Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

Fiend

someguy
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That's part Dark though
And fire! Therefore it's a fire-type special attacker which is actually "good." But if you want a mono-fire type Special attacker, you're less likely to get that than anything i hope for, unless a lot of stuff is banned.

Also another thing I want from SuMo is a surge surfer pokemon in lc, which has decent stats and access to Electric terrain. It'd be a decent sweeper / cleaner, and probably viable enough but not super viable that it can be used in SPL and LCPL with decent success. Theoretically this Pokemon also shits on Diglett and Choice-scarf revenge killers, while also keeping a decent amount of bulk since no -1 defense drops as seen with Shell Smash. My idea isn't totally meshed out but like give mag surfer surfer + electric terrain and that's a basically what i want.

Also free automatize Mag, that'd be cool as hell with life orb.
 
What are yall hoping to get from gen 7? I kinda hope more playstyles are available. Specific team style are not really viable like tr, rain, etc besides maybe sticky web. I also hope to see more hazard removal.
- A 100% accurate 95 power special flying move with no drawbacks that is common amongst flying types. Fuck Hurricane, Fuck Air Slash.
- a 100% accurate 95 power physical flying move with no drawbacks that is common amongst flying types. Fuck Brave Bird, Fuck Acrobatics.
- Thunder wave nerf. Scald nerf.
- No stall so I can start playing other tiers again
- Better Hazard removal in LC
- Ice types/Hail to get a boost. Why does Ice not resist grass or flying? Why is it weak to fighting? Why are they all defensive when it's one of the worst defensive types? Why does hail do nothing but chip damage and a 100% accurace blizzard?
- More viable type spam teams
- Z moves :]
- about 30 other things I've forgotten about
 

Merritt

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- A 100% accurate 95 power special flying move with no drawbacks that is common amongst flying types. Fuck Hurricane, Fuck Air Slash.
- a 100% accurate 95 power physical flying move with no drawbacks that is common amongst flying types. Fuck Brave Bird, Fuck Acrobatics.
Ghost type moves by base power:
-Hex (130) [requires status]
-Shadow Force (120) [2 turn, Giratina exclusive]
-Phantom Force (90) [2 turn]
-Shadow Ball (80) [20% chance to lower SpDef (is that notable)]
-Shadow Claw (70) [like slash, but for ghosts]
-Hex (65) [no status]

Dark type moves by base power:
-Hyperspace Fury (100) [Hoopa-U exclusive, lowers defense]
-Knock Off (97.5) [when removing opponent's item]
-Foul Play (95) [uses opponent's attack stat]
-Night Daze (85) [Zorua-oark exclusive]
-Sucker Punch (80) [+1 priority, only acts if opponent selects attacking move]
-Crunch (80) [20% chance to lower Def (is that notable either)]
-Dark Pulse (80) [20% chance to flinch (this is notable.)]
-Night Slash (70) [like slash, but for the night BATMAN darks]
-Knock Off (65) [targets with no item/unremovable item (not with sticky hold haha fuck trubbish)]

Dark Types and Ghost Types really would like at least the option of a move with 90 base power (100 would be nice too) that isn't either locked up behind pretty restricting restrictions (hex, phantom force, foul play) or signature (shadow force, hyperspace fury, hell even night daze). Knock Off is great and all but 65 base power is really goddamn awful.

For reference, here's Fire.
-V-create (180) [Victini/Rayquaza exclusive, lowers speed and both defenses]
-Eruption (150) [base power varies by HP]
-Blast Burn (150) [like hyper beam, but for fire starters and Arceus]
-Overheat (130) [lowers SpA by 2, came before Draco Meteor]
-Blue Flare (130) [like scald (30% burns) but fire type and Reshiram exclusive]
-Flare Blitz (120) [user takes 1/3 of damage done, 10% chance to burn (this is notable)]
-Fire Blast (110) [better accuracy than Hydro Pump, 10% chance to burn]
-Inferno (100) [100% burns, 50% hits. Collected data suggests it actually has higher accuracy than High Jump Kick]
-like three signature moves (100) [one of em has a 10% chance to burn, one has a 50%, and one has a 0%]
-Heat Wave (95) [10% chance to burn]
-Flamethrower (90) [10% chance to burn. Literally 0 drawbacks]
-Blaze Kick (85) [like slash, but for fire types(?), stronger, and with a foot. 10% chance to burn]

Lots of signature moves, granted, but we'll do a different one. Howzabout Ground?
-Precipice Blades (120) [Groudon exclusive]
-Earthquake (100) [power doubles if opponent uses dig]
-Earth Power (90) [10% chance to lower opponent's SpDef (this isn't notable)]

Earthquake has literally 0 drawbacks, is 100 base power, 100 accuracy.

I'd even take Hurricane for Ghost Types, just give em something with more than 80 Base Power that isn't restricted somehow.
 

Corporal Levi

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Hi there! As many of you know, for the past few weeks, I have been asking people for their lists of top 20 Pokemon; the results are compiled below in a few different ways. This isn't anything official, but I thought it would be interesting to see how we look at the metagame. This time, we have a total of 51 Pokemon over 41 respondents. As always, don't be mean about someone's list - I only asked people who I felt have a good grasp of the LC metagame.

