np: ORAS UU Stage 7.2 - Asteroid

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Adaam

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Things like Lucario, MegaPert, Gyara and Cobalion can all try to set up on a -2 Hydreigon, but literally none of them can comfortably switch in to LO or Specs Hydreigon. LO Draco does 70-80% to MegaPert, has a guaranteed OHKO on Gyarados after rocks, and does a ridiculous 60% to Cobalion (a moderately bulky Pokemon that resists). Slurpuff of course can come in safely on a Draco, but doesn't want to switch into any other moves from LO/Specs (if rocks are down, switching into LO Dark Pulse is guaranteed to prevent a BD). Lucario is almost always 2HKOd by Draco despite both the resist and the -2 drop. Yes, offensive teams can try to sack something to Hydreigon and set up on it, which is why I agree that LO/Specs is way more dangerous versus bulkier teams than versus offense, but even in those instances where Hydreigon's matchup is at its worst, it still almost always ends up doing work (as evidenced by the above calcs).

And yeah, there are other wallbreakers that can apply almost as much pressure as Hydreigon, like the Entei you referenced. But Hydreigon is faster and despite Entei's greater bulk gets way more switch-in opportunities, thanks to not being hazard weak plus recovery plus having a typing that can easily switch in on common moves like Scald.
I get that, I was just responding to a comment where someone said there was "literally no drawbacks" to Hydreigon. I'm not saying to hard switch these Pokemon into a Hydreigon, but they can all punish Hydreigon at -2.
 
comparing hydreigon to entei isn't really fair anyways when entei is at best questionably balanced. anything that has so few switch-ins and consistently burns them with a powerful stab move is never going to be openly welcomed in any tier, and it only gets worse when you couple it with espeed to make it not only absurd at pressuring balance/bulky offense teams but also great at pressuring offensive teams and preventing fast stuff from rolling over your own offensive team at very low cost.

uu is in a state where if you ban anything, other stuff gets thrown out of whack. hydreigon leaving makes krookodile and celebi even better on top of a lot of other things getting slightly better because hydreigon's defensive typing allows it to pivot into a large chunk of the metagame. sylveon leaving would make hydreigon better. mamoswine leaving would make dragons, sceptile, beedrill, etc. better. the list of things people complain about in this tier goes on because all together, a bunch of shit is broken. the more concentrated the threats become, the less strained teambuilding will become to check all the common metagame threats. with the way the metagame is right now, stuff like salamence, hydreigon, celebi, krookodile, etc. all fit (or did fit) so well on so many teams because they simultaneously put immense pressure on teams and checked a bunch of stuff defensively as well thanks to their fantastic typings and great bulk for offensive pokemon.

basically what i'm getting at is that as long as so many threats exist in one place, the tier is going to be toxic to play (imo at least!), and debating over whether or not certain things are broken feels pointless when so many things are broken. hopefully the tier gets in a better state by the end of oras. as long as suspect testing is held liberally, i think it can be done.
 

Sam

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Gonna say I wholly disagree with the sentiments in your post. I think UU has had 2 toxic mons in Alakazam and Salamence, which is why those 2 which suspected in quick succession. Hydreigon has legitimate merits to a potential suspect and I'm not going to speak definitively but there's probably going to be a Hydreigon suspect down the line. I didn't want to immediately rush in to a Hydreigon suspect because I don't think it's as metagame-breaking as the other 2, meaning we have time to wait.

For Celebi, I think the potential is there but at this very moment I don't think Celebi is worthy of being suspected. As for everything else (Sylveon, Mamoswine, Krookodile), I don't think those are anywhere close to suspect worthy. Sylveon's best set is a cleric set, Specs is good but suffers from a few key faults that stop it from being great, much less worthy of a suspect. Mamoswine has recently dropped down in the viability rankings and hasn't been in serious talks of being broken since it dropped over a year ago. It's slow and doesn't offer much defensively besides an electric immunity. It's always been good but has been seriously let down by these flaws, I think Omfuga is the only one who has seriously vied for a Mamoswine suspect any time recently. Krookodile is a very good offensive mon but is hampered far too much by depending on choice-lock for damage and it very very easily checked. That's not to say non-choice Krook sets aren't good (there are some good options like Taunt and SR) but the damage is pretty lacking which makes it even easier to check/counter.

