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Ubers National Dex Ubers Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter entrocefalo
- Start date
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 56+ Def Groudon-Primal: 120-144 (29.7 - 35.7%) -- approx. 25.8% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Groudon-Primal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal in Harsh Sunshine: 848-1002 (178.9 - 211.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Running Overheat on Defensive
can live a Double Iron Bash and OHKO back.
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Water: 144-172 (32.4 - 38.7%) -- approx. 99.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 168-198 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- approx. 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 72 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 160-188 (40.3 - 47.3%) -- approx. 3HKO
Switching between these 3 and stalling out Trick Room (and then KOing with a faster mon like
or Close Combat 
) works too
0 SpA Groudon-Primal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal in Harsh Sunshine: 848-1002 (178.9 - 211.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Running Overheat on Defensive
can live a Double Iron Bash and OHKO back.252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Water: 144-172 (32.4 - 38.7%) -- approx. 99.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 168-198 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- approx. 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 72 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 160-188 (40.3 - 47.3%) -- approx. 3HKO
Switching between these 3 and stalling out Trick Room (and then KOing with a faster mon like
or Close Combat ) works too
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Koraidon @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Fire / Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Scale Shot
- Low Kick
- Flare Blitz
nobody has posted about this yet and i feel like we need to talk about kora. in the latest DLC it got scale shot, which honestly pushes it over the edge.
before, koraidon's checks used to be stuff like hooh, fairyceus and certain zygarde tera types. all of these could be broken in some way but by compromising something else: running outrage to kill hooh made you very exploitable after and dragonium meant no tera, which in turn meant you couldn't rely on flame charge to break fairy, leaving you with either another wall or making you easy to revenge kill by forgoing flame charge for flare blitz. if you ran sd + flame charge without dragonium hooh would check you pretty well (not a surefire check with lo but still pretty good), while choice sets were prediction reliant and easy to abuse by something like xern.
now with scale shot though, hooh is actually not an issue anymore. a 4-hit scale shot almost kills hooh, while a 5-hit is a guaranteed OHKO. what's more, kora doesn't really need the extra power from life orb, letting you run dice to smack hooh more consistently. what's more, you beat your #1 check AND boost your speed at the same time, meaning it's now impossible to revenge kill you without either priority or a scarf kora speed tie.
running scale shot as a speed boosting move also lets you have the freedom to run flare blitz, which turns fairyceus from a check to something that has to stay at full HP the entire match and watch out for hazards constantly:
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Sun: 354-417 (79.9 - 94.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
switching once into spikes is already a roll. switching twice means it kills you, and with two layers of spikes it's a 75% chance to ko without previous chip.
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 208 HP / 244+ Def Zygarde: 340-402 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
what else checks it? dondozo? that's a dumb ass mon
provided spikes are up, zygarde needs to have to correct tera typing AND predict it correctly to be a check: if you don't tera fairy, either low kick or scale can kill you, while if it teras and you get flareblitzed it's gg.
it has quite some versatility in terms of tera types too, tera fire lets you outright nuke fairies while avoiding random burns, ghost (maybe steel too) lets you crap on ekiller and fairy avoids facing scarf kora speed ties. normal might be useful for marshadow too ig.
basically scale shot pushed a borderline banworthy mon over the edge, having no reliable checks nor revenge killers in one single set and requiring a great deal of prediction and avoiding chip just to not get 6-0ed. thanks for coming to my TED talk
252 Atk Life Orb Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Scale Shot (5 Hits) vs 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 240-290 (47.6 - 57.5%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Koraidon @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Fire / Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Scale Shot
- Low Kick
- Flare Blitz
nobody has posted about this yet and i feel like we need to talk about kora. in the latest DLC it got scale shot, which honestly pushes it over the edge.
before, koraidon's checks used to be stuff like hooh, fairyceus and certain zygarde tera types. all of these could be broken in some way but by compromising something else: running outrage to kill hooh made you very exploitable after and dragonium meant no tera, which in turn meant you couldn't rely on flame charge to break fairy, leaving you with either another wall or making you easy to revenge kill by forgoing flame charge for flare blitz. if you ran sd + flame charge without dragonium hooh would check you pretty well (not a surefire check with lo but still pretty good), while choice sets were prediction reliant and easy to abuse by something like xern.
now with scale shot though, hooh is actually not an issue anymore. a 4-hit scale shot almost kills hooh, while a 5-hit is a guaranteed OHKO. what's more, kora doesn't really need the extra power from life orb, letting you run dice to smack hooh more consistently. what's more, you beat your #1 check AND boost your speed at the same time, meaning it's now impossible to revenge kill you without either priority or a scarf kora speed tie.
running scale shot as a speed boosting move also lets you have the freedom to run flare blitz, which turns fairyceus from a check to something that has to stay at full HP the entire match and watch out for hazards constantly:
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Sun: 354-417 (79.9 - 94.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
switching once into spikes is already a roll. switching twice means it kills you, and with two layers of spikes it's a 75% chance to ko without previous chip.
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 208 HP / 244+ Def Zygarde: 340-402 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
what else checks it? dondozo? that's a dumb ass mon
provided spikes are up, zygarde needs to have to correct tera typing AND predict it correctly to be a check: if you don't tera fairy, either low kick or scale can kill you, while if it teras and you get flareblitzed it's gg.
it has quite some versatility in terms of tera types too, tera fire lets you outright nuke fairies while avoiding random burns, ghost (maybe steel too) lets you crap on ekiller and fairy avoids facing scarf kora speed ties. normal might be useful for marshadow too ig.
basically scale shot pushed a borderline banworthy mon over the edge, having no reliable checks nor revenge killers in one single set and requiring a great deal of prediction and avoiding chip just to not get 6-0ed. thanks for coming to my TED talk
Dondozo isn't even a reliable switch in sometimes.
bill.is.me
Banned deucer.
it never was... low kick hits it real hard. Also bro must be a masochist running that lorb scale shot LOL.
But yea I agree with Dtc scale shot is really nice for koraidon essentially being the power of lorb Dclaw with no drawback along with letting you run blitz while still having a speed boosting option unlike flame charge which is great for stuff like tera fairy zygarde which otherwise don't mind flame charge.
Kenpwnchi
formerly Pwndkthnx
All I wanna say is Grimmsnarl is phenomenal in every Ubers format, and for GOOD reasoning, too. Light Clay Grimmsnarl with Screens (amongst other things) makes Uber games actually seem balanced (due to the halving of PhyA/SpcA). As a matter of fact, you'd be better off caught using Grimmsnarl than NOT using Grimmsnarl. Otherwise, you get steamrolled. However, I think that speaks volumes, as well. Grimmsnarl definitely has a niche here.
koraidon wont get banned. it is manageble, and is countered by the best pokemon in the tier. that might just be my experience as a user of prankster t-wave though.
that being said, kyogre used to be great with scarf, maybe you could find luck with that.
koraidon isn't countered by anything (bar from shit like tapu fini but we known that isn't a very viable mon). have you ever played with/against sd scale kora?
as for scarf ogre, it's unviable and has been so ever since pdon got introduced. it has effectively no water STAB because of it and has to rely on multiple ice beam predicts to even do anything, while becoming setup fodder after being choice locked.
again, my bias comes from my usage of murkrow, which shuts down any and all non dark or ground type speed sweepers.
also, i forgot about scale shot.
252+ Atk Orichalcum Pulse Tera Fighting Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
a max invested koraidon can barely even ohko an uninvested p-don with rocks in.
252+ Atk Orichalcum Pulse Tera Fighting Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Groudon-Primal: 206-244 (51.3 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
52 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fighting Koraidon: 198-234 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
against my actual groudon set, koraidon is out-damaged by groudon. and thats with tera.
¨but precipice blades can miss¨
if your that worried about koraidon, just run dragon claw.
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Weirdhamster
Banned deucer.
I’m really not sure what you mean with manageable. “Countered by the best pokemon in the tier” is just not true at all. Pdon is not a reliable koraidon check what so ever. Low kick hits for 120 bp stab vs it, and you’re either getting 2hkod if you’re offensive, or deal way too little damage. Even ho-oh, which used to be a manageable check pre dlc, now folds to it without koraidon needing to use a niche set (lorb sd, sd dragon z etc)
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 455-540 (109.6 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Groudon-Primal: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Koraidon: 244-288 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 178-211 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Groudon-Primal: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Koraidon: 244-288 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 178-211 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
To add on, unlike other threats such as primal groudon or primal kyogre which can’t tera, koraidon is perfectly able to terastalize on basically any one of its sets (lorb, dice, scarf/band etc). Koraidons biggest flaw pre dlc was that to boost its speed, it had to either run sd and flame charge, which gave up a valuable stab option such as flare blitz which made it easier to check due to its low bp. With scale shot, not only can it boost its speed without having to give up flare blitz, it also got a better stab option than dragon claw at the same time.
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 228-268 (66.8 - 78.5%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 180-213 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 180-213 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
"koraidon is outdamaged" so what, it wins the 1v1 even unboosted because it outruns and kora kills most pdon sets at +2 with low kick, with even defensive falling to the most minimal chip or spikes
in the best possible scenario, where it has a +attack nature and is terad, and p-don dosent hav a status move, yes it does. unless it manages to get a swords dance off, in which case it still cant even ohko it withuot tera or rocks, so unless koraidon got that boost without taking damage, it will get ko-d. and even then, unless it managed to get off both scale shot and swords dance, that leaves it vulnerable to being revenge killed. and even if it does, you better pray that the opponent dosent have any sort of priority move, or a sash.
uh, something isn't a check if it dies after a swords dance
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Groudon-Primal: 312-367 (77.2 - 90.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
the most defensive pdon dies to jolly teraless +2 koraidon after spikes if it gets the slightest amount of chip, which it's pdon, it will get chipped throughout the game. pdon isn't a kora check in any way, shape or form. enough said.
oh yeah and kora can tera to take prio and sash is a mostly unviable item outside of hazard leads that is deleted by scale shot
i will admit, it isnt as much of a counter as i first thought
that being said, it absolutely is a check, and hazzards arent that common in this format. if a check stops working if the checked pokemon gets off a boosting move that the pokemon, who isnt defensive, has to take an attack for, and if hazard are in play in a format that dosent see that much hazards, it is still a check.
about the sash, i once again forgot about scale shot.
hazards are very common, what?
HO teams have deos lead, which is an extremely good lead that can basically always get at least one layer of spikes up, while not letting the opponent defog through sheer offensive pressure/stuff like taunt.
and as for less offensive teams spiker pdon exists, rocker arcs exist, rocker ndm isn't that common anymore but still decent and you pdon is 100% getting chipped into range of a low kick against a balance team because it'll have to switch into something. basing your counterplay on having a mon with no recovery whatsoever at 100% health and with no hazards up is having no real counterplay, hell even with recovery you can't rely on having it always at 100 because that's not how matches go in reality.
I'm really regretting jumping into the fray given your earlier comments. They give off the impression that you've either never played the tier or get your rocks off being a contrarian.
is the easiest mon in the tier bar none to chip down due to its complete lack of recovery, weakness to every hazard, and needing to defensively answer a plethora of threats. It is at best an incredibly soft check to choiced or non boosted is hardly an argument against something being broken. Ironically it is probably about the same number of mons that can actually check . scares out a ton of mons which makes it incredibly easy to nab that +2 at which point it can likely finish off the game unless you have one of the literally less than a handful of mons that can hard check / counter it (mainly 
). A fully healthy 
used to be able to check it until dlc gave it scale shot instead of flame charge.There are some mons that can revenge
, but not due to sashes , which are unviable outside of the lead slot (sashshadow is unviable shoutout @ANinjaDude), but priority. 
and 
and 
can revenge it from a little under half health. This also doesn't get into 
or 
which are still extremely good.Attachments
i not only play the tier, but i was once ranked 60th.I'm really regretting jumping into the fray given your earlier comments. They give off the impression that you've either never played the tier or get your rocks off being a contrarian.
There are some mons that can revenge
this only proves i was ranked 60th in A format, crap
that being said, your argument is great, and i am glad you joined the conversation.
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Nobody runs Adamant Koraidon dude. Most of your takes are complete out of touch with the meta. Not sure what your point with Murkrow is either, this isn't VGC
the point is that no-one runs adamant, and even that wouldnt be enough. also, my point was with prankster pokemon in general, i just happen to use murkrow for reasons.
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doesn't Orichalcum Pulse get shut down by Harsh Sun? same way as protosynthesis
Pulse does not get shut down by
but protosynthesis does. If you're using to check you're already likely in a pretty bad spot.
https://pokepast.es/e531d05667cd40ef
Anyone got any tips for this team, Im hoping it gets better once/if Koraidon gets banned, but I also struggle with Extreme killer and some bulky Arceus forms. I feel like I get set-up on too easily but im not sure what to change.
Anyone got any tips for this team, Im hoping it gets better once/if Koraidon gets banned, but I also struggle with Extreme killer and some bulky Arceus forms. I feel like I get set-up on too easily but im not sure what to change.
What does Lunala even do here?
Yeah your right, I updated it, Lunala is less passive now, also I know tapu Lele is weird but its kinda been working for me, somewhat fast taunt and aromatherapy, plus psychic terrain to boost Mewtwo Y and shut down opposing priority
https://pokepast.es/5cda90e5d76ab81f