Project National Dex OU: Break This Core (Week 34: Mega Latias + Kartana + Victini)

[WM2N]

I think the natural play against a Weavile is killing it with close combat rather than switching to a pokemon that Weavile guaranteed one-shots.

It's not, in an actual game you are not fighting against training dummies who can't make half a predict, and u-turn is the best move to click unless there's a lineup of CC kills for lop or smthng.

if the Weavile has scouted your move with Protect. Mega Lopunny's U-Turn does not OHKO Weavile, either, so even in a regular game, staying in and crippling the switch isn't a terrible move. Even if there were other pokemon to switch to that wouldn't be OHKO'd and outsped by Weavile, they'd have to fear a Knock Off removing their item.

Can't believe i have to repeat this but you have to Break this Core, not just trying to make sufficient progress. Failing to such a common scenario isn't something that you would want to submit. Instead of trying to argue that sash weavile is a valid submission, you should probably use the time to make another submission.

I feel like if we start attributing player skill to these "break this core" segments, it quickly becomes almost impossible to guarantee. Take Mega Aerodactyl for example. MAero seems like a good bet, but if Mega Lopunny switches out to Zapdos on a Dual Wingbeat, there's a 51% chance that Mega Aerodactyl gets paralyzed by Static. A similar situation can happen if MAero tries to click Ice Fang vs Gliscor. If it gets paralyzed, it outright loses to MLoppuny's Fake Out + Close Combat. Hell, there's a chance it loses to Modest Zapdos's Volt Switch from full if it gets paralyzed prior. And what if the opponent decides to switch MLop into an Ice Fang/Stone Edge? More Fake Out chip damage, followed by more switches into Zapdos for greater paralysis chance. And if you try and predict the Zapdos switch in, MLoppuny can destroy you with Close Combat while still eating 2 Stone Edges. Assuming perfect play on the part of the player with 3 pokemon vs 1 quickly makes this an exercise in futility, IMHO.

Yea sure predictions are also part of breaking the core effectively, but those predictions from the opponents can be punished with the correct prediction by the user. Sash weavile just can't punish u-turn from lop effectively to break this core, which is a common scenario.

bonus

Ofc some core breakers takes more skill/rely on less luck(involving rolls but it shouldn't be too unlikely, i'd say 75% is the least) to than others, but there's benifit to using them such at being better against the rest of the metagame and vice versa. It's up to the voter's preference whether they can afford having to a mon that has less impact on the metagame or whether they can take the risk of making the wrong predictions/not getting the rolls needed to break the core.

 

[Giyu]

clef

 

[myself12]

clef

 

[WM2N]

Mpert
yea sry for not finishing sequence breaking sections, i'm busy this week

 

[WM2N]

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet / Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- Body Press

Knock knock, who's in the attic? Skarmory delivering spikes and helmet chip.

Calcs+Sequence breaking

Calculation Notes:
Skarmory Max HP: 333
Stealth Rock Damage: 41
Roost Healing: 166

Calcs

Steelbag

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 123-145 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. +2 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 61-73 (18.3 - 21.9%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega U-turn vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 12-14 (3.6 - 4.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Dark Souls

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 171-201 (51.3 - 60.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. +2 248 HP / 164+ Def Skarmory: 84-102 (25.2 - 30.6%) -- approx. 3.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Sequence breaking

Sequence 1(With Stealth Rock up)

Sequence 1: Face off against lopunny

Sequence 2(Stealth Rock is not up)

Sequence 2: Under Construction

 

[K302]

Reserving lele

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

Switch-in against lop or Weaviles Ice shard or Pursuit. Then klick Moonblast twice gg.
They can't touch you with prio cuz of terrain.
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 219-258 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This is basically the only notable calc, lele can't come in with rocks up on an estimated return.

 

[Giyu]

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Surging Strikes
- Thunder Punch
- U-turn

Close Combat, that's it really.

scarf lele won

 

[Weaselfie]

Toxapex @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 64 SpD / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

Physical Def toxapex is able to live hits from both weavile and mega lopunny, and in return can either toxic them, or lay down toxic spikes to wear them down. Toxic Spikes is more preferable since it can also wear down their teammates but is useless if they have a poison type, so pick your poison.

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Toxapex: 97-115 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Toxapex: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[myself12]

scarf kart


Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike

Sacred sword kills all of them. Nothing much to say. Ice shard + fake out does less than 50% total.

 

[Zane102]

Buzzwole @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Leech Life
- Close Combat
I feel buzzwole can be a really big menace and easily lives both hits from the weavile/lopunny even with defenses lower and outspeeds both with a scarf. I feel in general it's a good pick to fake out people with from the normal impish sets you can run and hit hard in return.

CALCS
252 Atk Buzzwole Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 1168-1380 (415.6 - 491.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


252 Atk Buzzwole Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 434-512 (160.1 - 188.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (434, 440, 444, 450, 456, 458, 464, 470, 476, 480, 486, 492, 494, 500, 506, 512)

 

[Kaouse]

Voting is up! Ends Tomorrow!

Why wasn't my Weavile build put up for voting?

 

[WM2N]

Why wasn't my Weavile build put up for voting?

That's simple, it's because the set couldn't semi consistently break the core. Oh there was also this rule for submissions:
"Make sure the mons that you've submitted, have viable sets and spreads and can also be prevalent support for a team."

Switch-in against lop or Weaviles Ice shard or Pursuit.

You might have forgotten that you can't just switch into pursuit, you would need something to absorb the pursuit for lele to switch in on the same turn vile use pursuit unless it already used pursuit the turn prior.
This portion is edited in because i just realised this after posting the first part and didn't really want to double post just for such a short statement

 

[K302]

You might have forgotten that you can't just switch into pursuit, you would need something to absorb the pursuit for lele to switch in on the same turn vile use pursuit unless it already used pursuit the turn prior.

If i didn't mention Pursuit it would have sounded like "you can't came in while weav clicks Pursuit", so i decided to mention it.
I ment that you can theoretically absorb Pursuit with something else and come in. It isn't very realistic that it happens tho.

 

[WM2N]

If i didn't mention Pursuit it would have sounded like "you can't came in while weav clicks Pursuit", so i decided to mention it.
I ment that you can theoretically absorb Pursuit with something else and come in. It isn't very realistic that it happens tho.

Ehhh i guess that explanation also works i thought it was just something that should be noted.

 

[WM2N]

Pex
yea apparently i lied again so 0 sequence breaking :(

 

[myself12]

lele

 

[myself12]

reserving heatran


Heatran @ Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Toxic / Stealth rock

Magma storm kills scizor and weavile, z solar beam is for fini. If ur concerned abound magma storm's inaccuracy, you could run something like erruption, lava plume, or fire blast on the last slot.

Hide

252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor-Mega: 720-852 (209.9 - 248.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
40+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 24-29 (7.4 - 8.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever


252+ SpA Heatran Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Tapu Fini: 290-342 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 144-169 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 408-482 (145.1 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Boomenheimer]

Breaking tie with buzzwole

 

[Giyu]

Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Expert Belt
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up

Zeraora switches into Tapu Fini to use Bulk Up. Considering the opponent probably went into Mega Scizor, you now Bulk Up again and 2HKO with Plasma Fists, OHKO Weavile with Close Combat, and OHKO Tapu Fini with Plasma Fists.

Calculations

->
+2 252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor-Mega: 220-259 (64.1 - 75.5%)

->
+2 252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 1336-1576 (475.4 - 560.8%)

->
+2 252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Tapu Fini: 510-600 (148.6 - 174.9%)

->
40+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Sand Tomb vs. +2 64 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 78-92 (23.4 - 27.6%)

->
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. +2 64 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 58-70 (17.4 - 21%)

 

[Giyu]

tran

 

[hidin]

heatran

 

[myself12]

zeraora

 

[WM2N]

Tran

 

[K302]

Reserving tran

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Protect/Taunt

Heatran can easily tank every Attack from the 3 and retaliate with Magma Storm, Toxic and Eath Power, except Kartanas Sacred Sword, which chunks Heatran.
Protect is an Option to double Leftovers Recover, while Taunt helps against Latias .

Clacs

0 SpA Latias-Mega Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 54-65 (13.9 - 16.8%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery,
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 48-57 (13.2 - 15.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after trapping damage

252 SpA Victini Psychic vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 47-56 (12.1 - 14.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 240-284 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 1288-1516 (497.2 - 585.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[NFGraves]

reserving volcarona

Set:

Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Roost

Pre-boost highest opposing attacks:

252 Atk Kartana Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 130-153 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

8 SpA Latias-Mega Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 165-195 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 169-201 (54.3 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 boost attacks against opposition:

+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 247-292 (72.4 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 350-414 (96.4 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 2392-2820 (923.5 - 1088.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Volcarona, even without bulk, can shake off the attacks of any of the above. After boosting, Volcarona can play roost games with vic/lati to prep for the other players. If Kartana is the initial player then roost spam until flame body activates is the play. Afterward, Volcarona can boost for the rest. The only potential concern would be taking a lati psyshock into a Kart revenge kill.