Mixing Things Up (OU RMT)

[y4f]

Hello all, y4f (yay4failure) here with my first OU RMT (standard ruleset and 1v1). What inspired me to make this team was the presence of walls and bulky waters on many teams I played against. These walls were able to shut down the majority of my sweepers. I also noticed that some of the best players who were able to overcome such walls and bulky pokes utilized their own bulky pokemon and entry hazards in order to wear down the opponents team via the aforementioned entry hazards and status. SO, I made this team, using a basic setup of 1 lead, 3 core defensive pokemon, 1 revenge killer, and 1 mixed sweeper. In general, my revenge killer and mixed sweeper aren't seen until late game when my opponents walls have been worn down, as well as my own.

(Original) Team Building Process:

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The main defensive core of a team is what holds it together, so that's what I decided to start with. I wanted a solid pairing of a specal wall and a physical wall, so I went with the incredibly common yet relentlessly effective SkarmBliss combination.

Next, I wanted something that could cover for the combined weaknesses of Skarmory and Blissey. The main thing that popped out at me was physical sweepers that run Fire Blast to get rid of Skarm (Infernape, Dragonite, Flygon). The main way to counter those pokes is through the use of bulky water types. Vaporeon is my bulky water of choice, so I decided to throw it in there.

Another crucial point of any team is the lead. I wanted a bulky lead, so it could survive somewhat as a fourth wall, so I went with a Physical Tank Jirachi. Not only can Jirachi set up rocks, it can also inflict status using Body Slam + Serene Grace and hax people to death with the increased flinch rate of Iron Head. A final plus to Jirachi is that many people won't Trick it, as many Jirachis carry choice items anyways. And even if they do, Choice Scarf Jirachi can be a formidable revenge killer.

Next, I needed a trusty revenge killer, one that not only had decent bulk, but a good deal of type coverage and the ability to outspeed many pokemon via the use of Choice Scarf. Also, it needed to have access to Trick. I immediately thought of Rotom-w because of its access to Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is an immensely powerful move with a great deal of neutral coverage making it a great choice on a scarfed poke. Rotom also is a crucial spin-blocker and resists Normal and Fighting moves that are very detrimental to my Blissey and Vaporeon. Also takes Ground-type moves directed at my Jirachi.

Finally, I needed a mixed sweeper. One that could at least 2HKO if not OHKO formidable steel-type pokes like Nattorei, Skarm, Foretress, and Scizor. Also, I needed one with stat-boosting ability and powerful physical stab so that it could sweep teams without needing massive type coverage. The choice was clear - Dragonite. Not only is Dragonite bulky, but it has great Attack and SAtk, combined with Dragon Dance and a nice movepool. Dragonite was my ace in the hole. Dragonite also provides another Ground immunity, resistance to Fighting moves that could harm Blissey, as well as another Fire resist (to cover for Skarm).

Let's get into the movesets! (Original Team)

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iHax (Jirachi) @ Leftovers​

Ability: Serene Grace​

EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe

Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Stealth Rock
- Fire Punch
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
---​

My Jirachi is designed to come out at the start of the battle with a positive matchup against most leads. Against common Tauntt leads like Azelf, Aerodactyl, Erufuun, and more, Jirachi can deal heavy damage via Body Slam (with 60% paralysis chance) and stab Iron Head. Fire Punch can get decent damage on those pesky steel types. Against bulky physically oriented leads such as Metagross, Swampert, and Hippowdon, I will generally set up Rocks then switch out into Skarmory to -hopefully- get up Spikes layers and phase. ​

Vaporizers (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers​

Ability: Water Absorb

EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe

Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
---​

This is my favorite wishpassing set for Vaporeon. Surf provides a solid stab move coming off of 110 base SpA, which can deal heavy damage to threats like Tyranitar, Heatran, Infernape, and more. Toxic is lethal in conjunction with Protect, and Wish can help restore the health of some of the less bulky pokes on my team. This Vaporeon also safely switches in to pretty much any special attack directed at my Skarmory, sans Electric type attacks (which is what Blissey and Rotom are for). If I had to sum up Vaporeon in three words, it would be "mixed backup wall". ​

iLikeToPhase (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers​

Ability: Sturdy

EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe

Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
---​

This Skarmory set is one I've used on many teams in my 5-day battling history... Max / Max +nature allows it to take super effective physical hits and shrug them off like nothing. I can then proceed to set up Spikes, Roost off residual damage, and use Brave Bird to hit unsuspecting pokes who think they can easily set up on Skarm. Whirlwind is crucial in this set for accumulating damage off of Stealth Rock and Spikes, as well as temporarily getting rid of sweepers that I've let set up too long. That's all there is to say!​

iAmAFatHo (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers​

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe

Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Aromatherapy
---​

This Blissey set allows me to provide cleric support to the team, as well as to pester the opponents team by spamming T-Wave and paralyzing any sweepers or physical attackers that try to switch in on Blissey. Seismic Toss is there for solid damage, and Softboiled for ensuring Blissey survives. Finally, Blissey not only serves as my specal tank, but also my status tank, as I can happily switch into any burn / paralysis that would be directed at my sweepers.​

iWashYoClothes (Rotom-w) @ Choice Scarf​

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk

Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
---​

This Rotom set deals more damage than would be expected for your standard tank Rotom, thanks to SAtk EVs and +nature. Movepool allows me to come in on Gengar, bulky waters / Gyarados, weakened TTar, and a lot of other pokes, and finish them off. Fits the roll of revenge killer quite well. Trick also helps me cripple walls who think they have a free switch in.​