If I asked you for a list and you haven't submitted yet, or you gave melon a list before he quit, feel free to submit it now and I'll add it in! If I didn't contact you but you would like to submit a list, feel free to PM me one anyway and I'll consider it (I mostly did this through the LC discord, if you don't visit that often (hi fitzy)).
067jox
1. Diglett
2. Mienfoo
3. Vullaby
4. Foongus
5. Pawniard
6. Shellder
7. Porygon
8. Fletchling
9. Timburr
10. Ponyta
11. Chinchou
12. Abra
13. Omanyte
14. Ferroseed
15. Magnemite
16. Staryu
17. Gothita
18. Carvanha
19. Scraggy
20. Corphish

Alice Kazumi
1. Croagunk
2. Mienfoo
3. Vullaby
4. Cottonee
5. Pawniard
6. Vulpix
7. Porygon
8. Magnemite
9. Omanyte
10. Ponyta
11. Drilbur
12. Timburr
13. Tirtouga
14. Wingull
15. Chinchou
16. Abra
17. Gastly
18. Archen
19. Foongus
20. Houndour

Altariel von Sweep
1. Mienfoo
2. Porygon
3. Pawniard
4. Diglett
5. Fletchling
6. Snubbull
7. Snivy
8. Gothita
9. Stunky
10. Foongus
11. Zigzagoon
12. Magnemite
13. Cottonee
14. Vullaby
15. Drilbur
16. Croagunk
17. Chinchou
18. Larvesta
19. Pumpkaboo
20. Archen

Antgeezy
1. Diglett
2. Porygon
3. Mienfoo
4. Pawniard
5. Abra
6. Foongus
7. Fletchling
8. Timburr
9. Magnemite
10. Shellder
11. Chinchou
12. Ponyta
13. Spritzee
14. Archen
15. Snubbull
16. Vullaby
17. Carvanha
18. Drilbur
19. Skrelp
20. Treecko

apt-get
1. Mienfoo
2. Chinchou
3. Abra
4. Fletchling
5. Pawniard
6. Vullaby
7. Timburr
8. Magnemite
9. Tirtouga
10. Scraggy
11. Ponyta
12. Gothita
13. Larvesta
14. Snivy
15. Gastly
16. Archen
17. Spritzee
18. Foongus
19. Diglett
20. Porygon

Bane.
1. Diglett
2. Mienfoo
3. Porygon
4. Fletchling
5. Timburr
6. Foongus
7. Pawniard
8. Shellder
9. Magnemite
10. Carvanha
11. Chinchou
12. Vullaby
13. Snivy
14. Corphish
15. Abra
16. Croagunk
17. Ferroseed
18. Omanyte
19. Ponyta
20. Gothita

Berks
1. Pawniard
2. Mienfoo
3. Shellder
4. Fletchling
5. Vullaby
6. Gastly
7. Chinchou
8. Foongus
9. Ponyta
10. Magnemite
11. Diglett
12. Porygon
13. Abra
14. Gothita
15. Snivy
16. Staryu
17. Croagunk
18. Spritzee
19. Archen
20. Cranidos

Celestavian
1. Mienfoo
2. Timburr
3. Porygon
4. Pawniard
5. Ponyta
6. Diglett
7. Foongus
8. Fletchling
9. Vullaby
10. Abra
11. Spritzee
12. Magnemite
13. Staryu
14. Drilbur
15. Omanyte
16. Corphish
17. Gastly
18. Snivy
19. Carvanha
20. Skrelp

Coconut
1. Cottonee
2. Mienfoo
3. Porygon
4. Diglett
5. Gothita
6. Shellder
7. Pawniard
8. Fletchling
9. Timburr
10. Magnemite
11. Ponyta
12. Foongus
13. Vullaby
14. Omanyte
15. Staryu
16. Gastly
17. Spritzee
18. Onix
19. Chinchou
20. Abra
21. Drilbur
22. Scraggy
23. Snivy
24. Ferroseed
25. Corphish
26. Croagunk
27. Skrelp
28. Snubbull
29. Tirtouga
30. Archen

Confide
1. Magnemite
2. Vullaby
3. Mienfoo
4. Diglett
5. Ponyta
6. Abra
7. Porygon
8. Aipom
9. Pawniard
10. Tirtouga
11. Corphish
12. Shellder
13. Croagunk
14. Fletchling
15. Omanyte
16. Scraggy
17. Foongus
18. Timburr
19. Staryu
20. Spritzee
21. Skrelp
22. Diglett
23. Pancham
24. Carvanha
25. Torchic
26. Larvesta
27. Pumpkaboo

dsr95
1. Mienfoo
2. Porygon
3. Pawniard
4. Foongus
5. Diglett
6. Magnemite
7. Fletchling
8. Shellder
9. Vullaby
10. Cottonee
11. Ponyta
12. Chinchou
13. Gothita
14. Omanyte
15. Timburr
16. Spritzee
17. Archen
18. Tirtouga
19. Croagunk
20. Corphish

fatty
1. Cottonee
2. Diglett
3. Mienfoo
4. Abra
5. Pawniard
6. Fletchling
7. Chinchou
8. Archen
9. Porygon
10. Ponyta
11. Vullaby
12. Timburr
13. Gastly
14. Magnemite
15. Foongus
16. Tirtouga
17. Torchic
18. Scraggy
19. Croagunk
20. Aipom
21. Shellder
22. Skrelp
23. Pumpkaboo
24. Corphish
25. Snivy

