agree with yung goat skarpac and lean ban

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

So I wanted to look at replays from my recent open set since all of those feature Sandy Shocks on my opponent's team and I think it's generally important to see how its strengths and playstyle end up doing in an in-game scenario because you can't fully rely on just discussion. This should also probably help explain how I generally handle the mon. Pokemon names underlined, Tera types colored.

Replay 1​

First replay I'd like to analyse is this one https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-691405

Turn 3, Scizor U-Turns as I switch to Pelipper and that allows Shocks to come out without damage. This is a pretty reliable method to get it in and threaten to setup hazards and pivot, but it also reveals to me that Scizor is most likely Boots which notably makes it easy for a few of my mons to just stay in and punish pivot spamming if my opponent attempts to do so in the future.

Turn 4 is really important to show how Sandy Shocks treat progress.

In this case, while I do miss my Hydro Pump, I can attempt to outright kill Shocks because it can fail to make any progress if it attempts to Volt. Seeing as the Gastrodon switch-in is the safe play here and I know my opponent knows that, I'm able to punish what also becomes a safe option, that being Spiking. For further context, this Pelipper, like most offensive Pelipper I run, is Tera Ground, which I consider valuable to punish Electric and Rock types as it generally can just one shot those easily as well. This, of course, includes Sandy Shocks, so that's also a tool I have at my disposal to punish it.

Anyway, since I miss my Pump, Shocks gets to set up another layer as I switch to my Gastro. Some switching around happens until I switch my Mence and my opponent switches their Shocks in at the same time on turn 9. They decide not to Volt Switch here, probably because they don't want Gastrodon switching in, however, seeing as I stayed in last time, they also don't want to take a risk using Spikes or Earth Power. They switch to Scizor to take a modest amount of damage from Earthquake rather than risking losing momentum or eating a lot of damage. I'm not sure I agree with this play, but I want to highlight how Shocks could've been crippled from tanking an Earthquake. In this case, I'm using a mostly Special Mence, so Earthquake wouldn't be especially strong. However, an average roll would do about 65% damage, bringing it in range of Talonflame's Brave Bird 2HKO and Tyranitar's Crunch 1HKO. Seeing as I'm +Spatk, Draco Meteor could even bring it in range of a Pelipper Hurricane 1HKO and Tyranitar Stone Edge 1HKO. This is pretty relevant as, while Shocks is pretty bulky, it becomes a lot more difficult to use properly if it trades a big hit with a mon like Mence. This leads me to another point which is clarifying how I think about Shock's bulk vs how it's presented in the OP.

But the real difference is the bulk. Sandy Shocks is really bulky. Like, for an offensive Pokemon, it's actually kinda crazy how fat it is; 85/97 physical bulk is downright excellent, while 85/85 special bulk is just fine too. This makes it really easy for Sandy Shocks to not only trade with faster Pokemon like Pawmot, Noivern, and Gengar, but also to find switch-in opportunities on some passive walls that can't really hurt it much.

While it is true that Sandy Shocks can trade with offensive mons and switch-into weak defensive mons, it can't do both. Pawmot's CC brings it in range for Tinkaton's Gigaton Hammer for example, and the other way around is also true. Getting hit by the wrong move can mean your Shocks can have a really hard time finding switch-in opportunities or fighting faster mons in the future which I think this turn shows off well.

Anyway moving on, Sandy Shock's Spikes get removed on turn 12 after Scream Tail gives me an easy opportunity to do so. On Turn 14, I force out Pelipper with Lycanroc's Stone Edge and, once again, miss the Shocks. Well since I'm done with it at this point, I decide to just Tera my Lycanroc to Fighting and one shot Shocks. I can also use this opportunity to talk about Shock's bulk more as Stone Edge would have brought it into range of non-tera'd Close Combat in this case. I think this shows that, while it can switch-into resisted moves from defensive mons, even resisted moves from offensive ones will rough it up a bit. In a similar vein, Mence Hurricane into Draco can do a lot of damage and is very likely to kill if running +Spatk.

So anyway this replay was pretty good at showing off that Shocks is surprisingly easy to kill even after cheating death twice.

Replay 2​

Now let's look at a replay where it puts the user in a most likely game-winning state very early: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-691410

It's worth noting here that I'm using a team without an Electric immunity, but between Rotom-Heat and Brambleghast to take Electric moves and Slither Wing having generally decent special bulk, I considered myself to be fine against Shocks in Builder. Anyway let's get into the game.

Shocks gets forced out turn 1 by Weavile as you'd expect. This highlights Shocks's tendency to be a lead as well, though I don't have much to say about that. Anyway, it comes back into Rotom-Heat on turn 3 from a Talonflame U-Turn as I use Nasty Plot. However I get surprised by Power Gem hitting me for a lot of damage as I get greedy trying to predict a switch to a Fire resistance. This is a pretty big blunder on my part as Rotom has an otherwise solid matchup in terms of wallbreaking and defensive utility and taking major damage this early on without any rewards is really bad. This team relies on Shocks not using Power Gem and I could've probably worked around it in some way had I accounted for it, so that's a mistake on my part for underestimating it.

