Resource National Dex Viability Rankings v2

What happened to galarian zapdos? I don't see it in the vr.
while i defo dont agree to it being unranked, regular zap, which is its best counter, has seen an explosion in popularity. it also has to compete with lucha for a spot on the HO teams its mostly seen on and lucha most often wins. as a defiant user, it also faces competition from bisharp, who can trigger defiant off webs, which zap cant.
 
while i defo dont agree to it being unranked, regular zap, which is its best counter, has seen an explosion in popularity. it also has to compete with lucha for a spot on the HO teams its mostly seen on and lucha most often wins. as a defiant user, it also faces competition from bisharp, who can trigger defiant off webs, which zap cant.
bruh, i thought it was a bug/mistake but it actually got unranked.
 

R8

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:sm/alomomola:

C -> UR

Who is genuinely using this mon? Alo had a brief moment in the spotlight due to one stall team (may have been a sample) that's hella outdated now. There is really no point including this on the VR and giving people the impression that you will actually ever see one of these on ladder or in tours. Imo this is about the same as something like Pyukumuku with its role being a super niche pick for one specific team structure. It may be usable but I don't think it's worth ranking.
Alomomola still possess a distinct niche , that not only makes it usable but also worth using on certain specific stalls. Even though it directly competes with Toxapex as a bulky water type, it can fit on Chansey+Mega-Sableye(+Unaware Clefable) stall teams, especially since Chansey itself covers some Pokemon checked by Toxapex that Alomomola can't check defensively, like Volcarona or Charizard-Y, making it easier to justify. Alomomola trades Toxapex's moveslots freedom and ability to absorb and set tspikes with ground and psychic neutralities alongside access to wishtect, which allows some very valuable in-game flexibility for its team. Thanks to Regenerator, Alomomola can even be played a bit recklessly in certain rough MUs since it can always regen off the damages later. This in game flexibility is an interesting aspect of Alomomola : even though it sometimes feel like it doesn't check as much things as it wants to in the builder, it can however give the room for good midgrounds or even outplays. Regenerator also mitigate the passivness of Wish, making Alomomola less dependent on that 2turn recovery, and giving it free turns in lot of scenarios.

More generally, to understand how Alomomola carves a niche, it is important to realize that its utility is not only about checking threats - it wouldn't really be worth using if that was the case - but also on how it gives its team tools to play around otherwise really dangerous threats or structures, thanks to its traits and its interesting synergies with other Pokemon on stall.

It is true that Alomomola is a flawed Pokemon, as it is incredibly passive, fits on only a couple of very specific structures, and might be one of the worst Pokemon in the VR. However, sending it in UR would be severly underestimating the support capabilities it brings to the teams where it fits.

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 52HP / 252 Def / 204 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

The spread allows Alomomola to take a +2 Z Throat Chop from Weavile, rest is dumped in SpD.
Knock off is an option but it is usually hard to find the moveslot for it. It is something worth mentioning however, as running it allows it to force progress against Lefties Heatran and Tapu Fini that might attempt to switch into it. Boots are also runnable for some specific scenarios (if u want to prep for certain specific cores involving a hazard setter with a good mu vs your team, or if you want to make your MChomp/AGren MUs sturdier, for example)but missing on Rocky Helmet is huge.

Let's take a look at some interesting interactions involving Alomomola:
(All the Clefables here are physdef Unaware)
:alomomola: + :clefable: vs :weavile:
On stall, there isn't a whole lot of sturdy long term checks to band Weavile, and Alomomola has an important niche since it is one of them, while Clefable covers most SD sets. There is an example of Mola's flexibility against SD: if we originally don't know Weavile's set and see they go for SD as we send Alomomola, we have multiple options to deal with it, each of them having its specific drawbacks:

-If you directly send clefable, that means that Clefable has to kill Weavile with Moonblast (It 2HKOes but Clefable still the 1v1 eventually)depending on the gameplan of the opponent, they might decide to sack Weavile and go for TAxel so Clefable could be weakened at the end of the interaction (around 50-60%). From the RNG point of view the odds to be haxxed are quite small ; they either have to predict the Clefable switch in and crit with TAxel (which is unlikely since Mola could just stay in) or get a monstruous succession of crits during the 1v1.

-However, depending on your gameplan, you could choose to stay with Alomomola to either use Toxic or Wish. Toxic trades Alomomola health (Which can be worth since Alomomola can attempt to get health back with Regenerator) and potentially item to cripple Weavile, allowing Clefable to beat it just by clicking Soft-Boiled, and thus being at full health at the end of the interaction. Clicking Wish is also possible in this scenario if you expect the super rare LO and you want to bring Clef in as safely as possible, but that play usually only cover very specific situations.


:alomomola: + :clefable: vs :lopunny-mega: + PUP encore
This is an interesting interaction because pup mlop can win vs both of them taken individually ; however, together they migth be one of the strongest answer to pup MLop. Thanks to Regenerator, Alomomola isn't forced to immediately click wish, and can just click Toxic if PUP is expected. If Toxic connects, regardless of what is happening next, Clef can check by mindlessly click Soft-Boiled. Toxic MLop can be an annoyance against this core but usually that can be covered by Aromatherapy, or a partner (usually Skarm, Glisc or Corv).

:alomomola:vs :choice band: :choice specs: Choiced breakers
Weavile was mentionned earlier, but Alomomola defensive utility also extend to some other choiced breakers. One could argue that choiced breakers are usually unreliable against stall; and while this is true, this doesn't mean that stall has a great time facing them either. They either cannot abuse Alomomola thanks to Protect (Kyurem, Magnezone, and Koko otherwise get a potentially free turn vs Toxapex), or get scouted at least once (Tapu Lele (Mola is at 40 after taking a specs psychic + Regenerator, which is, on practice, not bad at all), Band Hoopa-U, Blacephalon, GZap, TTar).

