-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
np: ORAS UU Stage 7.3 - See No Evil | Baton Pass Suspect - see post #110
- Thread starter Sam
- Start date
- Status
Here are just some of the observations I've made about Baton Pass users in Gen 6 UU. There is no true conclusion I'd like to make from them, since with regards to tiering, I don't have a solid stance on this surprisingly complex move. This is just for anyone's reference (and mine, too).
----------------------------------
This wasn't the first time I've seen Baton Pass heavily influence the metagame. There weren't any infamous BP chains like the ones seen in OU (especially since Espeon dropped both after Scolipede got banned and after one of the older forms of the BP Clause halted this playstyle). Instead, Geomancy, Venomoth, and Scolipede demonstrated what the move could do to tear the metagame apart when stats were passed.
Last time I checked, though, Baton Pass was not the reason for the success and popularity of other Pokémon (that learn the move) that shifted to OU or BL. Togekiss, Hawlucha, and Mew had other prime movesets and qualities going for them to succeed in this tier. Mew in XY UU did Baton Pass stats once in a while, though, and Celebi used Baton Pass about as often as it does today. While they proved to me that Baton Pass was a powerful tool, they never struck me as powerful as the likes of other moves like V-Create.
-----------------------------------
The current Baton Pass Clause was enough to both unban Geomancy (man that was such a long time ago) and get Venomoth to be a stable Pokémon in UU. The Clause didn't save Scolipede (SD + Speed Boost w/o Baton Pass is so good), but it did allow the likes of Celebi, Espeon, and Sylveon to live in the metagame when they dropped from OU.
[I wonder...if Mew had dropped back in by usage, would people still sleep on Baton Pass Mew and direct attention to the Stallbreaker set or SD/NP+3 Attacks like before?]
------------------------------------
Between Celebi's time in OU and its return to UU, Baton Pass saw itself among the tier's Pokémon as a viable option for Espeon, Zapdos, and Shedinja. That's not to say other Pokémon didn't use the move: it was a decent niche option for Vaporeon, Umbreon, Gligar, Mega Absol, Durant, and Togetic.
-------------------------------------
It's kinda nice to see Chicken Pass succeed in this tier for once. I always wondered what it would take for Combusken to put enough points on the board to earn itself a possible viability rank.
----------------------------------
This wasn't the first time I've seen Baton Pass heavily influence the metagame. There weren't any infamous BP chains like the ones seen in OU (especially since Espeon dropped both after Scolipede got banned and after one of the older forms of the BP Clause halted this playstyle). Instead, Geomancy, Venomoth, and Scolipede demonstrated what the move could do to tear the metagame apart when stats were passed.
Last time I checked, though, Baton Pass was not the reason for the success and popularity of other Pokémon (that learn the move) that shifted to OU or BL. Togekiss, Hawlucha, and Mew had other prime movesets and qualities going for them to succeed in this tier. Mew in XY UU did Baton Pass stats once in a while, though, and Celebi used Baton Pass about as often as it does today. While they proved to me that Baton Pass was a powerful tool, they never struck me as powerful as the likes of other moves like V-Create.
-----------------------------------
The current Baton Pass Clause was enough to both unban Geomancy (man that was such a long time ago) and get Venomoth to be a stable Pokémon in UU. The Clause didn't save Scolipede (SD + Speed Boost w/o Baton Pass is so good), but it did allow the likes of Celebi, Espeon, and Sylveon to live in the metagame when they dropped from OU.
[I wonder...if Mew had dropped back in by usage, would people still sleep on Baton Pass Mew and direct attention to the Stallbreaker set or SD/NP+3 Attacks like before?]
------------------------------------
Between Celebi's time in OU and its return to UU, Baton Pass saw itself among the tier's Pokémon as a viable option for Espeon, Zapdos, and Shedinja. That's not to say other Pokémon didn't use the move: it was a decent niche option for Vaporeon, Umbreon, Gligar, Mega Absol, Durant, and Togetic.
-------------------------------------
It's kinda nice to see Chicken Pass succeed in this tier for once. I always wondered what it would take for Combusken to put enough points on the board to earn itself a possible viability rank.
Because priority twave is aids
Nah it's not prio Thunder Wave at all lol.
People tend to judge a Pokémon way too hasty and talk shit about it connecting it with the dark past they have in mind, trying to keep the reputation low. Lol Klefki is so annoying XD SwagPlay XD which isn't a fucking thing since ages.
Adding Klefki would actually be fine by me as the only good spiker you can fit on offense is Roserade which isn't splashable rly. Klefki could fit on a lot of archetypes and wouldn't do much of an impact in the tier, possibly even make the tier better as you gain a reliable check to Hydreigon, Celebi, Kyurem, Conkeldurr, Sylveon and couple more.
I'm down to vouch for a Klefki retest, actually as we just judge solely on the past and ignoring the positive aspects it could possibl bring to the tier :P
People tend to judge a Pokémon way too hasty and talk shit about it connecting it with the dark past they have in mind, trying to keep the reputation low. Lol Klefki is so annoying XD SwagPlay XD which isn't a fucking thing since ages.