Anyway I can shrug off the next Power Gem with Slither Wing and then switch around until Turn 8.

This is pretty massive damage as it can't even switch into Tinkaton anymore. Shocks getting chipped to a crippling amount of damage seems to be a reoccurring theme with it. It's rather hard to make full use of it if your opponent keeps applying pressure. Anyway, it dies to Salamence's Hurricane a little later on.

Replay 3​

Let's look at the last replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-691399

So on turn 3, Shocks can come in on Scream Tail which is pretty passive, it sets up Spikes on turn 4 on my Decidueye switch-in and it should now have a pretty easy Volt Swit-

Well it got lured by Scarf. There's not much to say about this besides that I've been having a good amount of success luring and killing Shocks with Scarf Decidueye, Scarf Quaquaval and Tera Ground Pelipper. These are sets that I generally consider at least decent and they do a pretty good job at grabbing surprise KOs on Shocks too.

Anyway I'll end this post with thoughts on Shocks that haven't been addressed deeply in these replays.

Tera​

First of all is obviously Tera. I stand by a lot of what I said in my post responding to QoB in February so I'll link it here as well: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-sv-uu-stage-2-1-handclap.3715857/page-2#post-9516753
I think the loss in defensive utility from Tera is still the most important aspect. We've seen in this post already that Sandy Shocks can get into killing ranges pretty quickly, but when you pick up a type like Ice or Grass that stop resisting what you want to and gain more weaknesses, it just gets so much worse. Sure Volt Switch becomes harder to block, but what's the point if switching in is so much more difficult and you can't trade with faster mons due to your new weaknesses. You may also be able to pick up a surprise kill with it, but this makes it much easier for your opponent to commit to their own tera to deal with that hole or to commit to a sweep now that you've lost many of your resistances. One example that sticks in my mind is this replay from UUPL where, after Sandy Shocks decides to Tera to Ice, that player's team gets immediately swept by Scizor: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-679079.

Progress​

I'd also like to talk about how it makes progress. It often has to choose between using Volt Switch and clicking Spikes, something that we've seen on Turn 4 of the first replay shown today. However, making progress consistently can get a bit difficult with the presence of hazard removal options such as Decidueye and Cyclizar that can usually switch into it well and remove its hazards while not fearing Volt Switch. Trading hazards with a Ground type like Hippowdon and Gastrodon is also not necessarily advantageous. Certain teams are also completely fine with Shocks setting up hazards as they're fine just using Boots on every mon. Again, Shocks can have trouble consistently making progress in this case.

Closing thoughts​

None of this is to say that Sandy Shocks is bad. At the end of the day, it's still S tier and doesn't look to be dropping down anytime soon. However, it has its fair share of issues that it has to play around. I'd like to highlight some of the aspects of the tiering policy to show why I don't think Sandy Shocks is too much from the metagame to handle: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tiering-policy-framework.3628026/

II.) Uncompetitive - elements that reduce the effect of player choice / interaction on the end result to an extreme degree, such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.

III.) Broken - elements that are too good relative to the rest of the metagame such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.

• These aren't necessarily completely uncompetitive because they don't take the determining factor out of the player's hands; both can use these elements and both probably have a fair chance to win. They are broken because they almost dictate / require usage, and a standard team without one of them facing a standard team with one of them would be at a drastic disadvantage.

IV.) Unhealthy - elements that are neither uncompetitive nor broken yet are deemed undesirable for the metagame such that they inhibit "skillful play" to a large extent.

Sandy Shocks is obviously not uncompetitive, but I also doubt it's broken. Speaking from experience, you don't need to use it to be succesful and the player using it also has to take some meaningful decisions about setting hazards vs attacking as well as when and if it's worth to use your Tera. It's not a mon you can just click moves with and win, most teams will naturally offer obstacles to it and you'll have to be smart about how you approach them. It doesn't even force you to use an Electric immunity to play around Volt Switch, I've been able to deal with Shocks without being able to block Volt Switch by applying offensive pressure, playing around it well or even just luring it. All that to say, I'll be voting DNB. Thank you for reading this post.

Teams​

Oh and also I'd like to drop the teams I've shown off in these replays or that use examples of how I deal with Shocks.
(Heavy offensive pressure, Game 1)
(No Electric immunities, Game 2)
(Scarf Decidueye lure, Game 3)
(No Electric immunities, Scarf Quaquaval lure)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

uh since the showdown room is currently on mod chat so i will post it here instead because the link for sandy shocks suspect test which is https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...cy-command-thread-new-admins-read-me.3576742/ doesnt work and we cant see it "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action."

 

[Brothers bands]

To be honest i don’t think it should get banned it’s stabs are walled by any grass Pokémon with decent bulk and it’s not hard to slap one on a team like decucuye

 

[I am New]

To be honest i don’t think it should get banned it’s stabs are walled by any grass Pokémon with decent bulk and it’s not hard to slap one on a team like decucuye

Tbf the most common teras r grass and to an extend ground they r no.1 and 3 respectively imho. but like they get volt switched and or tera blast iced and besides wo chien and decid and maybe bramble we dont have great grasses. THose three are good ofc esp wo chien.