I don't think the meta is toxic at all right now. There's at most 2 broken things in the tier and even then I think 1 is somewhat subjective, the other very subjective. The meta is more offensively inclined right now, but deviating from a balance-oriented meta doesn't necessarily make it toxic. Liberal suspect testing has merits in an unstable metagame (beginning of a generation usually), but liberal suspect testing right now would disrupt the meta pretty badly right now and is definitely not the direction the tier is going to be taking as this generation comes to a close.
 

Josh

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Yo uu guys help me out. Suicune is the mon holding me back from enjoying this tier because of how ridiculous I, a player who's only uu experience is getting ready a few times, think it is, so I'm curious why it's never brought up for a suspect and why it's a good addition to the tier. And if your argument involves Celebi, do you think it should be banned without Celebi in the tier? (I had a draft in a random smogon thread before Celebi dropped)
 
Yo uu guys help me out. Suicune is the mon holding me back from enjoying this tier because of how ridiculous I, a player who's only uu experience is getting ready a few times, think it is, so I'm curious why it's never brought up for a suspect and why it's a good addition to the tier. And if your argument involves Celebi, do you think it should be banned without Celebi in the tier? (I had a draft in a random smogon thread before Celebi dropped)
From what I've experienced, it is bulky (101 HP + Pressure), can phaze key attackers like Gatr with Roar and water is great defensively.

But what holds it back is a few key mons (besides Celebi); Heliolisk, Whimsicott, Sub Gatr, CM Slowking, Chesnaught (great Krookodile check as well) Sub Roost Kyurem to just name a few. Other key mons are CurseLax. If it's the mono attacking set, it can be checked by numerous water absorb mons. If it runs coverage it loses RestTalk. If it runs Roar, it loses something else.

It can even be Stall break by Hydre, as well.

It suffers from serious 4mss. If you have any of the above mons it's usually not as big of an issue. That's my opinion though...
 
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Suicune is really strong atm and imo the roar+cm set is perhaps the most powerful sets in the tier if given the correct support. Suicune itself I haven't found to be that much of a problem but every team does need to specifically consider it probably moreso than most threats when building. I don't think it's broken myself, I don't think it was broken in BW UU either where I think it was better, granted we had raikou and zapdos back then but I don't think their prescence challenged cune as much as the dry skin, celebi, knock off and whimsicott which we didn't have then/weren't viable then. Patrick mentioned a few counters (guts bandcross is a notable other I would add) but honestly, the fact that cune's only recovery is restalk really limits how aggresively it can be played ime. For physically oriented offense for example, it's often a beneficial trade for such players to sacrifice their krook to strip 50% and lefties off cune/force it to rest without lefties as then all it take is for something that can deal 34% to it to switch in and force it out/not get burned by scald which is obviously annoying.

The mon that I feel is perhaps not broken but makes building offense much less enjoyable since mence's departure is entei. Offense just doesn't have a switch in any more as sacred fire is so ridiculously safe and entei has enough bulk and speed to quite easily get off a couple each game. Flash fire is really the best option offense has and all the entei player has to do is guess right once on the switch in and it's sacred fire bs willy nilly. I think the mon that comes closest to comparing to entei's ridiculous level of safe brainless plays while still threatening to revenge the majority of offensive sweepers sitting at around 50% (the only significant common exceptions I think are coba and aero and megapertish) is crawdaunt which has much less speed and much less bulk as well as fewer switch opportunities due to scald. Maybe it's just me but I find offense to be much harder to build consistently than balance really just due to entei.
 
Hello uu people ! :)

I'm not too sure where to post this, i was told it was the thread to talk about the meta. I want a bit of your opinions and help. So lately i've been discovering uu and been playing it more seriously since the zam suspect. I've been having a lot of fun so far, i werent too much into pokemon before playing uu. However since the Celebi drop i've been having trouble teambuilding. It seems to me that it has somehow killed creativity and pushed some threats over the top. But that might be just me which is why i'm asking for your opinions ! Maybe i was too much of a noob before to realise this actually.

