Project Metagame Workshop

[Wes8888]

New Premise: You build a team of 6, if the pokemon you send out has a prevo, it will be accompanied by said prevo with as similar of a set as possible, if it doesn't have a prevo it'll be all alone :( . The prevo's condition when it comes back in stays the same when it switches in and out (ex: If the nacl accompanying garg gets hit down to 80% then the next time garg comes in it's nacl will still be at 80%, if it got burned it'll still be burned, etc.)
Increased Viability: Pokemon with strong Pre-Evolutions like Kingambit, suicide leads like Glimmora bc now they have little buddies to help them set stuff up, and then the prevos can support their FE friends with stiff like helping hands.
Decreased Viability: Pokemon with no prevos will have to play 2v1, and pokemon with really weak prevos like Gholdengo and Armorouge/Ceruledge may not have enough firepower to deal with both opposing pokemon.

I like this version a lot better than the original since it's much simpler but keeps the main feature that I wanted, which is balancing one set between two different mons.

This meta will be ubers based since most ubers right now lack prevos, but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on Annihilape.

Ty Kaen, UT, Instruct and everyone else who gave feedback :)

 

[Gekokeso]

Huh, I was just thinking of a similar concept for a meta, except it was OU Based

Seeing Double Metagame:
In this meta, PU and Below ranked Pokémon are able to make a copy of themselves in the field with their exact stats, ability and moves.

Example: fights against a . On switch, it summons a to aid it in battle. Now, while the opponent is playing with just a Bisharp you are playing with two Wigglytuffs against it.

Mechanics:

• Only one Summoner mon allowed per team
• The Summoner mon must have “-D” in its name to summon a clone (aka Wigglytuff-D)
• The Clone is always summoned at full hp every time the summoner enters the field, but only has 5pp on all its moves (ala ditto).
• When a Summoner Pokémon faints or leaves the field, the clone faints.
• The summoned mon can be targeted by attacks, as well as attack the opponent and affect the summoner.
• The Clone has the same exact stats, ability and moves as the Pokémon that summoned it.
• The Clone can’t copy the item of the summoner mon.

Bans: Fake Out

 

[DiglettWasTaken]

Wrongs Make Rights
"Charizard, Tackle attack!"
Metagame premise: Pokémon can only learn moves they usually cannot.
Potential bans and threats: BAN: OHKO Moves, Baton Pass, Shell Smash, No Retreat, Extreme Speed, Spore, Revival Blessing.
WATCH: Light Screen, Reflect, Toxic, Quiver Dance, Dragon Dance, Population Bomb, Transform
Questions for the community:
Would this be too similar to other metagames or is this unique enough?
Could this still be fun due to the lack of "meta" moves? (My only really big concern.)

 

[Wes8888]

Wrongs Make Rights
"Charizard, Tackle attack!"
Metagame premise: Pokémon can only learn moves they usually cannot.
Potential bans and threats: BAN: OHKO Moves, Baton Pass, Shell Smash, No Retreat, Extreme Speed, Spore, Revival Blessing.
WATCH: Light Screen, Reflect, Toxic, Quiver Dance, Dragon Dance, Population Bomb, Transform
Questions for the community:
Would this be too similar to other metagames or is this unique enough?
Could this still be fun due to the lack of "meta" moves? (My only really big concern.)

This is one of the ideas under the "commonly rejected metagames" section of post one on this thread.

 

[DiglettWasTaken]

This is one of the ideas under the "commonly rejected metagames" section of post one on this thread.

oh, dang. didn't see it there :(

 

[lolgod3]

Huh, I was just thinking of a similar concept for a meta, except it was OU Based

Seeing Double Metagame:
In this meta, PU and Below ranked Pokémon are able to make a copy of themselves in the field with their exact stats, ability and moves.

Example: fights against a . On switch, it summons a to aid it in battle. Now, while the opponent is playing with just a Bisharp you are playing with two Wigglytuffs against it.

Mechanics:

• Only one Summoner mon allowed per team
• The Summoner mon must have “-D” in its name to summon a clone (aka Wigglytuff-D)
• The Clone is always summoned at full hp every time the summoner enters the field, but only has 5pp on all its moves (ala ditto).
• When a Summoner Pokémon faints or leaves the field, the clone faints.
• The summoned mon can be targeted by attacks, as well as attack the opponent and affect the summoner.
• The Clone has the same exact stats, ability and moves as the Pokémon that summoned it.
• The Clone can’t copy the item of the summoner mon.

