Resource National Dex UU Viability Rankings

[Arishem]

credits to Dybala jr for the amazing banner!

National Dex UU Viability Rankings​

These are the current standings for the National Dex UU tier. All Pokémon will be ranked based on how their current traits translate to the state of the metagame, which includes consistency, how splashable the mon is and many other traits that would place the mon in it's current tier. All Pokémon are also ranked alphabetically. If you would like to nom a Pokémon to a higher rank, or nom to a lower rank please bring evidence to substantiate your claims. Replays are required as well if you want to nom a Pokémon from UR to Ranked.
Also credits to Sprite Project Smogon for being able to offer extra sprites such as Mega Evolutions. Extra credits to WolfPP for the Alolan Raichu, Alolan Ninetales, Mew and Jirachi sprites.

VR Council:
Niadev
sanguine
MudkipBeans
Lupla
N_Mareanie
Meminger21
Arishem
Pubo


S-Rank
Top of the top. Rulers of the metagame. These Pokemon fit on most playstyles and need minimal support to function, if any at all.

S

• 
  Scizor

S-

• 
  Aegislash

A-Rank
Meta defining, but not to the extent of the Pokemon in S Rank. These Pokemon need minimal support to function.

A+

• 
  Altaria-Mega
• 
  Amoonguss
• 
  Celesteela
• 
  Hippowdon
• 
  Hydreigon
• 
  Mienshao
• 
  Rotom-Wash
• 
  Salamence
• 
  Terrakion
• 
  Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
• 
  Zeraora

A

• 
  Azelf
• 
  Buzzwole
• 
  Keldeo
• 
  Manectric-Mega
• 
  Moltres
• 
  Nihilego
• 
  Primarina
• 
  Roserade
• 
  Skarmory
• 
  Slowbro-Galar
• 
  Slowking
• 
  Tangrowth
• 
  Zarude

A-

• 
  Cobalion
• 
  Dragonite
• 
  Rhyperior
• 
  Swampert
• 
  Volcanion

B-Rank
Solid Pokemon, but they don't shape the meta like S and A Rank. They have a defined role which is often applicable and usually quite valuable. These Pokemon always need some support to bring out the best in them.

B+

• 
  Aggron-Mega
• 
  Bisharp
• 
  Deoxys-Defense
• 
  Mamoswine
• 
  Nidoking
• 
  Nidoqueen
• 
  Rotom-Heat
• 
  Sharpedo-Mega
• 
  Zygarde-10%

B

• 
  Azumarill
• 
  Chandelure
• 
  Diggersby
• 
  Hatterene
• 
  Krookodile
• 
  Reuniclus
• 
  Steelix-Mega
• 
  Tapu Bulu
• 
  Tentacruel

B-

• 
  Dracozolt
• 
  Gastrodon
• 
  Infernape
• 
  Jellicent
• 
  Mandibuzz
• 
  Necrozma
• 
  Seismitoad
• 
  Tornadus

C-Rank
Niche Pokemon that have little to no effect on the metagame, being rarely applicable, highly specific or simply not that valuable in the current meta. Using these Pokemon requires you to focus most of the team on supporting it. Oftentimes when a Pokemon only fits on one specific archetype, they'll reside in this tier.

C+

• 
  Arctozolt
• 
  Barraskewda
• 
  Conkeldurr
• 
  Ninetales-Alola
• 
  Noivern
• 
  Pidgeot-Mega
• 
  Polteageist
• 
  Salazzle
• 
  Sceptile-Mega
• 
  Scolipede
• 
  Starmie
• 
  Staraptor

C

• 
  Chesnaught
• 
  Crobat
• 
  Froslass
• 
  Gligar
• 
  Ribombee
• 
  Sneasel
• 
  Toxtricity
• 
  Weezing-Galar

D-Rank
Pokemon who are unviable and either meet the usage threshold or are blacklisted for discussion. They are either completely outclassed or completely ineffective in a competitive game, often both. There is no reason to use any of these Pokemon on a serious team. This rank serves as a warning against using them.

• Beedrill-Mega
  Reasoning

  While its Adaptability boosted STABs, high speed and solid attack initially make it seem like it should be broken, the reality couldn't be any further from the truth. It suffers from a similar, but not as extreme, issue to Breloom where most teams are prepared for it naturally, such as with Scizor, Amoonguss, Celesteela, Hippowdon, Buzzwole, Skarmory, and more, but by far its biggest issue is Stealth Rock. Being a Pokemon that will use U-turn 90% of the time due to how often there is a defensive check to it is not good when Stealth Rock takes 25% from you every time, and NDUU is not a meta with a plethora of hazard control options to begin with, and most of the few ones we have are not very good. This mandates stacking multiple Defog users and almost always a Hatterene to try and keep rocks off of Mega Beedrill's side, but these team compositions still often lose to common offensive rocks setters like Nihilego, Rhyperior and Terrakion anyways.
  
  Worse still, many of its defensive checks often run Rocky Helmet, punishing it even more for using the only move it realistically can in most situations. Its former only niche was Pursuit trapping Alakazam and not sucking, but Alakazam has since been banned, so this is no longer relevant. While U-turning in breakers with it may seem appealing, the things Mega Beedrill needs on its team to function mean the selection of breakers it can run while still not being weak to 5 different Pokemon is extremely limited. In general, Mega Beedrill is outclassed both as a U-turn spammer and speed control by Scizor, who boasts considerable defensive utility, does not mandate that half the team support it, and is far more flexible in the builder. Bullet Punch also lets it revenge kill several sweepers Mega Beedrill can't, especially with Choice Band or Life Orb Scizor. Fell Stinger has been experimented with but was determined that it should be avoided as Mega Beedrill will never be in a position to kill something with it, and any scenario where it wins with the boost is a scenario where it won unboosted. For this reason, Swords Dance is not much better. It's not Breloom awful, but it's not viable.
• Breloom
  Reasoning

  Completely walled by multiple top tier defensive mons, often multiple on a team (namely Mega Altaria, Aegislash, Amoonguss, Moltres, Tangrowth, Salamence, Buzzwole, Skarmory, Slowbro-Galar and Roserade, but this isn't the entire list, far from it), and offensively checked by faster Mach Punch resists that are on almost every team (Mega Altaria, Moltres, Salamence, Buzzwole, Roserade, and more), the number of teams that Breloom can do anything against, even with the other team not considering it at all in the builder (ie. it gets walled/checked by accident while checking top threats), is laughably small. While Rockium should theoretically help against one or two of these checks, Rockium is well known by now and will fail to break past the second defensive check anyways due to being a one time use. It only helps against Moltres and Salamence anyways.
  
  The absolute best case scenario for it is it Spores something and then is sacked later, which is generous given the prevalence of bulky grass types like Amoonguss and Tangrowth. If you want a Spore mon, just use Amoonguss, who is just as effective as a Spore user and not completely useless outside of Spore - it is genuinely much more of an offensive presence in most games. Sets such SD Poison Heal Facade and Natural Gift Fire have been explored but do not beat anywhere near enough defensive mons to justify it, or worse, opens it up to even more checks, and does not get past its issue of being revenge killed by a plethora of faster Mach Punch resists. If you are thinking about running Breloom in a serious competitive team, don't. You will be severely underwhelmed at best.
• Donphan
  Reasoning

  Donphan is outclassed by Hippowdon in every way, and the role compression Ice Shard and Rapid Spin theoretically give is made useless by the fact that Donphan cannot effectively use either of them, negating what niche its role compression could have given it. Hippowdon is bulkier, only slightly weaker, also has Stealth Rock and, most importantly, has a recovery move in Slack Off, making it not reliant on Leftovers for recovery. Ice Shard might seem appealing at first, but it fails to come close to OHKOing any relevant sweeper. Even Dragon Dance Salamence, the frailest relevant sweeper that Ice Shard should be useful against, avoids being OHKOd, only having a slight chance of being KOd after Stealth Rock, mandating you either play super agressively vs Salamence (which Ice Shard is supposed to eliminate the need of in the first place) or sack two Pokemon to it before you have a chance to kill it.
  
  As a Rapid Spin user, it fails to beat any relevant Stealth Rock user aside from Terrakion and Nihilego, the former being able to Swords Dance on the switch in and potentially OHKO with Close Combat if Donphan takes even the slightest chip and the latter being able to threaten being the Meteor Beam set which runs Grass Knot, preventing Donphan from coming in until after Stealth Rock goes up and Nihilego's set is revealed. Even if the Donphan user is sure, it still risks being poisoned by Sludge Bomb, on top of taking damage it can't heal off due to lacking a recovery move, and generally speaking Nihilego will outlast Donphan. You are actively shooting yourself in the foot by using Donphan instead of Hippowdon.
• Regieleki
  Reasoning

  Regieleki had a niche as a suicide lead screens setter before Light Clay was banned, making the playstyle much less practical and reliable, and killing what little niche Regieleki had. As any role other than a screen setter, it is woefully ineffective. Thanks to its absolutely awful coverage, it is hard walled by any volt immune, which is mandatory on any serious team to prevent or at least significantly deter Volt Switch spam from much more viable Pokemon, namely Zeraora and Mega Manectric. While Normalium Hyper Beam may seem appealing at first, most volt immunes are more than bulky enough to weather it, and most just heal it off anyways. Additionally, many players know to expect the Normalium set from the outset, and will play accordingly. Worse, even if you get rid of the ground, you aren't getting past any of the numerous electric resists we have any time soon without Choice Specs, which is essentially a meme set. Physical sets are no better. Don't bother with it, if it was going to pull a Spectrier, it would have already.
• Quagsire
  Reasoning

  Quagsire itself isn't actually a bad mon and is pretty good on stall. The problem is stall isn't very good. Outside of stall, there are no less than three Pokemon who completely outclass it as a water/ground type - Swampert, Seismitoad, and Gastrodon. Even with Unaware, it is generally too passive to be useful outside of stall, even if none of these other Pokemon were relevant.

Posting Rules (PLEASE READ):

• No one liners.
• When nomming a currently unranked Pokemon, replays are mandatory.
• Be polite and respectful. Flaming, namecalling, personal attacks and the like will not be tolerated.
• Do not talk about ongoing suspects here. Use the Suspect thread for that. The VR thread is for the current meta, not what the meta might be in two weeks time after X mon is banned or Y mon is unbanned.
• Do not make posts saying "I think X Pokemon should be Y rank" with no further elaboration or explanation.