Urshifu deserves a mention as well: outside of Pex, there aren't much stuff that can pretend being a sturdy check to it on Stall (it doesn't care about TPunch btw, Close Combat does more (50-60) EDIT: ofc it doesn't check it fully by itself but scouting the move is more than enough) and can even directly switch into slowbro attempting to future port, and click wish, preventing Urshifu from getting a kill and potentially getting a toxic off on Slowbro. This is huge because the two main other future sight absorber on MSC Stalls can be annoyed - MSab getting Surging-Striked through tect and disliking scald burns in certain keys MUs, and Shedinja can be inconsistent because of the existence of Weavile and TTar.

Here are some other examples of miscellaneous threats that can be disrupted by Alomomola:

:medicham-mega: This mon can be usually annoying, since MSab is often forced by Heatran's existence to run heavy SPDef investment, which mean MMedi can easily fish for a freeze/para against it. Alomomola can punish MMedicham multiple times over the course of the game simply by switching in and switching out against, thus getting an important 1/6 rocky helmet chip and regen off the damages with 2 or sometimes even 1 rounds of regenerator. It's not really scared of HJK as MSab is usually enough to deter the opponent from clicking that move (Mola only takes 70 max roll from jolly mmedi anyway, which is practically gone after two regens), and really don't care much about TPunch (46-55 from Jolly and 50-60 from adamant). It can also come in and click tect to waste ETerrain turns if needed.

4a :mawile-mega: Not a proper check but pivoting to get helmet chip is always nice.

:corviknight: :scizor-mega: :victini: :pelipper: Punishing U-Turn from those is always nice to get free turns on forced recovery if they have access to such move.

:garchomp-mega: This thing doesn't really have an actual counter on stall, but Alomomola stalls usually get away by being able to take a +2 eq, toxic it and regen off, sacking a mon and let unaclef stall it out. Usually a well played Mola stall doesn't give MChomp the opportunity to get more than one kill.

:swampert-mega: Quite specific but if your mana check doesn't also cover mpert, mola usually is the best choice in that role.

:hawlucha: If you expect taunt and have unaclef in the back, you can send it and freely click scald two times. If it's not taunt it's not a threat, but can still be used to avoid clef being weakened in a scenario similar to the sd weavile one.


Yada yada and so on. I could mention too how it can annoy defensive tom by regening off Volts if needed, or do a toxic hnr vs stuff like volc, np drei or mlatias, all of those being appreciated if Chansey is unavailable for X or Y reason (usually if it is threatened by a Weavile trap, let an unwanted threat in or is already pressured by something else, or just dead lol). Alomomola is a case by case mon, as its role can change a lot depending on MUs, even though it fits only very specific teams. It however rewards careful planning on said teams really well, and this is why it should be kept on the VR.
 
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while i defo dont agree to it being unranked, regular zap, which is its best counter, has seen an explosion in popularity. it also has to compete with lucha for a spot on the HO teams its mostly seen on and lucha most often wins. as a defiant user, it also faces competition from bisharp, who can trigger defiant off webs, which zap cant.
I actually think Zapdos-G has a niche on HO teams as a check to Landorus-T. I know the typical set is:
Zapdos-Galar @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunderous Kick
- Bulk Up
- Agility
- Brave Bird

However, I've found great success with this set:
Zapdos-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Thunderous Kick

I find that ScarfDos acts as anti-lead to a lot of the ladder teams that carry Landorus-T like candy -- I mean, it did rise to 51% usage (shouldn't this be looked at now?). It has a lot of flexibility to outspeeding a good chunk of the meta and getting KOs and chip damage. The most important to this anti-lead set is that can OHKO all but the Suicide Leads / Defensive Lando-Ts, because of Defiant, and still outspeed.

Defensive Lando-T
+1 252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 238-282 (62.3 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Scarfed Lando-T
+1 252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 310-366 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

I don't need to explain that Base 100s with a Scarf can also take on the majority of the top ranked pokemon 1v1. I think that Gapdos needs to be ranked around a B / B+, where Bisharp is. It's a really underrated threat that acts like a wild card.
 

Kyo

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Tbf Lando's cumulative usage in NDPL was 50% but with that said usage is not super relevant to determining if a mon is actually broken or not. A lot of factors effect usage like how splashable a mon is on certain builds and its versatility in different roles. None of the roles that Lando fills are done so well that it actually borders on being broken
 
i request changing the placement of 4 mons in the vr, here are the mons and why would they change their placements, please tell me if you disagree on something and why.

1- hydreigon a- to b


why should this thing drop not a tier but two? because i don't think it is worth using at all, it has 2 sets in this meta, the first one has nasty plot and roost with dark pulse and z earth power and little spd evs, i calc'd and after a nasty plot, this thing can ohko 95% of the things slower than him, that is good we have a wallbreaker here, the problem is that he doesn't outspeed much, yes he outspeeds walls but he doesn't even tie with base 100's, this leaves him as a prey to faster mons, even worse, every faster mon excluding mega zard y and gren have a super effective stab or just SE strong move in kart and mega latios case, also a mon that could kill almost everything that is slower? isn't that done by mons that are better in that job, now for the 2nd set, it is scarf and that set is actually the good side of hydre, it is a source of speed control an just needs a little chip to ohko fast mons such as koko, mega lop, weavile, if the scarf set didn't exist i would have suggested that this thing should drop to c/b- or even ur.

2- hoopa-unbound c to b


it doesn't matter what set hoopa-u is running, it is a threat offensively, if you decided to run band, this thing has a lot of power and can at least 2hko every mon in the vr excluding ttar if you ran ice punch instead of drain punch and glisc and defensive lando-t if you ran drain punch and the rare tang/hippo/alom (i tested with jolly, if he was adamant (he should since he still outspeeds modest tran and things that put spe evs to outspeed modest tran and jolly doesn't really outspeed anything) he could 2hko those mons), if hoopa-u was specs, it still has powerful damage output, and if scarf, you can outspeed mega lop and it can ohko every mon that is faster than normal hoopa-u excluding kyurem with his stab or coverage.

3- mega gallade c to b


"mega medicham but worse" that is what you are saying now, i agree that mega medi is better, but really, this thing has a lot of advantages over the mon with the exact same tier, role and typing, it could be different enough, with koff for amazing coverage (psychic/dark/fighting is unresistable coverage just like ghost/fighting) and more speed, this thing can be more threatening than mega medi itself with the right support, it can outspeed kartana, garchomp, mega medi itself and also doesn't need to rely on winning the speed tie against mega zard y or victini or something else, and thanks to sword dance and inner focus and koff, mega gallade isn't forced to choose between getting walled by lando-t/glisc or slowbro, also inner focus is helpful to counterplay mega lop, since it can't fake out you and get the little chip that would put you in return range, and after a sword dance, mega gallade ohko's everything slower, also justified is helpful to not only absorb koff, but abuse it too, megallade needs a scarf lele and some spikes and it will bring good results.

4- zapdos b+ to a-/a


everybody knows zapdos is an excellent mon, although it is placed in the vr with rain mons, if zapdos was only used on rain that would be fine, but zapdos could do more, his defensive set is amazing if you ran hp ice or defog, i am not gonna explain because i think everybody knows that this thing deserves a better placement.
 
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i request changing the placement of 4 mons in the vr, here are the mons and why would they change their placements, please tell me if you disagree on something and why.

1- hydreigon a- to b


why should this thing drop not a tier but two? because i don't think it is worth using at all, it has 2 sets in this meta, the first one has nasty plot and roost with dark pulse and z earth power and little spd evs, i calc'd and after a nasty plot, this thing can ohko 95% of the things slower than him, that is good we have a wallbreaker here, the problem is that he doesn't outspeed much, yes he outspeeds walls but he doesn't even tie with base 100's, this leaves him as a prey to faster mons, even worse, every faster mon excluding mega zard y and gren have a super effective stab or just SE strong move in kart and mega latios case, also a mon that could kill almost everything that is slower? isn't that done by mons that are better in that job, now for the 2nd set, it is scarf and that set is actually the good side of hydre, it is a source of speed control an just needs a little chip to ohko fast mons such as koko, mega lop, weavile, if the scarf set didn't exist i would have suggested that this thing should drop to c/b- or even ur.

2- hoopa-unbound c to b


it doesn't matter what set hoopa-u is running, it is a threat offensively, if you decided to run band, this thing has a lot of power and can at least 2hko every mon in the vr excluding ttar if you ran ice punch instead of drain punch and glisc and defensive lando-t if you ran drain punch and the rare tang/hippo/alom (i tested with jolly, if he was adamant (he should since he still outspeeds modest tran and things that put spe evs to outspeed modest tran and jolly doesn't really outspeed anything) he could 2hko those mons), if hoopa-u was specs, it still has powerful damage output, and if scarf, you can outspeed mega lop and it can ohko every mon that is faster than normal hoopa-u excluding kyurem with his stab or coverage.

3- mega gallade c to b


"mega medicham but worse" that is what you are saying now, i agree that mega medi is better, but really, this thing has a lot of advantages over the mon with the exact same tier, role and typing, it could be different enough, with koff for amazing coverage (psychic/dark/fighting is unresistable coverage just like ghost/fighting) and more speed, this thing can be more threatening than mega medi itself with the right support, it can outspeed kartana, garchomp, mega medi itself and also doesn't need to rely on winning the speed tie against mega zard y or victini or something else, and thanks to sword dance and inner focus and koff, mega gallade isn't forced to choose between getting walled by lando-t/glisc or slowbro, also inner focus is helpful to counterplay mega lop, since it can't fake out you and get the little chip that would put you in return range, and after a sword dance, mega gallade ohko's everything slower, also justified is helpful to not only absorb koff, but abuse it too, megallade needs a scarf lele and some spikes and it will bring good results.

4- zapdos b+ to a-/a


everybody knows zapdos is an excellent mon, although it is placed in the vr with rain mons, if zapdos was only used on rain that would be fine, but zapdos could do more, his defensive set is amazing if you ran hp ice or defog, i am not gonna explain because i think everybody knows that this thing deserves a better placement.
idk why you consider hydregion a potential C-UR wallbreaker but hoopa at B. Hoopa has no bulk on the physical side and a bad typing as far as resistances go, is overly reliant on prediction, and loses to every scarfer and pursuit ever while Hydregion has an earthquake immune, can switch in on ash-gren and heatran, has reliable recovery, and needs no prediction.
 
Quick Noms

:mew: B ---> B+
Incredibly splashable mon can fit on anything from pure HO to stall and fat balance in a large variety of rolls, with its useful movepool more than twice the size of most mons entire extended learnsets mew can be molded to solve many problems in team building, offering setup sweeping sets both special and physical, cosmic power taunt sets, SD with close combat and colbur berry to take on darks, hazard stack, defensive wisp, trick room setter, heal bell cleric, iron def body press, knock + future sight and volt-turn etc. this mon is very under utilised right now for what it can do you can ev and adjust the movepool/berry to 1v1 almost anything your team requires.

:aegislash:B- ---> C
Wow kings shield nerf really killed this thing off sub+toxic just doesnt work anymore you just sit there and slowly lose to any fat steel/toxic while offensive choice sets are outran by everything and when youre suprisingly not slower and actually hit first you often get ohko'd back due to how frail you are. These choice sets also get pursuit trapped near 100% of the time being ohko'd by pursuit from full even if you dont switch out. SD Sets are 4mss'de to shit and are usually outclassed by other SD Steels. If you want one run :mawile-mega: , :bisharp: or :scizor-mega: . If you wanna toxic stuff with a steel type you'd be more successful with :melmetal: if you want some banded shit to spam click poltergeist use :golurk: its honestly better. Aegi is simply not worth running in this meta.