Anyway, every team i'm encountering (i only play on the ladder i'm not involved that much) seems to be something like Entei / Celebi / fairy (usually Sylveon) / Krookodile or Hydreigon / fighting type (usually Cobalion or Conkeldurr) / fast mega like Aerodactyl or Tentacruel. And i have trouble to build something thats a bit different because otherwise i get completely destroyed by people who brainlessly spams sacred fires / hyper voices because who cares when you have Celebi and Krookodile in the back to punish. On one hand you have very threatening stuff like Aerodactyl, Entei, Krookodile (who are already pretty dumb i mean they have so much power and retarded side effects in being able to burn 50% of the time or knocking the item and super accurate moves and actually decent speed and bulk and switch opportunities lol) who has very limited switchins BUT they are still pressured by bulky waters and the threatening Scald and stuff like Hydreigon who could outspeed and smash every switchin. On the other hand you get a ridiculously good grass type who deals with about every standard water type (and switches into them for almost free) and outspeeds and KO Hydreigon or just u turn to gain momentum idk to me that seems like really busted sometimes... Granted it was the same before with stuff like Whimsicott / Rotom-C / whatever but these have more flaws like being either too weak or too slow or not having an ideal stab or not enough bulk. I know that it doesnt have a lot of immediate power but its coverage, versatility and bulk make it still very hard to handle. It's not like it's super easy to switch into it. I'm not gonna say more i think you all know that Celebi can do a lot of things well. Every team i'm seeing so far in the ladder is more or less this type of bulky offense and i'm having a lot of trouble with it. It seems to me like there's one or two viable pokemon for each type and if you use another it's just good but so inferior. Like Entei is pretty much the best fire type, Celebi the best grass type, Hydreigon the best dragon type etc.

I know from the uu chatroom that not too much people are asking for a Celebi suspect and more believe that Hydreigon, Sylveon or other are more suspect worthy (i think these are alright personally) but i think we should really consider it not only because it sweeps very easily once some faster threats are removed but because it brings a ton of support to some already top threats which centralizises the tier imo. I'm not saying i would 100% ban it however, it's just to see how the meta would be. So i'm asking what you think and give me your solutions, help me combat this with some underrated threats possibly cause i'm failing to do so other than relying on extremely standard stuff or surprise factor (and it's unreliable as fuck). Don't be afraid to tell me i'm wrong or just bad at this game ^^ Yeah long post i know but i've been thinking of this a lot lately and it bothers me cause i like this tier. Peace
 

Vague

Banned deucer.
I mentioned this before, but Fire switch-ins are seriously hard to come by these days with Salamence finally gone. A few of the more prominent switch-ins such as, Suicune, Swampert, Snorlax, Diancie, and Alomomola, all have a recurring theme among them bar Suicune, which is that they're pretty passive and drains so much momentum from offensive teams. So one day when i was trying to fill in some gaps in one of my teams, i came across some of these bad boys.


Noivern @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 60 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse / Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Taunt
- Roost

Meet Noivern. It surprisingly /easy/ to fit onto offensive teams that relied on Salamence as a switch-in to dangerous threats like Entei, Infernape, and a slew of other Fighting-types. It obviously doesn't have Intimidate nor the extra power, but what it does have is a great speed tier and access to Taunt. Now you're probably thinking "Why use this over Crobat?" Yes, Crobat is amazing, but the sole reason to use this is if you ever need a decent Fire switch-in and if course a switch-in to whatever else Noivern resists. The EV spread is designed to be able to tank CB Sacred Fires and Close Combats with much more ease than an offensive set. 200 Spe is enough to outrun Whimsicott, while the rest are placed into SpA to power up its moves a bit. Speaking of moves, Draco Meteor gives it a relatively powerful move to just click when you don't need its utility. Dragon Pulse is much more consistent, but the power drop is very noticeable. You could even run Toxic for Noivern to function as a dedicated Stallbreaker. I find Flamethrower is pretty necessary to ensure Steels don't come into it all willy-nilly. Taunt isn't necessary, but it's great utility that ensures that things can't setup on Noivern and simply break past it. I like Leftovers, but you could run Dragon Fang to power up its Dragon STAB. All in all, it's not Salamence, but it's actually a pretty useful mon' when it's perks are needed.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 148-174 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 120-140 (32.1 - 37.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 149-177 (39.9 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 147-174 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


