RU National Dex RU

pinorska

Banned deucer.
Thanks Dorron for sharing the TL maker.
A few thoughts

  • Zarude is basically mandatory in the tierbuilder, because of its speed stat and good offensive typing, atk stat and coverage, its role compression is great, especially with defog support + a choice scarf, it beats HO cheese such as Z-Celebrate Espeon or hail with ease. Its speed stat is only contested by pokemon that have massive downsides to running scarf, such as Noivern, Bat, and Zygarde-10. Thanks to Jungle Healing, which you can run even on scarf, it can switch freely into the tiers many bulky waters. It is the best revenge killer in the tier, and it type and stat checks almost everything. Crobat can get 2hkod by lariat, sylveon gets 2hkod by whip, you can uturn on obvious chesnaught, you can revenge cm boosted Raikou at almost full, etc. My beloved espeon is missing from the tier list but that is a nice B ranked mon.

    I don't really want to expand too much on other rankings as they mostly seem intuitive to me and I'm on vacation, but I can answer any questions about my rankings.




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Peum

formerly Mandibuladel5555
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Thanks Dorron for the Tier Maker
My thoughts after having played the tier for roughly 3 months.

S tier:

:Cobalion:
Cobalion - Greatest sr setter, can setup rocks very easily and resists hits like a truck, while also having the opportunity of setting up with sd and breaking the opponent's team apart.

:Crobat:
Crobat - What can I say about this monster? This guy is switchable on almost every pokemon fits in every team and has great speed and pivot while also having taunt, defog and recovery.

:zarude:
Zarude - As pinorska said, This mon goes crazy with scarf.

:milotic:
Milotic - Greatest wall, has recovery, flip turn, toxic and for the last move you can use refresh or ice beam, pretty much it's the best at their job.

Honorable Mentions

:Bronzong:
Bronzong - If Cobalion is the best sr setter, this is the second best, this guy meets the role compendium of Ground Immunity and Stealth Rocker setter while also being super bulky and having a good moveset.

:Marowak-Alola: :Stakataka: :Camerupt-mega: :Cresselia:
The Trick Room Gang - Trick room works unexpectedly well in the tier while also being very fun, super recommended, Stakataka is the goat in the gang, having Trick Room and being super easy to sweep with.

:Slurpuff: :Regidrago:
Click A Button Mons - These guys shouldnt work as good as they do, Slurpuff at +6 has only 1 wall, it being Steelix-mega, all of the other mons in the tier die in one hit and Regidrago is the guy who you just give it a Scarf and kill their Fairy (not very hard having only 4 viable fairy mons in the tier)

:Steelix-mega: :Chesnaught:
The Unkillable Guys - The Defense stats of Steelix and Chesnaught dont lie, if you ever want a physical wall who doesnt die these guys are the option.

These are all my thoughts after playing 3 months in the tier, all of the other ranks explain by themselves (Arctozolt sucks in Natdex RU and I will defend that argument to death)
 

Dorron

BLU LOBSTAH
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
Hi! It's me again to announce that we have our first Player Survey to finish the Generation and give general feedback from the players who most have played the tier in tournaments. It will remain open for about a week, ending on November 20th 23:59 GMT+1. If you have any question about it, don't hesitate to ask me!

The link to the survey is here.

 
Hi! It's me again to announce that we have our first Player Survey to finish the Generation and give general feedback from the players who most have played the tier in tournaments. It will remain open for about a week, ending on November 20th 23:59 GMT+1. If you have any question about it, don't hesitate to ask me!

The link to the survey is here.

cala a boca vc eh uma metralhadora de merda
 
Turns out i haven't logged on smogon in weeks because of rugby, but here are my thoughts after NDPL

Click sprites for sets if i've imported some for important mons

S Tier
:flygon:
Flygon is easily the most splashable Pokemon in the tier, while its utility sets are perfectly suited for the tier, you never know what you're going to face which makes loading Flygon into TP mandatory otherwise your'e losing out. Defog sets match up perfectly into ever setter. especially if you're using Fly-Z to ensure Chesnaught can't freely Spike. The only issue for Flygon is Bronzong and Gligar which usually you can U-turn on. Offensive LO blasts everything in the tier bar Vileplume. DragoniumZ lets you OHKO standard Milotic with 148 Def EVs. You can enterchange Fire Punch and Stone Edge varying if your team needs to hit Togekiss or Bronzong.
:zygarde-10%:
Zygarde has forever been omnipotent, howeverits potential hasn't fully been used yet. Choice Band sets have little to no switch in, especially if you're able to bait a Toxic in on Chesnaught which lets you chip it down. Vileplume is 2HKOd by Outrage, which yes, you typically don't lock into early unless that is their only check. Gligar does a great job in dispatching Zydog's choice-locked sets. DDance is great as a late game cleaner if Gligar has been chipped, especially if your opponent relies on Choice Scarf Zaurde as speed control or a makeshift check for the dawg.