Cutiepie (Dragonite) (M) @ Expert Belt​

Ability: Inner Focus

EVs: 176 Atk/252 Spd/80 SAtk

Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
---​

Expert Belt DDNite helps me bluff choice and get a free DDance up against unsuspecting pokes who assume I will switch. EV spread allows for a more powerful Fire Blast to OHKO weakened Skarm, Scizor, Foretress, Breloom, and more, and ensures that I outspeed most pokes after a DDance. The move setup allows me to take out most special walls with stab Outrage or EQ, and Fire Blast takes out bulky Steels.​

This team has worked very well for me. In a day of laddering, I've jumped 200 points and beaten a lot of 1500-1600 CRE users, the highest opponent being a 1652 whom I 4-0d. There ARE some very significant weaknesses, however, most notably NP Ape and Gengar / SubCM Ghost types. Please help out with any tips / suggestions, thanks!

Modifed Team​

CHANGES FROM ORIGINAL TEAM​

- Skarmory moved to lead + changed set.
- Dragonite taken out for Scarf Flygon.
- Vaporeon taken out for Gyarados​

Arnold (Skarmory) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Spd/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
---
This unique Skarmory hit takes into account some of the things many of the original team raters have said. First of all, Taunt Skarmory was suggested as it allowed me to stop slower leads, sleep inducing leads, and set-up leads running Taunt. The job of this Skarmoy is to come in on the lead, Taunt anything slower than it similar to Taunt Skarm, and then set up Spikes. This works quite well against leads like Swampert, Hippowdon, Metagross, and more. If I encounter faster / trick leads, I will immediate switch into Flygon in order to negate their trick and threaten a switch / break sash with U-Turn. This works especially well against leads like Aerodactly or Azelf, since I can switch in on their Taunt and then threaten serious damage -hopefully- forcing a switch. U-Turn will allow me to switch into an appropriate counter and set up.

John (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance
---
This beautiful Gyarados set is my replacement for Vaporeon. Since I took out Spikes on Skarm, phasing is no longer such an essential part of the team, and Gyarados can switch in a lot more easily. It provides a crucial resistance to both Fighting and Fire, allowing me to easily come in on non-NP Ape, force the switch, set up, and wreak havoc. I rely on Gyarados to counter most set-up physical sweepers, due to Intimidate, defense EVs, Taunt to stop further set-up, and optimum coverage. Stone Edge takes out opposing Dragon types or other Gyarados. Provided I can get in quick enough and get off a Taunt, I can also use CS Flygon to revenge kill with Outrage / Thunderpunch.

Franny (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
---
Pretty much the same Blissey set. Blissey is the crucial special wall, easily shrugging off the vast majority of special attacks and even a fair share of physical attacks. The moveset allows for me to cripple switchers who attempt to switch in on Bliss, recover health, absorb status, set up entry hazards, and peck away at big walls via Seismic Toss. My only problem with Blissey is substituting Ghost-types, as they resist Seismic Toss. I may try to fit in Ice Beam in this set in order to take out switch-in Dragons and break subs on those gosh darn Ghosts.

Jack (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/224 Def/32 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
---
This Jirachi is one of the key Pokemon on this team. Not only does this set provide considerable physical bulk with the 224 Def EVs, it has enough speed to outpace TTar, Scizor, Machamp, and packs considerable punch. Wish and Calm Mind are crucial when used in combination as they allow me to boost my stats up continuously while replenishing health and continuing my sweep. Psychic and TBolt provide great coverage (only resisted by Magnezone, who poses no threat anyways since I have acces to CM and recovery). Thanks to the many people who suggested this, it's a very effective Jirachi set.

A Woman (Rotom-w) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spe/252 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
---
Self explanatory Rotom set is self explanatory. Choice Specs allow Rotom to OHKO a lot of Pokemon it could normally only 2HKO, and 2HKO and lot of pokes it could normally 3HKO.. and so on. This set not only has a lot of surprise factor, but also packs a gigantic punch, is an effective revenge killer, and cripples walls that get too comfortable via Trick. Also, I can switch in and OHKO pretty much all the standard Rapid Spinners, making this one of the most effective spin blockers. Starmie? Thunderolt. Surf won't OHKO (neither will LO Hydro Pump). Donphan? Hydro Pump. Claydol? same. Tentacruel? Thunderbolt. Foretress? I can 2KO with TBolt, sometimes OHKO with residual damage, and can cripple with trick. Anyways, this is my favorite spin blocker simply because it can force so many switches and punish incoming Pokes, making it crucial for accumulating entry hazard damage and sweeping after other Pokes have been worn down.

