Is there a reason Garchomp is better in Gen 9 Natdex than in the standard OU format?
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Resource National Dex OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers
- Thread starter Solaros & Lunaris
- Start date
1yr
formerly I❤BerryKind
garchomp gets access to z move which is the main set to my knowledge (sd plus z = big damage)
Also they're different metagames, garchomp being able to check threats like charizard-y handily as well as heavily punishing mlop with rough skin give it notable niches when compared to ou
(also i forgot to mention s/v ou has pult in it rn lmao)
can u create a para spam pls ?
1yr
formerly I❤BerryKind
https://pokepast.es/b772b88d811abd7c
i made this in like 3 minutes so sorry if u dont like it feel free to change the blissey set it justs helps a lot with the bulky team the team is meant to spam para and paralyze like half of the other pokemon so that medicham outspeeds and kills everything, feel free to change ferrothorn for jirachi because of jirachis cringy iron head spam
Why is quick claw legal in SVOU but not natdex? I feel in general "luck items" have been poorly handled in the past and some consistency across tiers would be nice given that its original ban was justified as a "policy review" item rather than a specific tiering action. On the other hand Luck items such as Focus Band (10% chance to live any hit) are still legal in natdex. Is there any reason why quick claw is banworthy in natdex but not SVOU other than "I don't like it and it adds nothing to the tier" which realistically is a terrible reason since lots of things are legal that add nothing to the tier.
Since consistency across tiers is being mentioned here, i should add that monotype banned both quick claw and focus band (both in sv, which is an official tier, and in natdex) - the general answer to your question is simply because luck items are generally a very controversial topic, and as a consequence tiering policy around them isn't really well defined, even in official tiers.
Up to them, but there hasn't been any discussions about this currently so it's very unlikely it happens in the immediate future.
Even though i'm a nd community leader, i am not an ndou tier leader (not even council), that's Kyo and Sulo's business.
Is there any way that policy in terms of the Identity of National Dex can change in the future? One of the aspects of National Dex that's always put me off personally is the way that Near-Universal TM's are not learnable by any future Pokemon. While this mainly talks about Hidden Power being unlearnable by Gen 8 and 9 Pokemon, there's also Toxic which is considered a near-universal TM before Gen 8.
The concept of near-universal TM's has always been around since gen 1, with specific Pokemon marked as exceptions, being unable to learn TM's in general. TM-less Pokemon continue to be a thing into Gen 8 and 9, with Blipbug and Applin being specifically designed to not aquire these otherwise universal TM's.
Generally my question is would a Policy Review thread for something like this be on the table? Since the metagame revolves around bringing Pokemon from after Gen 7 into the game, this would imply that they'd be able to learn these universal TM's as well unless they're designated as Pokemon that cannot learn TM's.
Near Universal Moves in gen 7 that have the status revoked in further generations are the following:
- Confide
- Double Team
- Frustration
- Hidden Power
- Return
- Swagger
- Toxic
The concept of near-universal TM's has always been around since gen 1, with specific Pokemon marked as exceptions, being unable to learn TM's in general. TM-less Pokemon continue to be a thing into Gen 8 and 9, with Blipbug and Applin being specifically designed to not aquire these otherwise universal TM's.
Generally my question is would a Policy Review thread for something like this be on the table? Since the metagame revolves around bringing Pokemon from after Gen 7 into the game, this would imply that they'd be able to learn these universal TM's as well unless they're designated as Pokemon that cannot learn TM's.
Near Universal Moves in gen 7 that have the status revoked in further generations are the following:
- Confide
- Double Team
- Frustration
- Hidden Power
- Return
- Swagger
- Toxic
Unless there is a significant push from natdex formats playerbases, a pr thread is very unlikely to happen, especially since universal tms are not a topic brought up often at all in the first place and thus doesn't seem to be generally a concern.
I personally believe National Dex should stick to moves Pokemon or their pre-evolutions actually got, and not arbitrarily give moves that were actually never given to the mons in question, especially since gamefreak sometimes do kind of whatever it wants regarding those moves - they don't even share the same distribution in the first place! Some moves you listed are great examples of that (all these pokemon existed in gen7):
-Magearna does not learn Toxic.
-Pyukumuku has access to some moves through TMs, most notably Rest, but never learnt any of Frustration, Hidden Power or Return.
-Burmy learns Hidden Power, but neither of Frustration or Return.
-Drampa, Guzzlord, Naganadel, Stakataka and Zeraora do not learn Swagger, despite being Pokemon that can learn TMs. Guzzlord and Stakataka also do not learn Confide.
-Tapu Bulu and Stakataka do not learn Double Team.
On an adjacent topic, Tera Blast is also a super odd case introduced in gen9. It is a tm accessible even to the Pokemon that were known to be TM-less (like applin), except Cosmoem, Cosmog, Magikarp, Ditto, and Terapagos - the turtle in particular not even being a TM-less pokemon.
More generally, National Dex should minimize arbitrary decisions as much as possible in my opinion, and even though expanding universal TMs could makes sense on paper, we ultimately cannot know for sure if these moves would have gotten the distribution we would have expected them to have.
what is the justification for these. u said it for urself its "near-universal" not universal, what reasoning / precedent would u use to justify giving these mons these moves? whos to say they arent also the exceptions you mentioned prior. it would be an incredibly arbitrary decision that wouldnt make any sense to include, especially since then you open up the rabbithole for other move discussions, like why cant this pokemon learn this egg move from this yada yada