Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread!

[Heysup]

0 SpA Torchic Fire Blast vs. 156 HP / 60 SpD Fletchling: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I'd still use Swords Dance especially if Stealth Rock isn't down. And Fire Blast isn't even super common.

EDIT: didn't know what you meant by 15 speed. Speed on Fletchling is very old I didn't think people still used it. Bulk is almost always better to take +2 Dazzling Gleams, Knock Offs, Drain Punches, Roosting Volt Switches, and, I guess, surviving Fire Blast.

 

[boo836]

ohko 15 speed.

People still run 156/60? 15 Spe is easily the best set, and what I constantly run into.

 

[Imagine_Greater]

I would say that berry juice wynaut is an amazing mon right now, its ability to kill two Mons because of its ability to take hits and retaliate with counter/mirror coat is amazing and couple that with the fact that encore can bring many setup oppurtunities, you have a great pokemon.

 

[mad0ka]

Bird offense is incredibly overhyped this meta. With new mons like archen and magnemite being extremely viable now, they're incredibly easy to deal with. Something I've been running with really great success is endure magnemite. It allows you to scout for apicot berry / overheat fletch and helps activate BJ in clutch situations.

Also no to BJ wynaut. I mean while it can knock out some mons, others can set up on it or just avoid using attacking moves.

 

[Imagine_Greater]

Just Encore the setup move and/or the status.

 

[Fiend]

Just Encore the setup move and/or the status.

But anything faster than Wynaut can avoid the encore after setting up once, unless you predict their set up. This wouldn't be a problem if Wynaut hit 16 without investment, but alas it does not. Anything base 25 outspeeds it naturally leaving, what? 19 pokemon which are slower? 92% of the tier outspeeds Wynaut, great. Setting up once is a real possibility and a free Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, or Dragon Dance can be quite game changing. But the lack of speed is good for encoring status, I will give it that. But unless you have a poison type or fire type to switch in on the Toxic or Will-o-wisp respectively, you accomplish nothing.

But okay, Wynaut's main draw is its ability: Shadow Tag, making it a decent trapper. It has the bulk to live a hit, restore the lost HP with Berry Juice, then use Counter/Mirror Coat in retaliation to KO. However, it cannot switch in on attacks as often as one would hope; Volt-turn suppresses Wynaut's usefulness even further as it makes null and void of its single potent draw. Its typing is also garbage, psychic is in the bottom three types in LC and the raise of Knock Off only makes it worse. Wynaut is also prediction heavy, leaving mind games, bad plays, and experience alike to decide if Wynaut will do anything that match. Even as a revenge killer, it would be largely outclassed to Carvahna, Abra to an extent, Fletchling, and if you want scarfed mons, then Sratly and Pawn do as well. Overall, Wynaut is basically a joke and a gimmick.

EDIT: With XY, Ghost types cannot be trapped, making this unable to revenge kill Misdreavus, the most common pokemon in the current meta.

 

[Wobbyble]

Wynaut should be paired with a lot of Volturn, which makes it the most effective. I personally opt for 9-11 speed on Wynaut in order to outpace things like Foongus, Porygon, Timburr etc. Safeguard + Encore lets you troll a lot of walls, and lets you pivot out to something else to set up on. It lost a lot of power with Meditite's ban, but with its ability and movepool it'll always be viable.

It's not top tier or anything but if you say it's a joke and a gimmick you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

 

[Fiend]

It's not top tier or anything but if you say it's a joke and a gimmick you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

I still stand by what I said; it mostly is a joke and is still a gimmick. Wobbuffet is referred to as a gimmick and Wynaut does the same thing, just with less success. But maybe I am using it wrong, I have be one to do so with many pokemon. But yes, it can a viable pokemon and has some merit. I just personally think that it generally should not be run on most teams in this meta; 5 generation is a different matter.

 

[Imagine_Greater]

I still stand by what I said; it mostly is a joke and is still a gimmick. Wobbuffet is referred to as a gimmick and Wynaut does the same thing, just with less success. But maybe I am using it wrong, I have be one to do so with many pokemon. But yes, it can a viable pokemon and has some merit. I just personally think that it generally should not be run on most teams in this meta; 5 generation is a different matter.

I was really basing my opinion on personal experiences, should custap get released it will be better than berry juice.
But to say its a gimmick and joke is not something to say about a mon banned to ubers (for whatever reason) 2 gens back.

 

[Aaron's Aron]

But to say its a gimmick and joke is not something to say about a mon banned to ubers (for whatever reason) 2 gens back.