:ribombee: UR ---> C
(partially copied from my set compendium post)
Ribombee should be here as the tiers best webs setter ill explain why its better than :shuckle:in several different ways and deserves to be atleast ranked the same, ribombee outclasses shuckle in most matchups but shuckle has been kept on the VR instead of it for way too long.
:heatran: is extremely common and will trap and remove shuckle ensuring you can only set webs once a game, ribombee sets webs and leaves healthy due to skill swapping flash fire.
:melmetal: against this ribombee is fast enough to get webs up while :shuckle: is not ruining your webs lead.
:lopunny-mega: ribombee being immune to flinch lets it 1v1 this forcing it to uturn out while :shuckle: can get encore trapped and you get swept by pup sets.
:blaziken:ribombee skill swaps this stopping it from speed boosting turn 1
:greninja:does 99% to :shuckle: and makes u take another hit or allow gren to transform, ribombee outspeeds and forces :greninja: out
:gliscor: can laugh at :shuckle:trying to hurt it while ribombee can skill swap it and 1v1 defog variants ensuring you keep webs up.
:diancie-mega: + :sableye-mega: ribombee can set webs vs magic bounce leads by skillswaping (sometimes this results in them setting rocks for you too) while shuckle is useless.

Apart from these theres plenty more situations where having the offensive presense makes ribombee outshine shuckle, as far as running one attack moonblast is as good as it gets and skill swap and stun spore offer great utility at shutting down threats and actually does something vs stall unlike shuckle. In fact ribombee being able to spread paralysis makes a key difference in not being used as fodder, yes shuckle can use encore to help prevent being fodder but one wrong encore prediction and you wont get up webs for the rest of the game. A 20% ribombee can still force things out and set webs while a 20% shuckle is dead weight useless apart from saccing.

RIBOMBEE REPLAYS
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldex-606590
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1502191915-r8psfce511kx97cvxmzuiefsjd4wgttpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1464595033-u2jng5hd33jxl95sk8y5ihwms8rbz4ppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1462407550-w62yavrormgfz4yo2u4l3s7an1g1z4upw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1451993615-akfzi0hq9y10w2xja6ss6gw0r38x27fpw


:diancie-mega: A- ---> A
IMO the strongest mixed attacker in Natdex, nomming for a rise due to the power of endeavour sets against stall, given its low hp endeavour typically puts any stall mon that switches in within immediate 2hko range including :chansey: which walls it normally. The only common stall mon that is immune to endeavor is :sableye-mega: which is destroyed by moonblast and does nothing back to mdiancie. On top of the stall breaking power MDiancie can destroy offence especially with webs up by outrunning and 2hkoing every grounded switchin apart from :serperior: and obscure scarfers like :greninja: + :choice-scarf: while also having the moves to punish most non grounded switch ins and defoggers..(:corviknight:, :latias-mega:, :landorus-therian:, :gliscor:, :skarmory:, :Zapdos:,:hydreigon:) I also find having the threat of magic bounce always at play tilts your opponents decision making throughout a game and can lead to them being less confident in the moves the click.

:latios-mega: B+ ---> C
If Mega Diancie is the strongest mixed attacker in the tier this mon is the weakest, basically its whole gimmick is half fast bolt beam with earthquake to kill :heatran:. This mon struggles to break past stuff unless youre some nut suprising people with cracked ice beam/tbolt predictions and while getting bullied harder than its superior twin by all the same stuff + even more stuff. Most fairies still ruin this mon so do dark types like :tyranitar:(3hko'd by eq even if you predict) and :weavile: (switches in since youre typically not running aura sphere) eq doesnt even 2hko :slowking-galar: all the time. You lose to things that Latias is bulky enough to beat after a calm mind like :Tapu-Koko:, :Lopunny-Mega:, :Greninja-ash: and shit just clicking u turn repeatedly. You still lose to all the common mlatias checks like spdef blobs(:chansey: + :Blissey: + :clefable: ), :melmetal:, :scizor-mega: , stuff that toxics you (like the :heatran: this things supposed to check) and :ferrothorn: if u dont tec a fire move. Doesnt deserve to be on the same tier as :garchomp-mega: and :swampert-mega:which are outshadowed by nothing on their respective team strucutres.

:slowking-galar: B ---> B+
This mon is incredible offering plenty of defensive utility while not sapping momentum from your team, glowking can functionally deal with most special attackers quickly having a high power output and great coverage along with future sight support, this mon can laugh at a lot of common fat waters that try and chip away at offensive teams through toxic and scald burns while forcing switches and enabling other breakers with future sight. The mons glowking switches in to often do so little to it that its easy to keep healthy from regen while still firing off multiple futures sights throughout a match. This is a mon that excels in the current meta.

:Seismitoad: C ---> UR- honestly dropkick this thing off the side of the VR
Im personally a proponent of having more niche stuff on the VR, more options that offer benefits over standard mons on more obscure or anti-meta builds. That being said seismitoad is not that, its still bad, really bad. It offers practically nothing over gastrodon other than stealth rocks while losing important shit like clear smog, consistent recovery, being able to check greninja. I cant even imagine how down bad on stealth rocks you would have to be before you think this fits on your team. As far as water grounds go :gastrodon:, :quagsire: and even :swampert: (which also has rocks and not just rocks but flip turn too) exist to fill the seperate niches you may need water-grounds for theres no practical reason to use seismitoad over these.

:ninetales-alola: + :arctozolt:B ---> B-
Hails fallen off a lot since its introduction to the tier through OX's hail BO. apart from that build which most players are familiar with by now its found trouble sticking on other teamstyles. Veil teams are also typically subpar screens builds and given the decline in hail usage lately it should be rewarded with a drop.

