That is true, but bar this issue, could it be a viable sweeper now?
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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread!
- Thread starter Rowan
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I don't necessarily know how viable it is, but I do know that I'm going to have loads of fun with SturdyJuice Tyrunt.
I'm not sure if the resistances dragon brings is really enough for Tyrunt to have a significant niche over Tirtouga as a Sturdyjuice sweeper, since Sturdyjuice would probably account for defensive concerns in most scenarios. After a Shell Smash, Tirtouga is both faster and more powerful; Tyrunt's superior coverage isn't all that notable without Strong Jaw. On top of this, Tirtouga has access to priority, which could be useful in certain situations. From what I can see, Tyrunt's only notable advantages as a Sturdyjuice sweeper would be higher initial speed and the ability to beat Croagunk if healthy, but I don't think either of these would be enough to warrant Tyrunt over Tirtouga.
Someone correct me if I'm missing out.
Someone correct me if I'm missing out.
I mean Sturdy is great but most Pokemon can't OHKO Tryunt outright anyway.....Berry Juice works well enough on its own and otherwise it's usually getting Knocked Off before KOed from Mienfoo/Pawniard.
And it doesn't have a 1 turn +2 Attack +2 Speed button....as far as I know. It would also lose Strong Jaw though Earthquake/Stone Edge/Brick Break would be good enough coverage.
And it doesn't have a 1 turn +2 Attack +2 Speed button....as far as I know. It would also lose Strong Jaw though Earthquake/Stone Edge/Brick Break would be good enough coverage.
Usage stats are up btw - I'm using the 1760 stats (top of the ladder) for this.
http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-04/lc-1760.0.txt - the 1760 Stats
most notable things: Fletchling moved up to #3 from #9, obviously it's the best bird since Murkrow went
Misdreavus and Pawniard are seen on 50% of teams at the top of the ladder - literally everywhere
Spritzee has gone down from #9 to #16 and Cottonee has moved up from #33 to #17 - Their combined usage has stayed almost the same, so obviously people are realising the advantages of Cottonee as a supporting Fairy-type now. Maybe this is also due to Murkrow leaving, since Spritzee hasn't got the advantage of checking an extra mon - or maybe it's because people are realising Spritzee isn't all that it's hyped up to be.
Abra is now #15 in the 1760 stats - finally moving to a position that suits it (in the non-rated stats it still sits at #4 however)
Diglett has gone up from 35 to 18 - not surprising with the amount of hype it's getting around the FletchDig core
Doduo has gone up from #106 to #32 - that's almost 10x more usage. Probably will continue to rise next month as Murkrow is still in April's stats.
Trubbish has gone down from #22 to #31 - not sure of the reason. Maybe it's Diglett+Drilbur being more popular? Maybe it's Misdreavus being on 50% of teams?
Wynaut has moved up from #37 to #24 - no idea why since Tite got banned.
Slowpoke has moved from #27 to #46 - Obviously cos of Tite - bordering on LCUU
Purrloin has gone down from #43 to #109 - no swag
I was using the suspect test stats for comparison btw: http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-03/lcsuspecttest-1760.0.txt
Obviously these aren't as accurate as we'd like since Murkrow and Meditite are still in the top 10 in April's stats, but they do indicate some early shifts in metagame trends. It'll be interesting to see May's stats as Krow and Tite won't influence them at all
Of course, thanks to Antar for always providing us with these stats
http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-04/lc-1760.0.txt - the 1760 Stats
most notable things: Fletchling moved up to #3 from #9, obviously it's the best bird since Murkrow went
Misdreavus and Pawniard are seen on 50% of teams at the top of the ladder - literally everywhere
Spritzee has gone down from #9 to #16 and Cottonee has moved up from #33 to #17 - Their combined usage has stayed almost the same, so obviously people are realising the advantages of Cottonee as a supporting Fairy-type now. Maybe this is also due to Murkrow leaving, since Spritzee hasn't got the advantage of checking an extra mon - or maybe it's because people are realising Spritzee isn't all that it's hyped up to be.
Abra is now #15 in the 1760 stats - finally moving to a position that suits it (in the non-rated stats it still sits at #4 however)
Diglett has gone up from 35 to 18 - not surprising with the amount of hype it's getting around the FletchDig core
Doduo has gone up from #106 to #32 - that's almost 10x more usage. Probably will continue to rise next month as Murkrow is still in April's stats.
Trubbish has gone down from #22 to #31 - not sure of the reason. Maybe it's Diglett+Drilbur being more popular? Maybe it's Misdreavus being on 50% of teams?
Wynaut has moved up from #37 to #24 - no idea why since Tite got banned.
Slowpoke has moved from #27 to #46 - Obviously cos of Tite - bordering on LCUU
Purrloin has gone down from #43 to #109 - no swag
I was using the suspect test stats for comparison btw: http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-03/lcsuspecttest-1760.0.txt
Obviously these aren't as accurate as we'd like since Murkrow and Meditite are still in the top 10 in April's stats, but they do indicate some early shifts in metagame trends. It'll be interesting to see May's stats as Krow and Tite won't influence them at all
Of course, thanks to Antar for always providing us with these stats
Honestly, I really enjoy this metagame. I have seen some pretty unique and interesting sets being born, from HP Fight Doduo, to Solid Rock SS Tirt. Pretty much any form of playstyle can be viable now. I have friends who have lately been running stall, such as ZoroarkForever, and have been doing extremely well with it. Eo Stall has proven effective in current thus far ( I Believe lol). The only style I think is kinda dead is Dwebble hazard stacking, but even then pokemon such as Bunnelby or Fletchling can abuse the shit out of hazards.
why was there chaos after the French Revolution?
I think a lot of people avoided krow on principle because it was OP. Also, people seem to have less checks on their teams for bird offense now krow is banned. Lastly, fletchdig is now a common core, while last meta I think less people used it
I think Murkow + Fletchling could be used without Diglett very effectively and only took up 2 slots on the team, whereas Diglett sort of replaces Murkrow but needs more team support so bird spam is now its own specific style etc.
Also BP Torchic is one of the worst Pokemon in the metagame against someone who's not dumb.
Also BP Torchic is one of the worst Pokemon in the metagame against someone who's not dumb.
absdaddy
Banned deucer.
i think someone once said that leading with bp torch is dumb af, also - how often do you see phazers/hazers now? nothing but taunt can really stop proper torchpass, and at least you could back up your argument. leave that damn ladder and play someone competent outside league pls
It's self-explanatory, it doesn't work because Torchic is frail and weak. You can either set up Fletchling (qq speed boost) or just plain OHKO it. It can't BP anything besides Speed (or one SD/Curse if you play it well) and it's usually not that difficult to handle something that has to take the hit from the switch-in anyway since it can't even slow BP like Mienfoo.
You don't get to say I don't play anyone competent while trying to tell me that BP Torchic is good -_-. Well I guess you do but credibility is the cost.
You don't get to say I don't play anyone competent while trying to tell me that BP Torchic is good -_-. Well I guess you do but credibility is the cost.
i won over i think like 25-30 games in a row with BP torchic while playing against only decent people on the ladder, 6-0'd multiple prominent members of the community, and ive personally lost to it a couple of times so i guess whole community is completely incompetent and dumb
its by no means top tier, and a well constructed team should be able to deal with it, but torchic isnt always about pulling 6-0 or 5-0 sweeps, torchic applies a lot of pressure to the opposing player and it's also great for end game cleanups and you can also use it as a pivot and you can get multiple passes per game
if youre saying i lack credibility... ehhh...
yes i still play on alts
its by no means top tier, and a well constructed team should be able to deal with it, but torchic isnt always about pulling 6-0 or 5-0 sweeps, torchic applies a lot of pressure to the opposing player and it's also great for end game cleanups and you can also use it as a pivot and you can get multiple passes per game
if youre saying i lack credibility... ehhh...
yes i still play on alts
My point was that BP Torchic chains don't usually work against good players (even when used by "good" players) so if all he has to say is "Torchic is new metagame king" with only his credibility to back it up then, yes, the credibility of said user would be in question because of that. And of course, suggesting that the other user (who quite publicly doesn't just play "that dumb ladder") somehow has less.
And don't take the extreme of what I'm saying; of course there will be exceptions and there are potentially ways to outplay opponents with BP Torchic but it's hard to deny that anyone with half of a brain and a Fletchling can just destroy it. I don't know where we got the idea that only phazers beat Torchic either.
And don't take the extreme of what I'm saying; of course there will be exceptions and there are potentially ways to outplay opponents with BP Torchic but it's hard to deny that anyone with half of a brain and a Fletchling can just destroy it. I don't know where we got the idea that only phazers beat Torchic either.
I've been running some cool Torchic teams. TBH it's not really that hard to run a reciever that resists Flying. It used to be good to have something that resists Sucker Punch but Sucker Punch has been used less and less on Pawniard (Scarf is so common I feel like I'm bluffing scarf when I go evio/BJ Pawn) Torchic's common pass recipients are stuff like Cubone, Timburr, or Scraggy but you can just decide to run other passers such as Shellder, BJ Archen, Quick Attack Bunnelby, Cranidos, the list goes on. I know some of these mons are actually p frail to take a Acrobatics from Fletch but at least they have their options against it. It's almost the same logic as people saying if there's a fletchling on the opposiing team it instantly wins against typical Chlorophyll teams. If Sun teams have issues with Fletchling then run Fletching checks on sun teams, same logic as if BP teams are weak to fletch run fletch checks on BP teams.
Torchic can't pass anything substantial while Fletchling is opposing it. Like Heysup said, Fletchling can get to +2 while it protects or it can go for Acrobatics and sack the QB.
While Torchic isn't as good as abs is hyping it to be, fletch isn't really a good answer when torchic can ohko 15 speed with Fire Blast when SR is up. nobody is going to be dumb and use Protect on fletchling, theyre going to attack that little bastard because it wants to set up and sweep.
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