Robert (Flygon) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Thunderpunch
---
This Flygon is my late-game sweeper / revenge killer. Provides a check for Gyarados, as I can switch in after a DD and OHKO with Thunderpunch against non-bulky variants. I will always OHKO BulkyDos after SR support with Thunder Punch as well. Earthquake provides a check for ScarfTran, U-Turn for general scouting and for Celebi, and Outrage for finishing off weakened pokes late in the game. ​

Thanks for taking a look at the team!​

 

[Faladran]

Hi y4f, congrats on your first RMT! I personally enjoy playing with bulky Pokemon and entry hazards, and I can certainly attest to their effectiveness in battle. This looks like quite a solid team, although there are a few small tweaks that I'd like to make. To begin with, I'm a bit unsure as to how well that Jirachi works as a lead. Many common leads outspeed or beat it, limiting its ability to set up Stealth Rock. For example, sleep-inducing leads such as Smeargle and Roserade will be quite troublesome to deal with, as they force you to sacrifice one of your Pokemon as sleep fodder. Either you will be prevented from setting up Stealth Rock, or you will temporarily lose one of your important team members. To fix this issue, I would recommend moving Skarmory to the lead position and using a Taunt + Lum Berry set:

[box]

Skarmory @ Lum Berry
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Roost
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
[/box]
Making this change will significantly improve your lead match-ups, while allowing you to get up entry hazards at the beginning of the game. Additionally, Taunt allows you to prevent slower leads like Swampert or Hippowdon from setting up Stealth Rock, making it easier for Dragonite to switch in. You can go with your current EV spread if you wish, but I really like using a specially defensive spread, which makes it easier for the already physically-bulky Skarmory to set up on weaker special attackers.

To help abuse your entry hazards, I would highly recommend using Roar over Toxic on Vaporeon. Toxic is helpful against some Pokemon, but Roar is certainly the superior option on a team that relies on entry hazards for damage. Using Roar is also advantageous because it prevents ChestoRest Kingdra from setting up on you, which could be somewhat difficult to deal with. Jirachi is also free to run a different set if you choose to go with Taunt Skarmory, so I would recommend either offensive Superachi (my personal favorite set) or WishCM. Having two Wish users would really bolster this team's durability, allowing you to survive longer while your opponent struggles from entry hazard damage. WishCM Jirachi is also a fantastic late-game sweeper with Spikes support, especially against stall teams. Last of all, I don't think that Expert Belt would be the best choice of item for Dragonite. Since Dragonite typically relies on neutral rather than super effective coverage, it would be advisable to try out either one of the standard DD or MixNite sets, which would likely prove more effective on this team.

Good luck!

 

[y4f]

Hi y4f, congrats on your first RMT! I personally enjoy playing with bulky Pokemon and entry hazards, and I can certainly attest to their effectiveness in battle. This looks like quite a solid team, although there are a few small tweaks that I'd like to make. To begin with, I'm a bit unsure as to how well that Jirachi works as a lead. Many common leads outspeed or beat it, limiting its ability to set up Stealth Rock. For example, sleep-inducing leads such as Smeargle and Roserade will be quite troublesome to deal with, as they force you to sacrifice one of your Pokemon as sleep fodder. Either you will be prevented from setting up Stealth Rock, or you will temporarily lose one of your important team members. To fix this issue, I would recommend moving Skarmory to the lead position and using a Taunt + Lum Berry set:

[box]

Skarmory @ Lum Berry
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Roost
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
[/box]
Making this change will significantly improve your lead match-ups, while allowing you to get up entry hazards at the beginning of the game. Additionally, Taunt allows you to prevent slower leads like Swampert or Hippowdon from setting up Stealth Rock, making it easier for Dragonite to switch in. You can go with your current EV spread if you wish, but I really like using a specially defensive spread, which makes it easier for the already physically-bulky Skarmory to set up on weaker special attackers.

To help abuse your entry hazards, I would highly recommend using Roar over Toxic on Vaporeon. Toxic is helpful against some Pokemon, but Roar is certainly the superior option on a team that relies on entry hazards for damage. Using Roar is also advantageous because it prevents ChestoRest Kingdra from setting up on you, which could be somewhat difficult to deal with. Jirachi is also free to run a different set if you choose to go with Taunt Skarmory, so I would recommend either offensive Superachi (my personal favorite set) or WishCM. Having two Wish users would really bolster this team's durability, allowing you to survive longer while your opponent struggles from entry hazard damage. WishCM Jirachi is also a fantastic late-game sweeper with Spikes support, especially against stall teams. Last of all, I don't think that Expert Belt would be the best choice of item for Dragonite. Since Dragonite typically relies on neutral rather than super effective coverage, it would be advisable to try out either one of the standard DD or MixNite sets, which would likely prove more effective on this team.

Good luck!

Thanks for the Skarmory idea. I HAVE had trouble getting out my entry hazards early game - that seems like a very viable solution. I'll test Roar over Toxic - if I succeed in getting out my entry hazards, that's definitely a better idea. What do you think about running Forretress over Jirachi in the lead spot and the same Skarmory set? Also.. what about running a RestTalk Snorlax with Whirlwind and Body Slam? That could be a great phaser. And I will change the Nite set.