This doesn't really contribute to the chat, but I thought I would let you know why Wobbuffet was banned a few generations back sine you don't seem to know. It was banned because if two Wobbuffets switched into each other the game would become endless. If I remember correctly, at that point Struggle did recoil damage based on the damage dealt, not a fixed 25%. The Wobbuffets couldn't do much damage to each other and therefore took little recoil. With Leftovers they would recover the health back, therefore out-healing the Struggles, causing endless games. They could not switch out and break the loop because of Shadow Tag as well.

 

[Imagine_Greater]

Huh, and here I thought it was banned because of encore plus shadow tag. Thanks for telling me.

 

[Aaron's Aron]

Huh, and here I thought it was banned because of encore plus shadow tag. Thanks for telling me.

Haha nah. Wobbufett wasn't that OP. You're welcome though, I'm glad you understand now :)

 

[GlassGlaceon]

Ok, this might be just me. Earlier this year, i questioned why some dragons were placed on the viability list.

This is something that has actually worked for me outstandingly, but LC DragMag isn't half-bad.

Due to the amount of dragon resists people usually run on teams these days (either one or zer0, being most commonly pawniard and spritzee, and maybe ferroseed)

once these mons are removed, dragons have the potential to either a. sweep or b. rip open enough holes in a team to where a fletchling, a smasher, or other random setup mons can sweep easily
Anyone else had good experiences w/ dragons atm, cuz i think they're pretty viable and cool

 

[Lord Alphose]

I'm gonna agree with what GlassGlaceon said. I started running a team built around Axew, intending to screw around in tourneys and such, but it ain't bad. I just have a Croagunk to take out Fairies and a Scraggy to take out Steels. It's worked surprisingly well.

However, there are few dragons that are that threatening. Which is a shame.

 

[Fiend]

I started to run an Axew today, but it never got to do anything besides get KOed or very rarely revenge kill. It got maybe 2 kills by itself and 3 revenge kills over the course of 10 games. However, it did make a good member to fodder or often hit something for adequate damage which allowed a form of priority to kill after Axew went down. However, Axew could never do something to major as every opponent either had multiple counters/checks, was running a HO team, had Fletching to revenge (not really surprised as this is everywhere), or simply did not have anything for Axew to damage. Though I would give it another go with different set, choice scarf seems promising, Axew just didn't make the cut often costing me games.

 

[Heysup]

In terms of Dragons, I think the Spritzee/Tyrunt (+like Chinchou, Munchlax, or like Ferroseed) core is very underrated as a balance/stall core, especially for the physical side. Wish support makes Tyrunt a rather endless Fletchling check and it really punishes switch-ins via Dragon Tail + hazards.

 

[Brosb4Ho-ohs]

I think Missy is broken.

 

[OP]

I think Missy is broken.

Could you please explain why? Do you think it's simply because of its BST being high? Maybe the ability to get past its checks? Don't just post a simple opinion, expand upon it please.

 

[Brosb4Ho-ohs]

Its just very fast and has good bulk and offensive and defensive moves. At plus 2 special attack, which is easy to obtain it can virtually punch holes in the opposition pretty easily.

 

[The Avalanches]

Its just very fast and has good bulk and offensive and defensive moves. At plus 2 special attack, which is easy to obtain it can virtually punch holes in the opposition pretty easily.

Just slap a scarf on this guy.

 

[Lord Alphose]

Though blunt and unintelligent-sounding, yes, "just slap a scarf on this guy." Missy dead.

 

[The Avalanches]

It's early morning and my cognitive functions are limited to pictures and short sentences, but yes, Missy is hardly broken. Choice Scarf Pawniard and Pawniard with Sucker Punch are reliable ways to check Misdreavus.

 

[Kappaten]

And that's only one offensive check to Misdreavus; there's also Carvanha for another offensive check, not to mention there are defensive checks like Munchlax and Porygon (hell, even Stunky if you want to get obscure).

 

[Brosb4Ho-ohs]

No, Pawniard is mindgames as some run scarf or eviolite, so its pretty underimined. Porygon cant KO with shadow and dies to plus 2 HP fight. Munchlax just sits there and lets it set up. Ans stunky is not even a viable option. And against Carvanha is also mindgames because missy will outspeed and Kill with dazzling gleam. So if the guys with the fish protects and you use sub you beat the carvanha. But if he predicts the sub, and uses crunch he beats you. I have nothing to elaborate on. Yes, missy has very good stats every one which it abuses, Yes, missy can potentially beat all of its checks, and yes missy is broken.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

No, Pawniard is mindgames as some run scarf or eviolite, so its pretty underimined. Porygon cant KO with shadow and dies to plus 2 HP fight. Munchlax just sits there and lets it set up. Ans stunky is not even a viable option.

+2 236 SpA Life Orb Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 236 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 18-23 (69.2 - 88.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock