Except you forgot that the damage calculator (both in and out of battle) is inaccurate, shoddy prevents you from using teams with more than 510 EVs as well (although it'll let you save them, admittedly), and the "cleaner interface" comes at a price (multiple windows used for things likes EVs, for example) and this seems more like a personal opinion than an actual advantage or fact. Also, I'm not sure if shoddy has this, but NetBattle also has Challenge Cup (I admit I have no idea what this is, which is why I'm not sure whether shoddy has it or not).
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Netbattle just got DPgraded!
- Thread starter meteor64
- Start date
- Status
Challenge Cup is Random Battle
Challenge Cup is where you get 6 random pokemon with random moves and items. Their levels is determined by level balance (ie, weak pokemon like rattata will be a higher level than stronger pokemon like Mewtwo)
Edit: Dammit, beaten.
Ah, ok, thanks for the explanation.Tay26 said:
So that my post isn't completely useless, I'll post a (hopefully) objective list of the pros and cons for each of the two programs. Note that I haven't actually used NetBattle myself, so I'm going from what's been posted in this thread so far (which I have read in its entirety).
NETBATTLE
+ Double Battle functionality; probably the biggest difference from shoddy
+ Complete in-battle logs, and auto-save feature for battle logs
+ Ignore function
+ Team builder lets you find Pokemon and moves by typing the names in
+ A lot less laggy/smoother performance for many users
- Currently plagued by several in-battle glitches and faulty game mechanics, including an inaccurate damage calculator
- Not open source; this makes it much more difficult to edit.
- No Find or Ladder tabs
SHODDY
+ Open source, allowing users to create customized clients and servers MUCH more easily than others
+ Laddering functionality (although I read this was custom-made for the Smogon and CAP servers; is this true?)
+ Very few in-battle glitches or incorrect game mechanics (including Legendary IVs)
+ Updated with Platinum game mechanics and movesets
+ Can be used on any operating system without additional support
- Somewhat laggy at times
- Lack of Double Battles
- No built-in damage calculator
I have to leave now, so I'll add a few more things when I come back.
Wow, the back and forth arguing between sides is ridiculous. As much as I hate Shoddy's interface (open source means shit to me since I'm not interested in learning how to change its code or host my own server), I seriously doubt the DPP NB will be the "preferred" simulator unless it fixes all of its problems and establishes itself as the better choice across the board. Even then, I'm sure a lot of people will just stick to Shoddy out of habit. It'll be interesting if the "marketshare" approaches 50/50 though...especially if we get two different metagames out of it (assuming the rulesets differ and whatnot).
I didn't use Shoddybattle until it had an acceptably low level of bugs, so don't try to call me out on hypocrisy.
As the policy setters of the largest server, yes, we did (we as in he, I, and other people, not "we" as in Smogon). But that is strictly because we controlled the largest server. When the Smogon server was launched, people migrated over there, and then "we" (as in Smogon) set policy for that server. There is no "structural" policy built into the program, however. There is a much lower barrier-for-entry in setting up a server than in creating a new program / writing scripts in NBScript (or whatever language you use to script in NB).
I know you weren't directly responding to me with this point, however, all you had to base this on is his statement that he believes Shoddy is superior to NB. I have used both programs (I started out on Netbattle before I even joined Smogon... you can check my join date here if you want some idea of how long I used NB if that's important to you), and I agree. My two main reasons are: Shoddy is open-source and is more accurate to game mechanics. Yes, NB does have some parts that are superior to NB, but I don't think you can dismiss someone automatically just because they believe one program is superior to another.
If this is your attitude, why have a Pokemon simulator at all?
The point of a Pokemon simulator is to accurately simulate battles. It is impossible to legally acquire such an unbreedable, and as such, the Pokemon should not be allowed.
I'm pretty sure I did. That was one of the first things I brought up whenever anyone mentioned programming a new simulator.
That's what's known as "security through obscurity". The idea is that you try and prevent attacks by keeping people from knowing how the program works. A truly secure program should not be vulnerable even when people know how it works exactly. The Shoddy code has been "leaked" to anyone who wants to look at it.
The point is that with a closed-source program, there is no way for us to know this.
lol how can you possibly say this? I would be willing to wager you any amount of money that this is false. If this is true, then there would be no security risk in releasing the source code, for example.
Seriously, how can you say that even the things we don't know about are fixed? By the very definition of an unknown exploit, it's not fixed. If it were fixed, we'd know about it and it wouldn't be unknown. You can never state that a program is completely invulnerable to exploits (I go into this in more detail in the NetBattle .9.7 thread).
It is impossible to block a DDoS attack in this case. You can protect against simple attacks, or you can have more bandwidth than they do, but you cannot block a DDoS attack while still remaining open to legitimate traffic (if you have to refuse all incoming connections to stop the attack, then they have succeeding in denying service to people, which is what DoS stands for: Denial of Service).
But many of us are programmers. People create modded servers, or just maintain the main branch of the code. If Shoddy were closed-source, what Doug has done to improve Smogon University would have been impossible, so yes, it does matter. Well-written code tends to be well-maintained code. Poorly-written code tends to be poorly-maintained. It also leads to more security vulnerabilities as things are more likely to be overlooked.
The "nobody cares" defense is not a defense at all. The fact that people are talking about it would suggest that some people, at least, do care.
You can change as much as want, limited only by your knowledge of Java. That's the whole point of "free and open source software".
False. I played NB and I prefer Shoddy. I most definitely did play ADV competitively.
My biggest complaint with Shoddy is probably that I don't like Java.
Smogon and Official Server have illegal move combinations coded in.
I'd prefer no calculator built in to an inaccurate calculator built in because it doesn't give false information, but rather, forces people to find another calculator (hopefully an accurate one).
The fact that they are complaining now would suggest that it's a feature people want.
I question the morality of SID banning. What an SID ban requires is installing a unique identifier in the user's machine without their knowledge or consent. It also takes less time to run an SID changer than it does to change IP. Alternately, a smart user could run a program like Sandboxie to basically completely bypass the SID.
You seem to think that people on NB would automatically join a modified server? No matter what program you're using, you have to "hope people join your server" to get people to see your modifications.
I can see chaos just posting in the middle of a heated Shoddy / NB argument "oh btw competitor beta 1 is out".
A lot of the arguments have been centered around missing features on both sides. While NB just goes "no one wanted them for years anyway lol", with Shoddy you can write whatever feature you want into the project rather than argue about the triviality of them.
A lot of the arguments have been centered around missing features on both sides. While NB just goes "no one wanted them for years anyway lol", with Shoddy you can write whatever feature you want into the project rather than argue about the triviality of them.
personally i'll use both..
Shoddy for DP 1v1
NB for everything else constering its the only sim of the previous 3 gens currently active that i know of since the demise of all IRC battle bots except for DP-bot (that i still use for fun sharkbattles something i wish both shoddy and NB would have)
Shoddy for DP 1v1
NB for everything else constering its the only sim of the previous 3 gens currently active that i know of since the demise of all IRC battle bots except for DP-bot (that i still use for fun sharkbattles something i wish both shoddy and NB would have)
One of the main advantages of NBS seems to be doubles (the other things seem to be down to preference, like interface or Shoddy is better, like ladder and less bugs). I know that Numbuh214 was working on them (I think still is), that PT8Sceptile got them working (with bugs, but hey), but then left and did not pass on the code.
There is a topic with a lot of info here.
But yea, the main point is that if Shoddy does get Doubles I think most players will definitely stay with it. Until then its going to be a split between those who want doubles or prefer the interface of NB and those who want a ladder, easier use for non Windows users, less bugs (until NBS can get it to roughly the same level as Shoddy), more customizability, CaP and a few other things.
for all people dissing nb for find tab, people can code in their servers a list of all users willing to play.its easy. join it by typing /play. view list by typing /battleusers or something. chall those ppl only. can be even separated into tiers.
I've just done a Spyware Terminator+ClamAV scan on NBSInstall.exe after seeing that when I've even just right clicked on the file, Spyware Terminator has instantly given me a "NBSInstall.exe has tried activating itself and has been blocked" message or something similar. And I got these results returned after doing a scan:
Threat Files
<Dropper-6897> [Bayleef00] : NBSInstall.exe
<Trojan.Dropper-6897> [Bayleef00] : NBSInstall.exe
Removed them, which resulted in the whole file getting removed.
I'd like to get confirmation on whether it is actually a Trojan or what is it if not? Other people didn't seem to find anything by doing scans with malwarebytes for example.
Threat Files
<Dropper-6897> [Bayleef00] : NBSInstall.exe
<Trojan.Dropper-6897> [Bayleef00] : NBSInstall.exe
Removed them, which resulted in the whole file getting removed.
I'd like to get confirmation on whether it is actually a Trojan or what is it if not? Other people didn't seem to find anything by doing scans with malwarebytes for example.
Way to try and redirect accusations. Like getting picked on for failing a test and trying to throw back that they only got a C or something.
Anyways, never played Netbattle, doubt I download before April. Maybe there will be more developements by then, but all it really has over Shoddy is Doubles (from my understanding). I will be sure to give it a shot for the sake of firsthand experience.
I am not going to argue any points you have made as I believe the decision is personal opinion.
However, I will stick with Shoddy until Netbattle has the negligible amount of bugs like Shoddy does. Even then, Netbattle is going to need a ladder for it to compete in my eyes, and double battles really aren't "fun" enough for me to switch over.
Maybe I am just incompetent with computers, but it does seem like reporting bugs are rather difficult on Shoddy Battle. However, I have only encountered one bug the entire time I have played Shoddy, so this is really a non-issue IMO.
However, I will stick with Shoddy until Netbattle has the negligible amount of bugs like Shoddy does. Even then, Netbattle is going to need a ladder for it to compete in my eyes, and double battles really aren't "fun" enough for me to switch over.
Maybe I am just incompetent with computers, but it does seem like reporting bugs are rather difficult on Shoddy Battle. However, I have only encountered one bug the entire time I have played Shoddy, so this is really a non-issue IMO.
I don't think you have a right to dislike Java but appreciate anything Netbattle has ever touched. It's always been horrid bastardizations of VB6 and .NET crap. I'm surprised it runs at all; the current one has so many memory leaks I need two cores and a gig of RAM to keep it up for an hour.
netbattle uses a harmless rootkit for assigning people SIDs this might be what is causing this to squeal (falsely) foul play
I've a question about both Shoddy/Netbattle.
Is there a way to make it so that when you're browsing your computer to load a team, it doesn't automatically go to My Documents? My teams aren't stored there, and it always takes a bit for me to get to my team files. This gets particularly annoying on Shoddy, since you have to search for the file every time you want to go to team builder and every time you make changes to a team, while Netbattle only prompts you when you're switching teams.
Is there a way to make it so that when you're browsing your computer to load a team, it doesn't automatically go to My Documents? My teams aren't stored there, and it always takes a bit for me to get to my team files. This gets particularly annoying on Shoddy, since you have to search for the file every time you want to go to team builder and every time you make changes to a team, while Netbattle only prompts you when you're switching teams.
tape
i woke up in a new bugatti
Ok guys, my two friends and I made the Platinum DB, all of it, and we're posting it here and in Pmnb.com or whatever (Giving it to Bayleef soon, too)
[old link]
Credits go to Tsurio (me), George Acosta, and Magic.
Edit: real and complete DB at start of page 8.
[old link]
Credits go to Tsurio (me), George Acosta, and Magic.
Edit: real and complete DB at start of page 8.
Honestly i never really liked shoddy. I found the interface poor, and it always seemed to lag way more then it should. The no scrolling in main chat annoyed me, the not being able to see a full turn on the battle window, and most of all the team builder.
However i don't think those are the reasons one should want to use netbattle over shoddy. I personally believe that netbattle is better and should be used because its a place where you can go and battle with ALL the generations. Remember those old RBY CC tournaments? I still think rse is the best generation and i'd love to battle people in that generation more frequently. To me the advantage of having more battling metagame options makes netbattle far superior to shoddy. All the stuff in my first paragraph i am willing to deal with, but just one battle style on shoddy kinda bores me quickly. I believe that the competitive pokemon will build better on netbattle rather then shoddy due to the options of playing in different metagames. To all of you who have never played the rse generation, or havent played it in a very long time, try it out, its very balanced and fun.
On a side note, this might of been fixed from the last time i played shoddy, but in the "random battle/challenge cup" on shoddy you could get pokemon that didnt even have a single attack move, often making them completely useless. On netbattle getting an attack move is in the code, and guaranteed that your poke will at least get tackle or some other random attack. If this has been fixed then i take back this last paragraph.
However i don't think those are the reasons one should want to use netbattle over shoddy. I personally believe that netbattle is better and should be used because its a place where you can go and battle with ALL the generations. Remember those old RBY CC tournaments? I still think rse is the best generation and i'd love to battle people in that generation more frequently. To me the advantage of having more battling metagame options makes netbattle far superior to shoddy. All the stuff in my first paragraph i am willing to deal with, but just one battle style on shoddy kinda bores me quickly. I believe that the competitive pokemon will build better on netbattle rather then shoddy due to the options of playing in different metagames. To all of you who have never played the rse generation, or havent played it in a very long time, try it out, its very balanced and fun.
On a side note, this might of been fixed from the last time i played shoddy, but in the "random battle/challenge cup" on shoddy you could get pokemon that didnt even have a single attack move, often making them completely useless. On netbattle getting an attack move is in the code, and guaranteed that your poke will at least get tackle or some other random attack. If this has been fixed then i take back this last paragraph.
you missed off quite alot of pokemon, like salamence, latios, jirachi and more i think =/
- Status