WishCM Rachi sounds very good, I'll test it. Since it IS yet another one of my Fire weaks I feel like RestTalk Lax with Thick Fat could really help. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[Aerrow]

Cool team.

Problems

• Offensive Infernape
• Substitute Machamp

Rating upon request by the OP. This looks like a great team like Faladran has said, as in my perspective it's found a nice balance between its Pokemon as they greatly help and synergize well with each other. The strategy being implemented is also worth praise as the utilization of entry hazards in conjunction with hard hitting sweepers is very effective strategy that will usually be able to defeat even the most potent of opposing Pokemon. To start things off, I would like to second all of Faladran's suggestions as the lead Skarmory he has suggested seems to be quite suitable to a team such as this one. Also the addition of the Superachi Jirachi variant also seems to be an ideal change as it fits in quite nicely with your team's general changes. Assuming that those changes are made, I'll get to some other suggestions that may prove to be beneficial in the midst of battle. Moving on to the problems this team has, I see some problems with the likes of offensive Infernape and the ever so present offensive Machamp, as both if given the chance to set up (which doesn't seem to difficult when against this team), can easily shred through your Pokemon given that Infernape and Machamp have the necessary moves in the arsenal. It is true that you have Rotom to handle both of the aforementioned threats, but due to the fact that Scizor is commonly used with Infernape and Machamp, it may be difficult for Rotom to survive until the point that Infernape or Machamp actually switch in and start to set up.

Solutions

• Minor Changes
• Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados
  

[box]

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Taunt / Earthquake
- Waterfall[/box]
First of all, before I get to the major suggestions, I'm going to suggest a couple of minor changes. I recommend changing your Dragonite's item to a Life Orb instead of an Expert Belt, as it will allow the devastating dragon to have a much easier time sweeping late game when sufficient support has been provided; also, I recommend replacing a move on Vaporeon (preferably Toxic) with Roar as this move will further more take advantage of the entry hazard support the rest of your team is providing. To be honest, at this point your team is looking great so in terms of major changes, there's not much to suggest except maybe replacing Dragonite with a dragon dance Gyarados as this change will patch up the noticeable weakness to Infernape and Machamp your team currently has. Also, this change will not really affect your team's strategy or synergy; in my opinion, the addition of Gyarados may even strengthen your team's efficiency due to the aforementioned Pokemon usually being able to take advantage of such entry hazard support mainly sue to its ability, Intimidate which will allow it to find more opportunities to set up, in basically all of the phases in a battle. I hope this rate has helped and good luck!

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your message, really cool team. I agree with everything Faladran said, and to respond to your comments- I think Forretress and Skarmory is very redundant, and forry isn't really that good unless he's laying down some spikes, which is already accomplished for you. The one thing I would change with the Skarmory set up would be to give him whirlwind instead of stealth rock, and then to give stealth rock to Blissey instead, over perhaps aromatherapy, since Skarmory is often crammed for moves. One idea I do have however, would be to actually replace Jirachi with a more effective set, since I think that Skarmory would be a great lead (with the changes I outlined). I think that Wish CM would be an awesome replacement. Obviously having another wish passer is cool, but Jirachi is actually an awesome sweeper with this set, especially with the entry hazards support he's receiving on this team. He can often pass wishes to Dragonite (thanks to airtight synergy) to support his sweeping attempts, especially if you decide to give him a LO (which I would). He also provides you with a pretty good check to Gengar, whom you said was an issue.

Small changes! Try timid over modest on Rotom, since getting the jump on Dragonite is pretty huge. Extremspeed is also probably a good option on Dragonite over Fire Blast or Earthquak to help you in countering NP Ape, who is also a minour problem.

That's all the advice I have, hope this helps.

 

[y4f]

Thank you very much for the rates, guys. If you look above at my edited post, you can see the changes I factored in. Taunt Skarm has been working great for me, added that. Jirachi is later in the line-up, but I'm using my own physical tank set simply because I feel like this team has more trouble dealing with physical / mixed pokes than special. Also, this physical set allows me to paralyze and hax sweepers to death, providing a check to many pokes. The added bulk lets me take on Gengar as well.

Special thanks to Smith and Aerrow for responding to the PM and still adding more even after the great suggestions Faladran posted.

One final query. I DO have ways to deal with faster leads that use Taunt such as Azelf and Aero, but I'm still left wanting a more consistent foolproof way to get rid of them. Relying on Bliss to take Azelf's special attacks isn't reliable as some carry Explosion, and relying on Rachi and Dos to take the possible Stone Edge / EQ isn't the smartest move. The first thing that popped into my head was anti-lead Hippowdon, a set somewhat like this:

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/176 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Slack Off / Stealth Rock

Sandstream breaks sashes, EQ hits most pokes for decent damage, Crunch takes out Azelf, Stone Edge takes out Aero.. Slack Off for survivability / Stealth Rock for entry hazards.

Just a consideration, how do you guys think that would work? Stealth Rock actually could be useful over Slack Off as I DO have Wish support. Also, maybe not even a lead - just having Hippowdon on the team to complement Starmory and absorb its glaring Electric weakness (Gyara can take the Fire).

 

[y4f]

24-hour bump, any opinions on the team?

