Metagame np: NU Stage 10 - I'll Be Home For Christmas

[Machineae]

That was probably this guy tbh

Also speaking on taunt, I'm starting to actually value it again. I was never crazy about it before but w/ plenty of set up sweepers and bulky slow stuff like Mush/Mdino/Lix being super popular it definitely has more uses now. It wasn't unviable before by any means, but now I feel like it's stronger. Idk, no real concrete reason why or anything like that but I always thought it was a waste of a slot on something like LO 3attacks Floatzel when I could run BP in the last slot. Now Taunt doesn't feel useless. Lix having it as well is real nice. It's probably one of the mons that can consistently beat Mushy without trouble.

 

[TheMasterOP]

*Sceptile is one of the best Wallbreaker of history of the tier with a lot physical and special attacks becomes a major threat in their tier sets simply try to attack and weaken their rivals in the field or boost with sword dance and kill Its main function is to kill all the Pokemon who are in its path and it is unpredictable in every sense.

*Steelix It is the Mawile 2.0 Why? It has a fairly high statistical defense and has a good typing that despite many weaknesses that grants will make you immune to electric type a type which is common in the metagame can be used defensive, Tank, Custap lead ,to offensive with sheer force.

 

[XenoTech N]

Just going to drop in with what I think will be the defensive Steelix set of the meta (assuming people don't completely ignore this post).

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 76 Atk / 188 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Toxic / Taunt / Roar
So Steelix is a ridiculous physical wall, although kinda wimpy specially so Sturdy is definitely the ability of choice. Leftovers are obvious choice because of Steelix's lack of recovery. The EV Spread lets Steelix hit a Lefties number, and tank 2 fire blasts from Tauros (rip normal spam), while the rest of the EVs go into Attack, and with an Adamant nature reliably 2HKO's Mega Audino. Next are the obvoius moves SR, EQ, and Heavy Slam. The last move is a filler, and up to you. Taunt shuts opposing walls down, Toxic is good to wear stuff down, and Roar can be used for phazing I guess.

 

[Silver Aurum]

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Atk / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Taunt / Roar

Hello I agree with your post for the most part but your EV spread could use a bit of optimization. The EV Spread you posted above is very similar to this one the only difference is that this one best optimizes its attack stat while discarding the useless SpD for handling Tauros
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see you gain a significant amount of attack EV's in place of the guaranteed chance to take 2 fire blasts but 0.4% chance is already incredibly reliable so the rest of the SpD seems somewhat excessive. If I missed some other reason for using your aforementioned EV Spread please let me know.

Edit: Okay so I have no idea how lefties numbers work so I'm just going to assume you were correct on that note n_n

 

[Evan.]

this metagame is p neat, and adding a pretty splashable offensive and defensive mon really helps from the teambuilding side of things and the best part is that both of the relevant drops (sceptile and lix) help out against stuff that was a pain to play against in the last meta (normal types, base 110 wallbreakers, musharna).

i've been talking about this with some people, and i think one of the main ways that the meta will adapt is that kangaskhan will become the normal type of choice over the next couple months. priority is probably gonna be a lot more useful than natural speed for a little while now that scept kinda rules over all the other fast mons, and there's no better mon to abuse priority than kanga. steelix dropping kinda sucks for it, but eq still does ~30-35 and its not nearly as prevalent as during MegaLix. i even find myself throwing AV on there a fair bit if I need like a 1 time pivot into special attackers in order to threaten them out, although usually the lower damage output isnt worth it.

also i've been seeing a ton of mantine recently, which makes sense when you think about it since its a nice answer to all forms of rott, as well as beating lix, combined with the recent decline in Lanturn usage that i've been seeing as well. Offensive sets seem like they'd have some fun value to them, although the normal defensive sets will probably still be your bread and butter.

another thing to watch out for is if bulky cores become popular again, core breakers like offensive megadino and evire will probably be pretty decent again. I haven't had a ton of experience with both in the new metagame, but it's just a bit of theorymon that came to mind that's logic seems sound enough. overall its been fun playing around in the newer meta, im interested to see how it adapts to sceptile because it smashes the past-meta builds but people will figure it out eventually. (also nobody use camerupt so i can keep spamming bulky rotom on the ladder D:)