:ferrothorn: A+ ---> A
Ahh the CEO of chip himself. This mon is the king of passive damage output, slowly chipping away at things with contact damage, leech seed and hazards. I believe this mon deserves a drop for several reasons. Firstly is the rise of magnezone, ferrothorn is a mon that wants you to bait resisted attacks for it and also wants to be able to come in on uturns and resist volt switches meaning it will be hard switched in more often than brought in safely, however in our current magnezone heavy meta trying to punish uturns can often mean no more ferrothorn for the rest of the game. This mon is struggling right now for many of the same reasons corv is and should be adjusted accordingly.

:zygarde-10: UR ---> C
Zygarde's woofer form has 100 atk just like regular zygarde meaning you can slap a choice band on it and it has just as few switchins as regular Zygarde, along with being in a meta entirely not adapted for the presence of Thousand Arrows. A quick look at all the samples shows only three mons that can switch in to zygarde more than once: :tangrowth: + :rocky-helmet:, :gliscor: and :scizor-mega:. Upon closer inspection we find that neither Scizor set is actually bulky enough to avoid being 2HKO'd with rocks up so we'll disregard the scizors, now looking at gliscor it better be at 100% all the time even then it gets rolled on a 2HKO with rocks.
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 244 HP / 56 Def Gliscor: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 32% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
Tangrowth Is a good long term TArrows switchin but is crippled by toxic which we also run on this set and has also fallen in usage lately. If youre not up against a fairy you can also smash through with outrage.
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Similarly slowbro is another good switchin that also hates being toxic'd and has fallen in usage lately. Zydog has a niche IMO specifically on screens where it isnt as inhibited by its bad bulk and often gets the chance to spam out enough Tarrows to grab a few kills against the unprepared meta. This thing just smashes through common BO cores like :toxapex: +:corviknight:+ :clefable:and can be lethal in combination with strong special attackers like :Charizard-mega-y:, :tapu-lele:and Future Sight. On a lot of teams the only mon that can switch in once is :landorus-therian: and zydog forces chip on it allowing other mons to setup and sweep. Alternatively you can drop toxic and just glare everything. On top of all this banded extreme speed can function great for revenge killing things in a pinch. If you understand how to use a Weavile this thing isnt much different to operate effectively.

ZYDOG REPLAYS
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1503931118-27pe9bfjn2amcf0fsrbhsod9jmxzriapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1504411286-ptot11cwqkokqigzzba1vzhkvgtom2zpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1504481786-pf989mjzpsbxhv8pfdt5l4gfg6g90ocpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1504488606-0861tcne6pg8rh6yman4v9lbvr1c9nlpw
 
:Magnezone: from A+ --- > A/A-

honestly i dont think than magnezone is really that good.Outside of ferrothorn and scarf kartana there is not a lot than can actually trap and one shot, pokemon like mega scicor and melmetal that can be traped but they are just faster and easly one shot whit moves like super power and earthquake-This wouldn´t be a problem normally but is just waay to slow and it realisticaly can only one shot defensive mons like ferro or corv or traped choixed mons like scarf kartana or banded melmetal, and that aded the fact than when you one shot one of these,your´e just giving the rival a free turn because magnezone needs choise specs to one shot,scarf to make it fast enough to hit two times or z cristal for again,doing damage he is just not that great .That whit the fact than A+ is such a hight tier i think it should be lowered

:Chansey:/:Blissey: B --- > B+/A-

i dont think than i really explain why blissey and chansset are good... so im gona talk directly about why is still pretty good.I have to admit than blissey has a LOT of counters but still... ¿do i have to remember you that she counter/checs half of the pokedex? in my opinion tier b is waaay to low, she always fits in every team and im confident saying than her is hier tier than gastrodon,mega-latios and skarmory.I already know than every team has at least 1 counter but just the fact than forcing the rival to switch whit total confidence is amazing
 
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Magnezone from A+ --- > A/A-

honestly i dont think than magnezone is really that good.Outside of ferrothorn and scarf kartana there is not a lot than can actually trap and one shot, pokemon like mega scicor and melmetal that can be traped but they are just faster and easly one shot whit moves like super power and earthquake-This wouldn´t be a problem normally but is just waay to slow and it realisticaly can only one shot defensive mons like ferro or corv or traped choixed mons like scarf kartana or banded melmetal, and that aded the fact than when you one shot one of these,your´e just giving the rival a free turn because magnezone needs choise specs to one shot,scarf to make it fast enough to hit two times or z cristal for again,doing damage he is just not that great .That whit the fact than A+ is such a hight tier i think it should be lowered

Chasey/Blissey B --- > B+/A-

i dont think than i really explain why blissey and chansset are good... so im gona talk directly about why is still pretty good.I have to admit than blissey has a LOT of counters but still... ¿do i have to remember you that she counter/checs half of the pokedex? in my opinion tier b is waaay to low, she always fits in every team and im confident saying than her is hier tier than gastrodon,mega-latios and skarmory.I already know than every team has at least 1 counter but just the fact than forcing the rival to switch whit total confidence is amazing
With regard to Magnezone, you neglect to mention how Corviknight is forced to constantly U-turn rather than doing its job of walling and Defogging or removed before it gets the chance to set up and win lategame, and how both the Steels you mention get destroyed with minor and easy to obtain prior chip. Basically every team has a Steel on it, so Magnezone is never dead weight, and Pokemon like Kyurem and Tapu Lele can go crazy once Steels are down.

Magnezone is a central part of the current National Dex metagame as it scares Steels from switching into pivots they'd normally feel ok handling, and makes it extremely awkward to recover health on those Steels without inviting in Magnezone. In addition, Magnezone hits hard. Even outside its primary role, Magnezone can wear down defensive threats with strong Volt Switchs (Grounds don't like taking Flash Cannons or Steel Beams), use its excellent bulk to soft check many dangerous threats, and even countertrap other Magnezone. Yes, if you are Specs or Scarf, you require some prediction if the target isn't trapped, and you give out some free turns, but that's the same with any Choice item user. To sum it up, I'll just say some people have even floated the idea of banning Magnet Pull, that's how strong Magnezone is in the current metagame.