Bans: Fake Out

Psyspam and sun bouta have a fun time

Anyways I do believe that this would be a bit unbalanced, because there's mons in PU that's actually decent in OU/UU (AHEM scovillain and indeedee-f), and I don't think there's many mons that can tank 2 attacks from slaking in 1 turn. Rabsca spams revive and heals everything on their team and overall I think this might be quite unbalanced. Also, this would just be regular OU but there's a few things that gets 2 attacks, earthquake is nerfed, and fake out doesn't exist.

 

[Apollo ChaoZ]

New Premise: You build a team of 6, if the pokemon you send out has a prevo, it will be accompanied by said prevo with as similar of a set as possible, if it doesn't have a prevo it'll be all alone :( . The prevo's condition when it comes back in stays the same when it switches in and out (ex: If the nacl accompanying garg gets hit down to 80% then the next time garg comes in it's nacl will still be at 80%, if it got burned it'll still be burned, etc.)
Increased Viability: Pokemon with strong Pre-Evolutions like Kingambit, suicide leads like Glimmora bc now they have little buddies to help them set stuff up, and then the prevos can support their FE friends with stiff like helping hands.
Decreased Viability: Pokemon with no prevos will have to play 2v1, and pokemon with really weak prevos like Gholdengo and Armorouge/Ceruledge may not have enough firepower to deal with both opposing pokemon.

I like this version a lot better than the original since it's much simpler but keeps the main feature that I wanted, which is balancing one set between two different mons.

This meta will be ubers based since most ubers right now lack prevos, but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on Annihilape.

Ty Kaen, UT, Instruct and everyone else who gave feedback :)

Do you have a name for this meta yet? It could be an alliteration with sidekick if you don't have any ideas. Seems like a fun om!

 

[DosDogs]

Hero's Journey​

What if all Pokemon could get a boost when switching out? A new mon released in Gen 9 with the Zero to Hero ability, this ability (Palafin specific) changes Palafin from a weaker form to a super strong "Hero" form. This OM allows all Pokemon to get a similar boost.

This will work by providing a 40% boost to all a mons base stats(excluding HP), so a mon with 100 base Attack will have 140 base HP upon reentering battle. Stats cap at 225. Stats round down(or however is easier to implement)
ex.
Dragapults stats normally: 88/120/75/100/75/142
Dragapults stats after reentering battle: 88/168/105/140/105/198
Rules:
Mechanic: provides a 40% boost to all a Pokemon's base stats(excluding HP) when it reenters battle.
Clauses: Standard OMs, Sleep Moves Clause, Min Source Gen=9, Evasion Clause
Bans: Baton Pass(would be broken), kings rock, shed tail, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Palafin,probably the box legends too,

Strategy:
Ubers meta to start. The overall meta is going to be focused on pivot moves and mons to pivot into, meaning Hazards are going to be great. Moves like U-Turn and Parting Shot are going to be used on every mon and tanks like pex are going to be used as a pivot, but many different mons can be used as well. Mons with better stat spreads will get better, while mons with bad stat spreads will be overwhelmed.

Increased Viability:
Dragapult- If you thought this was good in OU, wait til its stats become even more broken. As one of the fastest mons in Gen 9 and having u-turn for pivot, it would be terrifying to face without a mon thats been Heroed.
Toxapex- The defenses go up by a lot, plus regenerator mons are going to benefit a lot from this meta.
Flutter Mane- Flutter Mane gets faster and still has access to booster energy, making it super speedy. It also can still hit like a truck, and tank a SpA attack.
Decreased Viability:
Blissey/Chansey- They gain little/no Defense, making them less bulky due to power creep.
Locking moves(Outrage, Giga Impact, etc.) locking yourself from switching even when you are Heroed is bad, because all your opponents mons are going to run pivots.

Q and A:
Q: What happens if the stat goes over 255?
A: The stat becomes 255.

Q: How will I know if a mon is in Hero form?
A: A text box under the name (similar to MnM) will appear if in Hero form.

Q:How does Palafin work?
A: I don't know how that code would work, but it would be broken if the 40% boost is applied at all.