Fiend
1. Pawniard
2. Mienfoo
3. Shellder
4. Diglett
5. Fletchling
6. Vullaby
7. Cottonee
8. Porygon
9. Gothita
10. Foongus
11. Carvanha
12. Timburr
13. Magnemite
14. Abra
15. Ponyta
16. Staryu
17. Croagunk
18. Scraggy
19. Gastly
20. Chinchou

Fille
1. Mienfoo
2. Vullaby
3. Spritzee
4. Timburr
5. Abra
6. Fletchling
7. Ponyta
8. Pawniard
9. Foongus
10. Scraggy
11. Shellder
12. Cottonee
13. Gothita
14. Staryu
15. Lileep
16. Chinchou
17. Diglett
18. Snubbull
19. Meowth
20. Trubbish

fran17
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Porygon
4. Timburr
5. Abra
6. Spritzee
7. Diglett
8. Gastly
9. Snivy
10. Ponyta
11. Magnemite
12. Archen
13. Fletchling
14. Gothita
15. Cottonee
16. Staryu
17. Ferroseed
18. Skrelp
19. Drilbur
20. Carvanha
21. Scraggy

ggggd
1. Pawniard
2. Mienfoo
3. Diglett
4. Shellder
5. Magnemite
6. Porygon
7. Abra
8. Gastly
9. Foongus
10. Ponyta
11. Snivy
12. Gothita
13. Vullaby
14. Croagunk
15. Omanyte
16. Cottonee
17. Spritzee
18. Chinchou
19. Ferroseed
20. Timburr

GOAO
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Croagunk
4. Diglett
5. Ponyta
6. Vullaby
7. Magnemite
8. Fletchling
9. Foongus
10. Porygon
11. Timburr
12. Spritzee
13. Onix
14. Abra
15. Slowpoke
16. Aipom
17. Chinchou
18. Hippopotas
19. Cottonee
20. Staryu

H0W3AN
1. Mienfoo
2. Diglett
3. Pawniard
4. Porygon
5. Fletchling
6. Abra
7. Timburr
8. Carvanha
9. Foongus
10. Chinchou
11. Shellder
12. Ponyta
13. Spritzee
14. Snivy
15. Gothita
16. Gastly
17. Snubbull
18. Drilbur
19. Staryu
20. Ferroseed

Heysup
1. Mienfoo
2. Porygon
3. Cottonee
4. Timburr
5. Diglett
6. Fletchling
7. Omanyte
8. Vullaby
9. Pawniard
10. Drilbur
11. Shellder
12. Abra
13. Carvanha
14. Foongus
15. Magnemite
16. Snivy
17. Gothita
18. Onix
19. Chinchou
20. Staryu
21. Ponyta

Holiday
1. Pawniard
2. Mienfoo
3. Porygon
4. Diglett
5. Magnemite
6. Abra
7. Timburr
8. Fletchling
9. Shellder
10. Carvanha
11. Foongus
12. Vullaby
13. Snivy
14. Corphish
15. Gothita
16. Ponyta
17. Spritzee
18. Gastly
19. Zigzagoon
20. Ferroseed

Infamy
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Porygon
4. Diglett
5. Magnemite
6. Timburr
7. Fletchling
8. Abra
9. Ponyta
10. Cottonee
11. Vullaby
12. Foongus
13. Croagunk
14. Shellder
15. Omanyte
16. Snivy
17. Gastly
18. Chinchou
19. Corphish
20. Carvanha

ItzViper482
1. Diglett
2. Mienfoo
3. Vullaby
4. Pawniard
5. Chinchou
6. Foongus
7. Porygon
8. Snubbull
9. Timburr
10. Cottonee
11. Omanyte
12. Shellder
13. Abra
14. Fletchling
15. Ponyta
16. Carvanha
17. Croagunk
18. Magnemite
19. Snivy
20. Zigzagoon
21. Archen
22. Onix
23. Gothita
24. Gastly
25. Staryu

Joltage
1. Mienfoo
2. Diglett
3. Pawniard
4. Porygon
5. Magnemite
6. Vullaby
7. Ponyta
8. Fletchling
9. Abra
10. Archen
11. Shellder
12. Gothita
13. Snivy
14. Drilbur
15. Snubbull
16. Croagunk
17. Ferroseed
18. Spritzee
19. Timburr
20. Foongus