Omastar @ Mystic Water
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Shell Smash

This is another Fire switch-in I've toyed with and i like it a lot. It can come in on Entei near scot-free and proceed to setup all over it. It's a really dangerous late-game cleaner since tanking a +2 anything is pretty hard, add a ridiculous amount of speed and then things get out of hand quick. I live life on the fast break, but even I cringe from missing a crucial Hydro Pump so Scald is always a nice alternative. Ice Beam + Hidden Power [Grass] is necessary coverage to ensure maximum cleaning capability. I think Mystic Water is better than Focus Sash since it powers up Water STAB without any recoil to stop the sweep short and hazard removal has gotten a little harder to fit onto teams. It still an alright option though for a guaranteed boost.


Flygon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 104 HP / 164 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Defog
- Fire Blast / Roost

it's gud i swear I think Flygon is actually a pretty OK mon now since it removes hazards, pivots into Entei, and has a rather nice typing that allows it to come in on some very dangerous threats without much of an issue. I honestly believe that the Specially Offensive variant is what should be used when you're specifically using it as an Entei switch-in and Defogger. I don't see the point in using a physically offensive variant when you're literally have a 50% chance of being burned each time you come in on it. Obviously, this is pretty generalized since Entei isn't on every team, but it's the insurance that's appealing to me. I can see how the extra power catches the eye of some, but it's just my opinion. This EV spread gives it enough bulk to avoid the 2HKO from Entei Sacred Fire (burns not factored) and by extension other relatively powerful moves it resists. 240 Spe is enough to outrun Hydreigon, while the rest are placed in SpA for a power boost. On some more heavy offensive teams, Fire Blast might prove more useful than Roost, but not very often if you want a consistent Defogger. Leftovers is necessary to avoid a ton of potential 2HKOes. Obviously, the spread can be switched around to fit more physical needs. Please don't knock Flygon before you really try it. You'll find that it fits in more of your teams than you think.

So yeah, these are just a few things that i've toyed with when adapting to the constantly changing metagame. :>

e: lord of bays, if you can fit curselax on an offensive team and not see the issue with that then idk what to say. bandlax is cool though
 
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YABO

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As someone who's used omastar a ton, I can assure you that Hydro Pump is necessary, especiallyif lacking Earth Power. You need Hydro to actually consider breaking through Sylv/Florg without considerable chip on them. I also prefer Epower to HP Grass since nailing Tenta/Empo super effectively is often preferable to doing like 60 to Suicune at +2. I do like the idea of Mystic Water tho, since sash doesn't come into play all that often depending on the team and a clitch 20% boost could be really useful in some instances.
 
I'm sorry, not to invalidate the rest of your post because it DOES bring a lot of underrated Pokemon to light (my last good team was 6-0'd by LO Noivern), but did you just call Curse- and Bandlax momentum sinks? One is one of the most potent set-up sweepers in the tier and the other puts the fear of god in men if you give it Facade/cleric support.
 

freezai

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Oh are we talking Noivern?
I've been using Noivern a lot lately and it brings a lot to the table that Hydreigon can't. It has flying stab Hurricane which lets it breeze through (see what I did there) stuff like Conkeldurr and Celebi. Its also really nice to naturally outspeed Whimsicott. Its coverage is basically set with Focus BLast Hurricane Draco Meteor and roost. Focus blast does a real nice job clunking steels, its a 2hko on spdef empoleon for instance. Basically, its really nice versus offense and exposes a lot of celebi+conk teams which are everywhere because of its natural speed and STAB Combo. Its low power compared to Hydreigon isnt too noticeable. In fact, I would say its only major flaw is its reliance on inaccurate moves.




Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Focus Blast


252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 200-237 (53.7 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 226-266 (66.2 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 207-244 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Damage comparision between scarf hydra and LO Noivern, not exactly comparable but eh

tldr: Beats conk and celebi 1v1 and its speed is really nice
 
Noivern is i think underrated. It's so good against Hyper Offense and can be good against other offense, it seems outclassed by Hydreigon but actually it benefits from it because people are packing Whimsicott, Cobalion and fighting type priority to deal with it and Noivern outspeeds them and destroys them. This mon needs more love.
 

Vague

Banned deucer.
Noivern is what I'd call, a "high risk, moderate reward" type of mon'. It's STAB combo is frankly great, especially Hurricane since Flying STAB is powerful force these days, and it has the movepool to cheese by your normal Flying resists bar SpD Bronzong, Diancie, and ridiculously bulky things like AloBliss. It may not be as powerful as LO Hydreigon, but it's high base power moves make up for that and speed makes it incredibly hard to control once the opposition has be weakened even slightly. Of course, it's not going to be shredding cores back to back, but from my experience its never really deadweight even against bulkier teams. It fall short of guaranteeing 2HKOes though without the help of Stealth Rock, so Choice Specs is actually an OK set, not better than Orb imo, but still nice for crippling passive things like the aforementioned Bronzong or Suicune with Switcheroo.

Overall, it's actually a pretty nice mon even with slight competition in Hydreigon. But the perks that it has that Rattled Snakes pointed out, as well as other of the more obvious perks makes it a solid choice for quite a few teams.
 
I don't think of them as competition really - in fact, Noivern works well in tandem with Hydreigon as partners in my opinion. Hydreigon has considerably greater wallbreaking power, but Noivern's speed and crucial resistance to Fighting can really help weaken or threaten some of Hydra's checks. LO Noivern guarantees an OHKO on all non-vest Conks with Hurricane (and does 75-91% on vested), outspeeds pretty much everything to Taunt threats that try and setup or sleep, and can laugh at subbed mons that threated Hydra such as Lucario. Noivern even forces Hydra out itself (although it can't switch in) thanks to the Draco Meteor OHKO.

LO-boosted / Specs STAB Hurricane is also just f**king amazing in UU in general, it's so spammable thanks to its amazing coverage and lack of common key resists. In fact of all S- and A-rank Pokemon (i.e. the common threats), only Mega Aero and Empoleon resist Hurricane (and Aero can't switch in safely), and among the neutrals, only Snorlax and Cresselia can really tank it easily, both of which are slow and easy to take down with other team members. You can even U-turn on a suspected switch-in and provide yourself with momentum to take them down easier.

Yeah they both share weaknesses to Fairy, Dragon and Ice, but the ability to wallbreak with one dragon and outspeed everything with another can make quite the powerhouse offensive core. Build the team around them, with strong steels and bulky waters to take on the attackers that threaten them (Mamoswine, Sylveon, etc) and I think it could work quite well.
 

Punchshroom

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If you ask me, Noivern's greatest competition is not with other Dragons, but with Tornadus. Both have access to Flying-type STAB as their main attack, but Tornadus's is so much stronger; it actually outdamages Noivern's Draco Meteor by a marginal amount, which by extension means Tornadus is more capable to 2HKOing mons and offers higher reward to its risk. It fares better against Celebi + Conk as a result, and is really hard to check with bulky Steels (Metagross is not a check at all) while Noivern needs to hit 2 Focus Blasts, one of them on the switch.
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 455-538 (113.4 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 382-452 (95.2 - 112.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 315-374 (89.7 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO, 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 265-312 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 181-214 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 193-228 (56.1 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 286-338 (95 - 112.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 152-179 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not to mention that Tornadus is more versatile, whether it be attacking movepool with moves like Grass Knot, Sludge Wave, and Superpower, utility via Prankster Taunt or Tailwind, or even as an all-out physical attacker with Acrobatics and Bulk Up. Noivern definitely has perks what with its higher Speed, Roost, and STAB Draco Meteor, but even those advantages have limitations such as outspeeding only notably Whimsicott, not having the raw power and bulk to make full use of Roost, and the remaining relevant Dragons still being KOed by Torn's Hurricane / Focus Blast (bar Mega Amph).
 