Adding Klefki would actually be fine by me as the only good spiker you can fit on offense is Roserade which isn't splashable rly. Klefki could fit on a lot of archetypes and wouldn't do much of an impact in the tier, possibly even make the tier better as you gain a reliable check to Hydreigon, Celebi, Kyurem, Conkeldurr, Sylveon and couple more.
I'm down to vouch for a Klefki retest, actually as we just judge solely on the past and ignoring the positive aspects it could possibl bring to the tier :P
I agree with your post for the most part although I think we should also consider the side effects Klefki could bring alongside it's ability to check some of the biggest threats to this metagame. The issue i'd have with Klefki is our tiers current lack of good hazard removers. It has been said many times already, having a reliable hazard remover that can fit in most teams is pretty hard these days, we usually end up using Tentacruel & Empoleon because that's just the best we have got right now but their offensive presence is really limited. Basically, removing hazards is a big issue with teambuilding in UU right now and adding Klefki to the tier would make spikes stacking teams a bit too good for my own taste considering how splashable of a pokemon klefki would be.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Ya I also feel that UU has adequate hazard removal answers to deal with Klefki that people had mentioned previously. I also would not mind more hazard stack offense due to the fact that balance and bulky offense are dominating the meta rn, and an extra way to break these teams (apart from Hydreigon and NP Celebi) is always nice imo.
Edit: also realized that Klefki checks offense with prio Twave, so it's a nice double edge sword.
Edit: also realized that Klefki checks offense with prio Twave, so it's a nice double edge sword.
My fear is that allowing Klefki to the tier would centralize the metagame around getting hazards up or removing them. While both of them do pretty well vs klefki there are still many ways to pressuring them in the tier so assuming the team has means of pressuring empo & tenta they'll both have trouble to remove hazards.
edit: I honestly wouldn't mind a suspect even though the tier still has to decide what to do with Celebi which has already been brought up many times in this thread.
Last edited:
Thats why a retest is what I suggested and not completely free it, as we could possibly see how it performs in the current metagame. You can probably notice if its ''too good'' (which I highlyyyyyyy doubt) or just a nice addition, and we would follow it up with a vote respectively. Honestly, literally every hazard remover shits on Klefki and it can do nothing against them as they just gain a free switch everytime Klefki is tryin to spike up so I don't see where the real issue is. Klefki also takes up your Steel-type which could make you weaker to like Mega Aero or Bee if you don't have a Forretress, who is still a v good spiker, on that slot so I don't see how it could be too god at its job.
Just ban baton pass so I can have an excuse to finally stop playing pokemon at 23 years old, thanks. Just in case my lazy argument wasn't enough, just let me go ahead and trigger most UU people into some dark memories...
Also, side note, where the fuck are you guys running into BP so much thats got you so salty? In the ~5 THOUSAND games I played before Celebi and after complex BP ban, I bet I've seen BPing stat boosts against me maybe 15 times. I would bet most UU folks have seen my team more than all other BP teams combined. It's such a small part of the metagame, it's crazy that people get so worked up about it. In my actual opinion, it's Celebi that's the problem, but it was obvious that it was going to be a problem from the moment it dropped.
Also, side note, where the fuck are you guys running into BP so much thats got you so salty? In the ~5 THOUSAND games I played before Celebi and after complex BP ban, I bet I've seen BPing stat boosts against me maybe 15 times. I would bet most UU folks have seen my team more than all other BP teams combined. It's such a small part of the metagame, it's crazy that people get so worked up about it. In my actual opinion, it's Celebi that's the problem, but it was obvious that it was going to be a problem from the moment it dropped.
Last edited:
BP should be banned just for your team alone... The nightmares.Just ban baton pass so I can have an excuse to finally stop playing pokemon at 23 years old, thanks. Just in case my lazy argument wasn't enough, just let me go ahead and trigger most UU people into some dark memories...
Also, side note, where the fuck are you guys running into BP so much thats got you so salty? In the ~5 THOUSAND games I played before Celebi and after complex BP ban, I bet I've seen BPing stat boosts against me maybe 15 times. I would bet most UU folks have seen my team more than all other BP teams combined. It's such a small part of the metagame, it's crazy that people get so worked up about it. In my actual opinion, it's Celebi that's the problem, but it was obvious that it was going to be a problem from the moment it dropped.
As for Klefki, I've always thought it was the one BL mon that could most reasonably be released back into the tier. The big issue would probably be Spikes as mentioned - the prevalence of Stealth Rock is one thing, considering you can build teams that aren't terribly SR weak. Meanwhile, it's much harder to build a team that isn't weak to hazard stacking without good hazard control.
Voting is complete, and Baton Pass is banned from UU.
The Immortal
New np thread coming shortly.
picture credits NananaBatman / Isa
A) Ban Baton Pass
B) Ban Baton Pass + stat boosting moves and items
C) Suspect Celebi
D) Do nothing
dodmen: A
Sam: B
Hogg: A
King UU: B
IronBullet: A
Pearl: A
Christo: A
Tony: A
Ice Tea: A
B) Ban Baton Pass + stat boosting moves and items
C) Suspect Celebi
D) Do nothing
dodmen: A
Sam: B
Hogg: A
King UU: B
IronBullet: A
Pearl: A
Christo: A
Tony: A
Ice Tea: A
The Immortal
New np thread coming shortly.
picture credits NananaBatman / Isa
Last edited:
- Status