np: BW Ubers Suspect Testing Round 1 - Mama Said Knock You Out UPDATE POST #95

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

admittedly when giving my definition of what is enjoyable was subjective and irrelevant, but that was because i was largely tired of having to repeat my points to locoghoul.

okay let's see, giratina-o with substitute is already a viable set, but substitutes are broken by earthquake on all but the most physically defensive of sets, on which it is questionable to run substitute in the first place, considering they are optimal with resttalk. resttalk + substitute? i don't think so.

moreover, stall involves a LOT of switching, and each switch can still risk the potential 30% risk of being KOed, and 51% if they're slower, even if they want to get a substitute up.

there are several stall pokemon that can effectively run substitute of course, such as lugia and tentacruel. but it seems the crux of your argument is centered around the one practical example of giratina-o with substitute negating the threat of fissure drill almost entirely, failling to see that its moveset will either be ridiculous and ineffective, or have its substitute broken by earthquake anyway!

moreover, the mention of cosmic power ghostceus pretty much invalidates your entire post.

 

[shrang]

Kyogre used Sheer Cold!
The foe's Ferrothorn lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Ferrothorn fainted!

I've done this too many times already. It is so cheap.

 

[syrim]

Imo, Stall is one of the best playstyles. Threats like cosmic power ghostceus take ubers like storm. We have incredible hazards setters and spin blockers which do so much for teams that HO finds itself in a lot of trouble usually. The thing about the metagame is that it ADAPTS. When scarfsect was released, things got shaken up. Same with new items and other similar pokemon. Stall will not die if OHKO moves are released. However, players that like to regurgitate the same stuff that got them by in the past will barely see the fissure excadrill take out their vegetating GiratinaO through the watery film covering their eyes as they moan about the death of stall. Just use a substitute. It really is that simple. Put yourself in a position where you don't have to make insane predictions all the time. If you are, then you're doing it wrong. I think that stall benefits more from OHKO moves than hyper offense. Stall can actually put these moves to use as stall has the opportunity to. We really could use more substitutes in Ubers.

Guys, Stall is only going to get stronger. It will be DIFFERENT, but it will be stall. Giving artists with crayons really nice paintbrushes definitely means that there won't be much reason to draw with crayons anymore. But that doesn't mean that adding painbrushes ends all art. It's going to be different, and much better. More options, more moves, more diversity. Stop being so afraid of change.

I've used OHKO, I've dealt with OHKO, and I've used stall teams with more success than any other teams. I didn't get the ranking in time, but my vote is definitely going to add OHKO moves. Whining about an undesirable meta is completely bogus. Votes for this reason aren't really votes at all imo. OHKO is not broken, and shouldn't be banned. Ubers isn't as stale as OU, but OHKO moves add a nice twist.



Locoghul merely points out that this is POPPY's definition. Not Smogon's, but POPPY'S. The fact that you happen to agree with it doesn't mean that it is "aligned with Smogon's spirit of a competitive game than yours." Someone could easily argue that Stall is a terribly mundane playstyle that goes against the spirit of competitive battling VERY EASILY. I'd like to see the large scale study you did on smogon to find that "most of us" prefer hazards and phazing wars over hyper offense battles, if you can consider that "diversity". I think that many dislike the stall playstyle, and would like to see more diversity in high stakes hyper offense battles than the same boring sleep talk roar/dtail giratina. (Voting because you want/don't want stall to die is silly because Stall will remain regardless.)



I respectfully disagree. Scald and Thunder aren't moves that ONLY burn or paralyze with 30% chance, but have obscene BP with STAB, and usually are used in the rain. They're used to DAMAGE more than spread status for the most part.

In cases where they aren't,

I see no difference between a scarfogre trying to burn SD rayquaza and save the game or one using Sheer Cold instead. Same luck involved.

This post doesn't really contain much practical expirience. For instance, the only stall pokemon that can viably run substitute (a tiny group since every moveslot is absolutely crucial to this playstyle) either let excadrill spin (eg everything bar ghost type stall pokemon) or perform terribly against every other spinner/entry hazard (sub gira-a/ghostceus). Sub Gira-o is already a very common set, and already can only switch into gira-o's eq once if SR is has been down.

You claim that stall players should attempt to put themselves in a place where they do not have to predict. In reality, OHKO moves put stall teams in a place where no prediction is possible. For instance, if you ran a stall team capable of beating common threats, you will give excadrill or kyogre multiple chances to switch in. To isolate excadrill in particular, do you switch to your spin blocker and risk a huge chance of getting OHKOd if you are gira-a/ghostceus, and a 51% if you are gira-o? Gira-a can't even make exca pay for the risk by ruining its spinning potential with WoW, as fissure isn't really worried about attack drops. Do you switch to something offensive, that can take a predicted EQ and force it out without spinning? This switch now has the same chance to die to fissure, and to preempt a likely response the only common stall pokemon that is immune to ground is lugia.

Point in case stall cannot adapt to OHKO because of their inability to be predicted around. You CANNOT put yourself in a situation where you are not threatened by them if you use pokemon that are actually capable of walling the metagame. Sub isn't usually the best use of a stall pokemon's turn, either.

 

[faint]

I actually think OHKO moves are broken. We're talking about a 30% chance to OHKO here. No, not a Scald burn or Thunder paralysis, which doesn't spell immediate doom. Immediate OHKO. An instant-kill on one crucial mon or two is just game-changing. We have no place for OHKO in a healthy metagame.

I respectfully disagree. Scald and Thunder aren't moves that ONLY burn or paralyze with 30% chance, but have obscene BP with STAB, and usually are used in the rain. They're used to DAMAGE more than spread status for the most part.

In cases where they aren't,

I see no difference between a scarfogre trying to burn SD rayquaza and save the game or one using Sheer Cold instead. Same luck involved.

I don't understand what you're saying. Pocket never claimed scald or thunder are only used for their secondary effects. He's saying a burn or a paralysis are not the same as a guaranteed OHKO. Yes it may cripple the mon, but you are not instantly DOWN a mon. Also scarfogre's don't use scald, and yes we are aware thunder is used in the rain. But more importantly,

moreover, the mention of cosmic power ghostceus pretty much invalidates your entire post.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I don't mean to be rude but is this dead? :/

 

[Aqualouis]

Poppy told me that we were waiting for Bojangles to post the identification topic, but he also told me that he was busy actually.
So i guess that we have to wait !

 

[alamaster]

maybe GS is marking those exams first...(if anyone actually did it)