Potential eye-raisers

:ampharos-mega:
If you've been following this tier a while, you'd know I am top1 advocates for Mega Ampharos. This is no change as Ampahros' usage in NDPL even shows that it is slowly becoming a valuable asset in BO/Volt-Turn teams. Volt-Turn with Zarude makes it a monster, especially with the rise of Mega Steelix as the go-to Steel of the tier currently. Dragon Pulse 2HKOs most of the Meta, while Rest makes its match-up better into Toxic Volcanion/Raikou. Rest is usually the go-to set for me as I usually pair it with Heal Bell Togekiss. Ampahros' main issue is the prediction of whether you need to Volt Switch to keep momentum, or Dragon Pulse to secure a kill on something, with Pokemon like Nidoqueen and Bronzong making it an issue.

:Rotom-mow:
Rotom could be seen as a surprise being fairly high up on the tier, but I think its excellent offensive typing+its ability makes it one of the most annoying scarfers to deal with. Rotom has the ability to cripple giant walls such as Vileplume, Registeel, Bronzong, and Sylveon which open up opportunity for cleaner teammates. Its STABs make it easier for Volt-Switch spamming in fear of eating a Leaf Storm and taking their Ground-type fully out of commission instantly. Nasty Plot has a very small, but usable niche; if you are able to be+2 and constantly spamVolt-Switch against the likes of Registeel, Incineroar, and Metagross, it makes cleaning late game so much easier as you are constantly gaining momentum from this set.

Reece0305 ツ vs. DugZaッ- this replay shows the cleaning potential of Ground-reliant teams especially on Choice Scarf

That should be everything for now, if anyone else has questions on my tier list feel free to DM me, sorry for the late ass post but it's finally here

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Dorron

BLU LOBSTAH
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
Happy Tuesday you all! Thanks for your answers which are so useful for such a small community that's growing. Don't hesitate to share your feelings about the results in this thread.

Well, survey results here!



On a scale of 1-10, how enjoyable do you find the current metagame? See: do you enjoy playing it?
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From 20 responses, most people really enjoy playing the tier, with an average response of 8.3. This is something we love to see and we'll make our best to keep it up.



On a scale of 1-10, how good do you find the current metagame? See: do you find it competitive and balanced?
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From 20 responses, people generally find the tier balanced, with an average response of 7.6. We're making our best to raise this number and taking a look to some controversial presences in the tier.


Which statement most accurately describes how you feel about hail teams in ND RU?
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From 18 people who had an opinion on this topic, 6 of them (33%) would support any type of tiering action, either a suspect test or a quickban, while the vast majority of 66% think Hail is at least generally balanced.


Which statement most accurately describes how you feel about Electric Terrain teams in ND RU?
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From the 16 responses, 37.5% of the people think Electric Terrain teams are something that needs to be looked at with by our council, while the other 62.5% think it's not tiering action worth.

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The community in general don't see these Pokemon as problematic, with Crobat and Nidoqueen having the most unbalanced-related votes with 15.8% each of them.

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The community in general support tiering action in these banned Pokemon, but we are still hesitant on doing so as Gen 9 is already here and we think there might be not enough activity to come to a conclusion soon enough. We still appreciate your thoughts.

Besides some isolated answers and a person asking me to be banned, the main concerns brought up are Mega Houndoom and Slurpuff for metagame presences, while some people have also asked for a Reuniclus comeback. We'll take all this into consideration.

And that's it! We look forward to make a thing of Gen 9 NDRU too so don't forget us. Have a good day!
 

Attachments

I do apologise to those watching this thread if I may have caught you at an inconvenient time. Truth is, I was a bit busy with back-to-back exams and spending the first few weeks of the holidays catching up on pressing matters (i.e. Spamming Palafin).

Retrospective
Attached below is my take on the viability ranking created by Dorron - who did an excellent job on this. I have used unorthodox Pokemon that no one in their right mind would put in such a tier list. I considered making my own tiermaker to include the eccentric stuff like Jynx, Vigoroth, and Trevenant but I don't know where (or even if) I would place them in viability. Perhaps the only thing I would really add to this list is Togedemaru in the C or even B- ranks. If you're here for spicy takes, then I may disappoint you with my rather lukewarm selection but I did manage to pepper a few bold rankings here and there.