 

[deinosaur]

Okay, keep in mind that I focus on building teams, not rating them. However, I see that Sub Split Gengar with Thunderbolt and Shadow ball can pretty much wreck this team with a little support. I would suggest Flamethrower on Bliss over Seismic Toss so you can break the subs. However, this makes you more susceptible to Heatran, which can be easily killed by Flygon.

Sorry if this rate isn't that good.

 

[wombakage]

Not a big fan....

I've never liked biss-skarm, and when combined with a hax0r ('rachi) another amazing wall (Rotom) it saddens me.

I mean its a decent team, but not very original.

I love bulky gyra, but your team is lacking a a punch. Flygon revenge kills, but can't harm much unless locked into an outrage. So what about adamant 252 att 252 speed 4 def with bounce instead of taunt (already have taunt-skarm)


I don't think aromatherapy is needed, since blissey can take all statuses/flygon for twaves/steels for toxics

Also I'd go with expert belt rachi with fire punch, ice punch, t punch, iron head. It can outspeed many dnite variations/LO flygons.

One last thing.... You need a good special attacker. A wally rotom won't hurt much besides skarms and shit. Maybe Gengar? You can take CCs from it, and with pain split it can function like a rotom in some ways

 

[y4f]

Not a big fan....

I've never liked biss-skarm, and when combined with a hax0r ('rachi) another amazing wall (Rotom) it saddens me.

I mean its a decent team, but not very original.

I love bulky gyra, but your team is lacking a a punch. Flygon revenge kills, but can't harm much unless locked into an outrage. So what about adamant 252 att 252 speed 4 def with bounce instead of taunt (already have taunt-skarm)


I don't think aromatherapy is needed, since blissey can take all statuses/flygon for twaves/steels for toxics

Also I'd go with expert belt rachi with fire punch, ice punch, t punch, iron head. It can outspeed many dnite variations/LO flygons.

One last thing.... You need a good special attacker. A wally rotom won't hurt much besides skarms and shit. Maybe Gengar? You can take CCs from it, and with pain split it can function like a rotom in some ways

thanks blissey. + we can be washington buddies no stalker. (kind of like no homo but no stalker, you see?)

and wombakage - i guess it's not original, but honestly, what do you expect to see in OU?

First off - thanks for the suggestion about taking out Taunt on Gyarados, but Taunt is one of the crucial things that allows this team to survive without having a dedicated special attacker. The way I see it, there isn't any one physical wall that can wall and stop all physical attackers, especially with Taunt preventing them from statusing (burn / paralyze to stop sweep), recovering, or stalling. So Taunt Gyarados can run through the majority of physical walls and get a ridiculous amount of setup on them, due to the great EVs. Without Taunt, Gyarados is easily susceptible to getting phased by any wall that can take a +2 / +3 Waterfall (think Skarm, other Gyarados, Cune, Vaporeon, more bulky waters, etc). With Taunt, I can Taunt their first attempt to phase, and then go for the 2HKO considering without a crit Stone Edge won't get close to OHKOing unless there's a great amount of residual damage on Gyara.

I definitely am not getting enough use out of Aromatherapy, you're right. It HAS come in handy on some occasions, but I honestly think that ice beam or flamethrower would be much more effective to hit those that are immune to s-toss. Also, Blissey could OHKO Flygon / DNite after Stealth Rock provided it had some SAtk EVs.

Note that Rotom is my defensive wall, and it serves a very crucial purpose as being a ground resist that can switch in on boosted EQs, burn, take another couple hits, and KO. Gengar can't fulfill that role nearly as well due to it's crap defensive stats, but I'll test out Gengar in that spot. Another thing I'm trying to fit in is a spinner so that my Gyarados can easily switch in - possibly specially oriented offensive Starmie?

 

[Eggbert]

This team is pretty impressive. Why not run spikes on Skarmory though? Skarmory was born to spike. You can just throw SR on Blissey or run both hazards on Skarmory, the latter I don't really reccommend. Without them you might as well run Metagross or Heatran, as they set up SR much easier and have explosion and a faster taunt respectively. I've only had a few teams using it, but offensive snorlax (adamant, lefties, 252 atk/252 SpDef, not spe...) can deal with Gengar easily (just don't switch into focus blast) via pursuit and can also beat non-wow Rotom with ease so Gyarados can sweep (even if that isn't your intent, it clears rotom for jirachi too). Even taking their scarf as they trick you thinking you are a curselax can help Gyarados. Snorlax also deals with taunt heatran, who is mildly troublesome to the current version of this team, esp with HP elec.

as far as above poster about being not very original- it is true that gyara/bliss/rotom/steel spiker is common, but you don't really have a choice. with a spiker, you need rotom and blissey. with blissey, gyara is usually the best choice...