Posting Guidelines:

• Don't state obvious facts about a Pokemon (e.g "Urshifu-Rapid-Strike has a high base attack stat and high base power STABs"), talk about their position in the current metagame (e.g "Urshifu-Rapid-Strike significantly exploits the presence of <x core> in the metagame right now"). We are capable of looking their stats up on Pokemon Showdown as well, after all.
• When nomming a currently unranked Pokemon, we strongly recommend only including replays against good teams/players - we're not going to take a nom seriously when its only replay features a Breloom or Donphan or a game where one player sacked every single one of their Mega Altaria checks for no reason, or let Scizor set up to +6 on their STAB choice locked Sylveon.
• Usage is a valid argument to back up your point, but it absolutely should not be the entire argument for it. Remember, there have been multiple occasions where very clearly unviable Pokemon like Donphan have been used more than A+ or even S rank Pokemon.

 

[Avery]

Baker told me that VR nominations should go here so I'm taking his word, going to make this brief since it's been covered at length on Discord many times.

Steelix-Mega: B+ -> A-

First of all, if you've heard me talking about Mega Steelix in the last two weeks, I've probably tried to convince you that it's the best thing to ever grace the UU tier. Well thats not entirely how I feel, yet I do feel that it's very good matchup vs a majority of the metagame warrants a rise, let me explain.

So the first thing that I really am enjoying when it comes to Steelix is its ability to check Scizor lacking Superpower and is a terrific pivot into Scizor's STABs as well, though this is not the major selling point. Obviously, the titanic Defense allows you to come out on top against the likes of Mega Aerodactyl, Salamence, and Weavile, yet again, the dominance over physical hits is not the biggest pro for Mega Steelix. The loss of Tyranitar led to the rise of Latias, and with Latias's rise came an opportunity for Steelix. Steelix walls every set of Latias's, and can cripple Latias with Toxic. Additionally, the new popularity of Altaria/Diancie/Gardevoir paired with Magneton to erase Scizor, Skarm, and Steela is proving very effective in the current tier, and Steelix is the one Steel who sits on these team styles. Unfortunately, the lack of reliable recovery hurts Steelix, but luckily it synergizes fantastically with Wish Blissey, lending to a fair bit of sustainability. Admittedly, you require staying at high health to check Gardevoir, but the level of effectiveness at halting the Magneton-anchored Fairy Mega teams that are increasingly commonplace coupled with the ability to swallow a majority of physical attackers alive, including some variants of tier king Scizor, more than warrants a rise to A- for Steelix.

Sevelon is also freed in 5 posts, very cash money

 

[N_Mareanie]

I'll just go ahead and say I think lots of placements in the VR are currently not representative enough of how the metagame actually is, so let me make some nominations...

DROPS
A+ --> A
I think Hippowdon can move down. Skarmory has mostly taken over as THE physically defensive glue in the tier, as it's a way better Urshifu and Scizor check. Hippowdon just doesn't find itself used on many teams at the moment as it struggles with certain 'mons rising in popularity like Tapu Bulu and Latias. It also doesn't beat Rotom-Wash, the best hazard remover in the tier. It's just not on the same level as other A+ ranked 'mons anymore and should drop.

A --> A-
Still solid but Mega Altaria has taken over its role as defensive stall mega and Mega Sableye also gets hella abused by Mega Diancie and Mega Gardevoir. Still solid but nowhere near as splashable / consistent as other A ranked 'mons.

A- --> B+ / B
This thing just struggles. Infernape and Urshifu are everywhere, Skarmory usage is at an all time high, and doesn't even see itself used much outside of HO.

A- --> B+
Still a fine Pokemon, but really doesn't perform as well when usage of Rotom-Heat & Rotom-Wash are super high, as well as the fact most people are rather using Weavile right now considering the speed tier and Pursuit + STAB Knock Off. Ice / Ground is still a deadly STAB but it doesn't make much progress when Pain Split Rotoms are everywhere and other breakers are preferred.

A- --> B+
Only seen on Spikes HO which has not been used a lot lately considering how much it struggles with Urshifu. I'd personally sometimes rather use Mega Gyarados because you can actually set up on Urshifu providing you haven't mega evolved yet. Should be B+ together with other HO staple Mimikyu.

B+ --> B
Bad Latias check and Rotom-Wash is 9/10 times preferred as a Defogger. Bad rocker, only clicks Scald and Toxic and kind of saps momentum ngl. Decent Mega Gardevoir check by no recovery is a L. This thing should drop as it rarely finds itself on teams anymore because of the aforementioned reasonings.

B+ --> B
Magneton hype has gone down now that steel types like Mega Steelix are taking over. Still solid just not B+ solid also considering how much trouble it has actually getting in on the things that it wants to trap.

B --> B-
C --> B-
These two should just be ranked together in B-. Latias lowkey fucks this core considering Rising Voltage isn't boosted vs it, but still solid enough to stay within the B ranks.

B- --> C / UR
Bad 'mon this thing never sweeps anymore fam. HO wants to use different 'mons anyway so they don't automatically lose to Urshifu. It's usable but realistically you're not using this over any other slots considering you'd be giving up too much.

B- --> C
Okay I do think this should be ranked considering it's actually a decent Rocker, but like, it is not B- at all. It virtually loses to most of the metagame, and with Pursuit users rising, Jirachi and Blissey being top tier, Mega Steelix getting more usage, and Scizor still being basically king, this will never be consistent. Specs is alright but again fails to consistently break.

Give these the shaft. They are bad and / or outclassed, not explaining why

Avalugg
Barbaracle
Durant
Heracross
Houndoom-Mega
Xatu

RISES
A+ --> S
I think this 'mon has proven to be S-rank worthy, despite not being on the exact same level as Latias or Scizor. I won't go over it too much since I've covered Mega Gardevoir well enough in an earlier post, but this Pokemon is just such a threat and a half. It has virtually no hard counters due to its splashable 4th moveslot and beats down basically the entire metagame. This should be represented by a rise to S.
(If we'd rank S in order, I'd say --> -->

A --> A+
Jirachi has been such a staple on so many teams lately. It's the only reliable check to Mega Gardevoir, which is huge in itself, but also has many different positive qualities. Scarf sets w/ Fire Punch are still an amazing check to Scizor, and it also checks Latias super well (which has been seeing so much usage lately, as it is probably the best 'mon in the tier atm). Even Calm Mind sets, or Z-Happy Hour sets, can be used with good success from what I have experienced, as most Scarfers in the meta are slower than base 100. Jirachi is just so versatile and has been seeing a ton of use lately for good reason, and it should be reflected by a rise with a subrank.

A --> A+
This thing is definitely way better than Celesteela and no one can tell me otherwise. This 'mon has been such an amazing glue with balance and semi-stall on the rise, as it virtually covers most physical attackers in the tier with Counter. It is also by far the best Spiker in the tier, and it can actually beat Mega Diancie because of Iron Head. With 'mons such as Weavile, Tapu Bulu, Urshifu, Scizor and Buzzwole being used a lot right now, Skarmory finds itself easily thrown onto teams since it is just such a nice check for all of them. Definitely the best A-rank 'mon currently and should imho move up.

A --> A+
Weavile has been making waves lately. Pursuit is so important in the metagame again and Weavile has been the perfect example of that. Trapping foes like Mega Gardevoir from full, as well as just forcing chip on so many 'mons atm is super nice for partners like Mega Gardevoir. You can easily slap this thing on basically every build except HO. Not to mention HDB SD sets have seen a bit of use and really aren't that bad at all, providing you hit Triple Axel (which is broken if you hit it btw).

B+ --> A-
Man this thing is good. It is just such a nice defensive glue atm for so many teams considering the prominence of Latias, Infernape and Urshifu in the metagame. It doesn't even let in much for free considering Body Slam should be standard on every set and getting a paralysis on the likes of Mega Venusaur or Celesteela really annoys them throughout the match. Offers quite some utility as well such as Heal Bell and / or Defog. Niadev and I have also experimented with Haze sets which lets you not be setup fodder for like Reuniclus (quite situational though). Been a staple lately and should be reflected with a rise.

B+ --> A-
Any Mega Venusaur balance or BO is nearly getting fucked by this thing. Z-Outrage is just such a nuke and abuses the fuck out of Rotom-Heat and Wash, Skarmory, Celesteela and choice locked Scizor. Dragon / Electric / Fire coverage is really deadly right now, and considering teams are getting bulkier and bulkier by the day, this thing just really enjoys that. Doesn't like Mega Altaria getting more traction but considering Mega Venusaur is still the preferred Mega on most teams rn it's really not that bad.

B+ --> A-
read the above post

B --> A-
Y'all how the fuck did this drop last update. This is THE Mega Venusaur switch in you all want considering it doesn't take damage from Sludge Bomb poison, as well as being a godlike win condition on a lot of Balance and Semi-Stall builds rn. Calm Mind / Psyshock / Focus Blast / Recover + Fightinium Z is sooo good and you 1v1 like every single dark too because Knock Off has reduced damage due to the Z-Crystal. Ghosts aren't really used rn (Chandelure is good, but still uncommon) so it doesn't struggle much with those. Super super good in the metagame rn and honestly should have moved up last update (instead of down, still really surprised).

B --> B+
Been using Specs Chandelure quite a bit and oh my god is it good. You take hella advantage of Infernape (especially NP sets which are THRIVING rn) and just click Overheat and Shadow Ball. Trick on the Blissey coming in. This 'mon I think has always been good since TTars left, just no one really got to use it. Pursuit usage sucks for it, but Weav doesn't kill from full if you stay in so it's a 50/50 regardless. And with all the Steel types running around, as well as abusing Mega Venusaur as a switch, Chandelure is pretty good in the meta atm.

B --> B+
The goat is better than ever. Teleport, Future Sight, fighting/fire/water check, and with the metagame really needing Infernape checks this 'mon is just in a perfect spot rn. It just offers such a nice defensive core with Pokemon in the metagame and can just pivot into so many special attackers while also checking the likes of Urshifu and use them as a momentum grab because of Teleport. This 'mon has been used quite a decent amount on ladder lately with nice success and should move up.

B- --> B
HO loses to Urshifu clicking water moves, and Feraligatr fixes that problem together with Latias. I'm getting tired of writing but Liquidation/Ice Punch/Crunch is hard to take on at +1 or +2, and considering Mega Venusaur doesn't carry Grass moves a lot of the time, it'll fish for Sludge Bomb poisons while having to take some decently powerful Crunches. Solid 'mon in the metagame and sweeps many unprepared teams.

