My stall team... with Flareon?

Hello! Thank you for coming to my post, and hopefully ready to leave some constructive advice! (:

My name is Annalysia and I like to use a couple strange Pokemon. In this team, it just so happens to be Flareon!

At a glance:








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And here we go!
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Roserade@Focus Sash

EVs(252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def)
Natural Cure -- Timid
Moveset:
~ Sleep Powder
~ Toxic Spikes
~ Leech Seed
~ Leaf Storm

Roserade is the beginning piece to my team. With her toxic spikes, she allows the rest of my members to do their job -- stall. Sleep powder for the much-needed time for spikes. Leaf Storm is her main way to put dents in things if she lives long enough and leech seed is there for things Leaf Storm doesn't really touch. I used to have Hidden Power [Fire] in the place of leech seed but it didn't hit hard enough to do much. I might switch back, however.




Dragonite@Leftovers

EVs(252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Atk)
Inner Focus -- Careful
Moveset:
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
~ Heal Bell
~ Roost

Honestly, this is probably my favorite Pokemon on this team. I've been a fan of the cleric dancer Dragonite ever since I stumbled upon it. Dragon dance for the boosts and dragon claw for a standard attack. Heal bell is what really makes this beauty shine. Gets rid of the burns and poisons that are spread through my team (which are more common than I thought they might be) or even the paralysis. Roost to help shrug off damage, especially if it's a bulky water's ice beam.




Milotic@Leftovers

EVs(252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA)
Marvel Scale -- Bold
Moveset:
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam
~ Hidden Power [Electric]
~ Recover

Milotic can be a beast, shrugging off a large portion of attacks while hitting back with decent special attack. Surf for a STAB, ice beam for more coverage. HP Electric for other waters, assuming I need to use it. (Most can be stalled out with Toxic Spikes and recover). A few changes are being considered here. Even though I love this Poke to no end, I'm debating a different bulky water. Marvel Scale is extremely useful; however, it can sometimes be useless when Dragonite's Heal Bell is used. Also, HP Electric has seemed almost useless, except against Gyarados. Considering Haze instead.




Togekiss@Choice Scarf

EVs(252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def)
Serene Grace -- Modest
Moveset:
~ Air Slash
~ Aura Sphere
~ Fire Blast
~ Trick

This Pokemon wasn't in my original team, but I'm sure glad I brought her in. She has netted me more than one win in one way or another. Choice Scarf to make up for her terrible speed then let the fun begin. Air Slash for the dreaded FlinchHax, Aura Sphere for coverage and Fire Blast for steels. Trick helps cripple walls that I don't want to deal with, like Blissey or Umbreon. Gardevoir used to be in this spot (Which can be seen below).




Forretress@Leftovers

EVs (252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def)
Sturdy -- Relaxed
Moveset:
~ Rapid Spin
~ Spikes
~ Gyro Ball
~ Earthquake

I needed a rapid spinner, having three Pokes weak to Stealth Rocks, and Foretress has done quite well. And, he's able to set up his own Spikes, which is a bonus. Earthquake has come in handy; however, I'm not always the biggest fan of Gyro Ball. Some changes are being considered here, especially placing Explosion in there somewhere. Overall, this is a sturdy guy that has done pretty well on my team.




Flareon@Leftovers

EVs(252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA)
Flash Fire -- Calm
Moveset:
~ Wish
~ Protect
~ Lava Plume
~ Roar

And here she is, Flareon. While she may seem like an odd choice, she has actually done pretty well. She can switch in on fire moves aimed at my Rapid Spinner, which makes her only move hit a bit harder, which is always good. Wish and protect for stalling or to pass wishes. With her EVs and nature, she can actually handle special attacks very well. Lava Plume does decent damage and has a high burn rate, which comes in handy versus opponents that are immune to toxic spikes -- steels or Pokes above the ground. Roar helps shuffle around their Pokemon, which helps for scouting, spreading both variants of spikes or phasing a stat-raiser.



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Passed:


Gardevoir@Leftovers
EVs(252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def)
Trace -- Modest
Moveset:
~ Wish
~ Psychic
~ Thunderbolt
~ Focus Blast

Gardevoir did pretty well, but mainly just because of her ability Trace. I consider her one of the best counters to Gyarados, able to switch in, trace his intimidate, then fire back with a thunderbolt. Outside of that, however, she wasn't much good, at least for this team. (Replace focus blast for will-o-wisp on other teams and I love her. Hehe). Anyways, she has now been replaced with Togekiss.

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Thank you for any rates you leave, I'll actually take them to consideration.
Please, don't be aggressive just to show your epeen, if you're going to be
harsh, let it be for a good reason.

Annalysia
 
Look, this isn't a very effective stall team. Its more of a balanced playstyle I guess with some bulky pokemon combined with hazards.

Problems:
1. No spinblocker. This basically means that Starmie can make both Roserade and Forretress extremely un-useful. I should mention that Starmie also easily beats you, OHKOing and 2HKOing literally everything.