So.... What do you guys think?
Also a few questions,
It was pointed out to me that bulky mons gain a lot more then offensive mons if its a 40% increase across the board, and a meta full of stall is not fun to play, so I want to fix that. I am thinking about 2 options. One is to make the bulk stat have a lower % increase(idk how much, let me know what % seems balanced) or making it so, like palafin, HP is unaffected.
Another question is should it really be a % increase? it could be a set increase, like attacking stats gain 50 base points after switching out, you gain 30 hp points, 40 points on each defense, and 30 speed, or something like that

 

[urkerab]

Another question is should it really be a % increase? it could be a set increase, like attacking stats gain 50 base points after switching out, you gain 30 hp points, 40 points on each defense, and 30 speed, or something like that

Palafin's actual stat boosts are +0/+90/+25/+53/+25/+0; the (Sp.) Def looks like a flat +25, while the Sp. Atk is doubled, but the Atk I can't figure out.

Flat boosts work out better for weaker Pokémon e.g. for +25 to (Sp.) Def Drifblim gets 40% bulkier but Toxapex only gets 15% for the same stat boost. On the other hand, if you are going to boost HP as well (what do you do about damage taken before switching out?) then you would compensate for that somewhat e.g. also giving +25 to HP would means Toxapex does now get 40% more bulk although Drifblim is still slightly better at 55%.

 

[KaenSoul]

It was pointed out to me that bulky mons gain a lot more then offensive mons if its a 40% increase across the board, and a meta full of stall is not fun to play, so I want to fix that. I am thinking about 2 options. One is to make the bulk stat have a lower % increase(idk how much, let me know what % seems balanced) or making it so, like palafin, HP is unaffected.

I think ignoring HP is the best option, as your other options sounds like trying to make a more complex formula, and that's a big no.
Anyway, like usual, when/if you submit this you will have to explain how this would be a good alternative when compared to all the other stats boosting formats we have, and a problem I see with this one is that "if everyone changes the exact same way, everyone stays the same", and that's a big reason to go with % instead of flat numbers here.
Also, if you want a different name, I think "Hero's Journey" could work.

 

[DosDogs]

I think ignoring HP is the best option, as your other options sounds like trying to make a more complex formula, and that's a big no.
Anyway, like usual, when/if you submit this you will have to explain how this would be a good alternative when compared to all the other stats boosting formats we have, and a problem I see with this one is that "if everyone changes the exact same way, everyone stays the same", and that's a big reason to go with % instead of flat numbers here.
Also, if you want a different name, I think "Hero's Journey" could work.

Thanks! Several people have also said that ignoring HP is the best option so that's the route I will take, also I love the name! Any other criticisms/recommendations? I do want to submit it and want to have it as honed as possible.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Thanks! Several people have also said that ignoring HP is the best option so that's the route I will take, also I love the name! Any other criticisms/recommendations? I do want to submit it and want to have it as honed as possible.

Flat numbers won't actually change things less than percentages.

Here's a normal Glalie vs Toxapex:

252+ SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 134-162 (44 - 53.2%)​

Here's what happens when both Pokemon have their actual stats boosted by 50% (the equivalent of a +1 stat modifier)

+1 252+ SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 134-162 (44 - 53.2%)​

notice how it's the exact same as vanilla​

Here's what happens when both Pokemon have their base stats increased by 50% (80->120, 142->213)

252+ SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 122-146 (40.1 - 48%)​

notice how it favors the Pokemon whose base stat is already higher​

Here's what happens when both Pokemon have their base stats increased by a flat 50 (80->130, 142->192)

252+ SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%)​

notice how it favors the Pokemon whose base stat is usually lower​

Personally, I think the flat boost is a lot more interesting than the rich-get-richer meta of percentages, though you'll maybe need to convince people what this brings over Tier Shift, which also has the underlying theme of "give bigger stat buffs to weaker mons"

 

[Cuddly]

Proto-Drive Energy​

Premise: In this Meta, every Pokemon has Protosynthesis/Quark Drive on top of their own abilities.

Potential Bans:
(coming soon)
Unburden as an ability would be a given problematic ability. With Booster Energy, you not only double your speed but also give yourself a free life orb boost to which ever is your more prominent offensive stat.

(If it returns in the DLC)
For obvious reasons, these Pokemon will be extremely influential. Only way for a Pokemon to even activate Protosynthesis or Quark Drive is with Sun/Electric Terrain repectfully. Namely Torkoal however. Having better stats, better utility, and Sun being more interactive means most people will choose to use Sun strates. However Pincurchin does have the notable advantage of being a Terrain rather than Weather, meaning it can’t be replaced. Picurchin also allows you to use Water types and Fire weak Pokemon to thrive more while Sun hampers the effectiveness of most Waters.
Additionally both will always activate Protosynthesis/Quark Drive when switching in.