S and A+ are deliberately designed to have 10 Pokemon as I wanted those ranks to double as the top 10 best pokemon in the metagame. Hypothetically, you could add Nidoqueen, Chesnaught, Flygon and even Sylveon to this echelon - though I personally hold that none aside from Nidoqueen fit that calibre.

Crobat and Volcanion are clear S ranks. A+ ranks have the following composition in respective order: offensive pivots, breakers, defensive behemoths then Azelf.

:crobat: (featuring :togedemaru:)
Crobat is numero uno as an unrivalled pivot and a fulcrum of Balance and Bulky Offense. The most common set is the Zarude-checking defogging variant but I feel that squanders its potential. Super Fang is beautiful for flipping the match-up on Registeel and Taunt shuts down healing attempts. You could indeed put BB/Fang/Taunt/Roost into the application (though you miss U-turn). The biggest thing going for Crobat is that all the Pokemon in this tier that resist Brave Bird hate that Crobat can simply pivot out. Rhyperior, Registeel, Mega Steelix, and Bronzong all feel like momentum sinks against a Crobat. I mentioned Togedemaru in the opening and here is where I will make the case for it. I have started running Scarf Lighting Rod Togedemaru as an offensive pivot into Crobat since you can gain your own momentum with U-turn if the bat retreats. Stealth Rock, Brave Bird and U-turn resistances in tandem with high defence mean that Togedemaru takes very little chip each time it enters (if it takes too much, endeavour the switch in). Iron Barbs could work but the damage isn’t generally worth it over the utility pivoting in and out of Raikou and Arctozolt provides. Not to mention that Crobat will typically find opportunities to heal.

:Volcanion:
In the past, I would have given Volcanion that honour thanks to its ridiculous damage output and its ability to pick and choose counters. However, the counterplay to Volcanion has risen adeptly. No longer are most compositions relying on exploitable mons such as Gastrodon with checks such as Dragalge rising to the fore. Even softer checks such as Porygon and Noivern can tank a hit and either force it out or exploit Volcanion for momentum. I do think that Volcanion has lost its “unwallability” as the metagame progressed but I would argue it’s an S-rank solely on the integrity it can provide many builds as a Steel-Breaking extraordinaire, hazard control and the ability to lure passive water types with SubToxic. Volcanion is the biggest reason why you can get away with a lot of heat in this metagame like Frosmoth or Sneasel.

:zarude: :cobalion: :noivern:
3 of the best offensive pivots. Zarude is a versatile offensive threat with Bulk-up Z-crystal sets and boots. Easily the best scarfer in the tier - often when building, you ask yourself "why can't I use Zarude?" Cobalion is a ‘fake steel’ but it’s a solid Swords Dancer and bulky pivot into the likes of Zarude. Noivern provides phenomenal utility with its neat defensive typing for checking threats such as Volcanion. Honourable mention to Raikou but I find it a better breaker than an offensive pivot.

:Houndoom-Mega: :Raikou:
Two of the best breakers in the tier. Raikou also functions as an offensive pivot but CM + Z crystal is rapidly showing its worth as the superior set. I discussed Mega Houndoom at length before, but this is a Pokemon with few hard counters and it can potentially flinch through all of them.

:steelix-mega: :milotic:
Two of the best defensive Pokemon in the tier. You can run both of these in a single team to have a good defensive core to check the majority of the metagame. However, I would still advise you to run supporting clerics and cover for what the core can be overwhelmed by (Raikou, Medicham and Zygarde-10% are some examples).

:Azelf:
Azelf can get away with any 4 combinations of moves. I know people that just Knock off and U-turn on their sets and I have experimented with Sunny Day Heat Rock and Rain Dance Damp Rock Azelf to some success. But generally, you see a Boots pivoting set with Knock-off, U-turn, Flamethrower and STAB or a Nasty Plot Set. The only thing holding it back is its frailty which can impact its longevity and prevent it from cleanly sweeping teams. However, you can build around this limitation and Azelf only needs a few turns to show its worth.

The A-ranks are ol’ reliables. Bulky cores in Sylveon, Gastrodon, Chesnaught, Gligar and (defensive) Flygon. Offensive nominees here include Nidoqueen, Roserade (as a spiker), Flygon (scarf, DD, band), Zydog and the recently discovered Slurpuff. Looking retrospectively, the A ranks contain mons that you will find on a vast majority of teams. Bronzong usurps Registeel’s role here simply for its unique capabilities of checking Alolan Raichu, Slurpuff and Mega Steelix better than Registeel. Bronzong’s performance was also noticeably stronger than Registeels in recent tournaments. Togekiss is also a noticeable absence in the A rank and I attribute this to the increasing passivity of its defensive sets. I find Noivern and Crobat a better fit on many of my teams. However, Nasty Plot Togekiss (arguably its best role rn) is still fearsome and can potentially flinch through even the sturdiest of checks.

Capping the A ranks, I listed the rest of the key stuff in the metagame: defensive threats that don’t quite cut the mark, HO pokemon that are tough to squeeze on other archetypes, tanks and assorted utility Pokemon (looking at you Scarf garde). I put Hail and ETerrain here since they have slight inconsistencies.

:ninetales-alola: :arctozolt:
Hail is constrained by the fact that scarfers Roserade and up + Scarf Gardevoir hassle staple hail sweeper Arctozolt and that there are quite a few pokemon that can live a single hit from Boots Arctozolt including most Steel types. Hail has outs though: changing EVs and items on Arctozolt, and adding Alolan Sandslash helps deal with the counterplay listed above. However, making these changes come at a significant cost with increased exploitability (for example weakness hazards or lowered damage output) or opportunity costs with team slots. As of late, people are also starting to adapt to playing against Hail in the builder or mid-battle.

:pincurchin: :raichu-alola:
Electric terrain teams feel the same way although they trade less consistent counterplay for vulnerability to hazards and Alolan Raichu’s 4MSS. Alolan Raichu has the uncanny ability to lose to Pokemon which it should in theory beat. Funny examples I found include Dragalge and Noivern - depending on the set used. Bronzong deserves special mention since it procs 70 BP Rising Voltage. Additionally, life orb sets are able to be played around with consistent recoil + hazard chip. Z-crystal sets could circumvent this but most neutral hits (even a few resisted ones such as CC from Cobalion) do a chunk. To put things in perspective, you risk a 2HKO’d from Milotic’s scald and A-Raichu is 2HKO’d by Vaporeon.

The B ranks indicate the “good but not great” in the metagame with viability decreasing steadily from B+ to B-. I really enjoy using some of these Pokemon but they need support (sometimes intensive support in the case of Yanmega) to perform their duties. I was surprised how the B ranks turned out since, in the past, I felt a lot of them were C ranks with a coat of paint or B+ (even A-ranked) Pokemon. I didn’t differ too much from the original VR as I either internalised all the rankings or the VR Council did a good job assessing viability. I think most of the placements here are fairly straight forward but I will provide a broad overview and discuss notable placements.

The Magnificent Seven
:medicham: :pangoro: :golurk: :Incineroar: (swords dance) :Obstagoon: :Machamp: :Bewear:
These pokemon are like the cowboys of National Dex RU, they come in guns blazing and do damage. Medicham is probably the premier breaker for its ability to fold teams with life orb and even scarfed sets. Pangoro is the next highest for being a pain to switch into with Knock Off and Close Combat hitting incredibly hard. Golurk has fallen off in my eyes as its speed tier is noticeable as more pokes EV themselves to reach the 210 benchmark. Earthquake and Poltergeist are also not as spammable as they were in the early meta. Incineroar is a tad underrated as an offensive Pokemon, I anticipate people gravitating towards offensive sets like SS RU. Obstagoon struggles to make progress against faced-paced teams or teams with Cobalion, but has the perk of being the best Guts user. Machamp is not too far behind but it is slower and lacks Obsta’s useful STAB. Bewear is the runt of the pack. I debated putting this in the C-ranks but I reckon bulky SD sets and Choice Band differentiate themselves from its Fighting-type brethren in terms of firepower alone.

Ranked Higher than Normal
:lucario: :tsareena: :rotom-mow: :tentacruel: :drapion: :articuno-galar: :cloyster: :yanmega:
Lucario is super slept on. Think of Lucario as a Cobalion that trades bulks for the ability to single-handedly 6-0 hyper offence at +2. Tsareena is a nice role-compression Pokemon with spin/knock. Rapid Spin + Triple Axel dispatches Crobat which is insane for a Grass Type. Rotom-Mow has a really nice Nasty Plot set and is a serviceable scarfer/defogger. Tentacruel blanks Sub + Toxic Volcanion and Rapid Spin differentiates it from other Bulky Waters. Drapion struggles with specific pokemon based on the Z-Move it goes for but it can exert pressure on Balance and Bulky Offense. Articuno Galar was close to being unranked or C-ranked but I tried out Double Dance Z sets and I fell in love with it. Impeccable late-game cleaner. Cloyster is underrated as a late-game cleaner with its Z sets but it is also a very interesting early-game spiking option. Yanmega is super underrated in this format. Sure it is difficult to build with but the most common "counter" (Registeel) is easily exploitable since that is the main switch into Yanmega on almost all Regi builds. I have won a game against a hardcore balance team as nothing except Registeel wanted to take hits from Yanmega. Hazard removal is not too difficult to come by with consistent removal options available in the metagame.

Ranked Lower than I expected
:meloetta: :diancie: :camerupt-mega: :ampharos-mega: :Barraskewda: :alomomola:
Z Meloetta is very disappointing. Most scarfers are able to damage it significantly even with the +1 defence boost and a lot of walls are able to tank its hits. I have experimented with various bulky calm mind sets but Melo pressured because of its comparatively low speed. Diancie is gaining a lot of traction so Diancie topping the B+ rank is partly due to peer pressure. I see the utility that it has but I don’t really fit it on my teams since it feels like such a momentum sap at times. Checking Bat and blanking Noiv, plus not being screwed by U-turn is a boon though. I like Camerupt and Ampharos Mega a lot but man are they slow and their typings are awkward for their jobs. Barraskewda was a borderline C rank for me as it does very little in the current metagame. Band Sets are insanely prediction reliant whilst Z or Boots are pitifully weak. It’s only B- because I like the speed tier (adamant skewda). Similarly, Alomomola offers little over the other bulky water types and is the most passive of them all. I didn’t put it in the C rank since it does have fat wishes + rocky helmet utility.

C ranks are pretty much the rest of the viable tools available. I divided up the laggards in B- between C and B- with the first half of the C-rank being former B- ranks. The latter half (Doublade to Cress) is super niche stuff that comes with serious opportunity costs that still retains a viable niche in the metagame. For example, Escavalier blanks common Roserade sets since they don’t often run (or need) HP Fire. Very Niche equivalent to the C- rank and includes stuff I have run to marginal success. Curse Muk-Alola comes to mind.

:magneton:
Magneton is the D-Ranked Pokemon from this VR. All the Magnet Pull Pokemon here kinda suck. You usually trap Empoleon but the rest of the Steel types have a much harder time being trapped. You need Magnet Rise and/or Chople Berry to trap Mega Steelix or Bronzong, you need Chople + Defense investment to trap non-Fight Z Cobalion, you need Speed Investment + Shuca/Magnet Rise to trap common Metagross sets and you don’t trap Registeel at all. I think Specs Analytic, Boots Sturdy or an Eviolite pivot could be explored in the future but I remain sceptical of their effectiveness: the competition for the Electric slot in NDRU is stiff.


Looking at the Future.

Right now, National Dex RU is in a pretty comfortable state as far as ladderless tiers go. The offensive options are versatile and powerful but they don’t feel unassailable. The defensive options can check a wide array of Pokemon but they are not impregnable. You can run most playstyles comfortably including fringe ones such as Trick Room and Sticky Web, but Stall is by far the hardest team composition to take advantage of. This could be attributable to the small demographic playing this format but even on paper nothing feels too overwhelming as a builder.

:slurpuff:
I am probably the only person that cares about Slurpuff overwhelming Steel types with +6 drain punch and outspeeding most of the common scarfers aside from Flygon and Zarude. Set-up is perhaps the most difficult aspect of Slurpuff since it will end up with, at most, 75% HP (lowering the threshold for a 2HKO if you do survive a hit). It does suffer from priority and vulnerability to hazards but it can make it up with Drain Punch recovery.

:pincurchin::terrain-extender: :raichu-alola:+ :ninetales-alola: :icy-rock: :arctozolt:
For the Survey results, I generally think Electric Terrain and Hail are balanced for the Metagame. I have been tossing and turning over this point for a while but after discussing it with council members and esteemed players, I was able to brainstorm counterplay options for both archetypes - which I brought up in this very post. For Hail, I did consider Aurora Veil as a potential pro-ban argument but the effective 3-turn duration hardly makes it significant for most games.


As for the specific Pokemon questioned, Zarude was a no-brainer for being balanced whilst I (think) I put Nidoqueen, Crobat and Volcanion as generally balanced w/ no tiering action required.

:volcanion:
I know a few people thought Volcanion was broken beforehand. While it is true that this thing has a slim range of hard counters (to which you could always respond with a strategic Superpower), I find it easy to deal with Volcanion by having 2 checks that can come in and soak up hits with relative ease. For example, Refresh Seismitoad bullies Sub Toxic Volcanions but loses to HP Grass. There’s also a wide pool of multipurpose Volcanion counters such as Dragalge, Porygon-2, Snorlax, invested Umbreon and Tentacruel. A lot of key offensive threats like Raikou and Nidoqueen also beat Volcanion after a KO or from a slow switch. Even small changes such as Leaf Storm > Giga Drain on Roserade can help in the match-up against Volcanion.

:crobat: :zarude: :nidoqueen:
Crobat could be conceivably broken but very rarely do you find Crobat soloing a team. To me, it’s a key team player with the Brave Bird + U-turn combo is valuable for initiative, but it does not feel oppressive. Zarude is in a similar boat with its scarf sets and the Bulk Up + Z Crystal sets (while good) are a lot less consistent. Knowing that Zarude isn’t Scarf also provides opportunities to stay in with faster threats like Cobalion. Nidoqueen is really good as a wall breaker but the metagame adapted with bulkier Milotics, Bronzong and by exerting more offensive pressure in general. Not to mention that Umbreon and Porygon-2 were godsends as they could take a hit from the most commonly run sets. Nidoqueen as it sort of needs the Ice, Fire or occasional Electric coverage but I could see Toxic over Ice Beam and Thunderbolt.


Potential Unbans:

:polteageist:
Nope. You can count Polteageist counterplay has on your hands: Alolan Muk, Mega Houndoom, Snorlax, Obstagoon, Drapion, Guzzlord, Incineroar, Umbreon and Zarude. Of these, Mega Houndoom cannot switch in, all of them bar Alolan Muk and Lax can potentially lose to Normalium Z with hazards and/or chip. A good chunk is defeated by the strength sap sets. With the limited pool of viable Dark and Normal types in this tier, being forced to run either is not worth it for a clearly broken mon.

:tornadus:

I think this Pokemon would be a bit overbearing for the tier at this stage. Flying/Fire/Fighting coverage is virtually unresisted and it has the tools it needs to break past common checks like Rhyperior with Grass Knot, and Diancie with Grassium Z. This is not mentioning the Bulk Up set it can run or the fact that it can simply pivot out with U-turn. Sure, the speed tier leaves a lot to be desired being outsped by the likes of Raikou, Noivern, Starmie and Mega Houndoom, but you could always get around this with Tailwind as Fighting/Flying coverage is sufficient. Unlike Gen 8 RU, we have to contend with Tornadus carrying Z-moves.

:heracross:

I can see this being unbanned but I am a tad sceptical of its healthiness for the tier. Guts sets have virtually no effective switch-ins aside from maybe Weezing-Galar but the speed is on the relatively low end for a wall breaker. Scarf Moxie sets can clean up a lot of offensive teams but has to lock itself into exploitable moves to do so. The strongest reason for keeping it banned is that this thing was freed twice and on both occasions, it proved too much for the tier. We could do this rodeo for the third time but given how stable this tier is and the fact that most of the player base is moving on, I don’t want to interfere at this point in time.

:tangrowth:

This is perhaps the Pokemon I am most comfortable with being unbanned. Heracross may have more of the player base support but I reckon Tangrowth is the healthier of the two. Assault Vest Tangrowth is arguably the biggest neuter for electric terrain teams as Alolan Raichu is constrained to run Nasty Plot and/or Psychic to overwhelm it. Assault Vest Tangrowth can also check pokemon like Raikou. Phys Def Rock Helmet Tangrowth can potentially check dangerous threats like Barbaracle and pivot into stables like Zarude, Chesnaught and Physical Sharpedo. The main concern with Tangrowth is that it has the potential to be over-centralising with its two sets. At this point in the generation, I’m not sure that even I would be willing to introduce such a polarising Pokemon.

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My sincerest gratitude goes to all those I tested my teams with, or played against in friendlies or tours. I am grateful to my fellow council members and to the greater NDRU community for making the tier enjoyable and playable. National Dex RU is not the perfect metagame and there are other metagames past and present that are more accessible. But NDRU might be the most fun out of all the ladderless formats (let's face it, I doubt we're getting even an RoA ladder). Here's to SV National Dex RU being just as enjoyable (if not more) than Gen 8 - once we get past the rocky start of course!
 
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Its the end of the generation, and unfortunately I don’t think this tier will get played much going forward with gen 9 natdex ru, so as a goodbye I made a list of the top 10 goats of natdex ru.

:ss/hawlucha:

I didn’t think this mon deserved being on the list because it was only ru for like 1 day but still it dropped while being suspected in uu which is really funny.
:sm/donphan:

Donphan is the goat and always will be, but its uu so I cant put it on the list.