 

[y4f]

This team is pretty impressive. Why not run spikes on Skarmory though? Skarmory was born to spike. You can just throw SR on Blissey or run both hazards on Skarmory, the latter I don't really reccommend. Without them you might as well run Metagross or Heatran, as they set up SR much easier and have explosion and a faster taunt respectively. I've only had a few teams using it, but offensive snorlax (adamant, lefties, 252 atk/252 SpDef, not spe...) can deal with Gengar easily (just don't switch into focus blast) via pursuit and can also beat non-wow Rotom with ease so Gyarados can sweep (even if that isn't your intent, it clears rotom for jirachi too). Even taking their scarf as they trick you thinking you are a curselax can help Gyarados. Snorlax also deals with taunt heatran, who is mildly troublesome to the current version of this team, esp with HP elec.

as far as above poster about being not very original- it is true that gyara/bliss/rotom/steel spiker is common, but you don't really have a choice. with a spiker, you need rotom and blissey. with blissey, gyara is usually the best choice...

The main reason I choose not to spike is that it takes up a lot of time that I feel is unnecessary, especially considering that i'm somewhat taking my team AWAY from phasing - going in the opposite direction. I'm now moving towards a team that sets up entry hazards early, and has a lot of tanks that can recovery HP easily and counter threats. With Skarmory, I can in most scenarios survive the lead matchup, get up rocks, and switch to another poke so that Skarm can be used as a defensive wall later in the game.

In addition, Metagross and Heatran both have huge weaknesses to lead Swampert and lead Hippo due to STAB EQ which can force switches, something I DON'T want to face with my lead. Also, I used to have SR on Blissey but decided to switch it for Aromatherapy, which I now may switch for Ice Beam or Flamethrower. If there was another semi-bulky lead option with a faster Taunt, rocks, and EQ immunity I would go for it. Aerodactyl is quite tempting but it's a tad too frail, Meta and Heatran can't switch into as much...at some point I might go back to my LO Azelf lead, as that burst big holes in teams early in the game with Psychic / Fire Blast / Rocks / Explosion.

Also, great minds think alike? I used to test Snorlax on this team, and while it did handle Gengar well, its means of recovery weren't quite as reliable as Blisseys and he couldn't take other special moves with as much ease as Bliss. I feel like with Ice Beam on Bliss (Flamethrower maybe) Gengar won't really be much of a problem anymore if I can continue to recover and break subs (+ stall Focus Blast pp). Thanks for the support, now I'm definitely going to think a lot more about my lead, and I might try to fit in meta over jirachi considering they're the same type and could serve similar purposes, a metagross being more potentially threatening due to access to explosion. The only reason I might keep Rachi over it is that I can bluff WishCM with a Wish, bait the specwall switch, Body Slam and hope for parahax on the switch, and then Iron Head to death.

Thanks, now I'm going to go rate your team!

 

[Faladran]

Just jumping in to say that Skarmory really should have Spikes on its moveset, preferably over Brave Bird. The only reason to even use Skarmory is for its outstanding ability to reliably lay down Spikes, and Brave Bird is really only useful against Gyarados (a threat that you happen to have well-covered). Spikes would really add to the effectiveness of this team; many of your team members are bulky Pokemon that induce switching, while Scarf Flygon makes for an outstanding late-game cleaner with entry hazard support. Without Spikes, most opponents will unfortunately get the upper hand of you. This team simply isn't offensive enough to beat opponents without the use of entry hazards.

Additionally, I feel that Jirachi could really benefit with a set change. Its current role on the team is to provide Wish support and function as a somewhat annoying paraflincher; however, it really lacks offensive firepower with this strategy. I think that the best way to improve Jirachi would be to change it to a WishCM set, which retains the ability to provide team healing support while giving you a very threatening sweeper, especially with Spikes support. This happens to be one of my very favorite sets to use due to its bulk, supportive nature, and ability to sweep late-game. Here is the set I had in mind:

[box]

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
[/box]
WishCM Jirachi can set up on a number of opposing Pokemon, especially against bulkier teams. With access to Calm Mind for stat boosting and Wish for healing, Jirachi can actually plow through powerful special attackers such as Starmie and Gengar after a single boost. Most Bulky Waters, such as Vaporeon and some variants of Suicune, are merely setup bait. Even Blissey cannot wall this Jirachi set, due to its access to healing and 404 HP. Psychic and Thunderbolt provide great neutral coverage, hitting most opponents for good damage. The EV spread is really up to you, but I like using the one listed since max HP is necessary and I always like having extra speed.

Good luck!

 

[Eggbert]

Actually most forms of leadtran beat Swampert. If you run shuca, you can 2hko with HP grass. If you run LO, you can easily ohko. It's a pretty cool set to try, I use it on some of my teams. Run Overheat/Hidden Power Grass/SR/Explosion with a life orb. Kos pert, machamp, occa gross, ect. If not, you can just use shuca and hp grass to 2hko pert.

 

[y4f]

I feel like Skarmory would be more effective if I were to use it not as a lead, but as a mid-game spiker after my lead has already fallen or been forced to switch out. As a result, I may begin to run a hard-hitting Metagross lead, and switch Skarm to this set:

Arnold (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Spd/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
---

Richard (Metagross) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
-Meteor Mash
-Bullet Punch
-Stealth Rock
-Explosion

For lead matchups like Hippowdon or Swampert, I can switch to Gyarados and set up. For sleep inducing leads, I can take the sleep, Meteor Mash, and then KO with Bullet Punch. For Trick leads, I can take the Trick and 2KO with Mash, coming in later to set up rocks. For Heatran / Infernape / leads that resist Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch, depending on the level of threat they pose I will either switch to Gyarados or Blissey, OR set up Rocks THEN switch to Flygon to force a switch / break sash with uturn then go back to meta to finish with Bullet Punch. Seems like a viable plan?