These Pokemon will have their own niches for the opposite reasons. They can deny Sun/Electric Terrain respectfully, which is huge for the opposite team archetype. Want to stop your opponent's Quark Drives while on Sun? Run Indeedee as well. Want to stop Protosynthesis on Electric Terrain teams? Use Pelipper or Sand Stream or Snow Warning. You can of course also have a standard offensive team with either, using Booster Energies while denying your opponent's Paradox Boosts centered around field conditions.

Questions:
-How should a Pokemon determine if they are a Protosynthesis Pokemon or a Quark Drive Pokemon? Ideally it should be more cosmetic, so Shininess (Standard for Protosynthesis, Shiny for Quark Drive) seems like the best bet, but I'd like to hear your suggestions.
-Should the Paradox abilities interact when on a Paradox Pokemon? Like if I had Roaring Moon with Protosynthesis, should its most dominant stat receive a x1.69; or x2.25 to speed boost? Or what if it had Quark Drive while Sun and Electric Terrain were up? This would greatly determine the viability and brokeness of most Paradox Pokemon.

 

[prunyy]

Final Will​

Premise: When a pokemon faints, its last move is added to the moves of the pokemon that comes in. This can stack, letting a pokemon have nine moves.

Bans: Obviously banning the box arts here.
The bans should probably be moves that pokemon should not be getting like Extreme Speed or Shell Smash.

Strategy:
Ting-Lu has the chance to get reliable recovery
Offensive sweepers you hold in the back now can have a ton of coverage or better set-up moves they normally wouldn’t have.
Suicide leads have the sole purpose of dying after they do what they do. Putting a good move for another pokemon ensures that you aren’t risking much and still getting the benefits of more moves.
Strategic sacks can be interesting to give yourself a better position against your opponent.
Cloyster can do funny business with Maushold. You can make Maushold like some sort of anti-hazard lead with Tidy Up, and then when it dies you bring in Cloyster.

I would do more theorymoning, but this one of those OMs that depend on the team as a whole rather than individual pokemon.

Questions for the Community:

Would this compete from like the nine different OMs that give pokemon moves or is it different and interesting enough?

 

[prunyy]

Proto-Drive Energy​

Premise: In this Meta, every Pokemon has Protosynthesis/Quark Drive on top of their own abilities.

Potential Bans:
(coming soon)
Unburden as an ability would be a given problematic ability. With Booster Energy, you not only double your speed but also give yourself a free life orb boost to which ever is your more prominent offensive stat.

(If it returns in the DLC)
For obvious reasons, these Pokemon will be extremely influential. Only way for a Pokemon to even activate Protosynthesis or Quark Drive is with Sun/Electric Terrain repectfully. Namely Torkoal however. Having better stats, better utility, and Sun being more interactive means most people will choose to use Sun strates. However Pincurchin does have the notable advantage of being a Terrain rather than Weather, meaning it can’t be replaced. Picurchin also allows you to use Water types and Fire weak Pokemon to thrive more while Sun hampers the effectiveness of most Waters.
Additionally both will always activate Protosynthesis/Quark Drive when switching in.


These Pokemon will have their own niches for the opposite reasons. They can deny Sun/Electric Terrain respectfully, which is huge for the opposite team archetype. Want to stop your opponent's Quark Drives while on Sun? Run Indeedee as well. Want to stop Protosynthesis on Electric Terrain teams? Use Pelipper or Sand Stream or Snow Warning. You can of course also have a standard offensive team with either, using Booster Energies while denying your opponent's Paradox Boosts centered around field conditions.

Questions:
-How should a Pokemon determine if they are a Protosynthesis Pokemon or a Quark Drive Pokemon? Ideally it should be more cosmetic, so Shininess (Standard for Protosynthesis, Shiny for Quark Drive) seems like the best bet, but I'd like to hear your suggestions.
-Should the Paradox abilities interact when on a Paradox Pokemon? Like if I had Roaring Moon with Protosynthesis, should its most dominant stat receive a x1.69; or x2.25 to speed boost? Or what if it had Quark Drive while Sun and Electric Terrain were up? This would greatly determine the viability and brokeness of most Paradox Pokemon.

Buy Torkoal and Pincurchin stocks. 100% usage where we at.

My question is, why would you use something like Pelipper or Indeedee. As Proto and Quark provide offensive and defensive boosts depending on your stats, there should be no reason not to invest into those.

This game will just turn into OU but Sun and Electric Terrain are always active and everything is buffed by a bit.

Maybe I’m looking at this wrong, but I don’t think this OM would be too interesting.

As for your questions,

I think that shininess is the easiest way to go about this. It doesn’t interfere with the actual pokemon so it should be fine.

Protosynthesis or Quark Drive stacking on each other could be way too strong. I’m not sure how the code works if you put Protosynthesis and Quark Drive together in something like Multibility or PiC, but it would probably follow whatever that does.

 

[Cuddly]

My question is, why would you use something like Pelipper or Indeedee. As Proto and Quark provide offensive and defensive boosts depending on your stats, there should be no reason not to invest into those.

You'd use them to block opposing teams and have the Paradox Boost advantage.
Say you have a Sun team and you're fighting an Electric Terrain team. If you put Indeedee on your team, you could deny Quark Drive on your opponent's team while maintaining your own boosts. You also get the natural benefits of Psychic Terrain. The opposite is also true for Electric Terrain teams where using Pelipper means they deny Protosynthesis boosts will still abusing Quark Drive, and you also get the benefits of Rain too.

 

[Blizihguh]

Final Will​

Premise: When a pokemon faints, its last move is added to the moves of the pokemon that comes in. This can stack, letting a pokemon have nine moves.

Bans: Obviously banning the box arts here.
The bans should probably be moves that pokemon should not be getting like Extreme Speed or Shell Smash.

Strategy:
Ting-Lu has the chance to get reliable recovery
Offensive sweepers you hold in the back now can have a ton of coverage or better set-up moves they normally wouldn’t have.
Suicide leads have the sole purpose of dying after they do what they do. Putting a good move for another pokemon ensures that you aren’t risking much and still getting the benefits of more moves.
Strategic sacks can be interesting to give yourself a better position against your opponent.
Cloyster can do funny business with Maushold. You can make Maushold like some sort of anti-hazard lead with Tidy Up, and then when it dies you bring in Cloyster.

I would do more theorymoning, but this one of those OMs that depend on the team as a whole rather than individual pokemon.

Questions for the Community:

Would this compete from like the nine different OMs that give pokemon moves or is it different and interesting enough?

Whoa, this is really cool. I don't think it competes much with other new-moves OMs; formats like STABmons and Inheritance give you more power to play with immediately and don't have nearly as big of an effect on team structures. The buffs you get are somewhat more limited (you have to plan your team around getting them and then actually sac to get them), but also more flexible (any mon can get any move, without sacrificing its own moves, and you can choose on the fly who gets what). So I think it plays very differently in practice.

I do have a few questions. Does every mon on your team get the move from a sac'd mon, or is it just the next mon you send out? So if I lose Maushold turn 1, does my entire team get Pop Bomb, or just the next mon that comes out? I don't really have a strong opinion about which is better, but they are very distinct from one another. Also, can a mon pass on a move that it inherited? Going back to the Cloyster/Maushold example, if Maushold dies into Cloyster, does Cloyster's death pass on Population Bomb again? This would have a pretty big effect on team structures (more passing around one or two good moves, less focus on cores who benefit from each other). It also opens up room for gimmicks, like a team that keeps passing Explosion or Final Gambit for instance.

Some more theorymon:
- Suicide leads obviously become really good. If and when Home drops, Azelf would be an absolute monster with a huge movepool to pass. I also like Zoroark-Hisui as a potential anti-lead. It'd depend on what the popular leads actually were, but it seems like it would have a good chance to kill the opposing lead, cripple it with Taunt/TrickScarf/burn, or even just Memento.
- Typespam offense in general looks better. The defining idea of "overwhelming your opponent's checks by having multiple mons with similar checks" is harder to deal with when you can pass on key coverage or utility moves.
- A lot of the most powerful attacks, previously only available on a few Pokemon as STABs, become widely available as coverage. Mons with weak or limited coverage pools are improved significantly by this: even if your opponent is weak to Iron Hands's Fire Punch, it's worse than a neutral Close Combat unless they have a double weakness. Give it Pyro Ball and now you're cooking with fire. Mons that already like their coverage actually benefit more though. Most mons with wide coverage movepools suffer from 4mss, but not only can you patch up your options here, you can actively decide which move would be most useful mid-battle. I think this would have a big impact on games; spending lots of resources killing a problem Pokemon isn't as good when it passes on its most important tool when it dies.
- Finally, something much more specific: Tinkaton gets to share its hammer :) Handing out at 160bp coverage move that hits most things neutrally is cool, and before it dies it can set up rocks or paralyze stuff. I could see something like Tinkaton into Iron Treads with Protect being very powerful with enough speed control, and oh hey, Tink can paralyze stuff. Neat.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Reviving Pokemon who have already passed their moves isn't any more useful than it already is in vanilla, since having duplicates of a given move doesn't actually give any extra PP. However, if Pawmot or Rabsca themselves faint, you now have 5 extra Revival Blessings to play with.

