AG National Dex AG

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kate

Metamodernity
is a Tiering Contributoris a Past SCL Champion
RBTT Champion
Hello! Due to increased development of the tier, sample submissions are now open! Submit worthy teams to this thread with helpful descriptions for the council to vote on. Sample teams will be updated shortly after the conclusion of AGPL and the NDAG Open, so submit fast! We look forward to seeing your teams
 
First of all, I'm sorry for using a translator due to my poor English skills.

I'm a player with the highest score of 1800, but I have two questions about NDAG.

First, why can't ULTRA NECROZMA and MEGA evolution Pokemon do DM?

Second, how does SMEARGLE use 8 generations of MOVE?
 

Will

about you
is an official Team Rater
OMPL Champion
Hey kanato! The reason that Necrozma-Ultra and Mega Pokémon cannot Dynamax is because Dynamax is a unique mechanic which was introduced as a current generation replacement to the Mega-Evolve, Ultra-Burst, and Z-Move mechanics found in previous generations. These mechanics are incompatible as a result of their generational barrier and the unique way in which they work, just like how you would be unable to Mega-Evolve an Ultra-Burst Pokémon or have a Mega-Evolved Pokémon use a Z-Move. To answer your second question: Smeargle has access to the move Sketch and re-learns it every 10 levels in the cartridge game, a move that allows it to "sketch" almost any move in the game. As a result, Smeargle's move pool on Pokémon Showdown! is made expansive to representative of the pool of moves it's theoretically able to obtain.

I hope this clears up any questions you had!
 
Last edited:

Unicorns

Banned deucer.
Here are the cumulative usage stats for the recent ND AG open (starting from round 5)! Congrats to tournament winner Kate (cute) and thank you to all of the participants!

National Dex AG Open Usage Stats (round 5 - end)

Moves and Teammates | Combos
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| -    | Arceus-*           |   90 | 140.62% |  55.56% |
| 1    | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane |   43 |  67.19% |  51.16% |
| 1    | Yveltal            |   43 |  67.19% |  48.84% |
| 3    | Rayquaza           |   27 |  42.19% |  51.85% |
| 4    | Groudon            |   26 |  40.62% |  57.69% |
| 5    | Zacian-*           |   23 |  35.94% |  47.83% |
| 6    | Ditto              |   22 |  34.38% |  68.18% |
| 7    | Calyrex-Shadow     |   18 |  28.12% |  44.44% |
| 8    | Arceus-Ground      |   15 |  23.44% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Xerneas-*          |   12 |  18.75% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Kyogre             |   11 |  17.19% |  45.45% |
| 11   | Arceus-Water       |    9 |  14.06% |  55.56% |
| 12   | Ho-Oh              |    8 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Marshadow          |    7 |  10.94% |  42.86% |
| 14   | Arceus-Dark        |    6 |   9.38% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Arceus             |    6 |   9.38% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Chansey            |    6 |   9.38% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Eternatus          |    6 |   9.38% |  33.33% |
| 14   | Smeargle           |    6 |   9.38% |  33.33% |
| 19   | Deoxys-Speed       |    5 |   7.81% |  40.00% |
| 19   | Arceus-Fairy       |    5 |   7.81% |  40.00% |
| 21   | Arceus-Dragon      |    4 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 22   | Gengar             |    3 |   4.69% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Zygarde            |    3 |   4.69% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Excadrill          |    3 |   4.69% |  33.33% |
| 22   | Landorus-Therian   |    3 |   4.69% |  33.33% |
| 22   | Sableye            |    3 |   4.69% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Shuckle            |    2 |   3.12% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Dialga             |    2 |   3.12% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Quagsire           |    2 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Lugia              |    2 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Arceus-Ghost       |    2 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Giratina           |    2 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Kartana            |    1 |   1.56% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Vivillon-Marine    |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Lunala             |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Arceus-Steel       |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Vivillon-Icy Snow  |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Arceus-Flying      |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Arceus-Electric    |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Pheromosa          |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Tyranitar          |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Arceus-Rock        |    1 |   1.56% |   0.00% |
 

Ainzcrad

Smile of the Orchid
is a Tiering Contributor
Alr with agpl about to end might aswell post some of the teams i was either planning/used for agpl

:marshadow::yveltal::necrozma_dusk_mane::arceus_dark::arceus_ground::zacian: W5
:arceus_dragon::arceus_water::arceus_fairy::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::zacian: W4
:kyogre::necrozma_dusk_mane::arceus_dark::rayquaza_mega::zacian::arceus_ground: W2

Other teams I build as other options for each respective week,
:toxapex::arceus_water::groudon_primal::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::calyrex_shadow:
:arceus_water::arceus_ground::arceus_fairy::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::zacian:
:arceus_ground::eternatus::arceus_water::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::zacian:
:arceus_steel::arceus_ground::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::zacian::rayquaza_mega:
:arceus_water::arceus_dark::arceus_ground::necrozma_dusk_mane::eternatus::rayquaza_mega:

Tnx again cro for drafting me for agpl, s/o to benfor a bit of help on fine tuning some of these teams
 
arceus-ground.gif.m.1532458525.gif

I think Arceus-ground is S+.

First, defensive arceus blocks jolly ZAC and RAY.

Second, the sword dance Arceus-ground is one of the most threatening physical attackers in the ag.

Third, calm mind Arceus-ground is the most threatening special attacker now that ho-oh has disappeared.
 
I think its time we nom the goat, the based, mega medicham, atleast d tier but i can also c a c tier nom :medicham-mega:
so hes a big guy yeah? now on paper it sounds like its worse mega rayquaza, however i think it has some cool trait over mega ray, specifically on webs.
1) not rocks weak, choice banded, or life orb, which gives it more chances to wallbreak/ flinch its checks
speaking of flinch
2) zen headbutt flinchrate. sounds stupidyes but it allows it to pull off some really scummy stuff against its checks.
3) doesnt lose momentum as hard after beating dusk mane. hjk 2hkos dusk on the switch, unlike mega ray which unless ur using band on hyper offense(lol) you need to v create to beat it reliably
4) bullet punch hits caly unlike mray's espeed
5) can run ice punch to hit stuff like lugia, zygarde, etc
cool calcs:
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 216-255 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 139-165 (31.3 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
just need 1 flinch
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 87-103 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 164-194 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
multiscale is not real and cannot hurt me
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Yveltal: 366-432 (80.4 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Ground: 226-267 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

cool wallbreaker deserves to be ranked imo
replays: dont have any ::((
teams with it: :medicham-mega: :smeargle: :yveltal: :necrozma-ultra: :calyrex-shadow: :xerneas:
pretty standard xern-yve-caly-dusk mane core with medicham and whirlwind smeargle.
whirl smeargle is cool for forcing opponent to do certain things if they want to either keep hazards off or not let multiple mons be paralyzed, which allows medi and the other sweepers get in and do funny things
no rapid spin because team doesnt rlly care abt hazards
 
Mega Medicham does have impressive damage output, however it is totally outclassed by:
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Low Kick
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge/Zen Headbutt
Which is already a pretty niche set due to Calyrex-S rendering a large amount of AG's Psychic attackers unviable. It does however have the upside of luring traditional Mewtwo counterplay, such as Arceus-Dark, on the Mega turn.
Mega Medicham has the following flaws which make it unviable in AG:
1. Weak speed. Base 100 falls short of Adamant Mega Rayquaza. You do not want to give free turns to Adamant Mega Rayquaza. While very few mons do switch into Mega Medicham, a very, very large number can force it out or KO it given a free switch. (This is one of the areas MMX outclasses it in thanks to its very nifty, though not great, base 130 speed).
2. Poor defensive typing and bulk. A Ghost weakness just begs for Calyrex-S to revenge it. A fairy weakness doesn't do it any favours either. However, this doesn't really matter because most uninvested neutral STABs OHKO or badly cripple Mega Medicham, for instance:
0 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 246-291 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 195-231 (74.7 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 183-216 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (notably never lives Knock into Sunsteel)
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 174-205 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 169-201 (64.7 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Again, dies to Flamethrower into Dmax Cannon)
0 Atk Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 111-132 (42.5 - 50.5%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (sadly the most favourable calc I could find for it VS an AG staple)
This, combined with point 1, means that Mega Medicham is hence reliant on getting free switch-ins due to being unable to come in on anything, and also actually struggles to force out most Pokemon to get a free turn and attack a check on the switch. The vast majority of the AG metagame can take one hit from Mega Medicham and retaliate, or outspeed and OHKO it. (Notably T-Wave Nec-DM wins 1v1 surprisingly often by Twaving, and then spamming Morning Sun waiting for full para and/or a HJK miss. With a Ghost in the back this is even easier.) (This is also another area MMX outclasses by having the bulk to take, for instance, uninvested PBlades. It also has Taunt to shut down troublesome status.)
3. Eating up a Mega Slot in AG. You have to have a very, very good reason to use any Mega over Mega Ray. Mega Ray's bottomless movepool, free item slot and absurd stats allows it to accomplish feats like:
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 183-216 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (What was that you were saying about it not beating Nec-DM?)
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Groudon-Primal: 231-274 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Who needs coverage lol)
In addition, its great bulk, Ability and typing offer numerous opportunities to switch into AG staples and set up a Dragon Dance on one of the many, many forced switches it creates. After a single Dragon Dance Mega Ray becomes near-impossible to answer:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Groudon-Primal: 347-409 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (bye)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 641-756 (187.9 - 221.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (how cute, he thinks he's faster)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 365-429 (91.7 - 107.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (How nice of this passive mon to let me Dragon Dance a second time. Sunsteel struggles to do half.)
(This problem is also one that faces MMX. This, and Calyrex breathing down its neck, is why it is UR.)
multiscale is not real and cannot hurt me
Neither is Lugia lol. I'd suggest one of LO Marshadow, LO Mega Ray, or Zacian-C if you're in the market for a devastating physical wallbreaker that is viable in AG. Probably Marsh considering your team has a pretty gaping Caly weakness if Webs get removed, especially VS Scarf Calyrex.
 
I have a nom!

2ff2fd1d44607f7ef278a0f4755de1ae.jpg >> S

This walls AND (almost) breaks Zacian-Crowned, Rayquaza-Mega, and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane.

Groudon-Primal is the most reliable Stealth Rock setter because of its massive Defense stat and its usage with Thu(n)der Wave (lmao), which paralyses other hazard setters such as Skarmory, Deoxys-Speed, and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, and also Roar which phazes Geomancy or Z-Geomancy Xerneas amd Smeargle.

It can't also be paralyzed and can't be burned.
 
I have a nom!

View attachment 383286 >> S

This walls AND (almost) breaks Zacian-Crowned, Rayquaza-Mega, and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane.

Groudon-Primal is the most reliable Stealth Rock setter because of its massive Defense stat and its usage with Thu(n)der Wave (lmao), which paralyses other hazard setters such as Skarmory, Deoxys-Speed, and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, and also Roar which phazes Geomancy or Z-Geomancy Xerneas amd Smeargle.

It can't also be paralyzed and can't be burned.
Hi, welcome to Nat Dex AG!

Thanks for your nom. Pdon is indeed an extremely powerful choice in the Nat Dex AG metagame for its potential hazard setting freeing up a slot on Nec-DM, ability to 1-time check most of Nat Dex's dangerous physical breakers, and offensive potential that doesn't rely on Dyna, which lands it in A+ right now.

However, Pdon does have a few flaws that keep it out of the S ranks:
1. 0 recovery outside Rest. This makes Pdon easy to wear down with hazards and Toxic over time, while it also struggles to repeatedly handle threats. Rest Pdon is viable but gives free turns to a variety of dangerous breakers due to Pdon not having a spare moveslot for Sleep Talk.
2. Inability to Dyna can count against it when trying to defensively answer Zacian.
3. Its best offensive check in Arceus-Ground has never been more successful, currently residing in S. Being potential setup fodder for such a dangerous breaker massively counts against it, as does potential competition from it (stacking Grounds can work due to Kyogre's current problems, but it still presents certain challenges in building).
4. Most purely defensive Pdon are SpD in order to answer Xern and reliably switch into Primal Kyogre. This prevents Pdon checking Mega Ray... at all.

Aside: Roar is a suboptimal choice on Pdon due to its access to Dragon Tail, and Dynamax blocking phazing. (Z-Geo Xern is not a relevant set because of Marshadow.)

When writing noms in future, assume the person reading understands the basics and is reasonably familiar with the metagame. We know Pdon can't be burnt and is immune to Twave (note: it can be para'ed by Glare from Zygod). We know Zac-C is a dangerous physical breaker that Pdon can check. We know Ditto holds Choice Scarf. Your job is to explain what in the metagame has changed to warrant a Pdon rise, or why it is currently misplaced (have good reasons if you try for the latter, the VR people know what they're doing).

Thanks and have fun playing!
 
When writing noms in future, assume the person reading understands the basics and is reasonably familiar with the metagame. We know Pdon can't be burnt and is immune to Twave (note: it can be para'ed by Glare from Zygod). We know Zac-C is a dangerous physical breaker that Pdon can check. We know Ditto holds Choice Scarf. Your job is to explain what in the metagame has changed to warrant a Pdon rise, or why it is currently misplaced (have good reasons if you try for the latter, the VR people know what they're doing).

Thanks and have fun playing!
Maybe leave this type of statement to the forum mods or the VR people that know what they’re doing.
 

Ainzcrad

Smile of the Orchid
is a Tiering Contributor
Hiya wanted to post the teams i build for the delcatties for ndpl! Some of these are unused since :blobshrug: but still felt like posting em

Week 1
:rayquaza_mega::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::arceus_ground::calyrex_shadow::arceus_water: v Lillburr

Week 3
:yveltal::necrozma_dusk_mane::arceus_water::arceus_dark::rayquaza_mega::calyrex_shadow: v Trashuny
:arceus_ground::yveltal::necrozma_dusk_mane::zacian_crowned::ho_oh::groudon_primal: v Trashuny 2

Week 5
:zacian_crowned::gothitelle::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::arceus_water::magearna: v Nevelle

Week 6
:groudon_primal::arceus_water::necrozma_dusk_mane::arceus_ground::eternatus::yveltal: v Ballfire R1
:rayquaza_mega::necrozma_dusk_mane::arceus_water::arceus_dark::yveltal::arceus_ground: v Crying R1

Week 7
:arceus_poison::zacian_crowned::arceus_water::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::rayquaza_mega: v FC
Semi-Finals
:kyogre::zacian_crowned::rayquaza_mega::necrozma_dusk_mane::arceus_water::yveltal: v Ballfire R2
:arceus_electric::arceus_ground::zacian_crowned::necrozma_dusk_mane::yveltal::arceus_water: v Crying R2
 
Hello everyone. I'm looking to get into this format for the first time and I'm wondering if Baton Pass teams are any good here? If so, then would someone be able to point me in the direction of a good team I can use? Thanks!
 
Hello everyone. I'm looking to get into this format for the first time and I'm wondering if Baton Pass teams are any good here? If so, then would someone be able to point me in the direction of a good team I can use? Thanks!
Hi there! Baton Pass is a very important strategy in Nat Dex AG, however it's not always used as an entire team. Such teams are viable (and are usually randomly bought to and win at least 1 game every tour), however I wanted to quickly mention a couple of different styles of BP besides FullPass.

Baton Pass Calyrex
Calyrex-Shadow @ Leftovers/Ghostium Z/Life Orb/Buginium Z/Focus Sash
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Astral Barrage
- Baton Pass
- Substitute/Psyshock/Draining Kiss/Pollen Puff
Behold, the defining set of AG. This set allows Calyrex-S to abuse its usual switch-ins in bulky Yveltal and Arceus-Dark by Baton Passing Nasty Plot boosts and/or potential Subs too. Many of Nat Dex's most dangerous breakers are essentially unwallable with a free +2 SpA and entry on a relatively passive Dark type to boot. Baton Pass additionally allows for escaping potential Pursuit trapping from the occasional Tyranitar. Leftovers is typical with Sub to allow Calyrex the ability to set more Subs and resist residual damage. Ghostium is an alternative nuke that allows Calyrex to kickstart a snowball sweep/get a free kill and +1 boost against a foe that expected to take an unboosted hit and force it out, like (admittedly rare now) max/max Zacian-C. Psyshock gives a secondary STAB to make Calyrex a better solo sweeper against Normal types like Blissey. LO+Draining Kiss can be used to add longevity and OHKO bulky Yveltal with +2 Max Starfall. Pollen Puff+Buginum gives an alternative nuke that pastes many common Dark-types at +2. Sash together with decent hazard control lets Caly-S beat things 1v1/BP in front of things it shouldn't.
You can essentially almost throw this set onto any team with another special/mixed breaker that abuses Caly's normal checks (Mixed Mega Ray, GeoXern, LO YGod, Eternatus etc etc). The only consideration is whether your team would appreciate a different Calyrex set more really.

SmashPass
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody/Own Tempo
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Taunt/Substitute
This set is pretty self-explanatory. Moody can screw you sometimes so Own Tempo is a valid choice, but Moody can also break the game. Best paired with HO staples like Webs Smeargle/other suicide leads+3-4 breakers/sweepers. Pretty much anything on the receiving end wins with all those boosts, but Mega Ray stands out due to Extreme Speed access, fitting well on Webs even if it doesn't receive boosts and naturally high stats to boost.

(there is also Magearna, but it's basically budget Caly-GG)

FullPass
FullPass (using 6 Pokemon with Baton Pass to pass around stat boosts until you win) remains extremely efficient at match-up fishing non-Ditto teams in Gen 8. Thanks to no Evasion Clause in AG, Baton Passing Minimise allows mons to get plenty of free turns to boost. I don't have any teams of this to hand (and I suck lol) but here's a pre DLC-2 replay so you know what you're looking for:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1097399783-975uag1y8tv1lh48q0hkqgn7xx8mvvopw
Checklist For Good FullPass:
Espeon (STAB Stored Power+Magic Guard)
Smeargle (Normal type+Ingrain+Moody)
Way to raise evasion
Speed-boosting lead
Counterplay to Haze, Roar and Perish Song (Soundproof and/or Taunt)
Yveltal check
Zacian check
Caly-GG check
GeoXern check (by "check", I don't mean it should have to beat any of these 1v1, just has to be able to defensively boost and/or stall Dyna in front of them until they are no longer a threat)
Just in general be careful of Dyna'ed mons, Max Moves always hit and you can't really Dmax back. Your best bet is acquiring a Speed advantage and spamming Sub until Dyna wears off. Also, you see a Ditto, you either keep up a Sub at all costs or click X.

So that's a quick (and slightly bad) overview of Baton Pass in Nat Dex AG! Just remember Calyrex is OP and you'll be fine! (For teams, I recommend checking out the commencement threads of big tours like AGPL III, they usually have a few teamdumps at the end of them so you can pick a couple you like, just make sure you pick a Nat Dex one lol.)
 
Hi there! Baton Pass is a very important strategy in Nat Dex AG, however it's not always used as an entire team. Such teams are viable (and are usually randomly bought to and win at least 1 game every tour), however I wanted to quickly mention a couple of different styles of BP besides FullPass.

Baton Pass Calyrex
Calyrex-Shadow @ Leftovers/Ghostium Z/Life Orb/Buginium Z/Focus Sash
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Astral Barrage
- Baton Pass
- Substitute/Psyshock/Draining Kiss/Pollen Puff
Behold, the defining set of AG. This set allows Calyrex-S to abuse its usual switch-ins in bulky Yveltal and Arceus-Dark by Baton Passing Nasty Plot boosts and/or potential Subs too. Many of Nat Dex's most dangerous breakers are essentially unwallable with a free +2 SpA and entry on a relatively passive Dark type to boot. Baton Pass additionally allows for escaping potential Pursuit trapping from the occasional Tyranitar. Leftovers is typical with Sub to allow Calyrex the ability to set more Subs and resist residual damage. Ghostium is an alternative nuke that allows Calyrex to kickstart a snowball sweep/get a free kill and +1 boost against a foe that expected to take an unboosted hit and force it out, like (admittedly rare now) max/max Zacian-C. Psyshock gives a secondary STAB to make Calyrex a better solo sweeper against Normal types like Blissey. LO+Draining Kiss can be used to add longevity and OHKO bulky Yveltal with +2 Max Starfall. Pollen Puff+Buginum gives an alternative nuke that pastes many common Dark-types at +2. Sash together with decent hazard control lets Caly-S beat things 1v1/BP in front of things it shouldn't.
You can essentially almost throw this set onto any team with another special/mixed breaker that abuses Caly's normal checks (Mixed Mega Ray, GeoXern, LO YGod, Eternatus etc etc). The only consideration is whether your team would appreciate a different Calyrex set more really.

SmashPass
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody/Own Tempo
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Taunt/Substitute
This set is pretty self-explanatory. Moody can screw you sometimes so Own Tempo is a valid choice, but Moody can also break the game. Best paired with HO staples like Webs Smeargle/other suicide leads+3-4 breakers/sweepers. Pretty much anything on the receiving end wins with all those boosts, but Mega Ray stands out due to Extreme Speed access, fitting well on Webs even if it doesn't receive boosts and naturally high stats to boost.

(there is also Magearna, but it's basically budget Caly-GG)

FullPass
FullPass (using 6 Pokemon with Baton Pass to pass around stat boosts until you win) remains extremely efficient at match-up fishing non-Ditto teams in Gen 8. Thanks to no Evasion Clause in AG, Baton Passing Minimise allows mons to get plenty of free turns to boost. I don't have any teams of this to hand (and I suck lol) but here's a pre DLC-2 replay so you know what you're looking for:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1097399783-975uag1y8tv1lh48q0hkqgn7xx8mvvopw
Checklist For Good FullPass:
Espeon (STAB Stored Power+Magic Guard)
Smeargle (Normal type+Ingrain+Moody)
Way to raise evasion
Speed-boosting lead
Counterplay to Haze, Roar and Perish Song (Soundproof and/or Taunt)
Yveltal check
Zacian check
Caly-GG check
GeoXern check (by "check", I don't mean it should have to beat any of these 1v1, just has to be able to defensively boost and/or stall Dyna in front of them until they are no longer a threat)
Just in general be careful of Dyna'ed mons, Max Moves always hit and you can't really Dmax back. Your best bet is acquiring a Speed advantage and spamming Sub until Dyna wears off. Also, you see a Ditto, you either keep up a Sub at all costs or click X.

So that's a quick (and slightly bad) overview of Baton Pass in Nat Dex AG! Just remember Calyrex is OP and you'll be fine! (For teams, I recommend checking out the commencement threads of big tours like AGPL III, they usually have a few teamdumps at the end of them so you can pick a couple you like, just make sure you pick a Nat Dex one lol.)
Sorry for the late reply, but thank you so much for taking the time to give a detailed explanation! I will definitely be giving this format a shot now; very much appreciated. :)
 
i have a nom... agin!
Zarude.png
monkey UR > B- !
this is one of the checks for calyrex-s used in ubers and even a kyogre check! it smashes alot of thing like gothitelle, groundceus, kyogre, calyrex-s, and even quagsire. it could learn jungle healing, a move that recover ¼ of its hp and healing any status it gets, or synthesis to recover more hp. it is also immune to spore or leedh seed.
zarude is appropriate to sun teams bcuz it has leafguard and synthesis (which recovers ¾ of its hp in sun).
it has a couple of flaws tho, like sacred fire or pdon, and its even 4x to bug( but who cares?)

i like using monkey in ubers. and i hope ag is a bit like ubers. zarude is worth also using here.
 
i have a nom... agin!
View attachment 398144
monkey UR > B- !
this is one of the checks for calyrex-s used in ubers and even a kyogre check! it smashes alot of thing like gothitelle, groundceus, kyogre, calyrex-s, and even quagsire. it could learn jungle healing, a move that recover ¼ of its hp and healing any status it gets, or synthesis to recover more hp. it is also immune to spore or leedh seed.
zarude is appropriate to sun teams bcuz it has leafguard and synthesis (which recovers ¾ of its hp in sun).
it has a couple of flaws tho, like sacred fire or pdon, and its even 4x to bug( but who cares?)

i like using monkey in ubers. and i hope ag is a bit like ubers. zarude is worth also using here.
Hello again!

Unfortunately, Zarude's main niches in Ubers do not translate well to National Dex AG. Due to the omnipresence of Primal Groudon, Eternatus, Arceus-Water and to some degree Mega Rayquaza, being a Specs Kyogre check is a much less notable niche in Nat Dex AG. Zarude is also setup fodder for the very dangerous, albeit now rare, Dynamax Hidden Power Flying Kyogre, which was Kyogre's main set pre-Calyrex.

While Zarude can still check ZyGod here, it cannot check most Primal Groudon (for hopefully obvious reasons), and it also struggles with the most dominant Ground in the meta, Arceus-Ground. Fast Calm Mind sets simply boost on the switch, then 2HKO with Ice Beam and defensive sets have passable odds to actually take Power Whips by spamming Recover until one misses if desperate. Not to mention in general having your check to the two most dangerous breakers in the current metagame be the same mon is doubtless going to create overload issues.
0 Atk Zarude Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Ground: 194-230 (43.6 - 51.8%) -- 64.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 10.9% without Steath Rock
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Zarude: 140-166 (33.8 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (so switching in is a big risk).

And that Bug weakness does matter. Calyrex-S gains extra options in Nat Dex AG, most notably in this case, the ability to run Bugium Z alongside Pollen Puff on Nasty Plot sets. Which uh,
252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Pollen Puff vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Zarude: 432-512 (104.3 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah, never mind. In both versions of AG, Calyrex can also use Dynamax to bypass Yveltal with the combination of Life Orb+Max Starfall. Due to Zarude needing Speed to do its job of checking Kyogre by outspeeding it, it is pretty easy to chip into range without even needing Dynamax.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Calyrex-Shadow Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Zarude: 312-369 (75.3 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Calyrex-Shadow Max Starfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zarude: 504-595 (121.7 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (just to show investing more bulk really doesn't help)

Finally, it's worth noting that due to the presence of Pursuit (Mega) Tyranitar and Arceus-Dark, Zarude has increased competition as a Calyrex check, and hence struggles to stand out even more than it already does.

Then again, we have Lugia still ranked. This can't possibly be that bad. Maybe it can get ranked at D. It does check Zygod after all, and that's a pain in the neck to do without slapping a Perish Trapper Arceus on basically every team or mashing the Ice Beam button like a madman. Then again again, the general power level of AG and the difficulties you cause yourself by using a mon that is obvious Zacian bait probably make this unviable. I'd file it under "needs way more testing".
 
https://pokepast.es/411c71ae2eba1a8e

unknown.png


Sorry, first post on here, not sure how to do the team showcase mini sprites thing.

Anyways, I wanted to show my National Dex AG Stall team I have been playing for a month now. (Warning I am very bad and still dont know all type matchups yet). However this team has helped me climb all the way to 1600 and is very very easy to use.

I have Fairy Arceus in here because I was running into problems with Yveltal + Knockoff. This checks those threats and also is the teams one source of "damage". I have will-o-wisp on it because most teams swap to steel wall after swap in so this can hopefully get a burn on those un-toxicable steel types. Its IV's are high in defense because of the KnockOff. Its really just here because the threat of knockoff on Giratina or Chansey is very scary. One thing to mention is to becareful of dynamax + fairy. I didnt know what the mist did at first so I wasted some turns my first few times trying the team.

Next Giratina, Giratina is just a solid wall to almost anything, I use him as my defog mon and as a safe swap to a lot of fighting mons that swap into chansey. Giratina can check groudon easily with toxic and defog incase of stealth rock.

Chansey is just here because is Chansey. Massive SPD wall. Only thing that can check chansey are Atk mons. Also psystrike is very scary, this is why I have 252 IV's on Chansey just so it can survive at least 1. Now the weird part is how my chansey has wish and soft-boiled. At first it was soft-boiled + teleport, however I was usually just swapped instantly out because chansey could barely survive some atk mons. Therefor I went with wish + protect. However I then just went with with + soft-boiled. Not sure why exactly but it feels good. I use wish to start and if they swap the turn I use wish I use it as a "psudo" teleport and it allows me to get another safe swap in and a heal on another mon.

Gliscor is probably the weirdest mon on the list. The big reason I have gliscor is for the somewhat rare, recycle no attack move pp mons and as a safe swap in from steel types. At first I had lugia with boots, however I found it to be just way to weak as a wall and my team was lacking in counters to steel so I went with Gliscor. Still something better probably like Groudon, but I have not gotten far enough into guessing what that might be.

Sableye-Mega is here as a counter to sleep powder + sticky webs. Sticky webs doesnt really do much against this team however its still nice to bounce. The main reason he is here is because of magic bounce though. A lot of applications with this ability and Sableye's moveset is really nice allowing it to learn recover and toxic to help with the stall.

Last is Quagsire, pretty much the same Quagsire as other people use, rocky helm + high def = counter to Zacian. Also haze is really nice as a counter to smeargle baton pass stuff. He also counters the sometime usage of multihit moves like urshifu rapid strike and such. Just a big counter to Zacian.

Thats it, like I said at the top, sorry for bad explanations and weird stuff. I started playing Smogon around 2 months ago and still have a lot to learn about the meta and such.

Any suggestions are welcome as I still am very new and still learning.
 
Last edited:
https://pokepast.es/411c71ae2eba1a8e

View attachment 399744

Sorry, first post on here, not sure how to do the team showcase mini sprites thing.

Anyways, I wanted to show my National Dex AG Stall team I have been playing for a month now. (Warning I am very bad and still dont know all type matchups yet). However this team has helped me climb all the way to 1600 and is very very easy to use.

I have Fairy Arceus in here because I was running into problems with Yveltal + Knockoff. This checks those threats and also is the teams one source of "damage". I have will-o-wisp on it because most teams swap to steel wall after swap in so this can hopefully get a burn on those un-toxicable steel types. Its IV's are high in defense because of the KnockOff. Its really just here because the threat of knockoff on Giratina or Chansey is very scary. One thing to mention is to becareful of dynamax + fairy. I didnt know what the mist did at first so I wasted some turns my first few times trying the team.

Next Giratina, Giratina is just a solid wall to almost anything, I use him as my defog mon and as a safe swap to a lot of fighting mons that swap into chansey. Giratina can check groudon easily with toxic and defog incase of stealth rock.

Chansey is just here because is Chansey. Massive SPD wall. Only thing that can check chansey are Atk mons. Also psystrike is very scary, this is why I have 252 IV's on Chansey just so it can survive at least 1. Now the weird part is how my chansey has wish and soft-boiled. At first it was soft-boiled + teleport, however I was usually just swapped instantly out because chansey could barely survive some atk mons. Therefor I went with wish + protect. However I then just went with with + soft-boiled. Not sure why exactly but it feels good. I use wish to start and if they swap the turn I use wish I use it as a "psudo" teleport and it allows me to get another safe swap in and a heal on another mon.

Gliscor is probably the weirdest mon on the list. The big reason I have gliscor is for the somewhat rare, recycle no attack move pp mons and as a safe swap in from steel types. At first I had lugia with boots, however I found it to be just way to weak as a wall and my team was lacking in counters to steel so I went with Gliscor. Still something better probably like Groudon, but I have not gotten far enough into guessing what that might be.

Sableye-Mega is here as a counter to sleep powder + sticky webs. Sticky webs doesnt really do much against this team however its still nice to bounce. The main reason he is here is because of magic bounce though. A lot of applications with this ability and Sableye's moveset is really nice allowing it to learn recover and toxic to help with the stall.

Last is Quagsire, pretty much the same Quagsire as other people use, rocky helm + high def = counter to Zacian. Also haze is really nice as a counter to smeargle baton pass stuff. He also counters the sometime usage of multihit moves like urshifu rapid strike and such. Just a big counter to Zacian.

Thats it, like I said at the top, sorry for bad explanations and weird stuff. I started playing Smogon around 2 months ago and still have a lot to learn about the meta and such.

Any suggestions are welcome as I still am very new and still learning.
The first thing I notice is that your team really struggles with one of the most common Calyrex-Shadow sets (Focus Sash, Nasty Plot + Psyshock). As soon as you see Calyrex-Shadow on team preview, you can't really lead Giratina or Quagsire. Of the remaining mons, all of them still go significantly negative.

If you lead Gliscor, Calyrex Nasty Plots, you bring it to 1%, and then it OHKOs you with Max Mindstorm. At that point, you have to bring in Chansey. Calyrex then Max Starfalls to prevent the Toxic. When Dynamax wears off, it 2HKOs you with Psyshock, and then you have to choose between bringing in Sableye (which can net the kill if Toxic lands but also dies) or Quagsire (which only has a 6% chance of getting OHKOed, but really does not appreciate being hit for 85-100%).

If you lead Chansey, you get turn 1 Toxic, but it sets up in your face, kills you with Psyshock, and then sweeps the rest of your team.

If you lead Sableye, you get your choice between turn 1 Toxic or Foul Play, and depending on which you choose, things play out similarly to if you had led Gliscor or Chansey.

If you lead Arceus-Fairy, you have a choice between turn 1 Judgment or Calm Mind. Either way, Calyrex KOs you and gets to +3. I believe the best option is Judgment, as that denies Calyrex the opportunity to KO your Arceus with Max Starfall, meaning you can immediately come in with Sableye to priority Toxic. You then lose Sableye, and have to bring in Quagsire, which the opponent can choose to KO with Dynamax (in which case it gets walled by Chansey and dies to poison damage) or leave it with max 15% HP (or get the OHKO 6% of the time), effectively nullifying its main usefulness as a Zacian counter.

I might be overlooking some better lines, but suffice it to say that your team struggles with Calyrex-Shadow, and these are only considering Calyrex leads. You also have to consider what happens if they get a switch-in that allows them a safe Nasty Plot. For example, if they have Zacian and Calyrex-Shadow, they can force you into Quagsire with Zacian, swing once or twice to incentivize you to Recover, and hard switch to Calyrex, essentially forcing one of your worst lead matchups.

This problem would be somewhat alleviated by running a damaging Max move on your Arceus-Fairy or by adding something with Sucker Punch, and it would be remedied entirely by running Arceus-Dark instead of Arceus-Fairy, which will work much better on a stall team than adding a Sucker Punch mon.
 

Amberr

Banned deucer.
ty to sunesis for the idea and for regging the worlds worst alt

"At least bugceus gets memed about, Does anyone even use this thing?"- A psyceus showcase

Arceus-Psychic @ Mind Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Recover
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Do you want to have a stab that hits nothing in the meta for more then around 30% health? Do you want to only be able to kill calyrex shadow on webs while still having little to no defensive capabilities? Well have i got a treat for you!
Jokes aside, I've had a lot of run running smeargle webs with this thing and it can stay unrated as far as i care so this isnt a nom post, but instead, a curious potential for psyspam if you for some reason want to run arceus on it i guess?
252+ Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Psychic: 351-413 (81.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mind Plate Arceus-Psychic Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 390-462 (121.4 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(after shell smash ig) +2 252+ Atk Arceus-Psychic Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 272-320 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Psychic: 116-136 (26.9 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Psychic: 234-276 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(you can bait a switchin tldr)
With 56 speed evs, you creep timid non scarf calyrex shadows when webs are up, allowing you to practically no damage unless you have a boost from another teammate, which allows for the alternative of excadrill AND smeargle, making it actually a mediocre fit on a Hyper offensive team, But in the end, this really is just a worse Deoxys-Attack.

Another potential use is the defensive option when we decide to go back to using psyspam on ladder constantly (hurry up on the new rmt someone) but the main defensive usage is likely to be Unecro, probably running (cont. below)
Arceus-Psychic @ Mind Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Ice Beam
set, as with some prediction this can deal with many of the offensive threats towards it (yveltal, mashadow, mega rayquaza, ect.) except for calyrex shadow of course, another potential use would be to soft check Mega Gengar (if you're above 50% hp that is), it also can wall the rare mega lucario and mega blaziken and mmx, also checks toxapex. thats abt it thanks for reading


UR->UR
nominating to keep it where it belongs %)
 
Last edited:
I need posts for ou tutoring, so here's an arceus ice nom.

UR-> D

This thing is a meme, but it does check some top meta threats successfully while being set up fodder for others.

The only viable set is offensive, defensive iceceus is a joke.

Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 172 HP / 84 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Judgment
- Stone Edge/Stealth Rock/Fireblast/Toxic

252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 354-417 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Earthquake vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 197-232 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO
84 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 324-384 (92.3 - 109.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
84 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Judgment vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 676-804 (165.6 - 197%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 84 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 416-492 (93.6 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
84 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 236-282 (51.8 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Arceus-Ground Stone Edge vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 352-416 (83 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 224 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 306-361 (72.1 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
84 SpA Arceus-Ice Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 138-163 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With 252 Spe and Timid, this set speedties with other offensive arceus formes while outspeeding mray, yveltal, and support arceus formes. However it's still slower than unec, mgar, caly shadow and zacian.

With 172 HP evs, it survives choice band dascent from mray, and ohkos back with rocks chip or life orb chip. Iceceus has a pretty good roll to ohko support groundceus after a +1 cm boost, and ohkos after +2. Iceceus always ohkos zygarde without spa investment while being able to survive a +4 atk zygarde arrows and surviving a +1 and +2 zygarde arrows which allows you to beat zygarde even with sub up. It survives a +2 groundceus stone edge, however it does lose to tectonic rage. Recover is recover which helps minimizes chip and attacks from support arceus formes, while cm allows you to ohko some stuff and do more against things like ndm with fireblast. You need a good defogger to prevent rocks from destroying you though.

For the last moveslot, stone edge 2hkos ho-oh and beats the ho-oh switch in if you predict. Fire blast does decent damage to ndm, 3hkoing it and can beat hurt ndm on the switch in. Stealth rock is stealth rock, and helps with some calcs. Toxic beats other non refresh support arceus formes, such as darkceus and waterceus. However it does nothing against poisonceus though and you're forced out on rockceus.

Iceceus is bad, but it isn't that bad. It does require good counters to it's counters.

The popularity of things like ndm, marsh and zacian prevent it from being good, but I think it's good enough for D or at least a bit of consideration. Part of me thinks it belongs in UR but then I need posts and its not that terrible.

Honestly the thing is just matchup fishing against zygarde lol.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top