C --> B-
Decent defogger, as well as the fact that it takes on most Infernapes and Urshifu in one slot which is quite nice. Decent Mega Gardevoir check as well, considering you can get a Toxic of fairly easily if you keep yourself healthy.


Zeraora should be ranked at C but I don't have replays f. This is the set btw

Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat / Grass Knot
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch

Fast pivot that doesn't take hazards is rlly nice. Hopefully someone will take over this nomination for me F.




I also wanted to ask people, what do they think of these two. I honestly don't really see them anymore, but I have seen some people I know use them sometime to a decent success. Never really find myself using them though, as I think they just sap too much momentum and I'd rather use Mega Altaria most of the time as a defensive Fairy. Would be cool if y'all lmk though.


Anyways, those were my thoughts. I think all these changes would clean up the lower rankings a bit, as well as making the higher rankings a tad more representative of the metagame. Have a nice day!

 

[LORD SAGIS]

To add onto that Chandelure rise reasoning. When Chandelure eventually tricks Blissey, it gains its HDB and thus is able to freely switch around uncontested for the rest of game. I should also note the SubCM set is absolutely ridiculous for passive teams to deal with. With Flame Body you are able to potentially ruin Weavile and Krookodile's day so it even has use against offensive teams.

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Hi, uhh before I leave for a few days for some personal reasons imma make an epic post. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make a fairly odd nom that most would instantly shove aside because it's fucking Golurk. But the DLC gave this mon a very neat tool that makes it very threatening. This tool in combination with the slower paced, Balance and Semi-Stall meta we are currently in allows this mon to shine in a tier full of crazy wallbreakers. I ask myself "Baker why the fuck do you do this" all the time and idk why F.

UR --> C
I wanna credit Sevelon to showing me that this demon actually exist in our corporeal dimension, and has been sitting here the entire time unnoticed. This Pokemon has been one of the lucky ghost bois to receive Poltergeist, a 110 base power ghost move that attacks the opponent if they are holding an item. This move alone allows Golurk to function as a VERY capable niche wallbreaker with a Choice Band due to having an incredibly high base attack stat of 124, a fairly unique offensive stab comination of Ghost/Ground which allows it hit most of the meta neutrally and good coverage in Stone Edge to ohko Molt and Dynamic Punch to take out Blissey/Ghost Resist in general which would otherwise switch into Banded Poltergeist. Golurk excels greatly at breaking down Balance and Stall cores such as Venu + Steela and Malt + Bronzong to allow teammates to come in and take advantage of the weakened walls by exerting more offensive pressure, or by setting up and cleaning. Me and Mareanie have been using this mon for a little bit and sadly have not grabbed any replays cause we are slow bois, but He and I can definitely vouch and say that this mon is quite insane (i'll edit this sometime in the future with some replays when i ladder with it again), but I will show you a wall of calcs that can ig show how strong this mon truly is.

Golurk Really Do Be Hittin' Different

252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 178-211 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 178-211 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 280-330 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 186-220 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 184-217 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 237-280 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 242-286 (57.2 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 258-304 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Not gonna sit here and gas up Golurk like he's some infallible deity of testosterone or nothing he honestly is because he has flaws. Pretty shit defensive typing that comes with 5 weaknesses and a very blatant weakness to pursuit trappers. But honestly here is the answer to the trappers, don't fuckin switch and hit what's in front of you. Weavile dies to Poltergeist after rocks anyway unmon. The speed i find to be an issue, but to a lesser degree. Currently the meta is really sitting on defensive cores that can handle a shit load of annoying stuff rn like Nape, Garde, Urshifu, Terrak, etc and that causes many teams to be fairly slow which gives Golurk many options to just click ghost move and deck something. Also No Guard is a double edged sword.

 

[N_Mareanie]

Finally it's time for another VR Update!! This update was mostly ironing out the B ranks and below cause they were very messy. If you have any questions about any movements, feel free to DM me or one of the council members / ask in the discord chat!

Changelog

Rises
A --> A+
A --> A+
A --> A+
B+ --> A
B+ --> A-
B+ --> A-
B --> A-
B --> B+
B --> B+
B- --> B
B- --> B
B- --> B
C --> B-
C --> B-
C --> B-
Unranked --> A-
Unranked --> B-
Unranked --> C
Unranked --> C
Unranked --> C
Unranked --> C
Unranked --> C


Drops
A+ --> A
A- --> B+
A- --> B+
B+ --> B
B+ --> B
B --> B-
B --> B-
B --> B-
B --> B-
B --> B-
B --> B-
B- --> C
B- --> C
B- --> C
B- --> C
B- --> C
B- --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked

Link to votes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SppF1T4oTsx04_dpzUKWhpsMe5vGObnDnJqJbmyLblM/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Tungdil]

I would like to nominate Tyrantrum from UR -> C.

The main Tyrantrum's role in the UU meta is to check fire, dragon, and flying threats, like Rotom-Heat, Latias and Salamence.

Description

Head Smash despite the low accuracy this is the most reliable move, and can check some threats like Rotom-Heat, and has a high chance to OHKO Diancie-Mega.
Outrage is useful to check Latias, and can 2HKO Urshifu-Rapid-Strike with a correct prediction.
Earthquake is useful against a bunch of threats. But being locked to it allows the opponent freely switch to a flying pokémon immune to ground moves.
Superpower can 2HKO Blissey and Terrakion, OHKO Bisharp, and has a high chance to OHKO Diggersby.

Choice Scarf is necessary to outspeed some really dangerous pokémon as Weavile, Starmie, and Gyarados.

Physically bulky: Beware of Buzzwole, Celesteela, Hippowdon, Sableye-Mega, Tapu Bulu, and Amoonguss which completely wall any Tyrantrum's attack. Skarmory also is a threat, be must be will not like to take a Head Smash in a switch in.

Faster Attackers: Infernape, Krookodile, and Jirachi can threat Tyrantrum, especially their Choice Scarf versions which outspeeds Tyrantrum.

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

I would like to nominate Tyrantrum from UR -> C.
[/SPOILER]

Well now that you placed this in the correct spot I wanna just tell you that this mon is horribly outclassed. You're much better off running our various other scarfers that have much better qualities offensively and defensively; not to mention our other scarfers are just much more consistent.

 

[N_Mareanie]

New VR update before DLC2:

Changelog

Drops

A+ --> A
A --> A-
A --> A-
A --> A-
A --> A-
A- --> B+
A- --> B+
A- --> B
B+ --> B
B+ --> B
B+ --> B
B --> B-
B- --> C
B- --> C
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked

Rises

Unranked --> A+
Unranked --> A
Unranked --> B+
Unranked --> B
A+ --> S-
A+ --> S-
A --> A+
A --> A+
A- --> A
A- --> A
A- --> A
A- --> A
B+ --> A-
B --> B+
B- --> B+
B- --> B
B- --> B
B- --> B
C --> B
C --> B

(explanations will come later today since I am fairly busy atm)[/SPOILER]

 

[Niadev]

New VR update before DLC2:

Changelog

Drops

A+ --> A
A --> A-
A --> A-
A --> A-
A --> A-
A- --> B+
A- --> B+
A- --> B
B+ --> B
B+ --> B
B+ --> B
B --> B-
B- --> C
B- --> C
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked
C --> Unranked

Rises

Unranked --> A+
Unranked --> A
Unranked --> B+
Unranked --> B
A+ --> S-
A+ --> S-
A --> A+
A --> A+
A- --> A
A- --> A
A- --> A
A- --> A
B+ --> A-
B --> B+
B- --> B+
B- --> B
B- --> B
B- --> B
C --> B
C --> B

(explanations will come later today since I am fairly busy atm)[/SPOILER]

I'm gonna do some of the explanations in the meanwhile

Drops:

Drops

With the departure of Mega Venusaur and Mega Altaria seemingly taking its place as the mega of balance, which hard walls any Infernape set bar Gunk Shot (which has a worse offensive MU), Infernape is no longer the balance annihilating monster it used to be. Still a very threatening Pokemon, by all means, but just not what it used to be.

With Skarmory back, Celesteela now faces much more competition as the defensive steel. Skarmory's recovery is orders of magnitude better thanks to roost, enabling Skarmory to keep healthier for far longer. Honestly, Celesteela was A- material even before Skarmory's return, as it was just too easily worn down to being 2HKOd by the stuff it's meant to check.

With Mega Venu gone, Reuniclus lost its arguably biggest niche as the only switchin to Mega Venusaur that wasn't fazed by Sludge Bomb poisons. While it is still a very threatening win condition, it fails to synergise with many common defensive Pokemon, making Reuniclus a tough fit unless you are building around it. Whenever I've tried building with it, all the teams I've made with it turned out as semi stall.

Conk all the way to B seems a little harsh, but it's certainly understandable. Frankly, there's little reason to use it over existing fighting type breakers, such as Urshifu-R, CB Buzzwole, and Infernape, while, as a Guts user, Obstagoon is just frankly better, thanks to a decent speed stat, helping negate its difficulty in switching in, and a stronger Facade. While Conkeldurr is bulky, its typing affords it little to no notable resistances, and it is not bulky to the extent it avoids a 2HKO from anything even vaguely offensive, making getting it in a struggle. This is further compounded by the fact it needs to get to survive to the end of a turn to trigger Guts in the first place. It's not even super terrifying to switch into anymore as new S- mon Buzzwole is still extremely good, with defensive sets switching into basically every Conkeldurr variant. Bulk Up wouldn't even do a whole lot for Conkeldurr as Buzzwole is hardly unknown for running Bulk Up itself, and most Buzzwole outspeed Conkeldurr anyways.

Honestly this was a bit of a surprise, given how absolutely monstrous specs is for balance to face down, but it's probably partly due to Mega Venusaur leaving, depriving Chandelure of one of its easiest ins.

Diggersby is gone, and as being the one and only thing that could call itself a counter was its sole niche, it's no surprise it's gone.

Skarmory is back, there is now literally no reason to run this as your spiker, as Skarmory outclasses it in basically every field.

Skarmory is back so the SubSD set, its only niche, is now basically useless against Skarm stall, which is probably most, if not all of it, as it just gets Whirlwinded away.

Man, I sure am good on all those sun teams. ...Where are all the sun teams?

why was this ranked lol. aegislash is gone, it can't hurt you anymore

Skarmory is back, moving on.

Rises

So somehow this has been legal for months. Thanks to Galarian Slowbro, dealing with it reliably is a much tougher prospect than normal. Many, if not all of the common Mega Slowbro counterplay methods struggle or outright lose Galarbro - Toxic is immuned, CB bulu is walled, Latias has to be Dragonium CM to beat it or else it has to win a Calm Mind war, CB Buzzwole only barely 2hkos Mega Slowbro anyways and typically doesn't run Earthquake as this is not Aegislash meta.

The bird is back, let us rejoice. So yeah, this thing is a really good answer for a lot of scary wallbreakers and sweepers, which is pretty amazing for balance teams. Its only real issue aside from its tendency to kill momentum is that it's not a particularly reliable answer to MDia which means either double defensive steel (which is... no) or a secondary non steel defensive check like Slowking, Amoonguss, Blissey or Sylveon, though SpDef can answer it fairly reliably.

Terrakion but trades power (sort of) for a better offensive MU. SD Lycanium and CB are both solid options, thanks to Tough Claws making Close Combat just a little stronger than Stone Edge. It is noticeably worse vs defensive teams, however, though this isn't as blatant with the SD set. We've been sleeping on this for a long time basically.

Buzzwole is one of the fattest and most splashable defensive walls with one set, and one of the scariest wallbreakers in the tier with another. Defensive, while now facing a little competition from Skarmory on more defensive builds, is still one of the few walls that isn't a massive momentum sink, allowing it to fit pretty easily on BO. If you can't hit this thing SE and your name isn't Terrakion, it walls your physical mon, and Band only really has one reliable switchin in the form of Hippowdon (who is only a little bit of chip away from being 2HKOd by Ice Punch). It isn't quite on the same threat level as Latias or Scizor but that's why it's not S rank. Absolute champ.

This thing has a ton of viable sets. SpDef is one of the few true counters to Mega Diancie, and is able to provide momentum via U-turn, allowing it to fit on BO and making it very splashable, Choice Scarf is pretty solid as a scarfer, being able to provide Healing Wish and U-turn support while still checking Latias, CM rocks beats the majority of defoggers and can be a solid win condition, and Z-Happy Hour is disgusting and shouldn't exist (no I'm not salty about week 4 commit shut up), with both special and physical variants.

Rocks is the best offensive rocker we have and 4 attacks is a pain to reliably check defensively, though the latter is tough to fit on teams at times. There's not much else to say about it really other than we realised it's A+ worthy again.

It is the de facto best Defogger in the tier. Nothing aside from Seismitoad can keep rocks up reliably against it, and NP Z Psychic (the move is Dream Eater btw) is a relatively threatening Pokemon. The rise of Rhyperior in NDPL is also good for it, as it makes Rotom-Heat, its main competitor for volt switching defogger, a worse defogger overall, making Rotom-Wash a much more appealing option.

With Mega Venusaur gone, MAlt has become the go to defensive mega. Defensive sets check a number of threatening Pokemon, while also being a capable win condition thanks to Refresh. Special Mega Altaria also saw some use in NDPL as a threatening attacker, threatening typical defensive answers such as Amoonguss and Skarmory. I still don't like Offensive Dragon Dance, despite no longer being the pile of absolute dogshit it used to be, but it's a workable win condition. Regardless, it has benefitted immensely from Mega Venusaur's ban and a rise to A+ in the future is not unreasonable (though it won't be for the offensive DD set I can tell you that).

Boasting solid defensive utillity, pursuit trapping capabilities and no longer being pressured into running Stone Edge for a chance at revenge killing Gyarados, scarf Krookodile is probably one of the best scarfers right now. The free slot lets it run Crunch and be a much more reliable trapper of Z move Latias.

Moltres is a defogger that is capable of being a potent offensive threat, even with no special attack investment, and is a more reliable Scizor check than Rotom-Heat check due to reliable recovery and Flame Body deterring repeated U-turns. Knock is still annoying for it, and Rotom-Heat still checks a few things Moltres doesn't (notably Flyinium Salamence) and is a generally better pivot, but as an offensive threat (aside from Nasty Plot Heattom) and defogger, Moltres is generally the superior option.

FuturePort is still great as ever, and Slowking still checks a number of threats, such as Infernape, Urshifu-R (non CB U-turn), Mega Diancie, Moltres, and Keldeo. Not much else to say really, I already made a post in the NDUU metagame thread a few weeks ago about Slowking, and not too much has changed since then. Skarm is a little annoying but a lot of breakers appreciate the chip Future Sight inflicts on Skarmory anyways.

Basically Mega Steelix but trading the volt immune and ability to reliably check Z Electrium Latias for being a more reliable Mega Diancie switch in and SD Tapu Bulu check. I still believe Mega Steelix is the overall more useful stupid high defense steel mega, but Maggron isn't far behind for the time being.

Rhyperior received a somewhat surprising amount of usage in NDPL for the first few weeks, and it's not too hard to see why. It is a rocker that walls and keeps rocks up against Moltres and Rotom-Heat, two of the tier's best defoggers, notably volt switch blocking Rotom-Heat, all while being fairly powerful. It eats basically every non water type physical attack in the tier aside from Conkeldurr's CC and CB Buzzwole's Superpower. Definitely a mon deserving a rise.

Necrozma is a pretty solid offensive rocker, being able to beat most of the tier's defoggers by virtue of its bulk, all while being able to fire off meaty Photon Geysers, cripple things with Knock Off and smack steels with a powerful Heat Wave, though it can ditch Knock or Heat Wave for a healing move for more longevity. This notably distinguishes it from the otherwise superior Nidoking, who really struggles to beat any fogger in a 1v1, as most are faster and can kill or seriously maim Nidoking.

SG Throat Spray is scary, that is all. Dislikes Rhyperior but that's why it's B and not B+.

A very solid 100+ scarfer, with a surprisingly alright defensive typing when backed by it's high natural bulk. Darkinium Z Bulk up is also pretty scary if you're not packing Buzzwole, though Buzzwole does hard wall it to oblivion and back if it is there. I've heard people talking about HDB Synthesis U-turn but I have yet to see, use it, or find a reason why I'd really want to honestly.

We were pretty harsh on it, not gonna lie. It's a solid Mega Diancie switchin, and as a wish passer it synergises very well with fire types such as Infernape, Rotom-Heat, Moltres and Alolan Marowak, as those mons abuse the shit out of steel types that want to switch into it and threaten it, all while getting healed by a decently sized Wish to bring them back up as they switch in on the steel.

And finally, . With Mega Venusaur gone, this thing is more free than ever to pivot around, cripple shit with Knock Off and generally provide solid offensive momentum. It still struggles to break much of anything but it has a much easier time just clicking Knock or Volt Switch, and it still requires support. I'd wait for N_Mareanie's edit for more details as he's used it much more than I have.

this was meant to be short :/

 

[Niadev]

N_Mareanie asked me to post VR this time around.

Changelog

New Additions
Aegislash --> S-
Alakazam --> A
Deoxys-Defense --> C
Diggersby --> A
Dragonite --> A
Hawlucha --> A+
Hippowdon --> A-
Hoopa-Unbound --> A+
Incineroar --> B-
Mandibuzz --> B-
Manectric-Mega --> A-
Mew --> A
Moltres-Galar --> B-
Ninetales-Alola --> C
Raikou --> C
Ribombee --> C
Scolipede --> B+
Shuckle --> C
Slowking-Galar --> B
Spectrier --> S
Staraptor --> A
Tornadus --> C
Victini --> S
Volcanion --> B-
Zapdos-Galar --> A-
Porygon2 --> B

Drops
Scizor S --> A+
Buzzwole S- --> A
Jirachi S- --> A+
Rotom-Heat A+ --> A
Terrakion A+ --> A
Infernape A --> A-
Salamence A --> C
Tapu Bulu A --> A-
Obstagoon A- --> B+
Steelix-Mega A- --> B+
Alomomola B+ --> B
Cobalion B+ --> B
Haxorus B+ --> B
Klefki B+ --> B
Slowbro-Galar B+ --> B-
Togekiss B+ --> B
Bronzong B --> Unranked
Chandelure B --> B-
Conkeldurr B --> B-
Crawdaunt B --> B-
Seismitoad B --> B-
Sylveon B --> B-
Doublade B- --> Unranked
Feraligatr B- --> Unranked
Jellicent B- --> C
Mantine B- --> C
Rotom-Mow B- --> Unranked
Tentacruel B- --> C
Azelf C --> Unranked
Celebi C --> Unranked
Froslass C --> Unranked
Golurk C --> Unranked
Heracross C --> Unranked
Marowak-Alola C --> Unranked
Pyukumuku C --> Unranked
Salazzle C --> Unranked

Rises
Altaria-Mega A --> S-
Krookodile A --> A+
Skarmory A --> A+
Celesteela A- --> A
Slowking A- --> A+
Dracozolt B+ --> A
Grimmsnarl B+ --> A-
Gastrodon B --> B+
Toxtricity B --> B+
Zeraora B --> B+
Ditto B- --> B
Pincurchin B- --> B
Raichu-Alola B- --> B
Swampert B- --> B+

I'll explain some of the more important ones but I'll leave the rest

Explanations

Since both Blissey and Latias left, Mega Manectric has a much easier time actually doing something in a game. We also might have been a bit too harsh on it, idk. It spams volt, fries grasses, and does electric things.


Celesteela rose mostly because its Autotomize set is very potent vs offensive teams, and it is much more freed up with Blissey gone. Defensive sets are still pretty eh though.


Sand Rush got released and it is easily our best sand abuser. Other sets such as the classic Sub Dragonium set are also effective though much rarer nowadays, hence why it's not being put in the same rank as Hippowdon, its best setter.


Mega Altaria's typing and bulk make it a fantastic defensive pivot, providing a plethora of resistances and synergising very well with many common defensive Pokemon. Defensive Dragon Dance sets are able to combine defensive utility and a wincon into one set, while also potentially acting as a cleric/status sponge, also exploiting defensive mons who can only touch it with Toxic. An overall excellent mon that has proven itself to be a cut above most of the rest of the tier in recent weeks, it more than deserved a rise to S-.


An absolutely amazing defensive typing combined with good bulk and being fairly strong even without a boosting item makes it a fantastic blanket check to a lot of Pokemon that fits on all teams (bar maybe the nonexistent stall). The utility it provides in the teambuilder is nearly unrivalled.


An incredible breaker, sweeper, even pivot, its effectiveness and set diversity more than merits S rank. Choice Band and Choice Specs are both excellent at opening holes in defensive teams, while Z Celebrate can be tough to stop.


SubDisableWisp negates all of its pursuit trappers as effective checks, while still threatening offensive teams with either Hex or Shadow Ball especially. Ghost's lack of resists (that actually beat it) and an extremely limited pool of good Normal types, much less ones that actually beat it without being crippled (Staraptor is Wisped and Disabled, crippling it, though Porygon-Z works technically) makes Spectrier an absolute menace even with a Choice Scarf Krookodile, thus deserving S rank.


Scizor was dethroned as king of NDUU partly as a result of multiple new drops limiting and hindering it (Victini and Aegislash namely). It's a bit tougher to justify as your defensive steel right now, what with Aegislash and Skarmory being as good as they are, and offensive sets don't offer enough to justify keeping it S rank. Still extremely threatening but we felt A+ is just more appropriate.


Defensive sets struggle a lot more with the introduction of Aegislash, and it fails to effectively check a number of the new drops. It can now no longer afford Ice Punch over Earthquake thanks to Aegislash, leaving it walled by Flying types, Toxic notwithstanding. Choice Band is still good but we have a lot of good Choice Band users, so its awkward to justify as a result of its poor speed tier. Still a good mon, we just felt it's not S- anymore.


With the ban of Latias and Mega Diancie Spdef sets have lost a huge amount of utillity. Scarf and offensive sets still work but offensive sets are now annoyed a fair deal by Aegislash, and dislike the huge rise in Pursuit. Z-Happy Hour can still be absolutely filthy, however. A+ seemed more appropriate for this mon now, hence its drop.


Despite being slow, having no direct switchin opportunities save for Amoonguss post Spore, defensive Mew and Slowking, the payoff for getting it in safely is more than worth it. Specs is a devastating wallbreaker, having no switchins save for Mandibuzz, who gets either Tricked or Thunderbolted. Band is also solid but is much easier to pursuit trap, and more easily crippled by Mew and Slowking. Pursuit is still limiting, however, preventing it from being any higher.


It's simply not a good Defogger anymore, and for a lot of the teams that was a big part of the reason to use it. Rhyperior and Swampert's viability have skyrocketed with the recent unbans and meta shifts, meaning its rare for it to actually be against a rocker it can actually beat. Offense has other Scizor checks now and it is no longer the uncontested best Volt spammer.


Conversely, the rise in Rhyperior and Swampert's viability and subsequent falling off of Rotom-Heat is excellent for Wash, as it beats both rather handily in a hazard off and faces much less competition for the Rotom. Rotom-Wash still retains its status of best Defogger, and is now probably up there for best volt spammer. EDIT: could have sworn blind this rose but it was already A+ so this was entirely pointless


Dragonite is good but not to the extent that Salamence isn't worth considering. Its higher speed tier in a meta infested with scarf Krookodile is just enough to keep it ranked.


Flip Turn is huge for it, enabling it to fit on Bulky Offense teams without sucking momentum and making it much easier to justify over the plethora of other bulky water/grounds. Not to mention the rising of Mega Manectric makes a volt immune more important than ever.


Aegislash, Skarmory, Rhyperior, rocks and recoil are all annoying for it. Band is still devastatingly powerful if there's no resist, but that's a big if most of the time. Choice Scarf is awkward to justify as it struggles even harder against common flying resists, and faces competition from Galarian Zapdos for base 100 scarfed physical flying, the latter revenging more stuff thanks to STAB CC.


Like Hoopa-U, it struggles to get in without pivoting, and many teams have good checks to it anyways. It is trapped much easier than Hoopa-U, however, bar Sash sets which can be a bit lacking in power.


FuturePort is still insane, and it also checks a good amount of stuff, such as non Electrium Dragonite, Hawlucha, and Alakazam, on top of the large amount of stuff it checked before.


This thing is kinda bad, I don't know how else to explain it. One turn for both screens is not good enough considering Hail hurts its own teammates, cutting a sweep short and Grimmsnarl is just a much better, much more consistent screener with Taunt.


It's a dark type that doesn't lose to Spectrier and it also checks stuff like Hoopa-U and Victini while offering pivoting support, which is pretty decent.

I may do more in another post but this took forever to write and I want it to get out sometime soon.

 

[LORD SAGIS]

N_Mareanie asked me to make a VR post so I will deliver.

S- > S

I think Aegislash is the best Pokemon in the tier. The amount of utility it provides on any team is incredible and I think its on par with woke Spectrier because its insane splashability.

A+ > B

Besides Z-Happy Hour sets its really not worth using over Aegislash and Z-Celebrate Victini is far more reliable at sweeping. Speaking of Aegislash, that thing destroys it and is on most teams at the moment. I know this is harsh but it hasn't seen much use since all the drops.

A- > A

I've found it pretty splashable as a Scarfer and it can also be a excellent wallbreaker with CB or Flyinium Z. Its high usage in UU Tour reflects this as well.

B- > C

Its outclassed by G-Slowking in most roles but it can abuse QD + QC with either Belly Drum or Nasty Plot so at least theres that.

C > B/B+

Nihilego might be walled by Aegislash but it does offer guaranteed rocks which is what it really needs to do. Meteor Beam is absolutely devastating to anything that doesn't resists it.

C > B-

While DD sets suffer competition from Dragonite. Salamence is alot better running special sets with Intimidate as a general wallbreaker with decent defensive utility. It performs this niche pretty well and it definitely feels above C for me.

UR > B-

Houndoom-Mega @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Pursuit / Nasty Plot

Mega Houndoom is awesome. Its a offensive check to Spectrier and great pre-ability that allows it to switch in Victini's STABs and trap it. Heres a Replay prove its effectiveness. I'm putting in B- because I think its better than the stuff in C.

 

[KJLX]

hello, since I played the national dex UU tour and I went to finals, Ive aquired some experienced and I ould like to post my thoughts on some mons :
first going to talk about the mons I think should move up

S->S
In my opinion, Alaria is the best pokemon in the tier. Its is really splashable, it can fit into all archetypes of types.
In Stall is can use a classic defensive role as a cleric ,or it can use a fire spin persish song, a new dlc addition.
It can have special attacing sets to with flamethower, hyper voice, roost, defog.
It can have dragon dance sets, my favorite altaria sets, when it can have dragon dance, frustration ( frustration is better than return because ditto is normally runned max happyness. It can have return, and then you have plenty of options :
Eq roost to touch fire types
Fire Blast Roost to touche skarm
Refresh Roost to have a really good MU against stall late game
Fire Blast eq because why not
It has a good ability pre mega as natural cure to be a status absorber
https://pokepast.es/eec012d0c28e34b8

but galar B>B+
With the fact that spectier is now OU, Slowking galar is an even better special wall, talking special hits like nothing else does, with having regenerator of course. It has a good defensive typing and a good offensive typing too.

B->B
Incinaroar is very good a think. It has very good options with intimidate, parting shot, knock off, toxic, overheat and u turn to be a good glue defensive mons, I know it has no recovery which is sad for a defensive mon but you can provide it wish support from the likes of jirachi, It should not be at the same rank as mons like volcanion, seismitoad and alolan muk.

C>B
Really good rocker, has meteor beam now to be a very good breaker and can be played grassium z. It has very good spe def so it can come into a lot of special threats. I think its as good as cobaltium as a rocker so Im putting him in the same rank as him.

UR>B-
This mon is really good and doent need to be on TRs team.
Firstly, Its a cheat code vs HO, just trick rooms to ouspeed every fast glass cannons and one shots them, and his phisical bulk means he can easily set up TR.
Lastly, Its a good breaker because it has good attack with beast boost to get up his attack after a kill.

regidraco and glastrier too ( I cant put their image ) : UR>C
TR is defenitly viable and has been used a lot in tour. The addition of regidraco and hatterenne makes TR a lot better as it was. Regidraco can one shot everything that isnt fairy types and the other offensive mons exept crawdant take advantage of it.

Mons I think should be lower :

S>S-
Imo he is worse than aegeslash and Mega Altaria. I know that scarf, banded and z celebrate can be devestating, but I just dont think It fits in as much teams as the two belove, its not as flexible, as a glue mon as the other 2.

A->B
Sharpedo is nice on ho, but thats just all. Now we have better revenge killers, like diggersby and victini (scarfed), and its only viable on HO. And its not like hes a essential there too.

B+>B
Breelom isnt very good in my optinion. Its bad against HO, struggles against really bulky builds, at least it has spore and mach punch I guess. But you cant put that B+ when conk is B-.

B>C
imo nidoqueen is pretty much outclassed by Nidoking, and theres not much reason to use it rn. It has better bulk but then its ovoiding 2ockoes.

 

[N_Mareanie]

Hawlucha has been banned! Will be removed from OP (along with Spectrier, which rose to OU).

 

[N_Mareanie]

Update Time!

Rises
Altaria-Mega S- --> S
Tapu Bulu A- --> A
Zapdos-Galar A- --> A+
Zeraora B+ --> A-
Slowking-Galar B --> A-
Chandelure B- --> B
Nihilego C --> B-
Melmetal Unranked --> S

Drops
Jirachi A+ --> A-
Krookodile A+ --> A
Scizor A+ --> A
Alakazam A --> A-
Dragonite A --> A-
Sharpedo-Mega A- --> B+
Starmie A- --> B+
Aggron-Mega B+ --> B-
Bisharp B+ --> B
Breloom B+ --> B
Obstagoon B+ --> B
Scolipede B+ --> B
Empoleon B --> B-
Mandibuzz B- --> C
Muk-Alola B- --> C

Rises
Altaria-Mega has once again established itself as one of the best Pokémon in the tier, solidifying its position as a clear-cut S rank. Its amazing bulk, support and sweeping capabilities are unmatched in todays metagame, and certain trends such as Scizor falling off helps it a ton.
Galarian Zapdos has established itself as one of the best breakers in meta, which tons of variety in its sets, be it Scarf, Band or Bulk Up Fly-Z / Fight-Z
One of the best special walls in the tier due to amazing special bulk + regenerator. Great coverage and solid physical bulk alongside is very great.
Already established itself as one of the bets Pokémon in the meta between great sets like Band, Protective Pads + Toxic or Acid Armor. Great power, great bulk and great typing all go a long way in this meta

Drops
Lots of metagame trends are very much against Jirachi's favour rn, be it Victini, Aegislash, Melmetal or something else.
Requires too much team support to maintain its position as a solidified A ranked Pokémon.
lol melmetal dropped
lol galarian zapdos dropped
Very inconsistent at sweeping with many physical walls being in the tier (Skarm, Melm, pert, skarm)
no more spectrier!


Just want to thank everyone for this year, National Dex UU could not have come as far as it has today without you guys and the meta will be a year old starting somewhere in at the start of January, and I could not be more grateful!
Have a happy new year everyone in a few days!

 

[Mirbro]

Now that Victini is gone I would like to write a short post about some Pokémon that can benefit or detriment for this ban:

Rises:

A- -> A/A+
I think Infernape is a really good Pokémon in the tier with versatile sets. It can run NP Z-Move to break through many teams or physical attacker with SD Z-Move or CB. Firstly, you need to scout the set specificially and no many things can tank both special and physical ones without boostings (Slowking and Alomomola if no Focus Blast or grass move type). Infernape can take Victini's altar as CB U-Turn Pokémon easily. I would go for A/A+ with it.

A- -> A/A+
Z-Conversion Porygon may be the new Z-Celebrate Victini. Its great special stats and its boosts when Z-Convsersion, makes it really good. I think it can replace Z-Move Victini in many teams although Stored Power will be missed.

UR -> C
I think Umbreon is one of the typical underrating cases. During Victini era, it was a good counter to Z-Celebrate set (in that cases I would positionate Umbreon at B-/B). However, right now is not that good but Wish Passing + Foul Play helps a ton against some offensive special threats. It also serves as a check for special defensive Aegislash and Chandelure.


Drops

C -> C-
AV Mamoswine has been in the ladder lately to give some speed control with Ice Shard and with Thick Fat to check/counter some sets of Victini. However, Victini leaving the tier, Mamswine will drop in usage as it has not big utility against great threats of the tier.

C -> C-
I can see Haze Mantine as a good Z-Celebrate Victini check and defogger and with Victini leaving, dropping in usage. It is not bad at all, but too passive for a tier with so many wallbreakers.

Doubts


Its usage and viability will depend on CB-Infernape, Scizor and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike some of which I will comment below. If these last Pokémon increase their usage, Alomomola will be used to check/counter them. In stall, I am pretty sure its viability will be maintained.


CB or CS Urshifu give you wallbreaking or speed control with momentum (U-Turn). Both sets are really good atm and if you pair it with Future Sight Slowking/Slowbro-galar, then you can practically faint anything.


CB Scizor and, at lower extent, SD Scizor, can increase its usage now that the biggest Fire Pokémon in the tier is gone. Moreover, in some teams in which Infernape is run as Z-Move NP, Scizor can replace CB Victini with ease.


Mega-Altaria defensive sets to check Victini will be practically gone with more offensive ones. I think it will keep at S though.

Thanks for your attention and cya Pokémaniacs!

 

[pomfpomfpluff]

Gonna make two noms and talk about some noms that Mirbro made.

C --> B-

Basically just for Specs/Nasty Plot Hoopa-U and Specs/Life Orb Aegislash, it does some other cool things vs other less prevelant special attackers such as Nihilego (mainly power herb) and Raichu-Alola but the main selling point is being the most consistent pursuit trapper when it comes to those two.

Main reason for why I want it to go up is because of how common the combination of Slowking + hard hitter has become. Since muk is one of the few mons that can switch into, threaten Slowking + a large chunk of mons Slowking wants to tag into and Pursuit trap Slowking if it hard switches fearing Knock Off. It also sits on Glowking since it doesn't get teleport and sits even more on Porygon 2. All of this goes down the drain if it gets Scald burnt ofc, but realistically speaking you will atleast cripple something.

Lastly it does require Wish support unless you're using Recycle + Gluttony (which sucks cuz no 51% Poison Jab) but I don't think that requiring team support is enough of a knock against it, since B- is already filled with mons heavily reliant on team support and mons who don't do much aside from their specific role (cough cough Magneton). Even though Muk's role is specific and it requires some team support, it's not to the degree that it should be ranked alongside even more specific mons like Quagsire and the HO gang.

UR --> C

Not too sure why this isn't ranked, given that it does enough to justify being used over Quagsire in the few situations Quagsire gets used. I assume it's because stall is niche, and since Pyukumuku is a niche version of a stall exclusive mon it warants not being ranked, but like, Pyukumuku still has advantages over Quagsire. It walls a lot of what Quagsire walls, albeit worse, while also walling a bunch of nasty plot mons Quagsire can't touch. Obviously Quagsire is still better, but that doesn't mean thar Pyukumuku is specific enough to not be ranked.

Also curious about why Mega-Sableye isn't ranked whatsoever? I think I may be missing something cuz I can't find anything about it whatsoever.

Now to the Noms Mirbro made

UR -> C
I think Umbreon is one of the typical underrating cases. During Victini era, it was a good counter to Z-Celebrate set (in that cases I would positionate Umbreon at B-/B). However, right now is not that good but Wish Passing + Foul Play helps a ton against some offensive special threats. It also serves as a check for special defensive Aegislash and Chandelure.

Basically checks the same things Muk does but worse, albeit while having reliable recovery. Kinda sucky HP and no offense whatsoever limits it a lot, but it does what it needs to do and does compress the heal beller into that package so I guess ranking it would be a good idea.

Its usage and viability will depend on CB-Infernape, Scizor and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike some of which I will comment below. If these last Pokémon increase their usage, Alomomola will be used to check/counter them. In stall, I am pretty sure its viability will be maintained.

Will be meh at checking what it's supposed to check as long as Slowking is in the tier, but it does check a bunch of different mons so I'm not very sure about where to place it either. I guess you could drop it a bit because of how Future Sight Slowking can take advantage of it, which can make it feel like a dead teamslot in those matchups.

C -> C-
AV Mamoswine has been in the ladder lately to give some speed control with Ice Shard and with Thick Fat to check/counter some sets of Victini. However, Victini leaving the tier, Mamswine will drop in usage as it has not big utility against great threats of the tier.

C -> C-
I can see Haze Mantine as a good Z-Celebrate Victini check and defogger and with Victini leaving, dropping in usage. It is not bad at all, but too passive for a tier with so many wallbreakers.

I think Mamo is fine where it currently is, but Mantine is so specific that I honestly think it could get Unranked. Minor rant incoming

While it does compress a lot of things into one package (defog + reliable recovery + bulky water), it's so meh at doing what it's supposed to do that you're usually better dedicating 2 slots to those roles instead of using this offensively incapable momentum sponge. For an example, you're often much better off using of Rotom-Wash as a defoger on offensive teams and a combination of A bulky water + suicune check + defoger on stall teams. Only archetype I see this being usable on is balance, since you have less team slots to work with when it comes to building a defensive core, but then again what does this thing even core well with?

Finally, it also has minor 4MSS, since it has to run scald + defog + roost, it then has to chose between toxic to actually deal damage, haze to not get pp stalled by Suicune (the mon it's supposed to counter) and Air Slash to not be a free switchin for Breloom.

Ok that's pretty much it, if and when Slowking gets banned I'll probably have completely different opinions than I do now.

Adding something way after I posted this cuz double posting is a crime.

B+ --> A-/A

Not a big shocker given that this thing had a banger of a world cup performance and has basically summented itself as one of the most consistent rockers in the tier, since it's the only water type in the tier with access to rocks + flip turn. It does have a minor problem in deciding between eq/scald/toxic/yawn/roar in the last two slots, but you can usually build your team around the fact that sr/flip turn/scald/eq pert can't touch grass types for an example. A- may be a bit more realistic, but it outshone every mon in the tier in terms of winrate and only lost to Malt in terms of usage by 1 use. I think A rank is within reach if Swampert continues this amazing streak next week.

Edit: Some typos and went more in detail on why Mantine sucks.
Edit 2: Swampert paragraph after WC.

 

[N_Mareanie]

VR Update!

Rises

• 
  S- to S: Aegislash has cemented itself as one of the most defining threats in the metagame. Between its extreme versatility, being able to run many successful sets (SD, mixed, SubTox, special attacker) and great defensive typing that allows it to pivot into many great threats in the metagame, has allowed it to rise to S.
• A- to A: Very successful on VoltTurn teams, as due to higher power than Zeraora, fire coverage for the likes of Amoonguss and Buzzwole, as well as Intimidate to kepe certain Pokemon like Scizor in check better, this Pokemon has set a definite great niche that makes competition from Zeraora a lot less than one might think.
• 
  A- to A: Ever since Blissey left, the meta has been craving a special tank, and Galarian Slowking as about as close we'll ever get. Checking many great threats (basically any special attacker) is super valuable right now. AV sets with great coverage is thriving right now. Even the Pursuit trappers can't really switch in to a Sludge Bomb that can poison and cripple.
• 
  A- to A: Volt-immune, high speed, Knock Off and Volt Switch makes this Pokemon wanted on many teams. HDB sets are extremely hard to kill and are just extremely consistent. The potential for other sets such as Bulk Up, Calm Mind or the likes of it can also definitely be used due to Z-Moves, though don't reach the same consistency as the HDB set.
• 
  B+ to A: Having insane amounts of usage in WC, it only makes sense for this to rise two subranks. Great role compression due to Stealth Rock, Electric immune (which is great with Mega Manectric and Zeraora being as good as they are rn). Also a great Melmetal check. Flip Turn makes this thing not as passive as it would normally be, which is just simply amazing and thus finds itself on many teams.
• 
  B to B+: Popular scarfer atm, due to Z-Happy Hour Jirachi is gaining more traction again. Abuses Swampert and Slowking builds which is great, and Bulk Up + Iron Tail sets can put in a lot of work, especially since Buzzwole is not getting used as much.
• 
  B- to B: Huge threat on HO teams with the dual dance set. Underranked at first.
• 
  B- to B+: The best offensive Stealth Rocker in the tier rn. Meteor Beam + Rocks is simply amazing and can dent a lot of teams that choose to go with Skarmory / Celesteela as their steel-type for their team.
• 
  B- to B+: Sludge Bomb + Scald cripples every check and you take hits. Need I say more?
• Unranked to A: CM + Willo + Hex sets have insane sweeping potential, and the fact that Mega Sableye has a good matchup vs pretty much most defensive hazard setter is great rn, especially when you consider how much Swampert and Skarmory are being used.
• 
  Unranked to C: Stall is getting used more and experimented with, and as such so is Pyuk, deserving a small jump into C rank.

Drops

• 
  A to A-: Extremely hard to fit on teams and does not have the consistency. Can be pivotted around easily rn.
• 
  A to A-: Dracozolt isn't used much, and neither is Sand, and with Swampert, Rhyperior and Hippowdon all being really common Dracozolt has a hard time spamming its best move.
• 
  A to A-: Swampert usage fucks over the Defog variants hard. NP sets are decent, but struggle with certain matchups and often drop Pain Split for HP Grass, meaning you get crippled really easily.
• A to B+: just use gapdos
• 
  A to A-: Mega Altaria, Skarmory and Aegislash all being top tier just does not do well for our tapu.
• 
  A- to B+: HO is mid, which is the only playstyle Grimmsnarl is used on, thus it drops as a result.
• 
  B+ to B: see Grimmsnarl (also lol Melmetal in the tier)
• 
  B+ to B: Has a hard time being used over other CM Psychics like Galarian Slowbro, as those just take better advantage of metagame trends. Reuni is still a fine pokemon, just finds itself having a hard time being put onto teams.
• 
  B+ to B: Has to be put in perfect situations to sweep and even then often fails to do so. Aegi/Skarm/Melm usage doesn't do well for this mon and if you run HDB SD sets you're just not doing any damage. Can still put in work, just doesn't have the consistency to stay B+.
• B+ to B: see Mimikyu
• B+ to B: This mon could have potentially stayed B+, but low usage and better Steel (Melm, Skarm) or Ground types (Swampert) available makes it hard to justify this thing. It's not even a great check to Mega Mane and Zera due to Fire & Fighting weakness.
• 
  B to B-: Hard outclassed by Galarian Zapdos on HO teams, and Weavile is 9/10 times better on most teams as a strong Knocker with prio.
• B to B-: Bad.
• 
  B to B-: HO isn't common and thus this sees not a lot of use, thus it drops
• 
  B to B-: Use Skarmory as your steel spiker.
• 
  B to B-: Washtom, Skarm, Buzzwole and friends don't really bode well for our thick mammoth.
• 
  B to B-: Really inconsistent playstyle and AloChu rarely ever gets the chance to set up due to its frailty.
• 
  B to Unranked: no more spectrier, no more p2
• 
  B- to C: use literally any other fighting type in the tier
• B- to Unranked: no one uses this, and why should they?
• 
  B- to C: no more spect or tini, less reason to use this. great weav check but knock off just cripples this thing sooo much and really holds back how much this thing can do in a game.
• 
  B- to C: outside of having a better matchup vs washtom as a rocker, literally use swampert.
• C to Unranked: use mew.
• 
  C to Unranked: hard counters watershifu but so do 10 other mons.
• 
  C to Unranked: passive as fuck, and see jellicent.
• 
  C to Unranked: oh if only mmane and zera weren't top tier

 

[Torrentblazing]

I don't see this mon talked about at all but I'm finding chesnaught really solid. I don't know where it would be in terms of viability but with a little status ailment support, it is able to leech seed and spikey shield much of the physical pokes in the tier. It beats swampert reliably throughout a game and uses it to set up spikes. It completely destroys Krookodile by not only finding an opportunity to set up spikes but also healing off any damage it can do with drain punch ( 0 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 206-246 (62.2 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO this assumes no intimidate because it is a counter). It also beats subtoxic agislash if its only attacking move is shadow ball due to bulletproof (tho with my current set I have to hit it with leech before it gets a sub).
I'm not a top player so if someone could fill me in on why its not good, I would love to see it but it feels weird that such a good spiker is not even ranked

 

[Mirbro]

First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts about a missing Pokémon. Although in paper Chesnaught may seem really good as it can check some A/A+ Pokémon in the tier, it fails to complete its main functions.

If you use it as your main Spiker, it does not beat the main entry hazard controllers of the tier such as MSableye, Skarmory, MAltaria just to mention some of them. Besides that, its special frailty and the lack of a good movepool to be a good wincon or wallbreaker makes it not a good option in many teams. Nonetheless, it can have some niche as you said against Aegislash setting up Spikes and against some of the Pokémon of the tier. I encourage you to build a team around it and share some replays showcasing its capabilities.

 

[Torrentblazing]

https://pokepast.es/3e45b445a7ef323c
This is the team I have been using it with. Unfortunately, I do not have any replays with it and tbh I am only about 250th on ladder so I'm not really sure if my replays will be any quality.

 

[pomfpomfpluff]

I don't see this mon talked about at all but I'm finding chesnaught really solid. I don't know where it would be in terms of viability but with a little status ailment support, it is able to leech seed and spikey shield much of the physical pokes in the tier. It beats swampert reliably throughout a game and uses it to set up spikes. It completely destroys Krookodile by not only finding an opportunity to set up spikes but also healing off any damage it can do with drain punch ( 0 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 206-246 (62.2 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO this assumes no intimidate because it is a counter). It also beats subtoxic agislash if its only attacking move is shadow ball due to bulletproof (tho with my current set I have to hit it with leech before it gets a sub).
I'm not a top player so if someone could fill me in on why its not good, I would love to see it but it feels weird that such a good spiker is not even ranked

The topic of whether or not Chesnaught's numerous flaws (which Mirbro summarised nicely) are made up for by the decent amount of unique upsides it has is pretty interesting imo. So I though'd I'd go over some of the pros and cons chesnaught had and see which mons in the metagame it deals well with and which ones it struggles against.

But for starters what does Chesnaught even do? What is it's role in the current metagame? Well it's a defensive Spiker that with useful resistances such as Water, Electric, Dark, Grass, Rock and Ground and also a useful immunity to Spore like moves. It also has a useful ability in Bulletproof, basically meaning that most ball, bullet and bomb moves (weird ikr) don't deal damage to Chesnaught. It's main drawbacks are it's Fairy and Flying weaknesses holding it back against most of the foggers in the tier, it's stab moves letting dangerous pokemon like Chandelure, Mega Altaria, Mega Sableye and Aegislash in for free and it's reliability on synthesis and leech seed for recovery making it terrible in drawn out games.


Pros

Chesnaught has a few pretty unique pros thanks to those useful resistances I mentioned earlier. Resisting Dark, Water, Electric and Rock is pretty unique amongst most of the tier, especially compared to it's fellow spikers. These resistances lets it stonewall (calc's bellow) and set up spikes vs Amoonguss, Technician Breloom, Calm Mind Keldeo (bar any burn misshaps), Crawdaunt, any Zarude variant, Rhyperior (bar any toxic misshaps) and Krookodile. It's also a decent check against some of the bulkier water types like Alomomola, Swampert and Rotom-Wash. This is obviously not naming all the mons it checks but if I did that we'd be here all day.

It's a pretty good fit on more balance like teams since it can easily stack up multiple layers of spikes against more offensive teams while falling back on it's other bulky teammates to deal with the mons it hates facing. It's passivity makes it a decent fit for more balance teams, since those kinda of teams can pretty easily cover Chesnaughts weaknesses with revenge killers, trappers and walls.

It also has some insane role compression, capable of filling in the spiker and grass type role on balance teams that feature a Fire-Water-Grass core.

Calc's

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Hydro Vortex (180 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 255-300 (67.4 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Meanwhile you ohko back: 0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crawdaunt: 312-368 (116.8 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (23.3 - 23.3% recoil)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 227-269 (60 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 130-154 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- 53.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 175-208 (46.2 - 55%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Chesnaught 2hkos back after life orb recoil: 0 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 102-121 (39 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Amoonguss Clear Smog vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 120-144 (31.7 - 38%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Cons

Might've realised how I said "without [insert status here] shenadigans" here a few times in the pro's section, well truth is this thing despises status. It's basically a passive mon that can't hurt passive teams, which also dies pretty easily against those passive teams thanks to low pp and unreliable healing move. Against those same passive teams it also struggles setting up spikes given that most stall teams run a flying type Defogger + Mega Sableye, resulting in Chesnaught's job becoming borderline impossible to fulfill.

It struggles against a lot of the best pokemon and strategies in the metagame. Being weak to Psychic means that Slowking + Any mon Chesnaught'd naturally check pretty much results in Chesnaught being dead weight against those kinds of teams. Being free setup bait for Altaria and Sub + Toxic or SD Aegislash is also troublesome, given that those threats can maticulously break appart most fat squads with propper team support unless those fatter teams run specific countermeasures just to make up for the lack mons Chesnaught Threatens. Chesnaught in general doesn't do well against a lot of the better mons in the tier, it does terribly vs all of the S gang and vs most of the A+ gang

Chesnaught in general Struggles against a lot of bulkier builds. Something as simple as the backbone of a BO team can make it useless, let alone the much more consistent cores of Balance and don't even get me started on Stall and Especially Semi-Stall.

It also faces stiff competition from Skarmory on Balance teams, since unlike Chesnaught, Skarmory has a really good matchup vs most of the metagame and is far easier to build around. Meanwhile Mew has basically summented itself as the spiker of offensive teams. Neither of these mons have as crippling drawbacks as Chesnaught.

Finally it also struggles with fitting everything it wants into it's moveset. Drain Punch + Spikes + Synthesis are all necessary so that it can actually fulfill it's job, but it also wants Wood Hammer to immediately threaten water types, leech seed for extra recovery and toxic so that it's not deadweight against some of the foggers it freely lets in.



Is it viable?

I'll let people figure that out on their own, but in my opinion I think calling it viable is a pretty big stretch until Galarian-Zapdos and Slowking get banned. Those two are in my opinion the biggest reasons for why this thing is bad. With them gone Chesnaught can go from a mon that struggles vs most well built teams to a mon that struggles vs most fat teams. It'd still have some pretty big flaws holding it back, but it'd probably still be a niche pick on balance teams not using Mega Altaria.


Edit: My Dumbass forgot about the calc's despite me literally writing down "calc's bellow" as a reminder :<. Also fixed some typos.
​

 

[Torrentblazing]

The topic of whether or not Chesnaught's numerous flaws (which Mirbro summarised nicely) are made up for by the decent amount of unique upsides it has is pretty interesting imo. So I though'd I'd go over some of the pros and cons chesnaught had and see which mons in the metagame it deals well with and which ones it struggles against.

But for starters what does Chesnaught even do? What is it's role in the current metagame? Well it's a defensive Spiker that with useful resistances such as Water, Electric, Dark, Grass, Rock and Ground and also a useful immunity to Spore like moves. It also has a useful ability in Bulletproof, basically meaning that most ball, bullet and bomb moves (weird ikr) don't deal damage to Chesnaught. It's main drawbacks are it's Fairy and Flying weaknesses holding it back against most of the foggers in the tier, it's stab moves letting dangerous pokemon like Chandelure, Mega Altaria, Mega Sableye and Aegislash in for free and it's reliability on synthesis and leech seed for recovery making it terrible in drawn out games.


Pros

Chesnaught has a few pretty unique pros thanks to those useful resistances I mentioned earlier. Resisting Dark, Water, Electric and Rock is pretty unique amongst most of the tier, especially compared to it's fellow spikers. These resistances lets it stonewall (calc's bellow) and set up spikes vs Amoonguss, Technician Breloom, Calm Mind Keldeo (bar any burn misshaps), Crawdaunt, any Zarude variant, Rhyperior (bar any toxic misshaps) and Krookodile. It's also a decent check against some of the bulkier water types like Alomomola, Swampert and Rotom-Wash. This is obviously not naming all the mons it checks but if I did that we'd be here all day.

It's a pretty good fit on more balance like teams since it can easily stack up multiple layers of spikes against more offensive teams while falling back on it's other bulky teammates to deal with the mons it hates facing. It's passivity makes it a decent fit for more balance teams, since those kinda of teams can pretty easily cover Chesnaughts weaknesses with revenge killers, trappers and walls.

It also has some insane role compression, capable of filling in the spiker and grass type role on balance teams that feature a Fire-Water-Grass core.

Calc's

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Hydro Vortex (180 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 255-300 (67.4 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Meanwhile you ohko back: 0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crawdaunt: 312-368 (116.8 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (23.3 - 23.3% recoil)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 227-269 (60 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 130-154 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- 53.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 175-208 (46.2 - 55%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Chesnaught 2hkos back after life orb recoil: 0 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 102-121 (39 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Amoonguss Clear Smog vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 120-144 (31.7 - 38%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Cons

Might've realised how I said "without [insert status here] shenadigans" here a few times in the pro's section, well truth is this thing despises status. It's basically a passive mon that can't hurt passive teams, which also dies pretty easily against those passive teams thanks to low pp and unreliable healing move. Against those same passive teams it also struggles setting up spikes given that most stall teams run a flying type Defogger + Mega Sableye, resulting in Chesnaught's job becoming borderline impossible to fulfill.

It struggles against a lot of the best pokemon and strategies in the metagame. Being weak to Psychic means that Slowking + Any mon Chesnaught'd naturally check pretty much results in Chesnaught being dead weight against those kinds of teams. Being free setup bait for Altaria and Sub + Toxic or SD Aegislash is also troublesome, given that those threats can maticulously break appart most fat squads with propper team support unless those fatter teams run specific countermeasures just to make up for the lack mons Chesnaught Threatens. Chesnaught in general doesn't do well against a lot of the better mons in the tier, it does terribly vs all of the S gang and vs most of the A+ gang

Chesnaught in general Struggles against a lot of bulkier builds. Something as simple as the backbone of a BO team can make it useless, let alone the much more consistent cores of Balance and don't even get me started on Stall and Especially Semi-Stall.

It also faces stiff competition from Skarmory on Balance teams, since unlike Chesnaught, Skarmory has a really good matchup vs most of the metagame and is far easier to build around. Meanwhile Mew has basically summented itself as the spiker of offensive teams. Neither of these mons have as crippling drawbacks as Chesnaught.

Finally it also struggles with fitting everything it wants into it's moveset. Drain Punch + Spikes + Synthesis are all necessary so that it can actually fulfill it's job, but it also wants Wood Hammer to immediately threaten water types, leech seed for extra recovery and toxic so that it's not deadweight against some of the foggers it freely lets in.



Is it viable?

I'll let people figure that out on their own, but in my opinion I think calling it viable is a pretty big stretch until Galarian-Zapdos and Slowking get banned. Those two are in my opinion the biggest reasons for why this thing is bad. With them gone Chesnaught can go from a mon that struggles vs most well built teams to a mon that struggles vs most fat teams. It'd still have some pretty big flaws hbolding it back, but it'd probably still be a niche pick on balance teams not using Mega Altaria.


Edit: My Dumbass forgot about the calc's despite me literally writing down "calc's bellow" as a reminder :<. Also fixed some typos.
​

I have never run synthesis specifically so that if a galar zapdos comes in, and I know it's scarf/banded, I get a free 36% and a free switch to a check (through leech + spikey sheild). Unfortunately, this limits my item to leftovers which weakens the swampert matchup which is chestnuaght's most common entry point. I also have started to run earthquake over drain punch to capitalize on aegislash. It has a good surprise factor(tho that really is not a good measure of viability) the calc against subtoxic aegislash is below. This does cripple it against many other critical matchups such as Urshifu-r. I think that if someone could get rocky helmet to work this mon would be viable as that would allow it to consistently chip swampert, beat physical and some special variants of aegslash, and stall out non-brave bird variants of skarmory, Ithink these 3 are common enough to be good entry points but obvously there are more such as Amoongus and Krookodile. This would also let it act as a sort of anti-volt-turn poke as it resists volt switch and punishes u-turn with nasty 29% passive damage (if spikey shield is predicted right) not to mention the hazards. A quick end note if a Ddance mon is setting up in front of chesnaught and they do not have leftovers, every turn they take 12% every turn due to leech seed, if they go for 2 ddances and then use a contact move like say return for mega altaria or outrage for Haxorus and you predict with a spikey shield, the ddance sweeper is at 52% hp which means if you are running the rocky helmet set with leech (I know its a bit hard to fit), the ddance poke kills chesnaught at 35% which is in range of many of the strong priority options in the teir such as weavile or CB siccor.

( 0 Atk Chesnaught Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 264-312 (81.4 - 96.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
and ( 0 Atk Chesnaught Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 114-136 (35.1 - 41.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)

(Urshifu-Rapid-Strike. 0 Atk Chesnaught Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 76-90 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- 92.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock)

(I know including stealth rock is a bit misleading but it is even better when it is able to set up its own hazards anyway (spikes) and hazard stacking really helps its damage)

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 244 HP / 196+ Def Chesnaught: 67-79 (17.7 - 20.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Swampert Flip Turn vs. 244 HP / 196+ Def Chesnaught: 23-27 (6 - 7.1%) --(this actually adds up a lot with spikes/hazards)

252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Chesnaught: 149-176 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Torrentblazing]

But yea it loses hard to mega sableye

 

[pomfpomfpluff]

I have never run synthesis specifically so that if a galar zapdos comes in, and I know it's scarf/banded, I get a free 36% and a free switch to a check (through leech + spikey sheild). Unfortunately, this limits my item to leftovers which weakens the swampert matchup which is chestnuaght's most common entry point. I also have started to run earthquake over drain punch to capitalize on aegislash. It has a good surprise factor(tho that really is not a good measure of viability) the calc against subtoxic aegislash is below.

I would definitely advise against running Spiky Shield, Leech Seed and Earthquake on the same moveset. Not only can you only fit one out of the three necessary moves, which hinders in certain matchups like Wood Hammer-less chesnaught losing vs cm Keldeo and most water types in general, Drain Punch-less losing vs Bisharp and most steel types in general and the lack of synthesis hurts in drawn out matchups, which is not a good thing because the teams Chesnaught finds itself on do usually drag the game out for a long time. While Gzap is quite a prevelant mon, ditching half of Chesnaught's utility in order to check one mon, which you should have another wall for anyway, is not worth it.

The problem with using Chesnaught as a check to any Aegislash set is that it does terribly against every variant. The sub toxic or sub tect calc's don't matter because Aegislash clicks toxic and then either clicks King's Shield or Sub afterwards, while SD ohkos you at +4 with Ghostium Z boosted Shadow Claw. And there's no counterplay you can do either, as you will never get it into Blade Form without dying first. And don't even get me started on the fully special sets which run flash cannon, those sets just beat you down since again, only 8 Synthesis pp.

I think that if someone could get rocky helmet to work this mon would be viable as that would allow it to consistently chip swampert, beat physical and some special variants of aegslash, and stall out non-brave bird variants of skarmory, Ithink these 3 are common enough to be good entry points but obvously there are more such as Amoongus and Krookodile.

Even if it could viably run helmet Chesnaught would still not be good. Swampert clicks toxic on you and you're suddenly not staying in vs anything, meanwhile Skarmory is definitely not a valid entrypoint since it almost wants you to waste your spikes pp so that you eventually lose the hazard war. Another problem is that Leech Seed only has 16 pp, so in those drawn out balance games where'd you'd expect Skarmory to thrive in you don't even stall anything out.

This would also let it act as a sort of anti-volt-turn poke as it resists volt switch and punishes u-turn with nasty 29% passive damage (if spikey shield is predicted right) not to mention the hazards. A quick end note if a Ddance mon is setting up in front of chesnaught and they do not have leftovers, every turn they take 12% every turn due to leech seed, if they go for 2 ddances and then use a contact move like say return for mega altaria or outrage for Haxorus and you predict with a spikey shield, the ddance sweeper is at 52% hp which means if you are running the rocky helmet set with leech (I know its a bit hard to fit), the ddance poke kills chesnaught at 35% which is in range of many of the strong priority options in the teir such as weavile or CB siccor.

The resistance to electric could not matter less when Chesnaught really only beats one of the Volt-Turners, that being Zeraora. Rotom-Wash wins in the longterm with Pain-Split, Toxic/Willo-Wisp and Volt Switch chip, Mega-Manectric clicks Flamethrower twice or overheat once and you're dead, Rotom-Heat just clicks Overheat and Toxtricity is far too strong to be checked by Chesnaught.

Also Mega-Altaria getting chipped could not matter less if it just gets +6 vs Chesnaught and then sweeps, since every Mega-Altaria variant runs Roost. I also don't see how you do well against any of the other dd sweepers either, if they just click a flying move to kill you turn 1 and then switch your whole gameplan is just done and even if they use you as a setup opportunity nobody will click dd twice while leeched vs a Chesnaught with an unrevealed item. So either way they kill Chesnaught and then switch out on the easily telegraphed revenge kill attempt and now you just lost 1 mon and gained nothing back.

Overall I still don't see how any of these changes from the norm make Chesnaught even somewhat viable.​