Kink

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If you ask me, Noivern's greatest competition is not with other Dragons, but with Tornadus. Both have access to Flying-type STAB as their main attack, but Tornadus's is so much stronger; it actually outdamages Noivern's Draco Meteor by a marginal amount, which by extension means Tornadus is more capable to 2HKOing mons and offers higher reward to its risk. It fares better against Celebi + Conk as a result, and is really hard to check with bulky Steels (Metagross is not a check at all) while Noivern needs to hit 2 Focus Blasts, one of them on the switch.
Not to mention that Tornadus is more versatile, whether it be attacking movepool with moves like Grass Knot, Sludge Wave, and Superpower, utility via Prankster Taunt or Tailwind, or even as an all-out physical attacker with Acrobatics and Bulk Up. Noivern definitely has perks what with its higher Speed, Roost, and STAB Draco Meteor, but even those advantages have limitations such as outspeeding only notably Whimsicott, not having the raw power and bulk to make full use of Roost, and the remaining relevant Dragons still being KOed by Torn's Hurricane / Focus Blast (bar Mega Amph).
I think you're underselling Noivern a little. It has the exact same bulk as Crobat, which means roost is still an extremely effective option. Tornadus definitely has a lot of offensive options, but it has no recovery outside of ChestoRest, and by then its set has been revealed.

Noivern's main competition is definitely Hydreigon, due to their similar move pools and roles. Noivern's higher speed and access to Hurricane/Boomburst is probably the only reason to use it over Hydreigon, and even then it's very team dependent; however, Tornadus is hardly the main point of contention. It goes without saying it is weaker than Torn, but considering it can still OHKO the same Celebi and Conk sets, 2HKO the majority of the Bulky Offense tier, and utilize its support moves alongside LO, it can still get the job done fine, with the proper support. It's almost a fusion of Hydreigon and Crobat.
 

Punchshroom

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I think you're underselling Noivern a little. It has the exact same bulk as Crobat, which means roost is still an extremely effective option. Tornados definitely has a lot of options, but it has no recovery outside of ChestoRest, and by then it's set has been revealed.
The reason I don't particularly value Roost on Noivern as opposed to Crobat is because Crobat has some really effective resistances to go along with its bulk, such as 4x Fighting, 4x Grass, 4x Bug, Poison + immunity, and perhaps most notably Fairy, allowing it to reliably check things like Mega Beedrill, Whimsicott, Roserade, Sylveon, etc., plus it can quickly dispatch most of the mons it checks to compensate not going for Roost. Meanwhile, there are a good amount of strong Pokemon in the tier, such as Entei, Heracross, and Crawdaunt, that can limit the usefulness of Noivern's resistances, and a good majority of those are not really safe for Noivern to find time to Roost against since it usually fails to immediately threaten the OHKO. Noivern can barely make use of its Water resistance in my experience since its middling power + 4x Ice weakness is really bothersome for it. I will admit Noivern does check certain things like Celebi and Infernape better than Crobat can.

Noivern's main competition is definitely Hydreigon, due to their similar move pools and roles. Noivern's higher speed and access to Hurricane/Boomburst is probably the only reason to it over Hydreigon, and even then it's very team dependent; however, Tornadus is hardy the main point of contention. It goes without saying it is weaker than Torn, but considering it can still OHKO the same Celebi and Conk sets, 2HKO the majority of the Bulky Offense tier, and utilize its support moves alongside LO, it can still get the job done fine, with the proper support. It's almost a fusion of Hydreigon and Crobat.
I don't know if Noivern's and Hydreigon's roles are comparable; Hydrei plays like a holepuncher that can go the stallbreaking route, and I hesitate to say that Noivern performs well enough to be considered either of those (even with Taunt, Noivern's 2-move coverage is a bit awkward, and it's definitely too weak to consider forgoing Draco like Taunt Hydrei can). I always saw Noivern as one of those high Speed tier attackers that can harass offense, be it HO or bulky offense, thanks to powerful STAB moves backed by potent neutral coverage, and the mon that seems most comparable to that imo is Tornadus.
 