 

[undisputed]

Hi there y4f,

This looks like a nice team you have here. It covers a lot of threats well, so props on that. Currently, however, I believe you have a bit of a weakness to Agility Metagross. Skarmory is the only thing that can take a Thunder Punch (which it does for about 50%, so it's difficult to switch in). In addition, Starmie seems minorly threatening once Blissey dies. Otherwise, nothing on your team will be able to switch in, and Rotom risks it's wellbeing by switching in to protect Spikes. To remedy this issue, I would definitely give Skarmory Spikes over Brave Bird because that is the whole reason to use Skarmory.

Here is the set as mentioned:

Skarmory @ Lum Berry
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Roost
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

In addition, I would suggest Curse Swampert with Roar to replace Jirachi. It has high Special Defense, and with one Curse, it's a huge pain to take out. In addition, running Roar would allow you to build up a lot of Spikes/Stealth Rock Damage. Here is the set:

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Sp Def
Careful Nature
-Curse
-Rest
-Roar
-Waterfall

I hope that helps! Good luck with the team!

 

[Faladran]

Regarding the Metagross lead, I'm not completely sold on the idea. The main reason Skarmory isn't currently functioning to it's fullest potential is because it isn't running Spikes on it's moveset; without this move, there is very little reason to even utilize Skarmory. Metagross just doesn't fit in well with the pace of this team, and using it would require you to replace one of your already valuable team members. I still stand by my earlier suggestions of Spikes on Skarmory and the addition of WishCM Jirachi. These changes are more likely to increase the solidarity of your team, leading to a higher overall win rate. Using these suggestions also wouldn't damage the pacing of your team, as they are mostly minor and would therefore only serve to increase this team's effectiveness. Spikes are of course necessary, while CM Jirachi can really take advantage of entry hazards to sweep opposing teams, all while supporting your own Pokemon with Wish. If you decide on using these changes, I would encourage you to try out RestTalk Gyarados as well. It not only does a better job of checking physical threats like SD Lucario, but also can serve as a second phazer, forcing switches to further rack up entry hazard damage. The loss of Dragon Dance may seem off-putting, but with entry hazards, Jirachi and Flygon, you'll have plenty of ways to defeat opponents.

 

[BKC]

Not a big fan....

I've never liked biss-skarm, and when combined with a hax0r ('rachi) another amazing wall (Rotom) it saddens me.

I mean its a decent team, but not very original.

this made me .___.

Anyways hi, really good team. I'd like to second the suggestions Faladran and Undisputed made of Spikes on Skarm; thats the only reason to ever use Skarm in the first place. You may think that they're useless because you don't phaze, but that's wrong. SkarmBliss causes a ridiculous amount of switches, and by wearing their switchins down with Spikes, they'll eventually run out of options to take it down.

Also, seconding Wish CM Rachi, the thing is an incredible sweeper, supporter, and you can beat all of its counters reliably.

Good luck!

 

[The Grand Babido]

Hey, I think this team is becoming closer and closer to fullstall, and honestly that is probably the right direction to go. I think you really require Spikes on Skarmory over Brave Bird. Against Machamp leads you should be going to Gyarados and then back to Skarmory anyway, to set-up against a -1 Machamp or set-up vs. the inevitable bulky-water, grass-type or Flygon that may come in against Gyarados, watch out for Rotom though. Spikes would fit over Brave Bird, and although it does make your Skarmory slightly clustered, it is the best thing for it.

Seeing as you are taking the defensive approach, I think you should change your Gyarados to a simple ResTalk variant. This gives you a valuable status absorber and allows you to replace Aromatherapy on Blissey. With Rest, Gyarados becomes so much more defensively solid, and you can throw it into Lucario's Close Combats etc more easily because you know you can always Rest up if you come dangerously low to fainting. Gyarados also gets the benefit of Roar, and without Whirlwind on Skarmory, I think one phazing move would be great for your team. By going completely defensive, Gyarados becomes an even more solid check to Infernape as well.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish | Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpDef
Waterfall / Roar / Rest / Sleep Talk

Because you are using Gyarados as a status absorber, you really lessen the need for Aromatherapy on Blissey, and I think it could be replaced by something much more beneficial to your team such as Flamethrower. Flamethrower is incredibly useful as it allows Blissey to break Gengar, a particular menace to your team and can potentially catch Scizor, Breloom and even Metagross switch-ins off guard. There is nothing better than Thunder Waving a Breloom switch-in and then proceeding to OHKO with Flamethrower. Flamethrower is definitely something to consider.

I think you should definitely go with the Calm Mind Jirachi Faladran suggested, as it endgames so well with Spikes support. However I would probably not run Max Speed. Max Speed's, or Timid with 176 Speed's only utility is so you can outrun Lucario and OHKO after it has used Close Combat, or get the Calm Mind in before offensive Suicune. However, I see both objectives as rather un-necessary, seeing as you have Gyarados for the former and Blissey for the latter. A simple Bold spread with 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe is probably the way to go here.

Consider Pain Split on Rotom-W. Ghosts with Pain Split really abuse Spikes so well as their common switch-ins [Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, Shaymin etc] are all Spikes weak. It will also add a lot more survivability to Rotom.

Good team and good luck!

[edit:] @ BlisseyofDoom - I think i have only suggested that Gyarados once or twice now...I am assuming you got me mixed up.

 

[deinosaur]

Seeing as you are taking the defensive approach, I think you should change your Gyarados to a simple ResTalk variant.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish | Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpDef
Waterfall / Roar / Rest / Sleep Talk

No offense, but you really like this Gyarados huh?

 

[y4f]

I've made the suggested changes - I am now using a Skarm set with Whirlwind, Spikes, Roost, and Taunt, and I moved Stealth Rock to Bliss over Aromatherapy. WishCM Rachi is now what I use, and it's incredibly effective. I will test RestTalk Gyarados, but I like my current Gyarados set as it can generally set up and sweep against most teams that overly rely on walls and status as counters (this Gyarados sets up on Bliss, Skarm, bulky waters not running HP Electric, and a multitude of other pokes.

Arnold (Skarmory) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Spd/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
---
This unique Skarmory hit takes into account some of the things many of the original team raters have said. First of all, Taunt Skarmory was suggested as it allowed me to stop slower leads, sleep inducing leads, and set-up leads running Taunt. The job of this Skarmoy is to come in on the lead, Taunt anything slower than it similar to Taunt Skarm, and then set up Spikes. This works quite well against leads like Swampert, Hippowdon, Metagross, and more. If I encounter faster / trick leads, I will immediate switch into Flygon in order to negate their trick and threaten a switch / break sash with U-Turn. This works especially well against leads like Aerodactly or Azelf, since I can switch in on their Taunt and then threaten serious damage -hopefully- forcing a switch. U-Turn will allow me to switch into an appropriate counter and set up.

John (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance
---
This beautiful Gyarados set is my replacement for Vaporeon. Since I took out Spikes on Skarm, phasing is no longer such an essential part of the team, and Gyarados can switch in a lot more easily. It provides a crucial resistance to both Fighting and Fire, allowing me to easily come in on non-NP Ape, force the switch, set up, and wreak havoc. I rely on Gyarados to counter most set-up physical sweepers, due to Intimidate, defense EVs, Taunt to stop further set-up, and optimum coverage. Stone Edge takes out opposing Dragon types or other Gyarados. Provided I can get in quick enough and get off a Taunt, I can also use CS Flygon to revenge kill with Outrage / Thunderpunch.

Franny (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
---
Pretty much the same Blissey set. Blissey is the crucial special wall, easily shrugging off the vast majority of special attacks and even a fair share of physical attacks. The moveset allows for me to cripple switchers who attempt to switch in on Bliss, recover health, absorb status, set up entry hazards, and peck away at big walls via Seismic Toss. My only problem with Blissey is substituting Ghost-types, as they resist Seismic Toss. I may try to fit in Ice Beam in this set in order to take out switch-in Dragons and break subs on those gosh darn Ghosts.

Jack (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/224 Def/32 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
---
This Jirachi is one of the key Pokemon on this team. Not only does this set provide considerable physical bulk with the 224 Def EVs, it has enough speed to outpace TTar, Scizor, Machamp, and packs considerable punch. Wish and Calm Mind are crucial when used in combination as they allow me to boost my stats up continuously while replenishing health and continuing my sweep. Psychic and TBolt provide great coverage (only resisted by Magnezone, who poses no threat anyways since I have acces to CM and recovery). Thanks to the many people who suggested this, it's a very effective Jirachi set.

A Woman (Rotom-w) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spe/252 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
---
Self explanatory Rotom set is self explanatory. Choice Specs allow Rotom to OHKO a lot of Pokemon it could normally only 2HKO, and 2HKO and lot of pokes it could normally 3HKO.. and so on. This set not only has a lot of surprise factor, but also packs a gigantic punch, is an effective revenge killer, and cripples walls that get too comfortable via Trick. Also, I can switch in and OHKO pretty much all the standard Rapid Spinners, making this one of the most effective spin blockers. Starmie? Thunderolt. Surf won't OHKO (neither will LO Hydro Pump). Donphan? Hydro Pump. Claydol? same. Tentacruel? Thunderbolt. Foretress? I can 2KO with TBolt, sometimes OHKO with residual damage, and can cripple with trick. Anyways, this is my favorite spin blocker simply because it can force so many switches and punish incoming Pokes, making it crucial for accumulating entry hazard damage and sweeping after other Pokes have been worn down.

Robert (Flygon) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Thunderpunch
---
This Flygon is my late-game sweeper / revenge killer. Provides a check for Gyarados, as I can switch in after a DD and OHKO with Thunderpunch against non-bulky variants. I will always OHKO BulkyDos after SR support with Thunder Punch as well. Earthquake provides a check for ScarfTran, U-Turn for general scouting and for Celebi, and Outrage for finishing off weakened pokes late in the game. ​

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