Levi
1. Foongus
2. Mienfoo
3. Porygon
4. Vullaby
5. Diglett
6. Fletchling
7. Pawniard
8. Shellder
9. Carvanha
10. Cottonee
11. Gothita
12. Magnemite
13. Chinchou
14. Ponyta
15. Staryu
16. Omanyte
17. Timburr
18. Gastly
19. Tirtouga
20. Scraggy
21. Spritzee
22. Snivy
23. Drilbur
24. Snubbull
25. Ferroseed
26. Abra
27. Croagunk
28. Corphish
29. Onix
30. Archen

majaspic22
1. Porygon
2. Mienfoo
3. Pawniard
4. Fletchling
5. Magnemite
6. Diglett
7. Foongus
8. Gastly
9. Abra
10. Vullaby
11. Corphish
12. Staryu
13. Ponyta
14. Chinchou
15. Snivy
16. Carvanha
17. Timburr
18. Gothita
19. Scraggy
20. Aipom

Mambot
1. Pawniard
2. Abra
3. Snubbull
4. Archen
5. Ferroseed
6. Mienfoo
7. Porygon
8. Foongus
9. Fletchling
10. Diglett
11. Gothita
12. Shellder
13. Aipom
14. Chinchou
15. Drilbur
16. Spritzee
17. Croagunk
18. Timburr
19. Snivy
20. Vullaby

Nineage
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Porygon
4. Shellder
5. Chinchou
6. Diglett
7. Skrelp
8. Fletchling
9. Magnemite
10. Timburr
11. Vullaby
12. Spritzee
13. Gothita
14. Snivy
15. Foongus
16. Snubbull
17. Ferroseed
18. Corphish
19. Aipom
20. Carvanha

Oma
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Diglett
4. Magnemite
5. Porygon
6. Fletchling
7. Abra
8. Gastly
9. Vullaby
10. Timburr
11. Ponyta
12. Shellder
13. Gothita
14. Carvanha
15. Omanyte
16. Foongus
17. Chinchou
18. Snivy
19. Archen
20. Spritzee

Pikasohn
1. Mienfoo
2. Chinchou
3. Pawniard
4. Magnemite
5. Zigzagoon
6. Porygon
7. Spritzee
8. Gothita
9. Cottonee
10. Diglett
11. Fletchling
12. Snivy
13. Drilbur
14. Timburr
15. Omanyte
16. Vulpix
17. Archen
18. Foongus
19. Ponyta
20. Staryu

Quote
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Diglett
4. Porygon
5. Magnemite
6. Abra
7. Fletchling
8. Gothita
9. Shellder
10. Vullaby
11. Timburr
12. Ponyta
13. Chinchou
14. Foongus
15. Staryu
16. Gastly
17. Snivy
18. Carvanha
19. Omanyte
20. Croagunk

rhydonphilip
1. Mienfoo
2. Diglett
3. Porygon
4. Magnemite
5. Gothita
6. Abra
7. Pawniard
8. Vullaby
9. Foongus
10. Ponyta
11. Snivy
12. Gastly
13. Timburr
14. Omanyte
15. Croagunk
16. Staryu
17. Chinchou
18. Spritzee
19. Snubbull
20. Fletchling

Rowan
1. Mienfoo
2. Diglett
3. Vullaby
4. Pawniard
5. Porygon
6. Magnemite
7. Ponyta
8. Chinchou
9. Abra
10. Foongus
11. Gothita
12. Timburr
13. Fletchling
14. Gastly
15. Shellder
16. Snivy
17. Snubbull
18. Staryu
19. Corphish
20. Aipom

rssp1
1. Mienfoo
2. Fletchling
3. Pawniard
4. Foongus
5. Diglett
6. Shellder
7. Abra
8. Vullaby
9. Porygon
10. Magnemite
11. Chinchou
12. Timburr
13. Corphish
14. Ponyta
15. Carvanha
16. Snubbull
17. Cottonee
18. Staryu
19. Archen
20. Omanyte

Sam-testings
1. Diglett
2. Mienfoo
3. Pawniard
4. Fletchling
5. Porygon
6. Shellder
7. Abra
8. Magnemite
9. Foongus
10. Staryu
11. Chinchou
12. Vullaby
13. Gastly
14. Timburr
15. Omanyte
16. Aipom
17. Bunnelby
18. Carvanha
19. Snivy
20. Ponyta

Sken
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Porygon
4. Diglett
5. Abra
6. Magnemite
7. Timburr
8. Foongus
9. Ponyta
10. Fletchling
11. Drilbur
12. Staryu
13. Spritzee
14. Chinchou
15. Gastly
16. Vullaby
17. Shellder
18. Onix
19. Croagunk
20. Slowpoke

Star.
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Diglett
4. Porygon
5. Fletchling
6. Magnemite
7. Gothita
8. Foongus
9. Timburr
10. Shellder
11. Vullaby
12. Abra
13. Snivy
14. Gastly
15. Cottonee
16. Ponyta
17. Chinchou
18. Archen
19. Carvanha
20. Spritzee