 

[XenoTech N]

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Atk / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Taunt / Roar

Hello I agree with your post for the most part but your EV spread could use a bit of optimization. The EV Spread you posted above is very similar to this one the only difference is that this one best optimizes its attack stat while discarding the useless SpD for handling Tauros
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see you gain a significant amount of attack EV's in place of the guaranteed chance to take 2 fire blasts but 0.4% chance is already incredibly reliable so the rest of the SpD seems somewhat excessive. If I missed some other reason for using your aforementioned EV Spread please let me know.

Edit: Okay so I have no idea how lefties numbers work so I'm just going to assume you were correct on that note n_n

Yeah ok that's better, I guess the damage calcs were having an off day or something idk what the heck was up with that.

 

[Teddeh]

Sorry, did someone say that mantine was good? Well it's not like I was telling you all this for months...


you guys should listen to me more ;)

Also you guys should try out rotom-fan right now, excellent mon with great defensive and offensive capabilities. Also an effective lure for things like steelix and rhydon :3

 

[Disjunction]

hi guys, I have a fun set for Camerupt if any of you were sniffing around for something that can work for it.

Camerupt @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power

Specs is an effective wallbreaker right now because most teams rely on Lanturn, Rhydon, and Magmortar as their Fire resists. It also lures in less relevant stuff like Mantine (which, by the way, I don't think is as great in this meta as others are letting on) and whittles them down Ancient Power for a teammate. The Speed creep I've provided outspeeds base 50 mons, such as Piloswine, Vileplume, and Mawile, with 16 Speed EVs. You can also run super nascar camel with 224 Speed EV's to outspeed 0 Speed Lanturn, but most of them run Speed investment nowadays, so I'd typically run with the added bulk.

I never save replays, so I don't have much to show off the set with, but I wanted to put it out there for anyone interested. Honestly, this is probably Camerupt's best set right now because it's pretty outclassed as a defensive Stealth Rock setter, but I suppose I haven't tried out the defensive set yet.

credits metaphysical for providing the artwork

 

[Cased]

@ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Will-O-Wisp

If you're going to use Rotom-S, I'd use this set. Although odds are you're a moron for using Rhydon/Steelix to check Rotom-S after watching what it did in the MegaLix/Rupt meta, it's still an incredible set. You can use physically defensive in all honesty, Rocky Helmet with Pain Split if you want to but I think this set is just so good, balance struggles to effectively switch-in and there are a bunch of offensive pokemon who struggle to threaten this. You could run a different item in all honesty, even Rest > Wisp with Chesto as the item but please use Rotom-S, it's awesome.

 

[Oda]

Sorry, did someone say that mantine was good? Well it's not like I was telling you all this for months...


you guys should listen to me more ;)

Also you guys should try out rotom-fan right now, excellent mon with great defensive and offensive capabilities. Also an effective lure for things like steelix and rhydon :3

The fact that it deals with Steelix and Sceptile fairly well is probably the reason. What do you find is the most effective Defensive Mantine set? I've seen chesto rest and Toxic protect thrown around but havent used it enough to know. Scouting for electric coverage like Thunder Fang on lix as well as racking up toxic dmg and lefties recovery but does the instant recovery of Rest have its merits with having to loose Air slash like the other set ( assuming both sets are running defog)

 

[GyRro]

The fact that it deals with Steelix and Sceptile fairly well is probably the reason. What do you find is the most effective Defensive Mantine set? I've seen chesto rest and Toxic protect thrown around but havent used it enough to know. Scouting for electric coverage like Thunder Fang on lix as well as racking up toxic dmg and lefties recovery but does the instant recovery of Rest have its merits with having to loose Air slash like the other set ( assuming both sets are running defog)

I haven't ever seen anyone use resto chesto mantine, but it does sound like a neat idea. The only problem with this is it become set up bait for pokemon like Musharna if you use it in place of toxic. I also think air slash is quite vital with the way the meta is at the moment. Unless you're running another solid fighing check like Gourgeist, because scald can sometimes lack enough damage, it makes you rely on the burn chance a little. for example-

0 SpA Mantine Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 170-204 (58.2 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mantine Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sawk: 91-108 (31.1 - 36.9%) -- 72.1% chance to 3HKO

It also allows you to 2OHKO Sceptile when compared with the pitiful damage you would do with scald. With Sceptile being used so much at the moment, it can really help. (be wary of physical sets with rock slide though because I have seen these being discussed in NU chat a bit, not sure how much they're being used though).

0 SpA Mantine Air Slash vs. 32 HP / 0- SpD Sceptile: 170-204 (58.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mantine Scald vs. 32 HP / 0- SpD Sceptile: 46-54 (15.9 - 18.6%) -- possible 6HKO

As you can see, air slash allows for the guarenteed 2OHKO on Sawk. This means you don't have to baby Mantine as much throughout the match to keep it at decent health. I don't think that it should be your primary defensive wall anyway, since it can be OHKO'd by Sawk if it carries stone edge (252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 228 Def Mantine: 352-416 (105.7 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO) but it can definitely help in that area. Mantine with defensive investment is definitely the way to go though since it's SpD is already huge. I find the Smogon set to work fine-

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 16 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Scald
- Air Slash
- Toxic

You also have to consider how optimal it is to use Mantine over Pelipper. Pelipper has a lot of things Mantine doesn't- stronger flying stab (hurricane), reliable recovery (roost), and the ability to gain momentum (u-turn). If you are using Mantine predominantly for Physical defensive purposes I would suggest that Pelipper would be better in that role. Mantine's slightly extra HP (base 65 vs base 60) can come in handy alongside it's extra spD bulk though.

 

[Teddeh]

Mantine only really needs to edit its speed and 4th move slot, it depends on how much speed creep you want to creep for certian threats like max speed rhydon whether it be jolly or adamant, or if you want to push the boundaries and creep for max speed mawile so you're hitting speed numbers such as 180, 197 and 200. The rest needs to go only in hp and defense whichever your team needs in all honesty. As far as a moveset goes, scald is mandatory with dual stab like air slash necessary for things like vileplume, tangela, gourgeist. defog is obviously one of the main reasons to use mantine, so have that there for hazard control and then the last move is optional for what your team needs. I have ran a variety of moves from signal beam, toxic, protect, ice beam and even tailwind.

I choose to run mantine over pelipper for the extra pokemon it checks and the fact it has water absorb, which makes it more useful than pelipper's roost in my opinion. I need the extra water checks, e.g things like special samurott, ludicolo, sd rott even and it stops things like prinplup, poliwrath and general water types in this tier clicking scald mindlessly, because pelipper can always get burned. Obviously in my mind, it adds more to a team. But then I'm not using mantine as a fighting check which pelipper can do, it's more a special check which physical bulk as a back up to check things like kanga and sawk if my fighting check is weakened.

Overall it depends on your team what your mantine would need and whether it would be for a tour or ladder.

 

[ryan]

Glalie is a pretty cool Spiker. It's our only Taunt Spiker (Accelgor kinda counted back in the day because it had Encore), and with Explosion and Freeze-Dry, it can deal some major damage to a large portion of the tier before it goes out. Freeze-Dry is especially cool because it hits Xatu, Mantine, and Pelipper for tons of damage. Ice Shard is probably good too, but I like Freeze-Dry/Spikes/Taunt/Explosion too much to run it. I'm really not sure why we didn't use it at all last gen before/after the Scolipede era because it's really cool. Watch out for Rhydon and Klinklang which can both kill it through Sash and you're good.

 

[Evan.]

glalie looks neat, im gonna have to try it soon.

anyways, one mon that i've been having a blast using for the past couple of days has been larvesta. even though it sounds like a complete meme and waste of space, it's unique typing is actually really handy in this meta for beating a lot of the best mons in the meta. you just straight beat special sceptiles (which amount to ~80% of tiles if i had to guess, also rock slide special doesn't exist @_@) as well as checking fighting types and some other weaker physical attackers (also flame body is amazing). it also forms a really neat core w/ lanturn since obviously their typings mesh well together, and lanturn also provides heal bell support, a 100% switch into mantine, and it forms a nice slow volt-turn core to get in frailer threats. obviously it needs a lot of support to make work b/c of the whole 4x weakness to rocks thing, but with the right support it's a really fun mon to use.

also i know Teddeh and soulgazer (and apparently Raseri but he's a butt who forced me to edit him in) have been preaching about this mon, but sliggoo is a really great mon on bulkier builds right now because of its ability to pretty much counter Sceptile and handle pretty much any special attacking threat that comes its way. i think that some people (i forget who) have been using special w/ coverage moves like t-bolt, muddy water, and ice beam to break down a lot of defensive cores, but from what i've been hearing a mono attacking curse set w/ outrage seems to be quite good right now. Even though it may appear subpar due to the fact that most teams are packing a steelix, if you can remove its leftovers, you set up on it pretty much for free (barring hax ofc). just really anti-meta right now, which is just what the tier needs imo.

continuing from that last point, i think it's cool that people are discovering more and more anti-meta stuff that beats common builds because that's a really good sign of a meta that's adapting to new threats. who knows, we might start seeing sliggoo pop up more and more and become a staple on balance, similar to the way that hariyama was back in XY? i'm not saying its going to happen, but i think that anything's possible with the way that the meta is trending towards fatter builds because of scept and lix. Not to mention that with SPL on the horizon, we can expect much more rapid metagame growth, since a lot of metagames tend to develop much quicker over major tournaments, than over months on the ladder. either way im definitely enjoying this metagame so far and am looking forward to what the coming months have in store for us regarding potential metagame development.

 

[Punchshroom]

What I am really sad about is that Dragonair fails to rise to the occasion like Sliggoo has; DD + Heal Bell + Roost Altaria pretty much dashes Dragonair's hopes of remaining relevant in the meta ;_;

A rising threat I see in the meta is Articuno, which is yet another Sceptile check (though Can-Eh-Dian, I must warn you that Rock Slide special Sceptile does exist D:). Of course, what makes Cuno stand out from other Sceptile checks is that it yields considerable offensive presence; LO Freeze-Dry + Hurricane already cracks open most defensive cores in the meta. Articuno also appreciates the decline in both Klinklang and Mawile, otherwise annoying thorns in its side, meaning it can afford to drop anti-Steel coverage for the most part. For the last attacking slot, I'm taking a liking to Frost Breath Articuno which, combined with its high special bulk + Roost, makes for one of the better anti-Calm Mind mons in the tier, 3HKOing both Musharna and Mega Audino a large majority of the time.

 

[Silver Aurum]

Barbaracle @ White Herb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Return
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge

This thing is such a huge threat right now despite Sceptile's prevalence. Barbaracle can absolutely smash through the bulky balance cores that have seemed to be growing in popularity recently. The set posted above is mainly what I have been using as it allows you to break bulky grasses and waters with Stone Edge as well as having a more reliable STAB in the form of Razor Shell and Return provides nice neutral coverage to pick off things without having to risk a miss. Barbaracle's decent defensive stats actually provides it with a decent amount of set up opportunities versus things like Tauros, Kangaskhan, Scyther, Swellow bulkier variants of Skuntank, physical Samurott, hell you can even set up on choice locked Sawks if they haven't clicked CC. It's hard to revenge this thing with priority as well because of its respectable 115 defense stat. Basically if you can put yourself into a position where you can set up with Barbaracle it can win games by itself.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I've been playing the tier a bit, but Guts Swellow is so much better than Specs Swellow right now in my opinion. The ability to naturally revenge-kill Sceptile without a Scarfer makes it a valuable team member. Furthermore, it still wrecks Offense play styles pretty hard with either Brave Bird or Facade. Steelix and Rhydon's continued prevalence in Balanced and Defensive playstyles still complicates things a bit, but overall I think Guts Swellow is a solid investment in this meta, even with the predicted rise in priority move usage in this meta.

 

[shiloh]

Everything you mentioned Specs Swellow does better, it still dismantles offense with Boomburst and can actually revenge the common Substitute Sceptile, which Guts Swellow cannot. You mention Rhydon and Steelix as things Physical Swellow can't beat, but Special Swellow has a much easier time against them. This is because Heat Wave does over 50 to Steelix and HP Grass also 2HKOs Rhydon. Specs Swellow is still the superior set in this meta, as its speed tier + spammable STAB w/ Scrappy makes it very tough to deal with.

 

[ryan]

Specs Boomburst also 3HKOs offensive Rhydon and has a decent shot at 3HKOing 252/0 Rhydon with rocks, which means it can only switch in once. It's also just generally nicer to have a Pokemon that isn't both weak to Stealth Rock and gets worn down by Toxic when you're playing against bulkier teams that have fewer issues forcing Swellow out.

 

[tehy]

252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Sceptile: 243-286 (86.4 - 101.7%)

this might be what he was talking about?

 

[Froggyboy]

Well with hazards being pretty easy to get up, and Sceptile usually carrying Life Orb or Substitute, it's pretty much permitted that Sceptile is going to be under 100% when Swellow comes in. Plus, if you are seriously worried about not being able to revenge 100% Sceptile, Brawlfest's Mixed Swellow set from a while back works here, OHKOing Sceptile with Brave Bird while still having that strong Boomburst and coverage.
4 Atk Life Orb Swellow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 416-494 (148 - 175.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Evan.]

im really not a fan of mixed swellow since i feel like one biggest benefits of specs swellow > guts (outside of having an easier time beating rocks / steels) is that you aren't whittled down just for staying in. by running LO you're effectively wearing yourself down, while at the same time lowering your power output, and not really beating anything specific w/ brave bird outside of yama (which is almost 3HKO'd anyways iirc). i feel like if you want to run special, you either go specs or go home, especially since you can also act as a sleep absorber against stuff like lilligant, vivillon, jynx if you're brave enough, GRASSWHISTLE SCEPTILE, etc since the only moves you really need are boomburst, u-turn, and heat wave to an extent.

e: you dont 1v1 +1 lilligants or vivillons anyways because they just kill you cause they're faster .-.

 

[Froggyboy]

idk I feel mixed is pretty good in 1v1 situations, like being able to +1 Vivillons and Lilligants for example provided something else is asleep(or they miss rofl), as well as Combusken and Hariyama, but I get what you are saying.

 

[Kiyo]

Mambo has had a lot of success with mixed swellow so maybe he can weigh in? I recommended silk scarf to him over life orb and im pretty sure he had as mcuh success as LO

 

[Ren-chon]

Samurott @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Aqua Jet

You guys make me feel sick for not mentioning this godly set. HP Electric is so fucking good on this that I can't even stress enough. While it doesn't solve two main problems about special rott named Hariyama and Speed, it does solve one that's rising in usage nowadays: Mantine and Pelipper. I swear god the feeling I get when HP Electricing a Mantine on a switch is the closest I'll ever get to an orgasm when playing 'mons. You just need to hit it once and Mantine will stop being a check to your special hitters, mainly Pyroar, and even to Samurott himself. This slight twist alone makes Samurott the best way to break down the popular Lix + Mantine core, as well as luring in other usual checks like Poliwrath. This comes to the cost of being unable to deal significant damage to Lanturn, Malamar and Loldicolo, but who cares when you're already dumping half the tier. Also, +Spe so you can outspeed AV Magmortar if one decides to stay in for whatever reason!

Calcs

Idk the standard spread for Mantine so just imagine there's a impressive calc about it doing 60~70 (SDef) and 70~80 (Phys Def) that immediatly convinces you to try it out!

The same applies to Pelipper but imagine it's an OHKO instead

Sorry for the poor post but really, it kills things. What else is there to write about?