:ss/sylveon:
scor made me put this here


:ss/gastrodon:

Gastro held the tier together when many broken threats like zera and heattom were running around (more on them later). Its still pretty decent at checking threats like raikou and volcanion but has fallen a bit from the glory days of checking all the most prominent threats, which is why I cant rank it higher than 10.

:ss/crawdaunt:

Daunt was a pretty broken mon, but its pretty funny because it got banned not once but twice. When bisharp dropped daunt was let back in only to be kicked out again pretty quickly. It was pretty difficult to handle and basically every team had to have chesnaught or zarude.

:ss/cobalion:

Coba became a meta staple by being able to check zarude and set rocks. Sd + steelium z can break pretty well although there are some checks like glig and fat waters, but fat waters can be taken care of with fightz. It can also run pivot sets with volt switch if the z is already being used by a different mon. Overall it has great role compression.

:sm/deoxys-defense:

Deod was really annoying, at first mostly just hazard sets were used but ~~then the epic np set pushed it over the edge and made it broken~~ demon deo was discovered and could beat a lot of things for no reason, there are even really stupid replays of deo beating zarude who should be the best check to it, but deoxys was just too goated.

:ss/volcanion:

Probably the best mon rn imo, volc has a limited amount of checks and some sets can beat them pretty easily. Gastrodon? Seismitoad? Just hp grass. Specs earth power can beat dragalge and tentacruel pretty easily as well. My favorite set was running heavy slam to beat sylveon which isn’t a good set but I would run it if I faced scorbunnys . Theres also stinkum cb volcanion

:ss/zeraora:

Strange as it may sound, I believe that pivot sets of zera weren’t even that broken. They had plenty of checks such as ches gastro rose and flygon, and while these could be beaten with some kind of special attacking pivot set this wasn’t run much. Unfortunately cm sets started to gain popularity and these were pretty difficult to stop and led to it getting banned. Still weird to think it dropped here in the first place though.

:sm/aggron-mega:

This was the best steel type for the entire time it was here. The bulk was insane of course and it could tank any hit it wanted to. It beat most hazard control so it was also good at getting up rocks unless there was a gligar. Also anything fat that tried to sit on it would just get toxic’d and that was pretty annoying. Curse sets were also pretty cool and a bit underexplored. I think this calc sums it up pretty well: 252 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 99-117 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO

:ss/crobat:

The glue mon of the tier. Not only can it defog but its also great at pivoting and can clean with brave bird. The non-standard sets are also pretty fun. Super fang trolls the steels that come in pretty good. Theres also np flyz if you dont feel like using good sets and just want to troll.

:ss/togekiss:

This mon is super versatile and does a ton of different things. It can defog, and also is great at countering many physical threats such as zarude flygon and zydog. Spdef twave sets can check stuff like doom decently if you cant fit a check anywhere else. Np sets exist and if you want to run them I would recommend a zmove to beat steels that are expecting to tank a hit only to get cooked by +2 firium z.

:ss/zarude:

The king of the tier, I couldn’t put zarude anywhere but the top, even if it has fallen off a bit recently it still defined the meta for a long time. Hdb jungle healing sets are probably the best since they can sit on fat waters so effectively although scarf is needed on a lot of teams. If youre truely insane you can run the rockium/steelium z set to hit toge and crobat, although you can just uturn out with the hdb set anyways so its not really worth using.

also this is my final vr of this tier, and I dont feel like explaining everything but if youre wondering about a rank feel free to ask
my-image(1).png

shoutouts to everyone in the community, you all are the true goats of natdex ru
 
I've never played NDRU before, although I manage the unofficial NDNU, which has been quite fun. I heard talk of Tangrowth, and I was really curious as to why it was never unbanned from the tier. If I'm not wrong it never received an official suspect test or post-tour council quick ban, no? I don't seem to notice it poses any issues whatsoever, so I don't understand why it isn't in the tier.
 
I've never played NDRU before, although I manage the unofficial NDNU, which has been quite fun. I heard talk of Tangrowth, and I was really curious as to what it was never unbanned from the tier. If I'm not wrong it never received an official suspect test or post-tour council quick ban, no? I don't seem to notice it poses any issues whatsoever, so I don't understand why it isn't in the tier.
The decision of re-testing it was and still is heavily considered but as of right now, pmuch every tier that's not on Gen 9 is barely played, if Gen 8 OU was already almost dead and UU suffering the same fate (with the smallest bit being a random tour like once in a week) then ND RU wouldn't be able to stand up at all.