 

[KaenSoul]

Proto-Drive Energy​

Premise: In this Meta, every Pokemon has Protosynthesis/Quark Drive on top of their own abilities.

Potential Bans:
(coming soon)
Unburden as an ability would be a given problematic ability. With Booster Energy, you not only double your speed but also give yourself a free life orb boost to which ever is your more prominent offensive stat.

(If it returns in the DLC)
For obvious reasons, these Pokemon will be extremely influential. Only way for a Pokemon to even activate Protosynthesis or Quark Drive is with Sun/Electric Terrain repectfully. Namely Torkoal however. Having better stats, better utility, and Sun being more interactive means most people will choose to use Sun strates. However Pincurchin does have the notable advantage of being a Terrain rather than Weather, meaning it can’t be replaced. Picurchin also allows you to use Water types and Fire weak Pokemon to thrive more while Sun hampers the effectiveness of most Waters.
Additionally both will always activate Protosynthesis/Quark Drive when switching in.


These Pokemon will have their own niches for the opposite reasons. They can deny Sun/Electric Terrain respectfully, which is huge for the opposite team archetype. Want to stop your opponent's Quark Drives while on Sun? Run Indeedee as well. Want to stop Protosynthesis on Electric Terrain teams? Use Pelipper or Sand Stream or Snow Warning. You can of course also have a standard offensive team with either, using Booster Energies while denying your opponent's Paradox Boosts centered around field conditions.

Questions:
-How should a Pokemon determine if they are a Protosynthesis Pokemon or a Quark Drive Pokemon? Ideally it should be more cosmetic, so Shininess (Standard for Protosynthesis, Shiny for Quark Drive) seems like the best bet, but I'd like to hear your suggestions.
-Should the Paradox abilities interact when on a Paradox Pokemon? Like if I had Roaring Moon with Protosynthesis, should its most dominant stat receive a x1.69; or x2.25 to speed boost? Or what if it had Quark Drive while Sun and Electric Terrain were up? This would greatly determine the viability and brokeness of most Paradox Pokemon.

This falls into a rejected ideas category:

• I Sure Love Ability X: All/Some Pokemon get X ability over their normal abilities. Metas where X = Poison Heal/WonderGuard/Prankster have been rejected.

Thanks! Several people have also said that ignoring HP is the best option so that's the route I will take, also I love the name! Any other criticisms/recommendations? I do want to submit it and want to have it as honed as possible.

I don't think I have anything else to add, the concept is fine, your main job would be convincing it has a niche over other similar formats and that it will be different enough from standard play to be worth existing.
May make the ban list a bit bigger, doubt stuff like Chi-Yu will be any less broken here.

Final Will​

Premise: When a pokemon faints, its last move is added to the moves of the pokemon that comes in. This can stack, letting a pokemon have nine moves.

Bans: Obviously banning the box arts here.
The bans should probably be moves that pokemon should not be getting like Extreme Speed or Shell Smash.

Strategy:
Ting-Lu has the chance to get reliable recovery
Offensive sweepers you hold in the back now can have a ton of coverage or better set-up moves they normally wouldn’t have.
Suicide leads have the sole purpose of dying after they do what they do. Putting a good move for another pokemon ensures that you aren’t risking much and still getting the benefits of more moves.
Strategic sacks can be interesting to give yourself a better position against your opponent.
Cloyster can do funny business with Maushold. You can make Maushold like some sort of anti-hazard lead with Tidy Up, and then when it dies you bring in Cloyster.

I would do more theorymoning, but this one of those OMs that depend on the team as a whole rather than individual pokemon.

Questions for the Community:

Would this compete from like the nine different OMs that give pokemon moves or is it different and interesting enough?