And as for Blissey, it's not accurate to say Blissey forces switchs. It invites switches, which is a different proposition. Blissey's main problem is how tragically passive it is. Giving Blissey a free turn by switching, at worst means it gets to Teleport into something else. Its other options are click SToss for chip, click status, or use Stealth Rocks it has no way of keeping up because every hazard remover in the tier just sits on it. This is what I mean when I say it invites switches rather than forcing them. A forced switch is when Victini threatens Ferrothorn with V-create. Blissey cannot threaten anything.

So let's say Blissey gets that free turn by walling something, and has enough health healing is not a priority. What can you do with that free turn? As hinted at above, the only real answer is Teleport something else in to do the threatening. This is the entirety of Blissey's niche: switch into special attacker using Boots to avoid getting worn down, click Teleport. If you're playing stall and want bulk rather than pivoting, use Chansey. While this niche is large enough to get it to the B ranks, and in metas gone by it was way up in the A ranks, a few things don't go Blissey's way right now.
Kyurem: When one of the tier's best special attackers Pressure stalls you out or, even worse, uses you as setup fodder for its Dragon Dance set, you're probably not in a great spot as a special wall.
Taunt: This move is everywhere, and with good reason. Anything that runs this shuts Blissey down with ease.
Ash-Greninja: When one of the tier's other best special attackers Spikes on you for free. While Blissey does a great job of shutting down Ash-Greninja, it cannot prevent it assisting its teammates by Spiking on the switch. Ash-Greninja is one of the biggest reasons why the BlissBro Teleport core fell out of favour, as conceding Spikes so readily, together with a bulky Water that loses to Ash-Gren and gets easily Knocked, makes for a fat L.
Psyshock: This one move is the bane of Blissey's existence, and prevents it from checking Tapu Lele and Mega Lati@s like it should do. Requring secondary checks to all these dangerous attackers makes you wonder why you're using Blissey at all.
Pursuit: Blissey is so weak physically that Pursuit trappers have no problems inflicting severe damage to it as it tries to escape an impending physical battering. This is another reason for the fall of BlissBro.

As for Chansey, as hinted above, it only fits on stall due to being outclassed as a pivot by Boots Blissey.

Hope this makes sense!
 
With regard to Magnezone, you neglect to mention how Corviknight is forced to constantly U-turn rather than doing its job of walling and Defogging or removed before it gets the chance to set up and win lategame, and how both the Steels you mention get destroyed with minor and easy to obtain prior chip. Basically every team has a Steel on it, so Magnezone is never dead weight, and Pokemon like Kyurem and Tapu Lele can go crazy once Steels are down.

Magnezone is a central part of the current National Dex metagame as it scares Steels from switching into pivots they'd normally feel ok handling, and makes it extremely awkward to recover health on those Steels without inviting in Magnezone. In addition, Magnezone hits hard. Even outside its primary role, Magnezone can wear down defensive threats with strong Volt Switchs (Grounds don't like taking Flash Cannons or Steel Beams), use its excellent bulk to soft check many dangerous threats, and even countertrap other Magnezone. Yes, if you are Specs or Scarf, you require some prediction if the target isn't trapped, and you give out some free turns, but that's the same with any Choice item user. To sum it up, I'll just say some people have even floated the idea of banning Magnet Pull, that's how strong Magnezone is in the current metagame.

And as for Blissey, it's not accurate to say Blissey forces switchs. It invites switches, which is a different proposition. Blissey's main problem is how tragically passive it is. Giving Blissey a free turn by switching, at worst means it gets to Teleport into something else. Its other options are click SToss for chip, click status, or use Stealth Rocks it has no way of keeping up because every hazard remover in the tier just sits on it. This is what I mean when I say it invites switches rather than forcing them. A forced switch is when Victini threatens Ferrothorn with V-create. Blissey cannot threaten anything.

So let's say Blissey gets that free turn by walling something, and has enough health healing is not a priority. What can you do with that free turn? As hinted at above, the only real answer is Teleport something else in to do the threatening. This is the entirety of Blissey's niche: switch into special attacker using Boots to avoid getting worn down, click Teleport. If you're playing stall and want bulk rather than pivoting, use Chansey. While this niche is large enough to get it to the B ranks, and in metas gone by it was way up in the A ranks, a few things don't go Blissey's way right now.
Kyurem: When one of the tier's best special attackers Pressure stalls you out or, even worse, uses you as setup fodder for its Dragon Dance set, you're probably not in a great spot as a special wall.
Taunt: This move is everywhere, and with good reason. Anything that runs this shuts Blissey down with ease.
Ash-Greninja: When one of the tier's other best special attackers Spikes on you for free. While Blissey does a great job of shutting down Ash-Greninja, it cannot prevent it assisting its teammates by Spiking on the switch. Ash-Greninja is one of the biggest reasons why the BlissBro Teleport core fell out of favour, as conceding Spikes so readily, together with a bulky Water that loses to Ash-Gren and gets easily Knocked, makes for a fat L.
Psyshock: This one move is the bane of Blissey's existence, and prevents it from checking Tapu Lele and Mega Lati@s like it should do. Requring secondary checks to all these dangerous attackers makes you wonder why you're using Blissey at all.
Pursuit: Blissey is so weak physically that Pursuit trappers have no problems inflicting severe damage to it as it tries to escape an impending physical battering. This is another reason for the fall of BlissBro.

As for Chansey, as hinted above, it only fits on stall due to being outclassed as a pivot by Boots Blissey.

Hope this makes sense!
thanks for the answer im considering it for my teams (y)
 

Zneon

bocchi rocks
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Slowking to UR

Okay someone's already made this nomination but I want to bring it up again because it needs to be said. Slowking is complete dogwater in this metagame and I don't really see where or when you will put this on your team. It's a bulky Water-type that makes your team more Ash-Greninja weak so you have to put a secondary AshGren check in order to more properly play around it. Slowbro does this too, but unlike Slowking, Slowbro actually has things it checks reliably such as Mega Lopunny, Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Mega Medicham.

It is a very unreliable Mega Lopunny and Mega Diancie pivot especially if it's chipped, it, most importantly, it's a bulky Water that folds to Pursuit, which is pretty much everywhere since Weavile is one of the absolute best Pokemon in the metagame. It checks Heatran and Tapu Lele, sure, but you can add an actual bulky Water like Tapu Fini, Slowbro, or Toxapex and a Tapu Lele / Heatran check so you do Slowking's job without actually putting it on your team, because unlike these bulky waters, Slowking is a bulky water that barely checks what it wants reliably to where you need to overcompromise for it in the builder because of its weaknesses, which is not what you want a defensive Pokemon to do.


Greninja to A

Protean Greninja is an excellent Pokemon and I know I'm not the only one who constantly spams thing on a lot of my teams now. It's such a huge threat, even without the surprise factor. All you need on it is Ice Beam and Gunk Shot really, the last two moves can be whatever and you can mold your team into dealing with stuff Greninja can't beat with its last two moves, so this Pokemon isn't really hard to support especially given how threatening it can be with the set it chooses. Spikes is a huge boon and I feel Protean Greninja is a better setter than Ash-Greninja at this point in the meta because Corviknight is starting to fall off while Tapu Fini isn't, if anything it's prevalent as hell and Greninja is able to threaten it with ease. Furthermore, teams have been molded to deal with Ash-Greninja more easily, Protean Greninja completely dunks on the Ash-Greninja checks. Tapu Fini? Gunk Shot. Toxapex? Psychium Z. Ferrothorn? HP Fire.

Overall I feel Greninja isn't really matchup fishy anymore because in every game it's in, it always seems to pull its weight and threaten at least one OHKO on so many team structures because you can customize your Greninja to be whatever you want. Incredible mon and it feels wrong to have this thing in B when it's probably better than Ash-Greninja right now, personally think it's A but I wouldn't mind A- either.

That being said, I feel Ash-Greninja should drop to A since it definitely dropped of a little, but I'll talk about why in a later date.
 

pannu

「GO BEYOND」
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Hey everyone! exicting news today.

Firstly, Council updates! Myself, Kyo, adem, and omi have all been added to the VR council. Congratulations to us! Though, unfortunately, R8 has left the council. Ty for your time!

...aaaaand we got a new VR update! here you can see the voting sheet

Code:
Rises:

Weavile: A+ ->S-
Serperior: A- -> A
Slowbro: A- -> A
Rotom-Wash: B+ -> A-
Volcarona: B+ -> A-
Zapdos: B+ -> A-
Hawlucha: B -> B+
Greninja (Protean): B -> A-
Buzzwole: B- -> B+
Moltres-Galar: C -> B-
Deoxys-Defense: UR -> B-
Zapdos-Galar: UR -> B-
Mega Charizard X: UR -> C
Rotom-Heat: UR -> C
Ribombee: UR -> C
Keldeo: UR -> C


Drops:

Landorus-Therian: S -> S-
Ash-Greninja: A+ -> A
Tyranitar: A- -> B+
Hydreigon: A- -> B+
Tangrowth: A- -> B+
Rillaboom: B+ -> B-
Amoonguss: B -> B-
Bisharp: B -> B-
Arctozolt: B -> C
Excadrill: B -> B-
Ninetales-Alola: B -> B-
Aegislash: B- -> C
Gengar: B- -> C
Slowking: B- -> C
Thundurus-Incarnate: C -> UR
Tornadus-Incarnate: C -> UR
:ss/Landorus-Therian:
Lando has dropped down into S- with Mega Lopunny. This is mostly because of its tendencies to get worn down overtime, it being a lackluster check to physical attackers like Mega Lopunny, Mega Medicham, etc. Offensive Lando sets like SD Flyinium have fallen off recently as well. Finally, it faces major competition from Gliscor as a teams Ground-type.

:ss/Weavile:
Weavile has raised to S-, this is because Swords Dance + any Z move is stupidly hard to switch into, and it preys on the many bulky offenses running around atm, while also being one of the best ways for offense teams to deal with Mega Latias. Choice Band Weavile is also fantastic on fatter balances as a tool to make progress and remove threatening Pokemon such as Tapu Lele.

:ss/Greninja: :ss/greninja-ash:

AshGren has fallen off massively compared to its S rank days. With Toxapex, Ferrothorn, or Tapu Fini being on nearly every team it struggles to make any meaningful progress, and with how common Mega Lopunny now, it tends to get revenge killed quite easily.

On the contrary, Protean Greninja has seen a massive boom in viability recently, believe it! Its ability threaten teams with its insane coverage move makes it very annoying to switch into, notably Groundium-Z is incredibly good for baiting Toxapex for its teammates, but sets such as Life Orb Physical, Z Hydro Pump Special, and Choice Scarf are also seeing usage. Its also fantastic at keeping its Spikes up thanks to it putting pressure on Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, and Corviknight. Its ability to run Spikes Lead and Boots pivot sets makes it fit on HO and Balance as well.

:ss/Corviknight:
Corv does not appreiciate the recent rise of Magnezone, and Heatran becoming the most popular Stealth Rock setter, as its able to keep hazards up against Corv. and the fact that its a Steel-type which loses to NMI Kyurem and Calm Mind Clefable leaves you wishing you had a diffrent bird often.

nvm apparently we, as a council, dont know how to handle votes that r tied. corv stays in A.

:ss/volcarona:
Volcarona is really scary to switch into, i do not need to elaborate on that. However, HP Ground also allows it to catch the ever so popular Heatran off-guard and KO it, which can be huge for teammates like Tapu Lele or Serperior. Theres also the fact that its the best Kyurem switch-in offense teams has to offer, as well as the experimentation with diffrent sets such as Life Orb, Bulky firium Z on Stall, and SubSwarm is what caused it to rise.