2. Flareon is inferior to Heatran/ It has Wish, but Togekiss, Jirachi and Vaporeon can all do the same thing and actually do a good job at it. Even with SR likely to be off the field, Flareon has a horrid defensive typing and bad defense meaning it can't fulfil this role properly.

3. Bad type synergy, which is seriously important since you have no general purpose walls (Forretress doesn't count since it can't Roost like Skarmory, meaning most physical attackers can get past it in a few turns). I mean, what do you switch in to Rotom-A, Starmie, NP or special mixed Infernape, Lucario with Stone Edge/Ice Punch, offensive Shaymin and Celebi, etc etc ?

You get the picture. BTW, it would be helpful if you want this team to be full stall or semi-stall / balanced. That makes it easier to make helpful suggestions.
 
Threats -

  • Kingra - Most forms - Espcially Chesto Rest
  • Jolteon - Life Orb
  • Jirachi - Especially CM/Wish variants
I like the look of this team and I like the way you're using Flareon. I have to say though, it appears to be doing a job that Vaporeon could be doing alot better. The standard Mono-attacking Wish support could be far more beneficial than a mono attacking fire type which is not only weak to Stealth Rock, but is also only capable of an attacking type that is enjoyed by the pokemon currently at number 1 in the usage stats. You do have Heatran pretty well covered but I can't understand the use of Flareon on the team.

My suggestion would be to replace Flareon with Vaporeon to begin with:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Bold
EV's: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpD

~Wish
~Protect
~Surf
~Roar / HP Electric

This then leaves a free spot where Milotic was to take on the threats mentioned.

I don't like to suggest Pokemon which are extremely common usually because it often dulls the team. But in terms of being competative I think Scarf Flygon could be very good in this position.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Jolly
Ev's: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

~Earthquake
~Outrage
~U-turn
~Fireblast

Jolly or Adamant only really depends on whether you think you have an issue with Agiligross and/or Scarfrachi. If you opt to replace Flareon Scarfrachi becomes more of a problem. You have Togekiss to absorb Trick but a fair amount of your team won't enjoy it.

Chesto Rest Kingdra is an issue as once he has 2 DD's up and has rested away any damage and Toxic he will have a relatively easy time sweeping the team. Outrage is a OHKO from Flygon so getting in early and attacking is essential.

Jolteon will not go on a long sweep with Toxic in the way and various pokes stalling it. You can potentially stop it with Togekiss but Airslash is barely a 4HKO with rocks so you can't rely on the hax when Thunderbolt is a definite OHKO. Flygon will outrun and after coming is on the predicted Tbolt and OHKO or scare him out.

CM/Wish Jirachi can come in on many attacks - Wish and start CMing. Once he has 2 Calm minds your Fire attacks will be doing under 30% and with a set of Thunderbolt and Psychic he can proceed to tear holes in your team as you watch in horror. At +2 psychic will 2HKO Scarfgon. If you predict around Wish Scarfgon can outspeed and 2HKO, but it is very important that he doesn't get to +3 or it's GG.

I don't like to play the game of if X dies Y can sweep, but you will need to make sure Roserade is alive to help you revenge offensive Suicune. Airslash is a 3HKO and you may get lucky with Hax, but if not he will CM up and destroy your team. I don't have many other suggestions for Suicune.

I hope some of this helps. Good luck with the team - I left out the fact that I hate Roserade leads because people tend to want to stick with them..
 

Venom

red eyes no visine
is a Team Rater Alumnus
Honestly, teams like this aren't even worth to be rated. You're using Pokemon that are completely not fit for the OU environment, and especially a "stall team". Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to destroy your idea of having a stall team around Flareon, but in the honest truth, don't expect this team to get you anywhere.

You seem to have the right concept for what a stall team should do, and if you're willing to make changes to this team, I will gladly post pack with my rate.
 
Maybe fire fang instead of lava plume?

130 base attack is nice on flareon


:edit:

You're just gonna get rocked by SR. once your spinner is dead, everything else is pretty weak
 
@ Venom: Why don't you make some suggestions?

I think jumping into stall too early is a bad idea anyway. I actually rated it as if it was a balanced / Bulky team I suppose.
 

Venom

red eyes no visine
is a Team Rater Alumnus
@ Venom: Why don't you make some suggestions?

I think jumping into stall too early is a bad idea anyway. I actually rated it as if it was a balanced / Bulky team I suppose.
I rate teams, not destroy the concepts of them.
 

Danmire

its okay.
is an Artist Alumnus
Like the above posters said, this isn't like a stall team.
If you want a stall team, I suggest reading this:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64226

Also, if you're going to stall with Flareon, I suggest getting an anti-spinner, because then your Roar will be useless, as you have nothing to do damage with. Or, you can replace Roar with the likes of Toxic.
 