This seems fine, we have rejected plenty of extra move slot formats in the past, but I guess this balance the idea better.
Would really prefer if the move gets added to all the remaining team members for the mechanic to be more impactful.
Maybe you could make PP carry over to not have to ban revival blessing right away.

 

[prunyy]

I do have a few questions. Does every mon on your team get the move from a sac'd mon, or is it just the next mon you send out? So if I lose Maushold turn 1, does my entire team get Pop Bomb, or just the next mon that comes out? I don't really have a strong opinion about which is better, but they are very distinct from one another. Also, can a mon pass on a move that it inherited? Going back to the Cloyster/Maushold example, if Maushold dies into Cloyster, does Cloyster's death pass on Population Bomb again? This would have a pretty big effect on team structures (more passing around one or two good moves, less focus on cores who benefit from each other). It also opens up room for gimmicks, like a team that keeps passing Explosion or Final Gambit for instance.

So the original idea was to only have the next pokemon that comes in have the new move, but I agree with KaenSoul in that making the entire team get it is more impactful.
In the original idea where only the immediate next pokemon gets the move, the inherited move can also be passed back on. If Maushold dies turn one, giving Population Bomb to Cloyster, then Cloyster dies after, Muk, for example, can switch in and gain Population Bomb, as it is the last move in Cloyster’s moveset.

Reviving Pokemon who have already passed their moves isn't any more useful than it already is in vanilla, since having duplicates of a given move doesn't actually give any extra PP. However, if Pawmot or Rabsca themselves faint, you now have 5 extra Revival Blessings to play with.

I think Revival Blessing would be in the banlist. Maybe there should be a list of completely banned moves, and a list of moves that can’t be passed. Revival Blessing would fit this second list. Or I can do what KaenSoul suggested and carry over PP across the entire team.

This seems fine, we have rejected plenty of extra move slot formats in the past, but I guess this balance the idea better.
Would really prefer if the move gets added to all the remaining team members for the mechanic to be more impactful.
Maybe you could make PP carry over to not have to ban revival blessing right away.

I think the premise should be adjusted to the fourth move rather than the last, otherwise the same move would keep getting passed across the entire team. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Defensive teams can get around the "duplicate moves don't get more PP" thing by stacking multiple recovery moves like Recover, Roost, and Slack Off. Though considering the gameplan of stall is "don't die in the first place" I'm not sure how useful this would actually be. Maybe on balance.


The nature of this metagame could potentially make it much harder to identify a Zoroark. Did that Rotom use Flamethrower because it's actually a Zoroark, or because it recieved it from the Garchomp that fainted?

 

[Blizihguh]

Defensive teams can get around the "duplicate moves don't get more PP" thing by stacking multiple recovery moves like Recover, Roost, and Slack Off. Though considering the gameplan of stall is "don't die in the first place" I'm not sure how useful this would actually be. Maybe on balance.

As a stall player at heart I think this is mostly irrelevant except in stall vs stall matchups. The only other time you use all 8pp are stall vs balance matchups where your opponent loses all their wincons but you make some major error and you both end up kind of floundering. Stall is interesting here though; there are a lot of potential stall mons that would be much better with Roost or equivalent, but running those is still kind of a risk, because you're banking on something else dying to support them. On the other hand, if you just run a more traditional build, putting utility moves in the last slot provides crazy role compression. Often stall teams lose because a key member dies, and they lose access to status removal/hazard removal/(p)hazing/something similar. Of course status removal got snapped () but in general I think it would be a bit harder to fight a stall team where losing a mon doesn't necessarily mean losing its key move.

This snail seems cool btw

snail

Wo-Chien @ Light Clay
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Knock Off
- Recover

Edit: Thought of another thing that seems cool, and also actually good unlike wo chien which is destined to be mid forever

moth

Glimmora is a good lead for offense teams that happens to have two coveted special attacks in Earth Power and Power Gem. Volcarona is a good wincon that already pairs well with Glimmora. Now it can have even better coverage :) Volcarona in OU already runs Tera Blast for ground coverage, so at a minimum you're saving the need to Tera. Obviously Volcarona isn't the only thing that works for a late game mon with a big pile of coverage options though, this is just one core that seems really effective and splashable. If this ended up being a popular archetype, I think the dominant version would be with something like Dragapult that doesn't need a boost to outspeed, just because the opponent is likely to pass on at least one move that will stop you from setting up. On the other hand though, Volcarona can potentially snowball with only one or two sacs. So it at least has that over faster mons.