:ss/Rotom-wash:
Rotom-W Absolutely ruins the common core of Fini-Ferro-Tran, and it is generally incredibly annoying to switch into, hf getting Volt Switched on and being unable to stop it unless you wanna get your Landorus burnt or Gliscor Pumped.

:ss/hydreigon:
One of the main reasons to use Hydreigon is because it has fantastic defensive utility on Balance Teams, being able to check stuff like AshGren, Heatran, and Manaphy. However, AshGren's dip in usage, ProtGrens rise, and the revival of Z-Steel Heatran has made Hydreigon kinda obsolete. Furthermore it struggles heavily against Weavile, Tapu Fini, and Mega Lopunny- all meta-defining Pokemon at the moment.

:ss/Rillaboom:
He has bad STAB, he's super weak
Th-this Kong has a terrible niche

And also it gets walled by Heatran, Mega Scizor, Mega Latias, etc. While also being revenge killed by threats like Kyurem, Kartana, and Victini. The recent rise in popularity of OffSciz and Volcarona on offense also kinda ruins its niche of messing up HO...but hey, atleast it still kinda 6-0s rain!

:ss/Deoxys-Defense:
Deoxys-D is really annoying to face, its standard Cosmic Power + Taunt set is super annoying to handle and it can easily snowball and control entire games.

:ss/zapdos-galar: :ss/charizard-mega-X:
These were both unranked last slate, mainly because the VR council hadnt really used them, however after people in the VR thread raised concern about these obviously viable Pokemon getting unranked for no apparent reason, they were put back on the VR.

:ss/arctozolt: :ss/ninetales-alola:
Hail has kinda fallen off recently, with the advent of fast scarfers like Tapu Lele and Kartana, bulky steels, and the rise of Sun and Rain causing weather wars- which the hail user unfortunately tends to lose, has warranted this playstyle to be considered niche and gimmicky. While Arctozolt dropped all the way to C tier, Alotales has niches outside of dedicated Hail teams that made it be put slightly above C.

:ss/Rotom-Heat:
has access to nasty plot, a crazy strong fire move, and STAB moves that beat bulky waters, its rlly simple and has good enough defensive utility to warrant getting ranked.

:ss/gengar:
fits on HO and 6-0s stall, stall is rlly bad rn so u dont need to dedicate an entire mon to winning that MU

:ss/slowking:
slowking is a bulky water that loses to AshGren, makes for rlly awkward teamcomps alot of the time and is just outclassed by its Galarian Counterpart and Slowbro.

:ss/aegislash:
This thing switches into psychics and does nothing in return. wtf why is it ranked

:ss/Thundurus: :ss/Tornadus:
these pokemon are incredibly inconsistent, if you want an offensive flying type run Zapdos instead please

If you have any other questions, ask them in the thread here and i or another council member will get to them
 
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Kyo

In Limbo
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Because its incredibly difficult to cover every offensive threat in the tier at once (Rain, Tapu Lele, Kyurem, Magnezone, etc), no matter which 6 you run on stall you're gonna be weak to something important, thus making it rather matchup fishy and inconsistent.
To expand on this, no team (stall or otherwise) will have counterplay to every threat in the meta. However, stall is passive and when you run into a threat that is particularly dangerous vs the 6 mons you chose it becomes much harder to play around it. Offensive teams can be weak to something like Tapu Lele for example but still put pressure on it and are capable of winning before Tapu Lele cleans up. Stall doesn't usually have that luxury.
 

R8

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I wanted to add that full Stall also can struggle a lot to force progress to actually win the game. Pokemon like Toxapex, Gliscor, Clefable and Corviknight can buy lot of time for their team, which ironically can make stall lose long term. Stall isn't only tasked to choose the breakers it wants to win and lose against, but it also cannot fit lot of options to force progress.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1490412095 In my opinion, this replay showcases this pretty well. One could think that the main win condition for Kyotoshi here was Victini sun-boosted V-Creates, but in practice finding opportunities for it is not easy task, and Dragonite can even check it as long as Multiscale isn't broken. However, in order to eventually win, this stall relies a lot on hazards, and has a win condition in CM Koko. However, this strategy completely thuds against Kyotoshi's double defog Kartana+Corviknight core which pretty much guarantees that the stall will lose the hazard war eventually, while CM Koko is denied long term by Gastrodon.

Stall can even face similar issues against threats that aren't really known for their longevity, like Tapu Fini, Rotom-W or defensive Heatran. In my opinion, lot of Pokemon viabilities on stall depend (among other things, of course) on how good they are at preventing those from getting free turns of Leftovers recovery. This is critically important to the point that it can be worth to sack MSableye in order to remove Leftovers from Tapu Fini. Some might remember that also one of the reasons i nominated Pyukumuku for UR : taunt Tapu Fini and defensive Heatran can easily get free turns of Leftovers recovery against it, and that contribute to the fact that Pyukumuku needs more than what it can bring to its team.

Also i wanted to ask a quick question: some of the UR mons nominations in the sheet didn't get 8 votes, is this an oversight?
 
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20220225_140154.jpg

Hey guys, I am going to nominate Mamoswine for the C or B- rank on the viability ranking.

•The first thing that makes Mamoswine pretty good is the fact that it checks many very powerful Pokemon like Landorus, Gliscor, (Mega) Garchomp, (Mega) Latias, (Mega) Tyranitar, Tapu Koko, Magnezone and Mega Mawile as examples.

•Mamoswine also doesn't have many good counters because of it's very good Attack stat with a base of 130 and it's great offensive typing with Ice and Ground. These calcs will show the power of Choise Band Mamoswine:

252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 237-279 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 288-340 (90.2 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 378-445 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 264-312 (93.9 - 111%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I was pretty lucky in this Replay, but Mamoswine still did a very good job here.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day :)
 

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