While im aware the option of just unbanning and re testing it early was an option, some of the council members (Dorron mainly) kinda just took ND RU as dead until January rolls around because even if we had the test almost no one would be up for it anyway. So yeah that's kind of how it went, i honestly didn't feel comfortable to just sit down there and do nothing, but at least for me, there wasn't really much to do except to wait for Gen 9

I also wanna know how tf i got aware of ND NU still existing a while ago by the end of Gen 8, i thought it was just for memes considering how it got started LOL
 
The decision of re-testing it was and still is heavily considered but as of right now, pmuch every tier that's not on Gen 9 is barely played, if Gen 8 OU was already almost dead and UU suffering the same fate (with the smallest bit being a random tour like once in a week) then ND RU wouldn't be able to stand up at all.

While im aware the option of just unbanning and re testing it early was an option, some of the council members (Dorron mainly) kinda just took ND RU as dead until January rolls around because even if we had the test almost no one would be up for it anyway. So yeah that's kind of how it went, i honestly didn't feel comfortable to just sit down there and do nothing, but at least for me, there wasn't really much to do except to wait for Gen 9

I also wanna know how tf i got aware of ND NU still existing a while ago by the end of Gen 8, i thought it was just for memes considering how it got started LOL
Gotcha, I totally understand. Even if it's a smaller pool of players though, would it be possible to just put tang on hold officially and state that a retest is likely to be reissued? Could I also ask what the current player activity is like? If possible, could we put together a consensus on how we feel about Tangrowth to at least confirm that it should be retested in the future (i.e. tiering surveys)? I'm just super interested in this tier, and I'd hate to see it go to waste with a whole other mon available that can shake things up.
 
Gotcha, I totally understand. Even if it's a smaller pool of players though, would it be possible to just put tang on hold officially and state that a retest is likely to be reissued? Could I also ask what the current player activity is like? If possible, could we put together a consensus on how we feel about Tangrowth to at least confirm that it should be retested in the future (i.e. tiering surveys)? I'm just super interested in this tier, and I'd hate to see it go to waste with a whole other mon available that can shake things up.
I don't think anything will be done for Gen 8 but once Gen 9 rolls around it depends on what drops and just deal with that for an entire month (ND RU can't do bans or unbans during the first month)
 
The decision of re-testing it was and still is heavily considered but as of right now, pmuch every tier that's not on Gen 9 is barely played, if Gen 8 OU was already almost dead and UU suffering the same fate (with the smallest bit being a random tour like once in a week) then ND RU wouldn't be able to stand up at all.
Gotcha, I totally understand. Even if it's a smaller pool of players though, would it be possible to just put tang on hold officially and state that a retest is likely to be reissued? Could I also ask what the current player activity is like? If possible, could we put together a consensus on how we feel about Tangrowth to at least confirm that it should be retested in the future (i.e. tiering surveys)? I'm just super interested in this tier, and I'd hate to see it go to waste with a whole other mon available that can shake things up.
Echoing what Lupla said. It's a lot easier tiering wise to get something out of a tier after the tier has ended than to bring something in - just compare the quantity of post-gen bans like Gen 6 UU conk to the post-gen unbans. I do think we could host NDRU tours with Tangrowth unbanned on both room and dedicated Smogon tours and make a decision based on that. However, holding a suspect test would be transparent with the community and give us a grace period (say a week) to adjust to Tangrowth in the metagame. Also we might need several tours since I'm not sure how the attendance will turn out to be. Tiering surveys only got ~15 responses which is a fair amount we can expect from the tier. We definitely could ask tour players to give their opinions on a Tang unban and time it with a survey to the public.

At the moment, National Dex RU has seasonal interest from tournament users with set expectations about the tier. That interest coincidentally makes something like banning Slurpuff, Electric Terrain or Hail easier since you can point to tournament replays and say "boom, there's your evidence". With Tangrowth, most arguments for unbanning it (including my own) rests on conjecture. I think Tangrowth has 2.5 excellent, metagame defining sets but both of those sets can be easily inferred based on play (AV v Phys Def differ in a few key targets), hazard damage (since only phys def can bother with boots) and U-turn/Flip Turn - but that's all the argumentation I can offer. Even if I load Tang up vs Dorron and play 15 sets, the sample size is too small.

That's also not discounting the other, related, debate of unbanning Hera. I am against the ban, and I'm sure you would be too as it's like Obstagoon in NDNU, but there are people who do want to see it freed.

I definitely see a Tangrowth unban in the long-run but I doubt we will see it next month given the rumours of what might end up dropping to RU (think former Gen 3 Ubers and resident OU pokemon since gen 1). Keep in mind, Drizzle/Drought and light clay isn't banned either.
 

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