 

[DosDogs]

As a stall player at heart I think this is mostly irrelevant except in stall vs stall matchups. The only other time you use all 8pp are stall vs balance matchups where your opponent loses all their wincons but you make some major error and you both end up kind of floundering. Stall is interesting here though; there are a lot of potential stall mons that would be much better with Roost or equivalent, but running those is still kind of a risk, because you're banking on something else dying to support them. On the other hand, if you just run a more traditional build, putting utility moves in the last slot provides crazy role compression. Often stall teams lose because a key member dies, and they lose access to status removal/hazard removal/(p)hazing/something similar. Of course status removal got snapped () but in general I think it would be a bit harder to fight a stall team where losing a mon doesn't necessarily mean losing its key move.

This snail seems cool btw

snail

Wo-Chien @ Light Clay
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Knock Off
- Recover

Edit: Thought of another thing that seems cool, and also actually good unlike wo chien which is destined to be mid forever

moth

Glimmora is a good lead for offense teams that happens to have two coveted special attacks in Earth Power and Power Gem. Volcarona is a good wincon that already pairs well with Glimmora. Now it can have even better coverage :) Volcarona in OU already runs Tera Blast for ground coverage, so at a minimum you're saving the need to Tera. Obviously Volcarona isn't the only thing that works for a late game mon with a big pile of coverage options though, this is just one core that seems really effective and splashable. If this ended up being a popular archetype, I think the dominant version would be with something like Dragapult that doesn't need a boost to outspeed, just because the opponent is likely to pass on at least one move that will stop you from setting up. On the other hand though, Volcarona can potentially snowball with only one or two sacs. So it at least has that over faster mons.

It's kinda funny how you guys are theorymoning for a meta that doesn't exist, so I will join in for fun

"fun"

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Surf
- Haze
- Recover
- Salt Cure

and now you have more chip than ever

Espeed with Dragon STAB

Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Darts

Looks like a great Espeed giver and now has a 100 bp STAB move that goes through sash. And doesnt seem bad either.

Also I think this meta would be so fun, it would be one of those metas you build 30 teams for(I have over 40 CE teams lol)

 

[Lectrys]

Final Will​

Premise: When a pokemon faints, its last move is added to the moves of the pokemon that comes in. This can stack, letting a pokemon have nine moves.

Bans: Obviously banning the box arts here.
The bans should probably be moves that pokemon should not be getting like Extreme Speed or Shell Smash.

Strategy:
Ting-Lu has the chance to get reliable recovery
Offensive sweepers you hold in the back now can have a ton of coverage or better set-up moves they normally wouldn’t have.
Suicide leads have the sole purpose of dying after they do what they do. Putting a good move for another pokemon ensures that you aren’t risking much and still getting the benefits of more moves.
Strategic sacks can be interesting to give yourself a better position against your opponent.
Cloyster can do funny business with Maushold. You can make Maushold like some sort of anti-hazard lead with Tidy Up, and then when it dies you bring in Cloyster.

I would do more theorymoning, but this one of those OMs that depend on the team as a whole rather than individual pokemon.

Questions for the Community:

Would this compete from like the nine different OMs that give pokemon moves or is it different and interesting enough?

I don't think this is competing with other move-donating OMs - I think this is competing with the Gen 7 OM Last Will:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/last-will.3601362/

Last Will's mechanic: Every Pokemon will use the move in their last moveslot before fainting in battle only if they can normally perform the move (such as not being able to use Stealth Rock under the influence of Taunt.)

Use the "Final Will" name and I will confuse it with Last Will every time.

 

[RNGWizard]

Sneak Peek​

Premise: When your pokemon is sent out, it gets a 5th move that is copied from your opponent’s 4th moveslot, which stays until your pokemon switches out. That 5th move will have the same amount of remaining pp as your opponent’s 4th move.
Potential bans: normal OU bans
Strategy:
- Since the opponent gets access to your last move, you will have to make sure that anything you put in the 4th move slot can’t be abused by your opponent.
- It’s probably a bad idea to put powerful set up moves like shell smash there as they allow opposing mons who don’t normally have access to those to use them.
- Baiting switches from the opponent is important in this format to potentially gain a certain move from a certain mon.
- Pokemon that can function well with only 3 moves could be good here as they could run a useless 4th move and won’t have to give the opponent a viable move.
Questions:
What should happen if your mon already has the move in your opponent’s 4th moveslot?
If a mon runs out of pp on their 4th move, what should happen when an opposing mon switches in?