TheFenderStory
1. Diglett
2. Mienfoo
3. Timburr
4. Pawniard
5. Porygon
6. Foongus
7. Abra
8. Fletchling
9. Snivy
10. Vullaby
11. Corphish
12. Chinchou
13. Magnemite
14. Aipom
15. Torchic
16. Omanyte
17. Shellder
18. Gothita
19. Ponyta
20. Carvanha

tko
1. Diglett
2. Gothita
3. Pawniard
4. Mienfoo
5. Timburr
6. Fletchling
7. Shellder
8. Abra
9. Porygon
10. Chinchou
11. Cottonee
12. Snivy
13. Magnemite
14. Corphish
15. Omanyte
16. Vullaby
17. Foongus
18. Staryu
19. Gastly
20. Ferroseed
21. Onix

trash
1. Diglett
2. Gothita
3. Magnemite
4. Vullaby
5. Foongus
6. Mienfoo
7. Porygon
8. Spritzee
9. Shellder
10. Staryu
11. Pawniard
12. Abra
13. Timburr
14. Ponyta
15. Gastly
16. Fletchling
17. Trapinch
18. Cottonee
19. Chinchou
20. Honedge

Vubon
1. Mienfoo
2. Shellder
3. Fletchling
4. Magnemite
5. Vullaby
6. Foongus
7. Pawniard
8. Porygon
9. Abra
10. Snivy
11. Corphish
12. Timburr
13. Chinchou
14. Ponyta
15. Carvanha
16. Ferroseed
17. Gothita
18. Diglett
19. Staryu
20. Croagunk

WaterlessMelon
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Magnemite
4. Porygon
5. Timburr
6. Diglett
7. Foongus
8. Gothita
9. Ponyta
10. Abra
11. Gastly
12. Fletchling
13. Shellder
14. Snivy
15. Archen
16. Vullaby
17. Drilbur
18. Chinchou
19. Staryu
20. Omanyte
21. Snubbull
22. Corphish
23. Scraggy
24. Skrelp
25. Aipom

ZoroarkForever
1. Diglett
2. Mienfoo
3. Pawniard
4. Shellder
5. Magnemite
6. Porygon
7. Vullaby
8. Foongus
9. Cottonee
10. Chinchou
11. Fletchling
12. Gothita
13. Timburr
14. Staryu
15. Ponyta
16. Croagunk
17. Abra
18. Snivy
19. Omanyte
20. Onix