Flareon really just can't cut it; honestly as everyone's said, it's not meant for OU. The gist of what it's meant to do is decent, but you can find so many better pokemon for its position. It probably has done its job well, but really, a lot of other Pokes can beat what it does.
For instance, Torment Heatran would do a LOT better with its Lava Plume and switching in. Neutrality to SR goes a good way. Vaporeon also works so much better with Wish passing, and since you don't seem to like Milotic, why not swap it out for Vaporeon?
Either way, as everyone else have also stated, this team really can't work in OU.
 
I don't want to sound harsh, but you must be on some crazy drugs if you're playing stall without Rotom-A. You NEED a spin-blocker, as entry hazards are your main win condition. TrickScarf versions get a special mention as it outspeeds Starmie and wastes it with Thunderbolt. How about this set?
Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Overheat
Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball are for STAB, Trick is to screw up their walls or set up Pokémon like CroCune, and Overheat roasts the steel types that are immune to Toxic Spikes.

Second, I know you really wanted to make a Flareon-based team, and props on being original, but.. it's just not very good against so many things. If you're dead-set on Flareon, try it out in NU, or even UU where I'm sure you'll find it far more effective. In it's place I'd run Vaporeon, so you can still Wish-pass. The set that SmileZ posted is fine, use it. Definitely go with Roar over HP Electric to abuse your entry hazards. Since you've got Vappy now, you don't need Milotic, so that is who you can replace with Rotom-H.

Next up, where is Stealth Rock? Spikes are awesome, and Toxic Spikes are your win condition... and flying Pokémon don't give a shit about them. However, flying types sure do hate being Roared out and losing 25% from Rocks every time it happens. So, what we can do here, is redo your Forretress.
Forretress @ Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
EVs: 252 HP/112 Atk/144 Def
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Payback/Gyro Ball/Earthquake
Ok, now let me explain why such a big change. Spikes and Rapid Spin stayed the same from your set, no explanation needed. I dropped Forry down to one attacking move, as you generally want to be laying hazards, or spinning when Forry comes out, as he's not exactly Chuck Norris with attacks. Stealth Rock will really help out your team, stripping a quarter of Dragonite, Gyarados, Zapdos, etc's HP every time they switch in, as they float right over all your other hazards. In the final slot, it's really a personal choice. Payback is nice as it will always have 100 BP as Forry isn't outspeeding anything, ever and it's super effective against all those nasty ghosts that try to block your spin. Gyro Ball is excellent STAB, and will deal massive damage to almost everything due to Forry's awful speed. Finally, Earthquake is nice if you can predict well and manage to catch things like Heatran, Infernape, or Magnezone that are switching in, as they are some of Forry's biggest counters. Use whichever move you like best.

Now since you have TrickScarf Rotom-H on your team, you don't need that random TrickScarf Togekiss on the team. I might go with Heatrean in this spot. The Torment set seems especially effective on your team, as it can force a lot of switches, which means all your entry hazards say hi. I'm just going to post the one right off of this site here, just as a starting point, but feel free to alter it.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
EVs: 244 HP / 32 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
-Torment
-Protect
-Substitute
-Lava Plume/Flamethrower
In case you don't know how it works, it's based on the knowledge that very few Pokémon actually carry more than one attack strong enough to break Heatran's sub. Once Tormented, the opponent is prevented from using the same attack twice in a row, so you can Protect on the turn they use their strong attack, thus preventing your sub from breaking. Then on the next turn you're free to fire off Lava Plume, with its delicious 30% burn chance. If you don't care about the high burn chance, Flamethrower is a more powerful attack you can use.

Let me know how that works out and I'll come back and see what else I can do. Good luck with the team. =)
 
I rate teams, not destroy the concepts of them.
I'm pretty sure the concept is very much still very much in place. It wasn't a stall team to begin with and everything is doing the same job. Essentially Flareon to Vaporeon is a no brainer and covering the weakness that creates with Flygon is pretty solid too.

Good effort flaming a team that someone asked for help with though.
 
I'm pretty sure the concept is very much still very much in place. It wasn't a stall team to begin with and everything is doing the same job. Essentially Flareon to Vaporeon is a no brainer and covering the weakness that creates with Flygon is pretty solid too.

Good effort flaming a team that someone asked for help with though.
Then why did you call the team "A stall team". I would go with Juice's suggestions. And honestly, Flareon doesn't cut it, especially in OU.
 
@ Nightshadow - Yeah you're right. I didn't mean to sound facetious. I read Venom's first post back and thought it was more harshly worded than it actually was. My bad.
 
Like everybody said, this is NOT a stall team. First, get rid of flareon for Heatran.
Milotic and Forretress are fine for now. Togekiss should not have Trick, and get it LO/Leftovers/Expert Belt/Choice Specs. Replace Roserade with Bronzong or make Forretress your lead. For Dragonite, replace Heal Bell for Flamethrower. That's it for now.
 
If you are considering replacing Milotic I think you should throw in Swampert.

Swampert@Leftovers
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Beam
-Earthquake
-Roar

This gives you SR and another phaser while still being an awesome bulky water. Swanperts large flaw in a 4x grass weakness isn't a problem because every other member of your team resists it.
Good luck and nice work on using 'nite in an interesting and un-'mence like way.
 

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