Since we are talking about Noivern, i've used it quite a bit so here is what i experienced. When teambuilding Noivern is a middle ground between chosing to use something like Tornadus with Tailwind and scarfed Hydreigon, with the intent of destroying offense. And i do believe its matchup against HO is the only reason to run Noivern because against anything else it's mediocre. It's not so good against bulky offense who typically use stuff you would want to switch into with your typing but can't, like Entei, Krookodile, grass types like Celebi, Whimsicott, Sceptile etc and then you obviously have stuff like Cresselia, Sylveon, Snorlax etc who are hard to get past with Hurricane or Trick because you'll have to hit Hurricane a lot which is unreliable and it's not even a 2KO most of the time and this is probably the reason why people think Noivern is unsuable and don't want to risk it, also being locked worsens its matchup versus offensive teams which is the main advantage to using Noivern. Against Stall and Semi Stall its not good and i'm not gonna explain why cause it's obvious.

Now against HO it's really amazing tbh. Typical answers to scarfed Hydreigon who is a gigantic threat to this playstyle get completely destroyed by it. Think Cobalion, Whimsicott etc. or strategies like beating it by stacking priority moves esp fighting type priority or speed boosting sweeper just doesnt work against Noivern. It will be revenging stuff that Hydreigon and Tornadus can't like Infernape, Galvantula, Heliolisk, Azelf, Tornadus, Whimsicott and getting kos after Stealth Rock with Life Orb Draco Meteor or Hurricane and what doesn't fall to that will be destroyed by Flamethrower (you can do that with choice specs i guess but do you really want to risk missing Hurricane or using Flamethrower against Krookodile, Gyarados, Entei...?lol). Compared to Tornadus it outspeeds Azelf and Whimsicott and has a better stab in Draco Meteor who allows it to not miss all the time and not having Aerodactyl countering you which is useful because these are common in the playstyle. I think the set with Life Orb Draco Meteor, Hurricane, Flamethrower and Roost is the best (this is probably a very unpopular opinion lol). I never found Taunt to be useful in practice because everything that you would want to taunt like suicide leads, Aerodactyl and Azelf, can ko you back and mons who wall you take almost nothing from your hits, if they are not statused or still have their lefties you just lose to moonblast, ice beam, seismic toss, body slam so yeah lol. Even Suicune i mean you end up roosting so much with the lo damage and the very likely burn, if you can't status it you'll have a lot of trouble. Yeah you could use Taunt to prevent Defog which is cool since this thing love Spikes but i mean Crobat outspeeds you and Empoleon beats you by virtue of its typing and Mega Aerodactyl beats you you're left with Mandibuzz and Gligar and these are definitely not the most common defoggers i would much rather have the extra coverage. I found Roost to be actually useful because sometimes offensive teams were relying on priority to beat it and i could just roost on suckerpunches from the likes of Toxicroak or on stuff like Conkeldurr and Cobalion or on switches. Pretty usefull because offense typically pressures your hazard control a lot. You should NOT use Roost Noivern like you use Roost Hydreigon, obviously you can't take advantage of its resist as well as you can with Hydreigon.

For the teammates :) Forretress is a nice teammate that will spin for it, set up spikes so you can wear down some bulky mons like cleric Sylveon, Snorlax etc, switch into Mega Aerodactyl and Beedrill that outspeeds Noivern you know. You have Mamoswine to get a better matchup versus fatter teams, with Knock Off possibly to help breaking Cresselia and more (and Roost Noivern is good versus shuca Cobalion!!), Ice Shard kills everything that outspeeds Noivern. You can use Roar Suicune to take advantage of the hazard, counter speed boosting threats like Feraligatr, Gyarados that troubles Noivern. Or Haze Milotic if you want a switch to Hydreigon. These are examples of good uu mons that pair well with Noivern. Yep thats it i encourage you to try this uncommon pokemon who's definitely not as bad as its usage suggest it is (well at least in my opinion). I mean people are using Donphan and Vaporeon much more lol. Have fun ^^
 
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