Proposal Normalising Bo5 In Later Stages Of Tournaments

Scottie

formerly Osh
is a Tiering Contributoris a Two-Time Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
I would like to propose the idea of normalising the bo5 format for later stages of tournaments such as OST, slam opens, classic cups, official circuit tours and circuit playoffs etc.

I think standardising bo5 for finals or for top 8 of 'important' tournaments would be both beneficial for the players involved and spectators alike. For starters, I feel as though the Bo5 format would likely seek out deserved winners 9 times out of 10 as it would reduce the chances of being eliminated via hax or team matchup. Obviously Pokémon in general is a game significantally influenced by what is out of your control, so when you can minimize these factors by simply playing more games I would definitely deem it worthy. When you look at tournaments such as slam or classic, objectively speaking the winners of those tournaments have been won by some of the most quality players, Classic in particular being won by Soulwind, ABR, Mcmeghan to name a few, its very rewarding to see the best players of that current time come out with the win in the end, largely due to the safety net that the Bo5 format provides, in an unideal world where classic was Bo3, its hard to assume that those results would mirror, largely speculative but I find it safe to assume. Bo5 structurally allows the player to be both creative in the builder while also allowing leniency with more solid builds, its leeway that bo3 fails to give. I find Its extremely frustrating to be restricted to first to 2 in important sets late on in tournaments.

Unrelated to pkmn but when I'm watching tournaments outside of mons, maybe its the FGC, the formatting for top 8 is almost always bo5, while earlier 'fodder rounds' are short first to 2s, point being later stages of tournaments no matter what scene you play in is usually decided by a grindy first to 3, its a common denominator to decide winners. I feel as though the same should apply for majority of smogon officials, obviously every tournament is case by case and simply can't afford to resort to a bo5 format i.e smogon tour but for most tournaments I believe it should be applied.

A common argument against it would be time issues, and the possibility of both players simply not having enough teams to recycle, but with the format only being applied to the late stages of tournaments you would assume both parties involved would go to such lengths to make sure time or team management is not an issue.

Additionally I belive all ribbon circuit tournaments should have bo5 as the standard throughout all rounds, as its annoying to grind out a whole years worth of results, only to lose in 20-30 minutes, if I'm gonna lose from a years worth of results I'd rather it be at least an hour and have some fun with it!

This is something I've been thinking about for a while now (not because I lost lc open final again) and I genuinely feel like it would be a healthy change for the scene, so long as its applied to the right tournaments.
 

Camden

Hey, it's me!
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So I like this idea in theory but I can't see people wanting to build and test 5 teams for every round of top cut. Players are used to Bo3 and asking them to ramp up their prep by 66% is pretty wild. Recycling is feasible but it also runs the risk of you getting taken advantage of, so of course you're going to build and then lose motivation in the process. I could see it working in 1-on-1 Finals but beyond that it's too much I think. The reason why it works in fighting games is because most people have their one character, maybe two, that they play the entire tournament. That logic doesn't carry over.

Also the inevitable recycling of teams in Bo5 would inflate stats which would annoy me, even if that likely wouldn't matter to most people.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
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I appreciate the concept here, but disagree with it in practice.

Preparation is already a massive strain and time commitment in official tournaments (perhaps deep in circuits for some, too). This will require almost twice as much. And no, people will not prepare less just because there are more games -- this argument has never actually held up.

The OP states things like "the Bo5 format would likely seek out deserved winners 9 times out of 10", but Pokemon is still Pokemon. The game is inherently subject to RNG no matter if it is 1, 3, 5, or more games. It also states things like " Bo5 structurally allows the player to be both creative in the builder while also allowing leniency with more solid builds, its leeway that bo3 fails to give." which is purely in the eye of the beholder as you can take whatever risks you want and use whatever solid builds you want in any context, which many people do as is.

Yes, a larger sample means that the better player may win more, but it is still arbitrary, it is not something you can suddenly say solves all of your problems, and we are simply trading off an increase in sample size for a larger amount of time being needed for both prep and play. I do not find the status quo to be a problem and I do not find the extra time this would mandate to be suitable.
 

Clone

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When I made top 16 in OST back in 2016 I absolutely hated the bo5. Prepping 5 different teams while simultaneously trying not to reuse and have a decent matchup against your opponent was miserable.

Bo3 is more than enough. You can focus more on the teams you want to bring and you have 3 chances not to get lucked

I'm sure most people share this sentiment. Sometimes less is more
 

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