Abra - 12, 16, 5, 3, 15, 13, 10, 20, 6, 4, 14, 5, 5, 7, 14, 6, 12, 6, 8, 13, 9, 26, 9, 2, 7, 6, 6, 9, 7, 7, 5, 12, 7, 8, 12, 9, 10, 17
Aipom - 8, 20, 16, 20, 13, 19, 20, 16, 14, 25
Archen - 18, 20, 14, 16, 19, 30, 17, 8, 12, 21, 10, 30, 4, 19, 17, 19, 18, 15
Bunnelby - 17
Carvanha - 18, 17, 10, 19, 24, 11, 20, 8, 13, 10, 20, 16, 9, 16, 20, 14, 18, 15, 18, 19, 20, 15
Chinchou - 11, 15, 17, 11, 2, 11, 7, 19, 12, 7, 20, 16, 18, 17, 10, 19, 18, 5, 13, 14, 14, 5, 17, 2, 13, 17, 8, 11, 11, 14, 17, 12, 10, 19, 13, 18, 10
Corphish - 20, 14, 16, 25, 11, 20, 24, 14, 19, 28, 11, 18, 19, 13, 11, 14, 11, 22
Cottonee - 4, 13, 1, 10, 1, 7, 12, 15, 16, 19, 3, 10, 10, 10, 9, 17, 15, 11, 18, 9
Cranidos - 20
Croagunk - 1, 16, 16, 17, 26, 13, 19, 19, 17, 14, 3, 13, 17, 16, 27, 17, 20, 15, 19, 20, 16
Diglett - 1, 4, 1, 19, 1, 11, 6, 4, 22, 5, 2, 4, 17, 7, 3, 4, 2, 5, 4, 4, 1, 2, 5, 6, 10, 6, 3, 10, 3, 2, 2, 5, 1, 4, 3, 1, 1, 1, 18, 6, 1
Drilbur - 11, 15, 18, 14, 21, 19, 18, 10, 14, 23, 15, 13, 11, 17
Ferroseed - 14, 17, 24, 17, 19, 20, 20, 17, 25, 5, 17, 20, 16
Fletchling - 8, 5, 7, 4, 4, 4, 8, 8, 14, 7, 6, 5, 6, 13, 8, 5, 6, 8, 7, 14, 8, 6, 4, 9, 8, 6, 11, 7, 20, 13, 2, 4, 10, 5, 8, 6, 16, 3, 12, 11
Foongus - 4, 19, 10, 6, 18, 6, 8, 7, 12, 17, 4, 15, 10, 9, 9, 9, 9, 14, 11, 12, 6, 20, 1, 7, 8, 15, 16, 18, 14, 9, 10, 4, 9, 8, 8, 6, 17, 5, 6, 7, 8
Gastly - 17, 15, 6, 17, 16, 13, 19, 8, 8, 16, 18, 17, 24, 18, 8, 8, 16, 12, 14, 13, 15, 14, 19, 15, 11
Gothita - 17, 8, 12, 20, 14, 5, 13, 9, 13, 14, 12, 15, 17, 15, 23, 12, 11, 18, 11, 13, 13, 8, 8, 5, 11, 7, 18, 2, 2, 17, 8, 12
Hippopotas - 18
Honedge - 20
Houndour - 20
Larvesta - 18, 13, 26
Lileep - 15
Magnemite - 15, 8, 12, 9, 8, 9, 10, 12, 10, 1, 6, 14, 13, 11, 5, 7, 15, 5, 5, 18, 5, 12, 5, 9, 4, 4, 5, 4, 6, 10, 8, 6, 6, 13, 13, 3, 4, 3, 5
Meowth - 19
Mienfoo - 2, 2, 1, 3, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 4, 6, 1, 1, 2
Omanyte - 13, 9, 18, 15, 14, 15, 14, 15, 7, 15, 11, 16, 15, 15, 19, 14, 20, 15, 16, 15, 20, 19
Onix - 18, 13, 18, 22, 29, 18, 21, 20
Pancham - 23
Pawniard - 5, 5, 3, 4, 5, 7, 1, 4, 7, 9, 3, 5, 1, 8, 2, 1, 2, 3, 9, 1, 2, 4, 3, 7, 3, 1, 2, 2, 3, 2, 7, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 4, 3, 11, 7, 2, 3
Ponyta - 10, 10, 12, 11, 19, 9, 5, 11, 5, 11, 10, 15, 7, 10, 10, 5, 12, 21, 16, 9, 15, 7, 14, 13, 11, 19, 12, 10, 7, 14, 20, 9, 16, 19, 14, 14, 9, 15
Porygon - 7, 7, 2, 2, 20, 3, 12, 3, 3, 7, 2, 9, 8, 3, 6, 10, 4, 2, 3, 3, 7, 4, 3, 1, 7, 3, 5, 6, 4, 3, 5, 9, 5, 3, 4, 5, 9, 7, 8, 4, 6
Pumpkaboo - 19, 27, 23
Scraggy - 19, 10, 22, 16, 18, 18, 10, 21, 20, 19, 23
Shellder - 6, 10, 8, 3, 6, 12, 8, 21, 3, 11, 4, 11, 11, 9, 14, 12, 11, 8, 12, 4, 12, 9, 15, 6, 6, 17, 10, 17, 7, 9, 2, 13, 4
Skrelp - 19, 20, 27, 21, 22, 18, 7, 24
Slowpoke - 15, 20
Snivy - 7, 14, 13, 15, 18, 23, 25, 9, 11, 14, 16, 13, 16, 19, 13, 22, 15, 19, 14, 18, 12, 17, 11, 16, 19, 13, 9, 12, 10, 14, 18
Snubbull - 6, 15, 28, 18, 17, 8, 15, 24, 3, 16, 19, 17, 16, 21
Spritzee - 13, 17, 18, 11, 17, 20, 16, 3, 6, 17, 12, 13, 17, 18, 21, 16, 12, 20, 7, 18, 13, 20, 8
Staryu - 16, 16, 13, 15, 19, 16, 14, 16, 20, 19, 20, 25, 15, 12, 20, 15, 16, 18, 18, 10, 12, 18, 10, 19, 19, 14
Stunky - 9
Timburr - 9, 12, 8, 7, 5, 2, 9, 18, 15, 12, 12, 4, 4, 20, 11, 7, 4, 7, 6, 9, 19, 17, 17, 18, 10, 10, 14, 11, 13, 12, 12, 14, 7, 9, 3, 5, 13, 12, 5, 13
Tirtouga - 13, 9, 29, 10, 18, 16, 19
Torchic - 25, 17, 15
Trapinch - 17
Treecko - 20
Trubbish - 20
Vullaby - 3, 3, 14, 16, 6, 12, 5, 9, 13, 2, 9, 11, 6, 2, 13, 6, 8, 12, 11, 3, 6, 4, 10, 20, 11, 9, 10, 8, 3, 8, 12, 16, 11, 10, 16, 4, 5, 16, 7
Vulpix - 6, 16
Wingull - 14
Zigzagoon - 11, 19, 20, 5

Name - average ranking (number of inclusions)
Mienfoo - 1.8 (42)
Pawniard - 3.9 (42)
Diglett - 5.3 (41)
Porygon - 5.5 (41)
Foongus - 10 (41)
Fletchling - 7.9 (40)
Timburr - 10.4 (40)
Magnemite - 8.2 (39)
Vullaby - 9 (39)
Abra - 9.5 (38)
Ponyta - 12 (38)
Chinchou - 12.8 (37)
Shellder - 9.4 (33)
Gothita - 12 (32)
Snivy - 15 (31)
Staryu - 16.3 (26)
Gastly - 14.3 (25)
Spritzee - 14.5 (23)
Omanyte - 15 (22)
Carvanha - 15.9 (22)
Croagunk - 16.2 (21)
Cottonee - 10.5 (20)
Archen - 17.1 (18)
Corphish - 17.2 (18)
Drilbur - 15.6 (14)
Snubbull - 15.9 (14)
Ferroseed - 17.8 (13)
Scraggy - 17.8 (11)
Aipom - 17.1 (10)
Skrelp - 19.8 (8)
Onix - 19.9 (8)
Tirtouga - 16.3 (7)
Zigzagoon - 13.8 (4)
Larvesta - 19 (3)
Torchic - 19 (3)
Pumpkaboo - 23 (3)
Vulpix - 11 (2)
Slowpoke - 17.5 (2)
Stunky - 9 (1)
Wingull - 14 (1)
Lileep - 15 (1)
Bunnelby - 17 (1)
Trapinch - 17 (1)
Hippopotas - 18 (1)
Meowth - 19 (1)
Houndour - 20 (1)
Treecko - 20 (1)
Cranidos - 20 (1)
Trubbish - 20 (1)
Honedge - 20 (1)
Pancham - 23 (1)

Name - average ranking (number of inclusions)
Mienfoo - 1.8 (42)
Pawniard - 3.9 (42)
Diglett - 5.3 (41)
Porygon - 5.5 (41)
Fletchling - 7.9 (40)
Magnemite - 8.2 (39)
Vullaby - 9 (39)
Stunky - 9 (1)
Shellder - 9.4 (33)
Abra - 9.5 (38)
Foongus - 10 (41)
Timburr - 10.4 (40)
Cottonee - 10.5 (20)
Vulpix - 11 (2)
Ponyta - 12 (38)
Gothita - 12 (32)
Chinchou - 12.8 (37)
Zigzagoon - 13.8 (4)
Wingull - 14 (1)
Gastly - 14.3 (25)
Spritzee - 14.5 (23)
Snivy - 15 (31)
Omanyte - 15 (22)
Lileep - 15 (1)
Drilbur - 15.6 (14)
Carvanha - 15.9 (22)
Snubbull - 15.9 (14)
Croagunk - 16.2 (21)
Staryu - 16.3 (26)
Tirtouga - 16.3 (7)
Bunnelby - 17 (1)
Trapinch - 17 (1)
Archen - 17.1 (18)
Aipom - 17.1 (10)
Corphish - 17.2 (18)
Slowpoke - 17.5 (2)
Ferroseed - 17.8 (13)
Scraggy - 17.8 (11)
Hippopotas - 18 (1)
Larvesta - 19 (3)
Torchic - 19 (3)
Meowth - 19 (1)
Skrelp - 19.8 (8)
Onix - 19.9 (8)
Houndour - 20 (1)
Treecko - 20 (1)
Cranidos - 20 (1)
Trubbish - 20 (1)
Honedge - 20 (1)
Pumpkaboo - 23 (3)
Pancham - 23 (1)

In comparison, here are the results from the last couple of times I did this:

Results for 2015
Results for 2014

Thoughts?
 
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Mambot
1. Pawniard
2. Abra
3. Snubbull
4. Archen
5. Ferroseed
6. Mienfoo
7. Porygon
8. Foongus
9. Fletchling
10. Diglett
11. Gothita
12. Shellder
13. Aipom
14. Chinchou
15. Drilbur
16. Spritzee
17. Croagunk
18. Timburr
19. Snivy
20. Vullaby
Was this supposed to be Mambo?
 
Hi there! As many of you know, for the past few weeks, I have been asking people for their lists of top 20 Pokemon; the results are compiled below in a few different ways. This isn't anything official, but I thought it would be interesting to see how we look at the metagame. This time, we have a total of 51 Pokemon over 41 respondents. As always, don't be mean about someone's list - I only asked people who I felt have a good grasp of the LC metagame.

In comparison, here are the results from the last couple of times I did this:

Results for 2015
Results for 2014

Thoughts?
Very nice work here!

The list with number of inclusions for each mon did certainly produce an expected result. Which in my eyes shows that the people asked does indeed have a good grasp of the LC metagame and that the viability rating page is nicely updated.
 

Rowan

The professor?
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Just gonna pop in with a cheesy post here.

So gen 6 is coming to an end, and it just got me thinking about how far LC has come this generation as a community. Since the end of BW, LC has improved so much in terms of community, player skill etc. The last 2 open winners were Kingler12345 (who basically turned into an LC main during the tournament and is the rightful winner of GS IV), and Corporal Levi, someone who has been active as fuck in the LC community this gen. We have LC players doing well in other tours, Vileman winning the NU open, TUO winning a major doubles tour, Tricking (idk if LC is his main, but he is certainly active within the community) doing well in loads of tier tours, and now fighting for a place in ST22 playoffs, ZoroarkForever currently fighting for a place in ST22 playoffs, Star. making a name for himself outside of LC, and probably more I forgot.
Looking back to last generation, the only LC player who was able to compete with the best in other tiers was blarajan. This is really down to the playerbase as a whole improving though - last generation the 'core group' of LC players was a lot smaller, so we were often just fighting the same people all the time. With a larger playerbase you have to improve even more to reach the top, because there is more competition. That's why OU players are always the best players because they have to be that good to do well in the larger tours. The skill level improving has almost completely stopped all the tier bashing we used to get, and now we're basically guaranteed a spot next SPL, without blarajan and Ray Jay having to write massive essays.

So yeah, props to everybody who contributed to Gen 6 LC the last 3 years, I still have a lot of fondness for this tier, and am happy to see how far it's come. :)
 

Conni

katharsis
StruggleCombo continuing from your post in the Reservation Index.

1) You can just U-turn out if needed and into a mon that resists rock type moves, such as ferro.
2) Flame Charge is just to counter the extremely common ferro.
3) Why on earth did someone give fletchling berry juice? Its simply to frail to survive anything it doesn't resist...
1) Fletch most likely can't outspeed its checks, unless it uses U-Turn in prediction, other than that it will be OHKOed since U-Turn doesn't get priority, so it's best to just switch
2) That's why we have Fire-type mons, Fletch needs recovery more than type coverage, although this isn't that bad of an idea, just uncommon.
3) Berry Juice is a replacement for Roost if you plan on Sub + SD, as this set is more of a setup sweeper variant, and it needs sub to set up safely while Roost can be easily substituted by Berry Juice, although its one time only, Fletch would already have setup at least +2 Atk and can sweep.

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask :)
 
- With Focus Sash and Flame Charge it automatically gets either a x1.5 speed or x2 attack and then can proceed to sweep, while providing a direct counter to the extremely common ferroseed...

- Also, if you tried to set up a sub and they didn't set up, your sub would no longer exist, you would be left with less hp than before, and infiltrator users such as noibat can easily beat it even with the sub up.

- Also, if they don't end up activating berry juice your acro isn't nearly as powerful, but if you use 0 IVs in Hp, Def, and SpDef w/ a sash it auto knocks you down to a focus sash, assuming they attack (which everyone does) you get +1 Priority 110 BP Acrobatics. Or, if you have to you can easily U-turn out and save it for a late game janitor / wallbreaker (because the acro boost)

-Now, if some of you realize that sash outclasses it and want to change the smogon set for it, I would be happy to do it (or you can do it of course).
 
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Fiend

someguy
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LC Leader
Here's the thing: with a Focus Sash you need to be hit down to 1 HP for it to be broken and Acrobatic to be its most powerful. There are several issues with that, such as weak attacks not potentially OHKOing and Stealth Rock damage. Stealth Rocks are the largest way of rendering your set useless, and these are extremely common at higher levels of playing.

Not to mention Ferroseed, while not extremely common, has Iron Barbs making Focus Sash useless against it. Flame Charge SD Fletchling is also notably weaker than Overheat Fletchling, making it struggle against Pawniard or BJ Magnemite (or Ferrsoseed). No one really uses Infiltrator Pokemon either, instead you might have an issue with the rare sound moves, but these are indeed rare so that's almost entirely ignorable.

Not to mention with a Focus Sash it is weaker in general making it a rather bad revenge killer, removing one of its best uses. Itemless Fletchling is a lot better than BJ (or Sash) in general, though it may struggle setting up on occasion.

We will not be changing the Fletchling set, as itemless has the sweeping potential, strong revenge killing capabilities, and several decent ways of luring in and breaking Flying-resists.
 
1) I'm not talking about the itemless set, i'm talking about the berry juice set...
2) SR can easily be removed by spinners such as drilbur and squirtle which can easily take out onix or other flying reists...
3) How is Focus Sash weaker? If you use Minimal Hp, Def, and SpDef IVs it is guaranteed to put you down to the sash and you get either a flame charge boost or a SD boost, which enables you to sweep better than itemless or berry juice
 
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Merritt

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1) I'm not talking about the itemless set, i'm talking about the berry juice set...
2) SR can easily be removed by spinners such as drilbur and squirtle which can easily take out onix or other flying reists...
3) How is Focus Sash weaker? If you use Minimal Hp, Def, and SpDef IVs it is guaranteed to put you down to the sash and you get either a flame charge boost or a SD boost, which enables you to sweep better than itemless or berry juice
1) Berry Juice allows Fletchling to set up an SD on multiple pokemon due to it's not horrific bulk and heal, while also allowing Fletchling to switch into attacks, actually be used even if Stealth Rock is up, and not have to be at 1 HP in order to have a flying-type attack that's stronger than Aerial Ace when directly compared to a Focus Sash set.

2) While Stealth Rock can be removed, it means that as long as rocks are up on your side of the field you cannot use Fletchling until you remove them, meaning that you have to have a second check to a huge number of pokemon. In addition, if you lose your hazard remover, are you just willing to accept that Fletchling is going to be nearly useless for the rest of the game? Also, Squirtle is not viable.

3) 0 SpA Foongus Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP IV / 0 SpD IV Fletchling: 15-18 (78.9 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 18)

Not everything will put you down to Sash. In addition, since Fletchling has such godawful bulk in this case, it will be almost completely unable to get both a Flame Charge boost and an SD boost due to being 2HKOed by virtually everything that isn't not very effective.

Regardless, this is fairly easy to solve. Can you provide us with more than one good replay that showcases Sash Fletchling in battles where BJ or Itemless Fletchling would not have been advantageous? That would certainly provide a better foundation for its effectiveness than theorymon.
 

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